Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: qts on December 03, 2001, 03:35:00 PM
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Spit XIV
Fighter variant of the Arado
Gigant + troop-truck
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great list, if the Spit XIV is to be perked it's a great list.
I'd also like to see a
Bf-109K4
He-177
Ju-87 D and G :cool:
and Me-410 :D
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And that K-4 would be significantly different from the current G-10?
// fats
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Originally posted by fats:
And that K-4 would be significantly different from the current G-10?
// fats
for one it had better control authority at higher speeds and a slightly different aerodymic chape and 15MM cowl guns
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Throw in the IL-10 and Tu-2 as well.
-Chris-
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(http://www.concentric.net/~Twist/airwar/ki84/ki84.jpg)
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Spit Mk I
Bf 109 E4/7
P40C
Hurricane Mk I
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My picks, some combination of the following:
Ki-67 Ib Hiryu
Tu-2S
Me410B-2 Hornisse
Spitfire F.MkXIVc (perk)
Ki-84 Ia Hayate
P-40E Warhawk
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sweet Oboe!
Yes to the late war spit (relatively late).
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Soviet,
You can forget the MG 151 cowl guns. They are a myth. That's what I have let my self to be told anyways. Someone checked couple sources listing them and those used Green as a reference, which is belived to be the first to say 15mm cowl guns.
Better control authority meaning?
Slightly different aerodynamic shape affected its performance how?
// fats
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Me410
R4M rockets
Fw190F8 with PzBlitz2
He177
Tu2
Spit14 (perked...maybe 20 points?)
Ki84
Yak3
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Fiat G55 or Re2005
Also need more GV's i think
T-34 or Sherman
Sdzk 25
BTW why is the m8 so slow?
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I think the K-4 had a retractable tail wheel and outer gear doors that cleaned up the bottom side. But apparently, due to the takeoff/landing accident rate of the 109, they were mostly removed in the field.
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: wells ]
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what would the Ki-84 be good at i've always wanted a good Japanese plane, A6m5 is too slow, Nik2 has too low an ENY, Ki-61 rolls like crap.... Ki-84 Looks kinda evil too :)
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Kratzer said:
>Spit Mk I
>Bf 109 E4/7
>P40C
>Hurricane Mk I
make that
P-40 B and C to include the A.V.G. Hawk.
Ki 43-I (A,B,or C)
M.C.200
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K-4 is essentially same as G-10 we have now. No 15 mm MG 151's were installed and controls were identical I believe so maneuverability is about identical.
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Spitfire MkIa
Spitfire MkXIV (perk)
Hurricane MkI (8 x .303)
Bf-109E7 (or E4)
Bf-109G14 (MW50)
F4F Wildcat
SBD Dauntless
P-40B
P-40C
D3A1
Ki-21
Ki-43 Hayabusa
Ki-84 Hayate(perk)
Ki-67
La-3
Yak-1B
Yak-3
...
This about solves the early/mid war plane sets we're missing, + addition of few late war variants to those 'deprived' countries.
The Bf-109G-14's to be the link between G-6 and G-10... and I seem to have heard our G-10 is a tad bit more powerful than the historic G-10, almost simular performance with the K-4 even. If this is true,I woud like our G-10 toned down a bit, and add in a K-4 and make that a perk. Just personal preference... and this way AH finally has all the most representative 109 series in its collection :)
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OOpsss.. checked my sources..
"... as a result, the Bf-109G10 had appeared even later than the 109K4. The G-10 was to be the fastest, final evolution of the "Gustav" series, and the "Kurfurst" was designed for high altitude performance. In technical terms, those two are different planes, but in performance virtually identical."
.. Sorry 'bout that mistake :)
Is G-14 still a go?
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Wells,
That's what I've read as well. I am guessing the performance difference between G-10 and K-4 would make 0 impact in the arena. Anyone interested check a speed curve or a climb curve against what we have at AH web page, there prolly ain't much of a difference ( less than %5 ).
Hadn't heard about the reason for removing the wheel doors before though.
// fats
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Shtoooooooooooooooooka!
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HE-111
Ju 87 dive bomb/37 cannon version
Ju 84 troop carrier
He 163 for HQ def only :)
Broes
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Originally posted by Soviet:
what would the Ki-84 be good at i've always wanted a good Japanese plane, A6m5 is too slow, Nik2 has too low an ENY, Ki-61 rolls like crap.... Ki-84 Looks kinda evil too :)
The Ki.84 gives the Japanese planeset a much needed boost in speed, with a max speed anywhere from 392-422 mph depending on your sources. It possesses outstanding acceleration and climb ability, and a decent guns package (2x20mm, 2x12.7mm). It has butterfly flaps to improve low-speed maneueverability.
It should stack up well against the LA-7 and the Spit IX in the MA.
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My favorites add-on for next versions.
- Me 109 G6/U4
- Me 109 G14 (Unperked)
- Me 109 K4 (Unperked)
- Me 110 G series (With music box)
- He 219
- Ju 87
- Me 163(only for HQ defense)
- He 111
- Do 217
- Ki 84
- B-24
- B-25
- P-40
- Yak 3
- Pe 2
- I-15
- I-16
- SM 79
- G55
....
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I guess there were a reason why Messerschmitt added Flettner-tabs in model 109K ?
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"and I seem to have heard our G-10 is a tad bit more powerful than the historic G-10"
It depends on whether you believe the 428 MPH figure the real G-10 possessed, or the 458 the Germans claimed it could do.
J_A_B
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b24
109g6AS
b25
p38f
ki84
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F7F Tigercat
P61
P40E
Betty Bomber
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Rip, I agree with you on all except for the F7F. If I'm not mistaken(and I may very well be)the Tigercat didn't enter service untill after WW2. If it did, show me some proof and I'll agree with you on all of 'em :-D
-Chris-
Don't forget the IL-10!!!
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The Me-163 for HQ defense sounds like a good idea, but only if it cost quite a few perkies. Those Lanc and B-17 drivers spend a lot of time getting to an HQ at 25K, so the guys who get to make quick attacks on them with the 163 should have to pay for the ride. Maybe 200 perkies.
ra
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Archangel said:
Rip, I agree with you on all except for the F7F. If I'm not mistaken(and I may very well be)the Tigercat didn't enter service untill after WW2. If it did, show me some proof and I'll agree with you on all of 'em :-D
End Quote
A contract for 500 was placed after the first flight on 3 Nov 1943.Deliveries started on April '44. It was in squadron service, but did not "see combat".
That "see combat will make half the folks say skip it, but I'd love to see it. It could do everything but transport troops :D
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Originally posted by J_A_B:
"and I seem to have heard our G-10 is a tad bit more powerful than the historic G-10"
It depends on whether you believe the 428 MPH figure the real G-10 possessed, or the 458 the Germans claimed it could do.
It depends on which G-10 you are talking about. Some had top speed around 428 mph others higher like the one AH has. The best level top speed in AH that I've been able to
get is 440mph +1/-1 mph. Real life example of AH G-10 had DB-605DCM engine. Daimler-Benz documents stated highest output of 2200hp for that engine with MW-50 injection... So basically it has pretty much K-like performance in AH as it should. There were a plethora of differently performing G-10s depending which fuel or engine they used for example.
Kurfurst had flettner tabs to increase aileron authority at high speeds. Of course this would obviosly be a big help in the MA but as of now there are other planes to add...
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1Wmaker1
(http://koti.mbnet.fi/~paulusk/Lelv34.jpg)
[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: Wmaker ]
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"There were a plethora of differently performing G-10s depending which fuel or engine they used for example."
This is true. I think the high 420's/low 430's was the "norm" for most G-10's, although there were doubtlessly some that were faster. By that stage of the war German equipment was something less than "standardized".
I just wish the German weapons were modeled differently; the 109's and 190's are good planes that are hardly used because their guns suck so badly. I'd gladly trade off for a slghtly "less realistic" (even though this is debatable) MG151 model if it meant I'd see more 109's ans 190's. This also affects the CT IMO, by giving the Allied planeset too much of an advantage. I guess I'm still used to AW where the FW-190 was one of the dominant fighters.
[EDIT] To keep this thread on track I'll add a plane I'd love to see in 1.09:
P-63 (Soviet markings) Never done in an online sim, lots built, "sort of" a US plane but not really, and could compete in the MA (would be awesome for hunting buffs). What more could you ask for?
J_A_B
[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: J_A_B ]
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I've been flying the 190-A8 exclusively since the BigWeek scenario signup. IMO there is nothing wrong whatsoever with the 190 guns. I think the problem is that most folks do not compensate for the different "drop" the heavier German rounds take or they simply have lousy aim - unable to deduce where the target is (wil be) and pulling the trigger when they should. Once they do figure it out 4, 5 and more kill runs are a piece of cake. If I can do it. Anyone can. Same as I've gotten in the P-38 or with the Yaks.
And the 190 AW? That had one messed up flight model. Especially the D9 which is what I saw most AW players use when I ever saw a 190.
Can't wait to try out the ME-410. I smell that one coming. Soon!
Westy
[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: O'Westy ]
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Exactly Westy. When I was CO/XO in JG2, Ram and I flew the A8 alot. I managed to maintain a 4.5 K/D ratio with the A8, with its big nose and bullet drop, you really have to compensate for that in your gunnery. Nothing wrong with the 20mm in the A8 IMO.
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Westy--one good thing that happened to AW was they fixed the D-9 eventually. They did a good job too, it was probably the most accurate plane in the game. Unfortunately nobody used it because the "new" P-51 had a silly 4100 FPM climbrate.
But back to the AH Luftwaffe planes. If it's not the guns, than what makes them so unpopular? The 190G-10, 190A-8 and 190D-9 are all good planes; the Dora arguably has the best overall performance of any non-perked plane in AH. Yet I hardly see them. Thoughts?
Oh, and another plane I'd like to see in 1.09 is a JU-52 or any other transport. Something besides the C-47.
J_A_B
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I'd like to see the F-14 added.
As a new player,at least I'd have a 50/50 shot of surviving a LA-7 encounter. :eek:
[ 12-11-2001: Message edited by: Sox62 ]
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J_A_B,
My guesses would be along the following lines:
1: The don't turn well at all andmost people like to turn.
2: They are German and that incurs a usage penalty. However much you, I and many others don't connect the aircraft to the Nazis, many people still do. Japanese, Italian and Russian aircraft also suffer penalties for different reasons. As the N1K2 and La-7 demostrate though, if an aircraft is user friendly enough the penalty can be overcome.
We know that the Fw190D-9 and Bf109G-10 are harder to get kills in, and that is what it boils down to. Ease of survival is a very distant second in the priorities that determine what aircraft get used most. Because of that, famous and exceptional TnB, cannon armed aircraft will be the most common. The two most common BnZ, the P-51D and La-7, aircraft can both turn adequately.
That is my theory anyways.
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What Karnak was saying.
IMO harder to master planes are seenless because of the win via any means mentality prevalent in the arenas. For the same reasons the Spit IX (not the SPit V) the F4U-1C. LA7 and the N1K2 planes are so popular. IMO they take less time and do not deman much in the way of patience for most folks, especially newbies, to learn and become proficient with. It's a fragile go thing for many folks. They can only stand getting their arsses handed sop many times.
I'm not lumping people who simply love a plane for historical or personall resons. The 13TAS like the 51, the 56th the Jug, several LW oriented squads the different 109 or 190's as well as a few Japanese who love the KI or N1K2. And there are the VVS or Italian players orienting themselves nationally too.
I'm talking about a majority of the arena who are only interested in flyinh with a stacked hand by using the best fastes turner with the biggest guns. For them it's the over all score and body count at the end of a run that matters. It's the reason a huge number of players gravitated towards, and stayed with, the Spitfire in AW's RR arenas.
To me what matters is becoming proficient in a non-popular plane (you'll never see me in a N1K2 or La7) plane and I'm happy with my work when I'm able to hold my own against uneven odds while flying it.
That being said. I can't WAIT to dump the 190-A8 after this weekend. :)
Westy
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Buffs:
Mitsubishi Ki-21 'Sally' (almost as common as the 'Betty', but not as useless)
Heinkel He 111H-3 (with bombs or troops)
Heinkel He 177A
A-26 Invader
B-25 (with the cannon please :))
B-26
Spit XIV (perked!)
BF-110
A6M1 Zero
P-40 Warhawk
P-39 (Russian markings)
Oh yeah, and let the HE-111 carry V1s :)
~Lemur
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KI-102!!!!
He-219 A7
Me-410 any variant of the B series.
P-63
A-26
HE-177 A5
TU-2
G-55
Just to name a few.
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MC.C. 202 said:
A contract for 500 was placed after the first flight on 3 Nov 1943.Deliveries started on April '44. It was in squadron service, but did not "see combat".
That "see combat will make half the folks say skip it, but I'd love to see it. It could do everything but transport troops.
End Quote
Ok, I'm in. I just wanted to make sure it was in service, whether it seen much/any combat is of no consequence to me. It was twin engined, radar equiped, and carrier-borne so I'm happy.
-Chris-
Got F2G?
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Ki-44-II
P-61B (Just because)
Ki-44-II
P-61B
Ki-44-II
P-61B
and an
A-20 and Me-410 :D
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Beaufighter Mk.X
Henschel Tank Buster (123?)
JU88C6
A sixer of Shiner Bock, a basket of hot wings, and a clean napkin (for Hizakite)
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Hs-129 Raider. The 123 was the biplane dive bomber. Pass the wings :D
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Originally posted by Citabria:
b24
109g6AS
b25
p38f
ki84
Ditto :D
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bombers
b25, ground attack version
a26 perhaps perc
B-29 for events
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Sundog said:
...and an
A-20 and Me-410
Yes, add the A-20, a nice bird used through most of the war.
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I could handle the SpitXIV ONLY if it were perked BIGTIME!!
..Geezuz, ya can't go anywhere without finding tons of Spits already. Perk it big if for no other reason than to keep some level of variety in the MA.
Tumor
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Tumor,
Why perk it big time?
If it is perked to that extreme, they might as well not add it.
I agree that it needs to be perked, but due to its lack of sheer speed anywhere below 20k I don't think that it needs a huge perk.
If it were priced at about 30 it would be rare, but usable. If it were priced at 70, I'd never fly it, and its my favorite aircraft from WWII. I'd just be throwing 70 perk points away if I flew it in any other manner than ultra unrealistic alt monkey style.
This is a game, I want to have fun. Flying like that isn't fun. I don't want to throw 70 points away becasue I took a risk because it is too much loss for the risk.
Deck speeds:
Me262A-1: 515mph on the deck (200 perks)
Tempest MkV: 385mph on the deck (70 perks)
La-7: 382mph on the deck (0 perks)
F4U-4 Corsair: 377mph on the deck (60 perks)
Fw190D-9: 376mph on the deck (0 perks)
Typhoon MkIb: 372mph on the deck (0 perks)
Bf109G-10: 370mph on the deck (0 perks)
P-51D Mustang: 367mph on the deck (0 perks)
P-51B Mustang: 364mph on the deck (0 perks)
Ta152H-1: 363mph on the deck (30 perks)
Yak-9U: 358mph on the deck (0 perks)
Spitfire F.MkXIVc: 357mph on the deck (TBD perks)
Best speeds:
Me262A-1: 540mph at 19,000ft
Ta152H-1: 460mph at 30,000ft (AH chart ends at that altitude)
Bf109G-10: 452mph at 22,000ft
Spitfire F.MkXIVc: 448mph at 27,000ft
P-51B Mustang: 442mph at 28,000ft
F4U-4 Corsair: 438mph at 25,000ft
P-51D Mustang: 437mph at 24,000ft
Tempest MkV: 432mph at 16,000ft
Fw190D-9: 432mph at 17,000ft
Yak-9U: 420mph at 16,000ft
La-7: 417mph at 20,000ft
Typhoon MkIb: 416mph at 17,000ft
Initial climb rates:
Bf109G-10: 4,700ft per min
Spitfire F.MkXIVc: 4,580ft per min
Tempest MkV: 4,550ft per min
La-7: 4,500ft per min
Fw190D-9: 4,050ft per min
Me262A-1: 3,900ft per min
F4U-4 Corsair: 3,700ft per min
Yak-9U: 3,600ft per min
Ta152H-1: 3,550ft per min
P-51D Mustang: 3,500ft per min
Typhoon MkIb: 3,400ft per min
P-51B Mustang: 3,300ft per min
My estimates of their turn capabilities:
1: Yak-9U
2: Spitfire F.MkXIVc
3: La-7
4: P-51B Mustang
5: P-51D Mustang
6: F4U-4 Corsair
7: Tempest MkV
8: Typhoon MkIb
9: Bf109G-10
10: Ta152H-1
11: Me262A-1
12: Fw190D-9
Numbers built:
Yak-9U: Gobs
P-51D Mustang: Gobs
La-7: Gobs
Typhoon MkIb: 3,500 or so
P-51B Mustang: Lots
Bf109G-10: Lots?
Me262A-1: 1,300 or so
Spitfire MkXIV: 957
Fw190D-9: 800 or so
Tempest MkV Series 2: 705
Ta-152H1: 50-150
F4U-4 Corsair: ???
Firepower estimates:
1: Me262A-1
2: Tempest MkV
3: Typhoon MkIb
4: Ta152H-1
5: Spitfire MkXIV
6: Fw190D-9
7: La-7
8: F4U-4 Corsair
9: P-51D Mustang
10: Bf109G-10
11: P-51B Mustang
12: Yak-9U
There are many other factors as well favoring various aircraft. WEP duration, fuel endurance, durability, visibility, Perk aircraft icon, dive capability, high speed handling, service entry date, ect, ect.
[ 12-16-2001: Message edited by: Karnak ]