Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: brady on November 30, 2001, 07:24:00 PM
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Well?, Who thinks HTC should model aircraft that did not see combat in WW2?
How do you feal yes or no?
[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: brady ]
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I'd be more inclined to give current planes some fantasy loadouts. Like 12X.303 in nose for the P-38 :D
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Not just no, but HELL NO.
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No as well. I think there are too many planes in there already that didn't see much service.
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I have always been asking for F86s and Mig15s....... :rolleyes:
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After the planeset is filled out all the way back to 1939 I wouldn't mind seeing non-WWII planes modeled, so long as they could only be used in a separate arena. That should be about 5 years from now. :)
ra
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Obviously, I'm all for "pre-war" planesets. A dedicated SCW arena would rock. Planes don't have to be faster, higher and armed with boulder slinging cannons to be fun. Of course, if it's an "uber" mindset that appeals to the average player, then maybe promoting the SCW as an "Uber-WWI" arena would work. ;)
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I agree with ra.
-Chris-
BRING ON THE IL-10!
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Sure they should be modelled, but the perk system would mean they don't see much use, so they certainly shouldn't be a priority. But what's the difference when you have zeros fighting 109s, that never happened in WW2 either.
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I say yes, and WITHOUT the condition of modeling earlier planes first.
Add them as they're needed; if a P-51H or KIKKI or late 109K or some other "didn't quite make it" plane would be interesting, add it. I might not LIKE the individual choice, but its service record in WW2 doesn't mean squat to AH.
AH is NOT a WW2 sim, so whether a plane saw action in WW2 is completely and totally irrevelant.
Perhaps N1K2's should have random engine fires and gear failures, after all that happened during WW2 to the real N1K2. Or how about modeling LW planes so they randomly perform differently, as not all LW planes ran om the same fuel/boost system. And why are you allowed to fly whatever mission/plane you want? WW2 pilots had to fly where and what they were told!
J_A_B
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S!
No. Absolutely not.
Create a Korean war game if that's what you want.
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Exactly what Wells said!
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Well, this a game so I don't really care about the combat record. Anyway, I want bi-planes...
gripen
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Hi Brady,
finally, every aircraft that was conceived in or around the WW2 era should be modelled by Aces High. Not only should those that never saw combat should be included, but also those that never flew, and even those that were never built.
I'm going to leave the question unanswered, though, in which exact sequence they should be included.
The more interesting question I'll also leave unanswered is how game structure has to be developed for a hyper-complete planeset to provide interesting, challenging and balanced gameplay. My impression is that perk points won't quite cut it in the end.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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To the specific question in the subject line? YES. No reason why not at all.
Why? Because several planes (such as the DO335, P51H, Meteor, P80, P82, F7F, F8F, Tempest V, SeaFury, late mark Spitfires.. for several off the top of my head) were definately in mass production and deployed to combat units and on the line. Well before wars end in September of 1945.
Seems every time this question comes up the line always attempts to be drawn which tries stack the advantage based on ones personal tastes and preferences - with very, very few exceptions.
Simply because they did not see the enemy nor shot one down doesn't mean a thing except to those who prefer flying mainly Axis, or more specifically, LW aircraft. Because in 1945 it was impossible for a LW airplane of any type no to take to a hostile and combat sky be it a one off prototype, test model or even a low production plane which simply wasn't the case for the Allies at all.
OT a bit from the discussion but voting YES for late war aircrtaft is not a "sure" sign that anyone is anti-early war. Too often that accusation or inuendo can be seen in others posts as evidenced here and in other discussions on this in the past. Also, HTC isn't anti-early war either as they have stated many, many times in the past. It's fairly obvious to me that they simply started AH off with a late war theme (had to somewhere right?) and it just happens to be the time frame where most people like to pick thier planes when flying in an MA.
Westy
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
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No.
or Yes but wait until the next century.
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Well, thanks for trying to categorize us Westy, but you are very wrong as far as I am concerned. If I wanted to tip the scales in my favor, I'd say 'yes!', bring em on! That would give us the Ho229, the He162, the big Gotha flying wing, Me163, etc, etc. I don't want em because I could care less about how the P-51X would have performed against the Meteor MkXXVIDCD. The history of the battles and the planes and men who fought them is what interests me.
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Why? Because several planes (such as the DO335, P51H, Meteor, P80, P82, F7F, F8F, Tempest V, SeaFury, late mark Spitfires.. for several off the top of my head) were definately in mass production and deployed to combat units and on the line. Well before wars end in September of 1945.
Tempest V doesn't belong in that list. It was deployed and scored it's first victories in June 44. It went on to shoot down a couple of hundred enemy aircraft, hundreds of V-1s, and carried out thousands of ground attack missions.
Did you mean the Tempest II?
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Westy, FYI:
616 Sqn Meteors F. Mk. I flew CAP and fought the V-1 over Britain from July 1944. Remember that the Luftwaffe was still periodically sending aircraft (e.g. Ar 234) over Britain until April 1945. From January 1945 a Meteor F. Mk. III detachment from 616 Sqn was deployed to Belgium with the 2nd TAF, flying combat patrols, where they were joined in March by Meteors F. Mk. III of 504 Sqn. The Luftwaffe chose not to challenge the Meteors over the Reich, so they ended up doing ground attack missions against the remaining pockets of German resistance. So the Meteor was most definitely a WWII combat aircraft, albeit a rare one.
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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I stand corrected on the Meteor and the Tempest. I was refering to the 1945 versions that were substantially better performing than thier 1944 predecessors.
Raubvogel I'm not categorising anyone. I've just seen the same people or same personality types (those who align themselves with a specific nationality) consistantly draw the line at "seen combat."
As for the planes you mentioned? I'm all for the huge cargo plane. But the GO229 that only saw one, two at most, prototypes? Sure. If I can have the Northrop MX324/334 so there :p In reality the GO229 was a plane that was never in production and never deployed to front line units and wouldn't qualify under anyone's conditions for being a WWII combat aircraft be it "produced and deployed" or the more restrictive "saw combat".
The Allies also had more aircraft just as advanced and in development than the Germans and Japanes combined. Even mores for heavy, fast long range bombers. I wouldn't mind a DeHavilland Vampire jet myself, a P-80 or a P-82.
All of the aircraft I mentioned were in mass production and deployed.. I did miss including the HE-162 and that was an aircraft that is defacto a produced and deployed airplane in WWII. It just didn't come right to mind but by all means add it. I'd fly it too! I'm not "Allied." You'll never see me have a sigfile linking me with a nationality in any online game. And as for the ME-163 I think (hope) HiTech already has plans to bring it on in a special role :) Just a hunch on my part.
Westy
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Meteor F. Mk. III IS the better performing 1945 version. :)
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I think the AH should limit itself to World War 2 aircraft that saw at least some service. The reason is that there has to be a line drawn somewhere. If we can have all the late war jets, then why not Korean War jets. If Korean war jets, why not the F-4 Phantom, or the F-15 Eagle. There has to be a line somewhere. Personally, I think the game should stick with WW2 planes. I understand what people are saying when they say that the MA isnt a WW2 sim, but in a way it is. Maybe a more accurate way to put it would be a WW2 themed sim. There has to be some criteria about what, and what not to include in the game. I dont know for sure but I suspect that the majority in here would rather see mostly conventional prop planes from the WW2 era flying around in the MA, rather than a skyful of strange prototypes that never or barely saw service. I think the Me-163 has a role to play since it is such a limited use weapon. Given a few minutes of fuel and limited ammo load and lightly perked, the 163 could be a good defense against high flying bombers. Other than that, I would prefer to see no more late war planes at least until all the mainstays of WW2 are modelled. I would like to see a lot more earlier war planes especially since I love flying in the scenarios and for those we need the standbys that actually did most of the work in WW2. For the MA, I think that the so called "uber planes" from late war should be mildly perked (8 perks or so), and the bonus, or eny value, for using the earlier war planes upped as an incentive to fly them. Everybody is entitled to their opinion and that is mine.
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Westy,
The A7M2 Reppu "Sam" had enterend production, though only a few production models were completed befor we destroyed the factory. Would the Reppu be included in your category?
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Originally posted by Raubvogel:
Not just no, but HELL NO.
My sentiments exactly.
I would rather have HTC staff work on aircrafts that flew in WWII. Ju87 comes to mind... you get my point.
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Yes, and please model only those that were built in significant numbers. If there weren't at least 1000 of a particular type, it shouldn't be modeled. An example of a significant plane: P-47D-30RA.
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If there weren't at least 1000 of a particular type, it shouldn't be modeled.
Pardon me, but that is very silly.
It eliminates many, many interesting aircraft and forces the sim to only have the same aircraft that every other sim has.
Do you realize how many of the aircraft in AH fail to meet that requirement?
A6M5b Zero-Sen
Ar234B
C.205 Folgore
F4U-1C Corsair
Fw190D-9
Fw190F-8
Ki-67 Hiryu "Peggy" (comming in 1.09)
Lancaster MkIII with 50 cal tail turret
N1K2-J Shiden-Kai
Ostwind
Seafire MkIIc
Spitfire F.MkIX
Ta152H-1
Tempest MkV
All of these were produced in numbers less than 1000.
[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]
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In service, actual combat reports(not just test flight, one patrol duty stuff..).. that is about as lenient as I can get.
Anything going further is "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe".
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Late war variants, we have enough.
Please, mid/early war models, please.
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Perk those insignificant, low-run aircraft even if they did heat-up there guns. AH should focus on the planes that fought the war. :)
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Absolutely Karnak, if it was into actual production. Did it ever get deployed? Even the ones made?
Westy
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Yes for only the F8F Bearcat. <g>
No to all the reast. ;-)
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No.
WWII planes only.
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That and the Spanish Civil War. :D
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This is a sim based on planes. What is important is the planes. I would vote to "real" planes, that is, production planes (v1.00 :D ), as well as planes (betas) that actually saw service. So A7M2, with 1 production plane would fall in ;)
Greetings