Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: brady on November 01, 2000, 07:36:00 PM
-
gentlemen correct me if I am wrong(regrettably I mislaid my book on the Ju88!) but if memory serves their should be a dive bombing sight on the Ju 88, heck it was famed for such attacks on Allied merchant and Naval vessels.
Brady
-
Brady, are you from AW-3? AW has make believe sights or maybe more like ones from Desert storm era F-16's.
-Westy
-
It had a line(s?) on the bottom cockpit glass to indicate when to start the dive, then the gunsight was used to line up during the dive. Divebombing in German(and others I think) aircraft was partially automated, something sadly missing in any sim.
Westy; and the AH "norden" is realistic? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
Also, most German divebombers and dive degree marks on either window that could be matched to the horizon, before the artifical horizon implemented degrees. (And it was quicker too (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )
Course on some they just grease-penciled it on.
I want!
-
I'm not having trouble hitting targets when diving with the Ju 88. The dive brakes work really well, and you can dive vertically at a very slow speed. If you dive vertically, the aiming problem is trivial.
I know the real one had a gadget to help with this, but it is quite simple to equal or exceed the performance of this system with a little practice.
-
I'm waiting for someone to try that grease pencil trick on their monitor.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
Agreed. Those lines should be on the left cockpit window, with markings to indicate 45º, 70º, and 90º. They were there in the Ju-87 too; seen 'em in the 88 since BoB was released back in '88-90. Had a load of fun in both the 87 and 88 dive bombing targets. That's the first thing I noticed when our 88 showed up on the ramp. No dive angle markers.
------------------
Flakbait
Delta 6's Flight School (http://www.worldaccessnet.com/~delta6)
"My art is the wings of an aircraft through the skies, my music the deep hum of a prop as it slices the air, my thrill the thunder of guns tearing asunder an enemy plane."
Flakbait
19 September 2000
-
yes I have seen the marks on the glass in photos to, but I thought their was a fold away sight above the pilots head that was used in the dive.
I have done the dive thing to in it is fun but I need a little more work on it.
Not from AW 3 , I left FA2 for "greener pastures" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Brady
-
I have looked at a picture that had description saying something about dive bombing scope in Me109, on the side of cockpit for 45 degree dive bombings, so that it would be easier to see the target from behind the nose..
Though.. as dumb as I am, I couldn't see anything weird in the picture (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
There was a special divebobmbing sight based on some kind of mechanical computer. You fed in the altitude of the target and it's speed and you kept feeding in the changing altitude (of the plane) in the dive. The bomber took care of feeding in the readings and the pilot had some kind of visor-like device with a moving horizontal bar and a vertical aiming line. When the two lines and the target merged the bombs were released. Maybe the dive angle was fixed? I've read accounts of Finnish JU88 crews using this sight against naval targets.
------------------
Otso
[This message has been edited by Otso (edited 11-02-2000).]
-
Ahh yes, the pull-out was automatic.
------------------
Otso
-
I'm all for anything that can aid in divebombing. An angle of dive indicator would be great! I have alot of work to do on my divebombing tactics, the first of which being to attempt to do it the same each time. As it is I dive in and then realize I am possibly not steep enough and have no clue what to use for an aimpoint.
Tis one of my favourite aspects of the sim, and damnit i have alot of work to do, to get it right.
SKurj
-
All of this talk assumes that the sim is programmed to replicate real world ballistics...and I doubt that is the case.
It may well be that the sim determines that the weapon will land where the pipper was pointing at release as long as certain airspeed and altitude parameters are met.
Who knows? HTC does...maybe they will tell us!
I have described real world A2G theory in my A2G series at SimHQ. Included in the articles are suggestions on how to fly A2G weapon delivery in a sim. This includes tips on how to estimate dive angles from the cockpit.
Andy
-
"Westy; and the AH "norden" is realistic?"
No. But it's not the "Computer tracking of the bombs impact point regardlles of how you handle your aircraft" type that AW uses.
-W
-
Hi
Fishu what you are talking about was just a 45 degree red line drawn on the first panel of the canopy. It was used for horizon reference in a dive.
thanks GRUNHERZ
-
Dive angle is one of the larger variables in the dive bombing problem. It and release G are responsible for most misses.
Here is the manual dive bombing situation...
The pilot selects a specific weapon. Each weapon has its own unique ballistics, but in the case of free fall 'dumb' bombs, those ballistics are all pretty much the same.
Then he selects a desired release speed, dive angle, and altitude.
Once in the dive, his first problem is getting the airplane aimed at the correct spot. For a bomb delivery, this is NOT the target...it is a point on the ground past the target.
With his nose on this point (and held there), the pilot now accelerates to his desired release speed and then adjusts the throttle to hold that speed.
As he is doing this, he checks his dive angle. He knows that dive angle errors will have to be compensated for by adjusting his release altitude.
Now, back to our Ju-88 example.
The pilot rolls into his dive. He aims his nose past the target at the estimated 'aim off' distance. He stabilizes himself on this aim point.
As he accelerates in the dive, he checks his dive line on the side of the canopy. If he is on the proper dive angle, the line will parallel the horizon. If not, he will see that he is either shallower or steeper than his planned dive angle.
He now figures an altitude compensation for any error in his dive angle. If steep, he will release the bomb above the planned altitude...if shallow, he will fly through his planned release altitude and release at a lower altitude.
How much above or below? These values can be 'canned' and memorized..such as in 'two degrees steep, pickle 500' high'.
In this manner, the WW2 pilot can plan a specific dive angle and release altitude. He then used cockpit references to measure his dive angle and made corrections on his release altitude to 'work the bomb in'.
Andy
-
Thats a great explanation Andy, thanks. Even a dummy like me can understand that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
-
TY Andy well said (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Now I guess I will just have to "use the force".
Brady
-
And in Aces High, there is one factor that plays a large factor:
rudder slip.
Heh, been outta trim a few time in the g2/g6/g10. Always miss the target (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Center the dot, and it's no problem, but it is a thing ya must think of if yer in any of the 109's.
------------------
StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)