Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Saxman on August 14, 2009, 11:05:10 PM
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The purpose of the down draft is to keep the fight under a set altitude.
So what's the point of having it when you're cruising at that altitude, only to see another squad diving down from 2000ft overhead?
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the down draft being to little a speed frame 1 was discussed, apparently nothinf done about it? frame 1 i was cruising way over 30k in a a6m5 with little resistance other than service ceiling.
TT
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Sax, you got any film on this one?
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One of my squad did. Do you want the film itself, or screen caps?
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The purpose of the down draft is to keep the fight under a set altitude.
So what's the point of having it when you're cruising at that altitude, only to see another squad diving down from 2000ft overhead?
s.
I know when we met you guys around 45 minutes in you were at 23K and dove on us. Blkwulf and Viper65 cruised in right afterward at 29.5K in their F4Us doing about 300 MPH so I do not think the wind was set right either. Also I noticed enemy icon range was 6K. Was this on purpose? I didn't go through all the setup parameters, just thought about it. Let me know if you need the film Stoney. :salute
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NO ONE in my squadron was above 24,000ft tonight. In fact, Viper65 wasn't even online this week, so you're probably thinking last week's frame (even then, no one in my squadron was above 24,000ft then that I'm aware of, either). The only con we saw below us all night was a single scout we spotted near 96.
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NO ONE in my squadron was above 24,000ft tonight. In fact, Viper65 wasn't even online this week, so you're probably thinking last week's frame (even then, no one in my squadron was above 24,000ft then that I'm aware of, either). The only con we saw below us all night was a single scout we spotted near 96.
My bad, it was last week, I totally spaced today was Friday and missed FSO. :salute
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Sax, have him send me the .ahf file. During the frame, I saw your message on country about them being above the downdraft. It was still quiet where we were, so I pulled up and through 24,000 and then hit auto-level. I was in an F4U and the aircraft couldn't maintain level flight at full throttle. That being said, I want to see the film and then determine if I can replicate what you described. If there's some sort of fairy dust that allows the Zeke to stay above that altitude and fly normally, the CM's need to know as it is a method we use to regulate altitude.
Last week, it was a setting issue, and that was taken care of.
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Ki-61s. I'll have him get you the film.
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My scout intercepted you guys by 96 and followed.
I split my squad up into 3 groups. 2 in front, which you engaged first.
they where lower than you about 15-18k.
My group which came in you guys didnt see us because you where turnin to engage the other groups.
You guys turned perfectly in front of my group which was no higher than 24k, but we had alot of speed.
Thats when the fight started.
We lost 1 guy loondog which he was a scout to the south, in that engagement.
I will check if 1 of my squad has film. I know for a fact that noone was above 24k.
I was flight lead of highest group at 24k, the wind would blow us down any higher.
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upon reviewing my film. UnclKurt reported Ki-61's 30k+ at about 28 min. into the frame as well.
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The purpose of the down draft is to keep the fight under a set altitude.
So what's the point of having it when you're cruising at that altitude, only to see another squad diving down from 2000ft overhead?
NO ONE in my squadron was above 24,000ft tonight. In fact, Viper65 wasn't even online this week, so you're probably thinking last week's frame (even then, no one in my squadron was above 24,000ft then that I'm aware of, either). The only con we saw below us all night was a single scout we spotted near 96.
Not true. Simply not true. :aok You tried to jump our group of 5 KI-61s. We were below you.
Ki-61s. I'll have him get you the film.
:lol
You simply gave up your alt. That's why another group came in over you.
It was a thing of beauty to see you drop on our group of 5 KI-61s. Especially knowing the rest of our squad was turning into you unseen. A perfect setup. Our vox got a shot of adrenaline when we saw you coming in blind to the fact that our larger group was unseen and coming in hot. :x
You can search the film all you want, but all your gonna find is that you saw a group of 5 KI-61 lower than you and you attacked.
You were not attacked at 24k from a group of KI-61s at 26k. Not even close.
I doubt anyone will post film, because I know it will show what I have recalled.
If the video shows otherwise, I'll be happy to leave FSO forever.
:rofl
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Still waiting on film Sax... I'll PM you my email...
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Stoney,
I let the guy who has it know. Waiting on his response.
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upon reviewing my film. UnclKurt reported Ki-61's 30k+ at about 28 min. into the frame as well.
If I'm thinking of the same thing..
I believe what UnclKurt said was Ki61s 30+ , I made the mistake he was referring to alt, but when questioned he said he was referring to the number of planes.
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If I'm thinking of the same thing..
I believe what UnclKurt said was Ki61s 30+ , I made the mistake he was referring to alt, but when questioned he said he was referring to the number of planes.
I was monitoring 150 when Kurt said that. You remember correctly, he was referring to number not alt. But the way he said it at first did make it sound like he meant alt.
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If I'm thinking of the same thing..
I believe what UnclKurt said was Ki61s 30+ , I made the mistake he was referring to alt, but when questioned he said he was referring to the number of planes.
copy, thanks for clear that one up. :salute
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Not true. Simply not true. :aok You tried to jump our group of 5 KI-61s. We were below you.
:lol You simply gave up your alt. That's why another group came in over you.
It was a thing of beauty to see you drop on our group of 5 KI-61s. Especially knowing the rest of our squad was turning into you unseen. A perfect setup. Our vox got a shot of adrenaline when we saw you coming in blind to the fact that our larger group was unseen and coming in hot. :x
You can search the film all you want, but all your gonna find is that you saw a group of 5 KI-61 lower than you and you attacked. You were not attacked at 24k from a group of KI-61s at 26k. Not even close.
I doubt anyone will post film, because I know it will show what I have recalled. If the video shows otherwise, I'll be happy to leave FSO forever. :rofl
Nice use of bait. :devil They figured "Bah, just 5 61's, should be easy enough to bag them and climb up!" Then the trap door is slammed shut.
9 GIAP fared well until the A35 or A39(?) field melee. Only 4 of us made it out of there. We lost xCATx to a phonecall and Dantoo broke a wingtip on his Corsair. Leaving scooner and myself. We decided to head to A51 and stumbled on a lone 67 that had damaged. It was dispatched and about 10 84's tried pursuing the two of us and gave up.
From the looks of it, they were coming back to help the lone Buff and then wanted "revenge" that they couldn't get.
I enjoy the FSO's and 9 GIAP VVS RKKA. Always a great time with these chaps, vox is crisp during a melee. But there are always good laughs the rest of the time.
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Stoney:
What if you set the wind to an updraft,say about 150mph,that way if you went above alt cap you'd never come down! :aok Seriously wouldn't that put and end to things,you'd be force to tower out.
:salute
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You can come down even with a upwind like that.....
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Anyone seen this so called film with us over 24k, go ahead post it here. I would like to see it.
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I know I was able to maintain 25,000 feet in a A6M5b....
I did not even realize there was a downdraft until after the frame.
:lol
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One of my squad made the film. I've already contacted him and told him to send it to Stoney. The concern was brought up, Stoney asked for the film, so that's where I'm leaving it. I'm sure if your whole squad all saw the same issue and one tells you they've got it on film you'd be just as hot to straighten it out.
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We did nothing wrong. :aok
We couldnt get any higher than 24k. :rofl
You didnt see the proof before you posted this thread callin people out?
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(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/news-bias.jpg)
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The alt cap was not there. We flew way over it in the first frame. We decided to test and see what happens...nothing.
Which brings up a questions or rules.
The objectives said there was a down draft at 25k. BUT it didnt say you couldnt go over 25k if there wasnt one.
I think in further FSO we need the CM to state clearly what the allowed alt is. If there is a glitch in wind then we all still need to stay within the rules.
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The alt cap was not there. We flew way over it in the first frame. We decided to test and see what happens...nothing.
Which brings up a questions or rules.
The objectives said there was a down draft at 25k. BUT it didnt say you couldnt go over 25k if there wasnt one.
I think in further FSO we need the CM to state clearly what the allowed alt is. If there is a glitch in wind then we all still need to stay within the rules.
Did you test this in the 2nd frame?
Let us see the video that shows JG2 owning
saxman...
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/KENNYGsame.gif)
If the video is posted you will see that he ran from the slaughter of his buddies as well.
JG2 was within the frikkin rules.
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Did you test this in the 2nd frame?
Let us see the video that shows JG2 owning
saxman...
(http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp193/dmbear/KENNYGsame.gif)
If the video is posted you will see that he ran from the slaughter of his buddies as well.
JG2 was within the frikkin rules.
If your definition of "running" is spiraling out of control with three enemy on you, missing a wing and TRAILING FLAMES, then yeah, I guess I ran.
The only person stirring the pot here is you with your cute pics and smart-assed comments. I called NO ONE OUT. I'm asking the CMs to investigate settings, not any breaking of the rules. So butt the @$%& out.
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If your definition of "running" is spiraling out of control with three enemy on you, missing a wing and TRAILING FLAMES, then yeah, I guess I ran.
The only person stirring the pot here is you with your cute pics and smart-assed comments. I called NO ONE OUT. I'm asking the CMs to investigate settings, not any breaking of the rules. So butt the @$%& out.
We can all see the logs. Who killed your group in KI-61s? Us.
There would have been no pot to stir w/o your post. You put the pot on the burner with insufficient evidence and
an inability to defend a rebuttal.
Don't start a fire if you cant control it.
Show proof of your claims Saxboy. There is still nothing for the CM's to review. Please post it.
My "cute pics" will stop when you show your pics or vids of what you claim.
Untill then I wont "butt the @$%& out." as you put it. Instead, I'll fight the good fight that you yourself started.
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I only ever flew the Ki-61 during the August Storm FSO, and maybe it's just me but I find the gun arrangement with the cannon in the nose and wing mounted machine guns rather awkward (but I'm used to "sighting in" with the cowl guns before opening up with the cannon whenever I'm flying a Japanese ride). I definitely prefer the more "conventional" layout used by the A6M and Ki-84. Not all that great of a sight picture, either.
Didn't have much chance to really get a feel for her, (we engaged a horde of B-25Cs on the deck) but I've rarely been concerned when I encounter one in my F4U so long as I've got room to work with her.
madda,
I mostly refer to situations where the Ki-61 has the alt advantage. I like to have some air underneath me so I can work him a bit, especially try to force him to overshoot and reverse our positions so I'm on top, which isn't too hard against the Tony because of her poor sustained climb. Otherwise I'll work her until I can draw her in close and sap her of E, but again that takes a little bit of room.
Col-alt and E or coming from an alt advantage I really have no concern of Ki-61s.
:rofl I guess you just have issues with the KI-61! :x
Saxalicious
22:04:05 Departed from Field #87 in a F4U-1A
22:34:25 Captured by enemy forces after a KI-61 gave your F4u an enima
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Stoney: I don't think the Alt cap was working as designed last frame either. I was in a heavy 110 on my way to 23.5K (just under the alt cap). I got distracted by radio chatter and doing map analysis, i looked back at the alt meter and my heavy 110C with 50% fuel had climbed to 24.5K and was still climbing pretty well. No stalling, it was going slower but still climbing. At that point I nosed back down to 23.5 and leveled out. My first thought was "well the alt cap weather isn't working tonight". I didnt think to report this until i saw these posts.
Recommend that the wind sheer be increased to hurricane force winds that distroy AC.
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Ok, just to repeat:
Frame 1 we had a problem with the settings, so if you remember flying above 24,000 feet in frame 1, you probably did, since there was no downdraft. We had that fixed in Frame 2.
So, if you were flying above or saw someone else fly above 24,000 feet in Frame 2, I'd like to hear about and see film. I attempted to fly above 24,000 feet during Frame 2 in my Corsair, and was unable to sustain flight above that altitude. With a bit of energy, it is quite simple to penetrate above 24,000 feet, but very difficult, at least in my testing, to sustain it. However, I'll allow anyone to prove me wrong, I just need some film with which to do some analysis. Like I said yesterday, if there's something wrong with the mechanic, I need to know.
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When a down draft is set the farther you go above the initial alt the more it kicks in. By this I mean at say 24.1K you will not get the full 127MPH down draft. You will get maybe about 50+ mph. Meaning it is possible to actually flight level there with autopilot. Well by level you are actually in a slight climb to compensate for the down draft winds and still able to move forward slowly.
In offline testing I took a Ki 61 up and was able to climb to 10.1K and do autopilot level. It severely cut my forward speed though.
Now with offline testing I found that say if you approach 9.8K level there until you hit your max speed and then pitch up in an auto climb you can climb to roughly 11K before the down draft winds overcome you (meaning you lose speed do to the climb and fighting the down draft winds to the point that you have no forward momentum or vertical momentum). At this point I nose pitched down and I was driven back to 10K when in auto. When in manual I stalled out and winds forced me down under 10K.
Tried several variations and I was not able to stay level and fly at anything higher than 10.1K for any extended period of time before the winds forced me down below that.
I then repeated the test with a Ki 61 offline with a wind cap set at 20K -127 rise and 127 mph with the same results.
So yes, it is possible to pierce the 24K alt wind cap but not for very long before 127 MPH winds drive you back under it.
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Tested this myself online in SEA I.
Much the same results as Stoney and Ghostdancer.
Down draft of 127mph (which is the max) at 24k and above.
Rolled a 109k and put her in auto climb.
1st try she made it to 24,200 and was pushed back down.
2nd try level at 23,500 at 300mph. Auto climb punched up to 25,500 and pushed back down in less than 30 seconds.
3rd try level at 23,500 at 300mph. Manual climb and made it up to 26,000. Was able to keep her at 24,200 for a couple minutes, but speed was not much over 120mph with a very high angle of attack.
It is very possible for players to get above 24k, but staying their for any length of time would be difficult unless their is some kind of bug that we don't know about.
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In frame 1, I did not set the downdraft, mainly as an oversite. For frame 2, I made sure that the downdraft was set to max starting at 24k. It was double checked 20 min prior to launch.
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If the video is posted you will see that he ran from the slaughter of his buddies as well.
I ran from the slaughter due to missing half a wing and knowing that I would be unable to do anything to help. You may have been thinking of me. I was entirely unable to do anything to your Ki-61s due to my overextending and having little experience at high altitude.
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In Frame 2 I zoom climbed (roller coaster) above 24K but could not maintain that alt and was pushed down. The wind was on. I checked the settings...
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How about we just end the damn alt cap. I like fighting above 30k
Vlkyrie1
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Looks like no 1 has a film to prove we flew over 24K. And no 1 will, because we never exceeded the alt cap. Looks like Sax was just jacking his hole because we wasted him, and his boys so easily!
:x
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Discussed with Stoney. Satisfied with his response. End of story.
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I love happy Endings.