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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BaldEagl on August 09, 2009, 12:50:33 AM

Title: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: BaldEagl on August 09, 2009, 12:50:33 AM
I was flying along a couple days ago in a fighter and the task group ack started firing.  I thought I'd fly through but no.  This stuff was so heavy it was like a black wall.  No one got the kill on me so it must have been auto puffy.

Tonight I was cruising along in a 109G-12 at 17K when the black wall 'o puffy appeared.  I turned away immediately with the first burst and hit WEP.  Oil leak.  Pilot wound.  Dead.  Three hits right in a row.  Again no killed by... auto puffy.

I guess HT doesn't want us flying over water anymore.  So what was the point in the pretty water then?

Do you guys (HTC) even test this stuff before releasing it?
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: gyrene81 on August 09, 2009, 02:45:55 AM
 :cry <---BaldEagl normally I would give you the benefit of the doubt but this thread is purely a whine.
Just from your wording...age range = 12 to 18.

Do you guys (HTC) even test this stuff before releasing it?
That's going to get you brownie points for sure.

Seems like a lot of people are managing to navigate through the arenas without moaning about the dreaded "wall of puffy ack"...  :uhoh
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: palef on August 09, 2009, 03:38:12 AM
It used to do that to me in the previous version.

Build a bridge, man.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: slimmer on August 09, 2009, 03:57:21 AM
I was flying along a couple days ago in a fighter and the task group ack started firing.  I thought I'd fly through but no.  This stuff was so heavy it was like a black wall.  No one got the kill on me so it must have been auto puffy.

Tonight I was cruising along in a 109G-12 at 17K when the black wall 'o puffy appeared.  I turned away immediately with the first burst and hit WEP.  Oil leak.  Pilot wound.  Dead.  Three hits right in a row.  Again no killed by... auto puffy.

I guess HT doesn't want us flying over water anymore.  So what was the point in the pretty water then?

Do you guys (HTC) even test this stuff before releasing it?
what is 109g 12  :uhoh
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: WMLute on August 09, 2009, 04:10:20 AM
He's got a point.

W/ the way the new auto puffy ack is you almost can't fly NEAR an nme cv w/o getting hit.

Needs toned down a touch imho.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on August 09, 2009, 04:30:36 AM
Maby HTC has looked at the numbers and is plum sick of having a single carrier taken out by one guy diving in a formation of Lancstukas only to bail out 3 seconds after the carrier go's arse up!?

MABY juuuust MABY!?


Com'on fellas, its a carrier task force, its not ment to be easy.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: WMLute on August 09, 2009, 07:21:55 AM
Maby HTC has looked at the numbers and is plum sick of having a single carrier taken out by one guy diving in a formation of Lancstukas only to bail out 3 seconds after the carrier go's arse up!?

MABY juuuust MABY!?


Com'on fellas, its a carrier task force, its not ment to be easy.

I'm talking about flying no where NEAR the nme CV but in ack range
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Bosco123 on August 09, 2009, 07:49:55 AM
I watched someone's puffy ack hit a freindly and take off a wing.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Dadsguns on August 09, 2009, 08:18:48 AM
He's got a point.

W/ the way the new auto puffy ack is you almost can't fly NEAR an nme cv w/o getting hit.

Needs toned down a touch imho.

Agree, I couldnt even see the cv I was so far away and it popped me little wings off.... 
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Strip on August 09, 2009, 08:24:23 AM
I think its all in your heads gents....

 :rofl

The with the timing change the puff ack sure sounds more impressive tho. In last weeks scenario we flew over two fleets within flak range. We were a pair of A6M2s and made it through ack with no damage. It sounded like a steady flak barrage with both of them shooting at us.

The release notes tend to indicate no change... 
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: beau32 on August 09, 2009, 08:34:46 AM
What do you expect the ack to do, sit there and escort you all the way to the carrier. I like the new ack and the way it works. I have been taken out several times, once even when not in carrier range. Its the way it is, and its the way it will probably stay. If you dont like it, dont go flying over water, take the long way around.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: RTHolmes on August 09, 2009, 08:35:45 AM
yeah the new ack is brutal, although I dont really think its any worse than before, it just seems like theres twice as much because the guns now fire individually rather than in pairs.

however...

as before Ive been blown out the sky at 15k several miles from the CV in fighters. I rarely fly bombers and never level bomb CVs but happened to see one last night and gave it a go. didnt hit it, but was amazed to fly straight and level at 8k5 220mph, taking all of the auto puffy without any damage. turned a couple miles out and went straight back over it, same alt and received just 1 hit which took out oil in 1 of my 12 engines.

puffy modelling definitely needs looking at.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: thndregg on August 09, 2009, 08:50:32 AM
Maby HTC has looked at the numbers and is plum sick of having a single carrier taken out by one guy diving in a formation of Lancstukas only to bail out 3 seconds after the carrier go's arse up!?

Not to brag, but one guy (me) can still take out a CV level bombing at 8K. It takes defensive fighter cover to stop me, or a damn good 5-inch gunner. I found the CV ack very refreshing and more realistic, and it was coming not from one, but two complete CV groups from Rookland on one sortie yesterday. Was a lot of fun!
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: B4Buster on August 09, 2009, 09:07:45 AM
New puffy barrage is way cool I think. It is real strong however.


Everytime I've gone near a CV for more than 2 minutes it has knocked me out. I remember one time when I was flying near a CV a few days ago. In the same salvo, one burst knocked off my wing, and another killed my pilot. I was pretty ticked  :mad:  :lol
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Chalenge on August 09, 2009, 09:12:55 AM
It pales in comparison to real ack but of course the ack is realistic in shooting friendlies down also. I just flew over rook fleet at 28k and took four hits in level bombers which never used to happen so its getting better but I still think bombers are favored over turning fighters.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Ciaphas on August 09, 2009, 09:24:46 AM
They might be trying to force people to drop below the puffy and run torpedoes from classic torpedo aircraft...
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: RTHolmes on August 09, 2009, 09:28:59 AM
its way more effective than rl ack was in many ways. rl ack wasnt radar tracked and locked for example, and only later in the war proxy fuses were used extensively. rl ack didnt randomly pick one aircraft out of 20 and keep tracking it with every gun available, ignoring everything else. rl ack would have used target selection based on threat, ie they would target inbound threats, not aircraft egressing or fighting at the edge of ack range when others are inbound.

reading combat reports there is a common theme about ack - it was a nightmare for buffs because it would be a wall of ack at roughly the alt buffs were inbound, all fighters had to do was climb a coupla thousand feet and they could go over it.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: usvi on August 09, 2009, 09:32:51 AM



Com'on fellas, its a carrier task force, its not ment to be easy.
(http://www.americainwwii.com/images/turkey-34.jpg)
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: BaldEagl on August 09, 2009, 10:24:44 AM
OK.  I admit that the last part of my OP was a little over the top but I was PO'd.  I also admit that the new ferocity of the puffy ack is cool, especially the sound, but it's far too deadly. 

The first time I was killed by it I didn't even know where the CV was.  The second time, as I said, I turned out with the first blast and hit WEP.  I couldn't even get away.  If it started when I got in range then why wasn't I able to get back out of range?

I have no problem flying around a CV if I need to and in both these cases I wasn't trying to get to the CV.  I didn't even know it was there.

For my part, I don't see flying along getting blown out of the air by puffy ack that you don't know is there and can't get away from once it starts as an enhancement to gameplay.

[EDIT]  Just need to add that other than being on the task force itself or flying low near a CV furball these are the only two time's I've flown over (or near) an enemy CV since the update and I'm 0 for 2 against the puffy.  The odds used to be more like 50-1.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: dmdchief on August 09, 2009, 11:21:33 AM
The only thing I think needs to be changed is it now can shoot through mountains so If it trains on you, you cant get away from it by flying around on the other side of a mountain, and when you get out of range if you dooooooo and you then come back it turns loose of who it is shooting at and trains on you again, even if others are closer.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: OOZ662 on August 09, 2009, 11:29:56 AM
Puffy ack has ALWAYS been able to fire through terrain. It's "spawned" in a box that changes size depending on your current speed, distance from the gun, and current number of G's being pulled or pushed. (The same goes for standard ack, except that it does come from the gun as a bullet)

HT actually had a laugh about it at the convention Q&A in 2002.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Swatch on August 09, 2009, 11:39:19 AM
They might be trying to force people to drop below the puffy and run torpedoes from classic torpedo aircraft...

The only problem I see with this is the accuracy of the 5" guns.  Maybe I'm wrong, but since the 5" guns have an auto-fuse, the second the shell gets in the vicinity of the torpedo bomber (or other plane) it goes off.   This makes it near impossible to get a torpedo bomber in.  I doubt they were auto-fuse rounds in the AA guns of WWII.  Something tells me the gunners had to set that themselves.  If you made 5" gunners do that, then all of a sudden the torpedo bombers have a slim chance, but when the 5" can just pow-pow-pow-pow-pop the torpedo bombers as they come in, its kinda pointless.  My feeling is that auto ack is fine if you do away with the easy 5".  And trust me, I love defending CV's with the 5", so this isn't coming from somebody who usually fights AGAINST a CV, but instead somebody who spends much more time defending them.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: OOZ662 on August 09, 2009, 11:42:41 AM
Proximity-fused 5" rounds were mainstream on American ships by the end of the war and a decent amount of time before. Before then, yes, the time-to-detonation was a manual setting.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: TonyJoey on August 09, 2009, 11:49:40 AM
I think its all in your heads gents....

 :rofl

The with the timing change the puff ack sure sounds more impressive tho. In last weeks scenario we flew over two fleets within flak range. We were a pair of A6M2s and made it through ack with no damage. It sounded like a steady flak barrage with both of them shooting at us.

The release notes tend to indicate no change... 

The ack settings were all turned way down for the scenario. It's no-where near the same as MA, which is ridiculous. Was fighting an FM-2 atleast at the dar ring of the cv, and it popped me 1st barrage.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: OOZ662 on August 09, 2009, 11:52:24 AM
Yes, ack in the current Coral Sea scenario does 2% of the damage it would do in the MA when it hits you.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Dream Child on August 09, 2009, 02:57:40 PM
The only problem I see with this is the accuracy of the 5" guns.  Maybe I'm wrong, but since the 5" guns have an auto-fuse, the second the shell gets in the vicinity of the torpedo bomber (or other plane) it goes off.   This makes it near impossible to get a torpedo bomber in.  I doubt they were auto-fuse rounds in the AA guns of WWII.  Something tells me the gunners had to set that themselves.  If you made 5" gunners do that, then all of a sudden the torpedo bombers have a slim chance, but when the 5" can just pow-pow-pow-pow-pop the torpedo bombers as they come in, its kinda pointless.  My feeling is that auto ack is fine if you do away with the easy 5".  And trust me, I love defending CV's with the 5", so this isn't coming from somebody who usually fights AGAINST a CV, but instead somebody who spends much more time defending them.

WWII saw the USA make a thing called the "proximity fuse". http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq96-1.htm is a decent page to start looking for a historical perspective of this device.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Motherland on August 09, 2009, 03:01:41 PM
what is 109g 12  :uhoh
Two-seat trainer-

(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/bf109g12cs_1.jpg)
(http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/images/bf109g12fw_1.jpg)
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: SkyRock on August 09, 2009, 03:14:06 PM
I got hit by puffy, it apparently went through the mountain since I had ducked behind it to get clear.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: 5PointOh on August 09, 2009, 03:48:29 PM
Other than Skyrocks instance, I think the new flak is great.  Yes, I've been killed by it.  Yes its frustrating, but it looks very real to me.

(http://www.spitfirespares.com/SpitfireSpares.com/Website%20products%20Dave%20hanst/Flak.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zp0h1YAc0Co/SPb7Ez-vJ5I/AAAAAAAADLc/fvnsrm6YTFg/s400/B-24flak.jpg)
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: SWrokit on August 09, 2009, 03:53:08 PM
Twice last night 21K & 22K, not even looking for CV, CV auto ack killed me.  Unable to escape.  A little much IMO.

<S>
Rokit
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: smokey23 on August 09, 2009, 04:09:40 PM
The ack isnt accurate enough. cv's are to easily bombed anyway i say turn the ack up a notch and make it real hard to take out a cv. Make those 8k lancstukas have to bomb from 20k.For every one plane that gets wasted in the ack 2 get thru and are able to bomb the cv. So i say lay out a wall of flak from 1k to 20k to make the planes really work for it.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: A8TOOL on August 09, 2009, 04:13:25 PM


Do you guys (HTC) even test this stuff before releasing it?


The answer to that is quite possibly  NO


Every new version has had trouble and every new version is riddled with the same type of post.   "Do you guys even play the game?"

After some time passes things will get fixed though. they just need to see enough complaints about it.

Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: A8TOOL on August 09, 2009, 04:16:47 PM
The ack isnt accurate enough. cv's are to easily bombed anyway i say turn the ack up a notch and make it real hard to take out a cv. Make those 8k lancstukas have to bomb from 20k.For every one plane that gets wasted in the ack 2 get thru and are able to bomb the cv. So i say lay out a wall of flak from 1k to 20k to make the planes really work for it.


The ack is very deadly to the fighters but not nearly deadly enough against the bombers.

A bombers airframe is huge copared to a fighters and you would think it would be easier to hit something as large as they are but NOOOOooo

HTC got that part backward in my opinion
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Motherland on August 09, 2009, 04:18:49 PM

The answer to that is quite possibly  NO


Every new version has had trouble and every new version is riddled with the same type of post.   "Do you guys even play the game?"

After some time passes things will get fixed though. they just need to see enough complaints about it.


The answer is that no matter how much theoritcal/small scale testing you do, you never know how something's going to work until you really put it to the test...
The newest version is a GREAT example of that... and the ack was redone in the beta as well. <testing

The big thing about puffy is that for whatever reason it's more effective against fighters than bombers/anything that poses a threat to what the ack is trying to protect.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: CountD90 on August 09, 2009, 04:19:09 PM
Quote
Do you guys (HTC) even test this stuff before releasing it?


That's what the BETA was for. I never have had problems with CV ack. I've gotten knocked out by more friendly ack than NME ack but oh well.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Crash Orange on August 09, 2009, 05:16:39 PM

The ack is very deadly to the fighters but not nearly deadly enough against the bombers.

A bombers airframe is huge copared to a fighters and you would think it would be easier to hit something as large as they are but NOOOOooo

HTC got that part backward in my opinion

That is exactly my reaction. I still have no trouble at all hitting CVs in a straight line run at 8.5k, and the most that ever happens is I lose a drone, and that not very often.  But the stuff is canned death for fighters.

OTOH, in addition to fighter opposition, manned 5" is deadly against anything straight and level under 10k, so part of the fix is for people to just pay attention and make sure somone is on the 5" when buffs are inbound. As for LancStukas, the fix for that would be easy, and I wish HTC would implement it: make it so bombs from four-engine bombers won't drop at a dive rate of 1k or more.

The other problem I see with the enhanced puffy ack is that it can be used as an offensive weapon by parking the CV a mile or two offshore from a base.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: SIM on August 09, 2009, 06:49:37 PM
I really like this thread....it has all the elements needed for comedy on the AH2 BBS....Whine, whimper, armchair general.................

The manned 5 inch gun  in AH is nothing like the actual gun fired during the war. The rate of fire is comical at best. The puffy ack is more realistic than the guns that can be controlled by an individual. Imagine a task group is 20+ ships firing ack from all available 5 inch guns. Make sure to consider the class of ships that had twin mount 5 inch guns.  That Gentlemen and whiners, is puffy ack in AH.

Lets see, anyone care to explain how a fuse-setter works? How about the projectile hoist in a 5 inch mount? Better yet, was the ammunition for these mounts fixed or semi-fixed? How was the the propellent charge passed into the gun mount? Anyone care to guess the firing options?

When some folks get into finding out that information, then maybe they look at the ack in another manner.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: 1Boner on August 09, 2009, 07:17:46 PM
I don't mind the Fleet ack so much.

What I don't like is the ability for a CV group to park itself almost on the beach next to a base.

Is the water 50 ft deep at the waters edge?

And if they continue to be allowed to do so, have at least one shore battery at the base to help keep the Cv group at bay.

I was gettin hit on the runway from manned Cv ack the other day!! :O
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Spikes on August 09, 2009, 07:24:50 PM
I really think it should be more deadly to ord laiden planes.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: bj229r on August 09, 2009, 08:12:19 PM
If you're 15k in a small, nimble fighter goin 300, changing direction and altitude every few seconds, and you're the ONLY thing around, you're DEAD. Even after you change alt/direction, it would seem the rounds already in the air miraculously change direction mid-flight and target you. On the other hand, turn-fighting at 4k in a zeke, or plowing through at 7k in Lancstukas, auto-puffy never hits
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: stodd on August 09, 2009, 08:24:13 PM
I was in a 109F in early war I think it was defending a field from an off shore cv, I chased a con in the vert as soon as the first auto puffy ack went off it killed me. One shot, first time I heard puffy ack even fire its BS.
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Yenny on August 09, 2009, 09:11:27 PM
Wait until you're divin in a 262 doing 650 at 10k, and the first puffy ack shot kill u instantly =)
Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: Jayhawk on August 09, 2009, 10:53:28 PM
Not going too far off topic I took a jug to pork a field tonight and after I pulled up my right wing gets shot off.  Looking back at the film, of the 7 or 8 shots that hit me, about 6 of them were on the inside right wing.  Not complaining, I guess it was just a fluke but geez that sucked.

Title: Re: New Task Group ack has to go!
Post by: hymijr on August 09, 2009, 11:18:29 PM
it is very bad

 its fun when its land vs carier expecialy when your land :D but i keep getting popped out of the air by the ack