Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Krusty on August 12, 2009, 08:04:05 PM

Title: New bump mapping
Post by: Krusty on August 12, 2009, 08:04:05 PM
The new bump mapping is a GREAT start... but it's too strong.

It's making everything black. I just upped for a sortie in the MA, and couldn't even follow a 109 on the deck in a 3-1 (I on the 3-side), and almost ran into trees while taking off AND landing because they blend in almost totally with the ground, only the sun glinting off of them warned me.

Very nice improvement, over what we had before, but needs to be toned down!

The 109 fight was a long one. Followed another 109 right after that as well. From 2k all the way in to 100 yards it was almost impossible to get a bead on him because he was blending in with the black bump mapping.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 12, 2009, 08:09:06 PM
You sure it's not your graphic settings?  I downloaded and played the latest update during my lunch hour and never saw anything at all like you described.  Have a screenshot?


ack-ack
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Motherland on August 12, 2009, 08:26:41 PM
You sure it's not your graphic settings?  I downloaded and played the latest update during my lunch hour and never saw anything at all like you described.  Have a screenshot?


ack-ack
The update in bump mapping only effects how it displays with out detailed terrain checked... it's very noticeable in that case :)
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Ack-Ack on August 12, 2009, 08:41:40 PM
The update in bump mapping only effects how it displays with out detailed terrain checked... it's very noticeable in that case :)

Ahhh...thanks for clearing it up.


ack-ack
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: batch on August 12, 2009, 10:00:59 PM
IMO it is definitely way too dark......... I had to turn it off
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Krusty on August 12, 2009, 11:21:38 PM
Same here, had to turn it off... Now I went from little depth perception to too much, to none.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: grizz441 on August 12, 2009, 11:51:13 PM
It looks great on my end, maybe turn your gamma up?
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: batch on August 13, 2009, 12:21:05 AM
gamma already set pretty high........ not complainin just looks a bit dark for me...... again IMO its not as GV friendly

Im sure others will disagree..... I just find the darker color a bit hard on the eyes to discern objects

I will say however that the new patch did increase frames and "most" of the white squares from slow loading objects are gone......... the sun is a huge white square occasionally now

now if they could do something about the map icons changing from normal to black to nothing like a disco light all the time.... and of course the random white screen crashes... Id be a happy camper

Im sure each little step they take will make everything that much better
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Krusty on August 13, 2009, 01:15:12 AM
It looks great on my end, maybe turn your gamma up?

The update in bump mapping only effects how it displays with out detailed terrain checked... it's very noticeable in that case :)

Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: grizz441 on August 13, 2009, 01:27:57 AM
I play with detailed terrain off, looks ten times better than before on my end.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Krusty on August 13, 2009, 01:59:06 AM
A step in the right direction, yes.

Try engaging anybody over the sea or land down low, though. Also, try picking out details (such as trees and things that will kill you) against it while flying low. Fly a few low-level hops in the MA, you may change your opinion of how "nice" it is.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: grizz441 on August 13, 2009, 04:40:57 AM
A step in the right direction, yes.

Try engaging anybody over the sea or land down low, though. Also, try picking out details (such as trees and things that will kill you) against it while flying low. Fly a few low-level hops in the MA, you may change your opinion of how "nice" it is.

I have, it looks a lot more realistic than it did.  It's slightly more difficult to see enemies as perfectly as before when there was endless miles of lush green astro turf, but I think it looks great.  Our graphic details must look different.  Can you post a screen cap that illustrates your point?
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: SunBat on August 13, 2009, 06:08:10 AM
A step in the right direction, yes.

Try engaging anybody over the sea or land down low, though. Also, try picking out details (such as trees and things that will kill you) against it while flying low. Fly a few low-level hops in the MA, you may change your opinion of how "nice" it is.

I was accelerating low over the water after takeoff in a 262 last night and flew right into the water. Just stopped watching my altimeter for a few seconds and BOOM.  Had no idea I was that low.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: thndregg on August 13, 2009, 07:30:51 AM
I was accelerating low over the water after takeoff in a 262 last night and flew right into the water. Just stopped watching my altimeter for a few seconds and BOOM.  Had no idea I was that low.

I noticed that as well about the detail-less water. I have to run it that way to better my graphics performance. But unless I really watch the altimeter, my distance above water on the deck is much more difficult to ascertain.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Krusty on August 13, 2009, 02:13:19 PM
Can you post a screen cap that illustrates your point?

I've left the pixels as-is, but cropped some of the top and bottom (sky and text buffer) to save space. First one shows how the trees almost perfectly blend in with the super dark terrain now.

Second one I took a screenshot, turned off detail, and took another. I then laid one on top of the other to show side by side comparison of the bump mapping. These pics were taken later, so the sun started to set a little (bit more dim) but the first one was taken much earlier.

1)

(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/bump1.jpg)

2)

(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/bump2.jpg)

It does the same thing over the water as well. Couldn't get a bead on a 109K4 in a swirling dogfight 100ft off the water, and later had a very hard time tracking another 109K4 over land as he tried to vulch and turned around and came back.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Zazen13 on August 13, 2009, 02:47:08 PM
Not to be a smartass but...Planes were painted specifically to be hard to see against the ground. Most 109 paint schemes are camo and therefore should be harder to pick up when flying low. This is not to say that the terrain is perfect, but half the custom skins people choose because they will make them harder to bounce when low.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Krusty on August 13, 2009, 03:10:12 PM
Planes were painted so they wouldn't be bombed while on the ground. While moving they were visible. Especially while dogfighting.

However none of that matters because in this game most planes have a black ring, or even a black shadow outline on the wings under a certain range, and the overall darkness of the plane simulates a WW2 pilot who is legally colorblind (you) being unable to find a target 200 yards in front of him.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: grizz441 on August 13, 2009, 03:23:58 PM
That's incredibly dark Krusty.  I tried to take 2 pics with different gammas and screen shot them but the contrasts didn't convert into paint.  Oh well here's what mine looks like.  Not nearly as dark.

(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo237/grizz441/shot1.jpg)

In my game if I change something in the graphic detail, the gamme always resets to a dark setting.  I have to set my gamma slider to where I want it as the last thing I do in graphic detail setting for that setting to save.  Kind of a bug but maybe your gamma slider got reset to dark even though it shows it set to the right?  Go back in graphic detail and slide it to reset it and click ok.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: gyrene81 on August 13, 2009, 03:27:41 PM
Try engaging anybody over the sea or land down low, though. Also, try picking out details (such as trees and things that will kill you) against it while flying low. Fly a few low-level hops in the MA, you may change your opinion of how "nice" it is.
I do it all the time and I have no trouble flying tree top low as fast as I can.

You're screen shots look like a brightness/contrast issue...not a game issue.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Zazen13 on August 13, 2009, 03:31:30 PM
Planes were painted so they wouldn't be bombed while on the ground. While moving they were visible. Especially while dogfighting.

However none of that matters because in this game most planes have a black ring, or even a black shadow outline on the wings under a certain range, and the overall darkness of the plane simulates a WW2 pilot who is legally colorblind (you) being unable to find a target 200 yards in front of him.

That's not actually true. No doubt some planes were parked on the grass and also camo'd for that reason. But, planes that were also always kept on the grey tarmac and in hangers were also camo'd, especially those expected to be operating at low altitude. Conversely, one of the reasons the P51D was not given a camo paint scheme, which one would assume it would have if the sole purpose was to conceal it on the ground, was because it was almost always operating at high altitude where the factory silver actually made it less conspicuous to the unaided eye against the sky and clouds. Then of course there are the US Naval planes which are painted blue, F4U's operating from land based marine air bases were also painted blue to blend in with the ocean to make them harder to spot from above. Needless to say that had nothing to do with concealing them from attack on the ground...
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Krusty on August 13, 2009, 04:01:19 PM
I do it all the time and I have no trouble flying tree top low as fast as I can.

You're screen shots look like a brightness/contrast issue...not a game issue.

My gamma has been default ever since I switched to an LCD monitor some years back. Across various updates, various video card changes, I have never had to tweak my gamma.

I shouldn't have to tweak it just for the game to be playable, hence the original post still stands: it needs to be toned down.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: crazyivan on August 13, 2009, 04:09:20 PM
I was accelerating low over the water after takeoff in a 262 last night and flew right into the water.
Muhaaa!

Yeah! the new water has reached out and claimed afew of my planes but ouch!
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: grizz441 on August 13, 2009, 04:10:07 PM
My gamma has been default ever since I switched to an LCD monitor some years back. Across various updates, various video card changes, I have never had to tweak my gamma.

I shouldn't have to tweak it just for the game to be playable, hence the original post still stands: it needs to be toned down.

Or you could just tweak it?
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: shreck on August 13, 2009, 05:45:58 PM
Or you could just tweak it?


----> :aok<----
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: warhed on August 13, 2009, 05:50:18 PM
Everything in those screen shots including hangars and planes look far too dark. 
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: SWrokit on August 13, 2009, 06:14:21 PM
Pardon my dumb azz, but what exactly is the purpose of "Bump Mapping"?  I mean I have mine checked, but have absolutely no idea what this function does or doesn't do for me.

Thanks in advance  :salute

<S>
Rokit
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Lusche on August 13, 2009, 06:16:06 PM
Pardon my dumb azz, but what exactly is the purpose of "Bump Mapping"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bump_mapping
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: gyrene81 on August 13, 2009, 06:45:19 PM
My gamma has been default ever since I switched to an LCD monitor some years back. Across various updates, various video card changes, I have never had to tweak my gamma.

I shouldn't have to tweak it just for the game to be playable, hence the original post still stands: it needs to be toned down.
Then you will continue to have the same issue you have now...the gamma setting is per game controlled, not monitor...
I guess you're of the thought that a computer shouldn't have to be upgraded or replaced to accomodate newer technologies either...good thing the tech industry never had that idea.


Personally I don't think you're issue has anything to do with "bump mapping"...
Bump mapping off, notice the gamma setting:
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2415a10.jpg)


Bump mapping on, same gamma setting:
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2zyg49l.jpg)
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: SWrokit on August 13, 2009, 06:50:25 PM
Thanks.

Shading & Texture Function.  Dang why not just say that?  Here all along I figured my danged maps was going to get bumped into some far away place  :O

Salute and thanks Lusche.

<S>
Rokit
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Pyro on August 13, 2009, 07:34:31 PM
Krusty, please post your uncropped versions of those screenshots.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Krusty on August 13, 2009, 10:29:25 PM
Seems I didn't keep the composite pics, but have 2 others (one of the cropped ones).

(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/bump3.jpg)

(http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/bump4.jpg)

EDIT these are downsized by the forums a bit. Full size follow the links:

http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/bump3.jpg
http://www.nakatomitower.com/71sqn/bump4.jpg
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Krusty on August 13, 2009, 10:30:52 PM
Personally I don't think you're issue has anything to do with "bump mapping"...

Wrong... Please note, I'm talking about with DETAILED TEXTURE disabled, ONLY using bump mapping on the un-detailed terrain! It looks totally different!
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: gyrene81 on August 13, 2009, 10:54:20 PM
Wrong... Please note, I'm talking about with DETAILED TEXTURE disabled, ONLY using bump mapping on the un-detailed terrain! It looks totally different!
Ok well since you insist...everything off except bump mapping:

(http://i26.tinypic.com/120thlw.jpg)

(http://i26.tinypic.com/23h6ptw.jpg)

(http://i30.tinypic.com/55hvs0.jpg)

I must have a defective video card.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Sunka on August 13, 2009, 11:08:43 PM
I just want to say yay!It looks much better on my end ,With ground detail off and water off and bump mapping on..i can see the ground coming now and keep good frame rate's :x
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: BaldEagl on August 13, 2009, 11:47:33 PM
My gamma has been default ever since I switched to an LCD monitor some years back. Across various updates, various video card changes, I have never had to tweak my gamma.

I shouldn't have to tweak it just for the game to be playable, hence the original post still stands: it needs to be toned down.

Don't tweak the monitor.  Tweak the in-game gamma.  What's the big deal with that?

Waahhhh... it's to hard too move a gamma slider.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Pyro on August 14, 2009, 09:26:09 AM
Krusty, your screenshots are all taken at evening when the terrain is supposed to be darker.
Title: Re: New bump mapping
Post by: Krusty on August 17, 2009, 01:27:25 AM
i mentioned that the later one (tower shot) was at dusk, but the bump mapping was/is very dark at other times as well. Considering I can't turn the darned thing OFF (see bug reports forum, turns self on), there has to be a happy medium somewhere.