Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Greebo on August 08, 2009, 02:33:26 PM
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Lyric1 kindly sent me some photos he found showing this colourful 9th AF P-47D-28-RA from the 365th FS. The pilot was called Orin A. Wahl and the aircraft was named "Helen Jo" on the right hand cowling. I've skinned it as a P-47D-40 as that looks closest.
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots1/365th_FS_P-47D_SC1.jpg)
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/photos/365th_P-47D.jpg)
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I honestly Cant tell a difference in the pictures. :aok
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Gorgeous. :aok
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Awesome once again Greebo! :aok
Just, one thing came to mind. Should the antiglare running on top of the fuselage be a bit thinner overall? In the photo it ends just a hair before the front of the canopy. On the back of the fuselage there seems to be a healthy gap between the national insignia and the antiglare, on the skin they touch. Also, because it's thinner it doesn't seem to run as far back of the fuselage as in the skin.
Small stuff anyway...
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I'd hit it
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Real nice Greebo :aok
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I honestly Cant tell a difference in the pictures. :aok
The top one is from Aces High the bottom one is from real life.
:P
Great job as usual Greebo. :x
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Eh I have seen better.. in real life.. :aok
Love the way you do Aluminum.
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:D
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:D
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Looks great it turned out well Greebo. Stupid computer didn't think it was working right sorry about the triple post.
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We get it lyric, it looks great and turned out well... :D
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First, great skin! Second, do we really want to skin a D-28 on a D-40? About the only thing they would have in common would be the tail fillet (field mod'd on the D-28). Performance-wise, the D-28 would behave almost exactly like the D-25. Ultimately, another great addition to the Jug line-up.
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Not to nit pick but....
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9857/365thp47d.jpg) (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/365thp47d.jpg/)
the top of the tail section doesn't look silver/ the same colour to me as the rest of the fuselage, it looks more like the colour of the nose cowling. Reasons?
TT
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Not to nit pick but....
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9857/365thp47d.jpg) (http://img15.imageshack.us/i/365thp47d.jpg/)
the top of the tail section doesn't look silver/ the same colour to me as the rest of the fuselage, it looks more like the colour of the nose cowling. Reasons?
TT
Easy explanation the sun has flared out the metal skin giving it a white look but it is silver bare metal as with the nose art the pin up girl looks to be gone but she is there as you can see in this picture as well as the bare area where a fin may be or not.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/f25a5156e1.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
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First, great skin! Second, do we really want to skin a D-28 on a D-40? About the only thing they would have in common would be the tail fillet (field mod'd on the D-28). Performance-wise, the D-28 would behave almost exactly like the D-25. Ultimately, another great addition to the Jug line-up.
I think we already have a precedent with Tar Heel Hal also a 358TH F/G bird.
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
It's possible the anti spin fillet was painted white, but I think its more likely it was just newer and shinier aluminium. I will add a brightening layer to that section to lighten it up a bit.
The anti glare panel does extend too far down the fuselage. However if I raise it the edge becomes fuzzy in places as it gets into the stretched area of the skin near the top of the fuselage. I'll have a look to see if its possible to tidy it up a bit though.
The top edge of the USAAF markings on the fuselage has been stretched vertically by the barrel distortion effect on this skin. If I reduce the the height of the top 20% of the circle by 30% or so it should look better and also restore the gap between the circle and the anti glare panel.
I thought there was a convention that all Ds with fillets were skinned as D-40s, can't remember where I got that from though.
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I think the cowling is sporting a band of white. There is no glare and it is consistent with the white star and bar on the fuselage.
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I agree with TwinTail. I think the fillet is white like the cowling, looking at the picture. Its definitely a different color than the bare aluminum below it.
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I think the cowling is sporting a band of white. There is no glare and it is consistent with the white star and bar on the fuselage.
The glare has washed out the girl in the swim suit & the cowling is not a solid white colour. If you look closely at the white cowling you can see the back and her rear end of the swim suit it is blue in Colour the rest is washed out.
The shape that is visible in the colour photo matches perfectly with the black & white pictures of the same portion of the swim suit. Also there is a cover of a book granted it is a painting but I think you can agree it is bare metal & not white.
Plus I have many photos of the 358TH fighter group & several books on this unit & none have a white coloured fin so if it is white it would be the exception to all of the three squadrons within the 358TH F/G. For example the last photo same fighter group & a similar style of paint job for the rear tail section.
Most are not done in this style it is bare metal although it looks as if the fin is white looking and in both colour pictures the sun is directly over head based off the shadows so the glare is directly on top of the fins. Plus I have just talked to this fellow http://www.p47pilots.com/P47-Pilots.cfm?c=incP47BiographyHome.cfm&vm=BIO&pilotid=80&p=Joseph%20P.%20Celauro who flew with the 365TH F/S & is familiar with this aircraft he has no recollection of it having a white fin.
I think Stoneys point of the fins added as a field modification from erlier in this thread lends credence to Greebo's point of it having a shinier finish compared to the rest of the aircraft.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/940dd99217.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7ba0ae0300.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/74ad0a7e04.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/63d6c759ff.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/0ef7d17e39.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/3281df4ba8.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/b6f5805d8e.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
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Lyric, can't really see the fin fillet in that pic you posted. If you look closely at the pic twintail posted, you can see the white extends down, and there's a sliver of it between the yellow and the silver. Definitely a solid demarcation line on this one.
I think he may be right!
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Lyric, can't really see the fin fillet in that pic you posted. If you look closely at the pic twintail posted, you can see the white extends down, and there's a sliver of it between the yellow and the silver. Definitely a solid demarcation line on this one.
I think he may be right!
I disagree for example if you look at the last colour photo of the 367TH bird the sun is directly over head & yet the horizontal surfaces of the tail look white? Yet I know for a fact that it is completely orange. Also speaking to a former pilot of that unit & is familiar with that particular aircraft & others painted like it & yet he can't ever remember any being painted white on that portion of the aircraft.
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I do agree that old photos "wash out" when over exposed like that. However, simply over-exposing 2 separate shades can make them both become the same color on film (aka white here).
You can't necessarily rule out a color's existence when this happens.
To better see the colors you need to lower the exposure, something you can't do after-the-fact. Looking at the pic twin-tail posted, the photo exposure is much more limited, and you can see on the side of the tail there are 2 colors at work.
Here's something to show what I'm seeing:
(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/whitetail.jpg)
It is possible this is also "washout" but unlikely as I see it because the color is constant (on the photo, specifically, not the airplane) around the curve of the tail up to and including the fillet. If it were only washout, it would dim and fade as the angle of the tail's curved surface bounced light in other directions, but it stays steady.
That's why I say it looks like there's white at play, and not just over-exposed film.
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I agree with two colours at work & I clearly see the demarcation line as you describe from the prior post. How ever I think the differant colour is due to the fin being a newer bit of metal that is riveted into the tail section. I don't have access at the moment to other pictures but i think the entire white section as you would call it is of the fin & where it joins the tail & the spine of the plane as a single piece of metal & it is has a distinct panel line.
I don't think the white little bits heading down the fuselage are correct I think that may be a lighting issue or a shadow. I could not imagine some one painting in that little bit like that & as I said before it would be unique to all 358TH birds that I have seen.
Would you agree with me that the pin up is on the cowling in the colour photo? If so what happened to all the rest of her besides her arse & back. I would say it was washed out due to flaring while the photo was taken & some of those parts of her that are not visible are dark in colour but yet they appear white. So shiny metal in this case if washed out just might appear the same maybe?
For example the original colour photo what colour are the metal portions of the skin covering the landing gear? I would say white based off the photo again this would make it unique to all other 358TH birds I have seen. I would say no they are not white but bare metal again the photo has washed out portions of the plane & they appear some what differant than they are.
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So shiny metal in this case if washed out just might appear the same maybe?
New aluminum would produce glare, like the plexiglass bubble canopy does in the photo. That entire piece is a completely different color.
I'll caveat that by saying that we're probably not going to get any consensus here, other than Greebo's skin is an excellent representation of that photo, and another quality addition to his already considerable contribution to the P-47 skin library. :)
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Lyric, can't really see the fin fillet in that pic you posted. If you look closely at the pic twintail posted, you can see the white extends down, and there's a sliver of it between the yellow and the silver. Definitely a solid demarcation line on this one.
I think he may be right!
After further review I stand corrected on a few points.
#1.
Your right there is no fin in this photo so Stoney's point of a field modification is correct as we have two photos before & after fin. :aok
(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9832/3234e.th.jpg) (http://img188.imageshack.us/i/3234e.jpg/)
#2.
As you can see from the profile of panel lines there is a section that closely matches your white fin theory. :huh
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6656/0909.th.jpg) (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/0909.jpg/)
#3.
As you can see in this photo & profile it seems on some of the 358TH F/G planes they took the time to match the paint work around the tail & fin unlike the lazy 365TH F/S painters. :P
(http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/5746/5555k.th.jpg) (http://img44.imageshack.us/i/5555k.jpg/)
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/1854/898z.th.jpg) (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/898z.jpg/)
#4.
I also found a black & white photo of the plane in question it tends to lean to your white tail theory all though I am still not convinced of this premise at this point in time. :cool:
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1332/6767.th.jpg) (http://img18.imageshack.us/i/6767.jpg/)
#5.
Then how ever I found these series of pictures of 365TH F/S. :confused:
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/515/4545m.th.jpg) (http://img263.imageshack.us/i/4545m.jpg/)
(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/4452/989l.th.jpg) (http://img188.imageshack.us/i/989l.jpg/)
#6.
So in conclusion I have to say the fin on the aircraft in question :( is most likely :cry WHITE. As well as probably the panels over the landing gear. :o
#7.
I am still right about the nose art on the cowling though. :x
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OK, here is the revised version:
I've made the fin fillet white, as that seems to be fairly certain on the weight of evidence. I have also made the gear doors white, but I'm undecided if that's right or not. Maybe I'll change it back later.
The anti glare panel has been altered a bit, but if its placed even a pixel higher than this it starts blurring badly in places.
The top edge of the fuselage star has been reshaped to allow for barrel distortion effects.
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots1/365th_FS_P-47D_SC2.jpg)
(http://www.gfg06.dial.pipex.com/screenshots1/365th_FS_P-47D_SC3.jpg)
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Looks even better now. Also nice choice of colour for the Helen JO nose art was wondering what colour you would use.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/15c4bcce69.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)
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Sorry for late reply lyric, you asked a question. I do agree there is noseart on the cowl. I didn't think it was really under debate, myself :)
I'm not totally sold on the white gear doors, but it definitely looks brighter than the aluminum in several of the photos posted, so it DOES look white, but I don't know anything about this group's markings other than what I've seen in this thread. :salute
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I'm not totally sold on the white gear doors, but it definitely looks brighter than the aluminum in several of the photos posted, so it DOES look white, but I don't know anything about this group's markings other than what I've seen in this thread. :salute
The 358TH F/G were certainly a colourful lot between the three squadrons. When they got the bare metal skinned jugs they just went for broke once the CO decided to paint the tails orange. On the micro film of the unit I have in the later part of the war any paint lying around was fair game for any personal style they wanted to add.
Only restrictions were tails must be orange the nose cowling had to be red for they belonged to the 12TH tactical & each squadron had to paint the engine cowling of the squadrons designated colour.
The 365TH was white the 366TH was yellow & the 367TH was red.
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amazing work as always greebo :salute
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Absolutely masterful, Greebo! Looking forward to seeing Helen Jo in game...
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beautiful
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Awesome. I appreciate the attention to detail on the turbo exhaust shroud area, and the tail wheel doors.
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Will look forward to flying this bird when she is released!
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Top job Greebo, your best work yet! :aok
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Glad i could sorta help start the 2 page debate on white/aluminum, I think the white makes it stand out nicely and a great job as usual Greebo.
:salute
TT
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Glad i could sorta help start the 2 page debate on white/aluminum, I think the white makes it stand out nicely and a great job as usual Greebo.
:salute
TT
Yes it was a good pick up on your part. :aok This is best reason why to post skins prior to submitting some one else will catch something that every one else may miss.
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Thanks for the kind words guys and thanks again for the feedback.
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Damn, that looks good.
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Very nice SIR I know I'll be flying her when she makes it in the game. :salute