Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: eagl on August 21, 2009, 10:41:44 PM
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A blast from the past... I saw a note in an online business networking site about Wild Bill Stealey inviting people to try out warbirds. The interesting part was this:
This game will be the basis for a new game company I am forming. I have taken two game companies public so far and I think this new company will be the best of them all. Check out my old companies, MicroProse Software and Interactive Magic. The new company will be announced shortly.
Interesting.
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Such a sad story. :( That man is all about marketing with zero interest in content and development.
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Why has the new warbards, is it warbirds 2007 not doing to well? deos is the FM not very good?
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"I have taken two game companies .." and augered them both.
omg. http://www.gamezone.com/news/04_27_09_01_23PM.htm
What a deluded bag of hot air!
Oy!
http://localtechwire.com/business/local_tech_wire/news/story/1167783/
I think Mild Dill and Voss are kissing cousins...
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I have heard a lot of stories about the demise of Warbirds and that whole regime...
Almost afraid to ask any questions or have it explained to me.
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"I have taken two game companies .." and augered them both.
:aok
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Why has the new warbards, is it warbirds 2007 not doing to well? deos is the FM not very good?
The only thing keeping it alive is the S3. If you look at the game today, it hasn't progress much since the 3 verion was release about 7 or so years. The make a once a year update to keep the copyright going.
I was at their last con about 3 year ago. Talked with Wild Bill several times. He's a movating guy to talk with. But he doesn't stike with anything once it's release. He talk about how many units of Gunship they sold. I told him he should do like they did with Falcon 4.0 and take that game back and update it and release it again. There is a big group that still plays and mod it. But he is not that interested. Warbirds is just a way for him to bring in cash as he works on other projects. Very disappointing the way he treats a great game.
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And a lot of names from the S3 are slowly but surely creeping in here.
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"I have taken two game companies .." and augered them both.
Augered... got out, set it on fire, and then took a chainsaw to it. While continuously telling everyone "we'll have it flying again in 2 weeks, thanks for the monthly dues."
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I left when they turned off Warbirds 2.7
Aces High has been so many times above and beyond every version of Warbirds 3.
The only thing I miss is the smooth and easy in-flight external views, not that we need them online.
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I didn't realize Warbirds was even still around... It seems like whenever there's an argument over different online flight sims around here, it's down to AH2 and IL2, with WW2OL occasionally being mentioned.
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yep theyre still around and not as dismal as everyone around here would lead you to believe......
I went and checked out their boards last night and read a few....
seems they recently had a major update as well and going through the same growing pains that AH is having.....
lots of people having problems with patches etc etc......
also looked at a few screenshots and some video footage........ pretty nice stuff
there were some things just from screenies that you could see right away that werent as nice as AH... cockpits for example
however there was quite a bit that makes AH look like an old game..... their terrain for example
I never tried warbirds so I dont know what the playability is like..... Im pretty content right where I am....... but I didnt see alot of whining about it on the boards
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Granted it was probably circa 2005, but the last time i tried Warbirds 3 online, they had spontanious air spawns of drones in the main online arena. :huh :rofl
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yep theyre still around and not as dismal as everyone around here would lead you to believe......
I went and checked out their boards last night and read a few....
seems they recently had a major update as well and going through the same growing pains that AH is having.....
lots of people having problems with patches etc etc......
also looked at a few screenshots and some video footage........ pretty nice stuff
there were some things just from screenies that you could see right away that werent as nice as AH... cockpits for example
however there was quite a bit that makes AH look like an old game..... their terrain for example
I never tried warbirds so I dont know what the playability is like..... Im pretty content right where I am....... but I didnt see alot of whining about it on the boards
Uh Batch...almost my entire squad has jumped from Warbirds to AH in the past 2 months and we can tell you for a fact...it's rotten pork.
That last update was so SKYDVR could tell everyone "hey look I finally figured out how to fix Dawn of Aces" and turn the F4U4 into an uber plane that rivals the Tempest here...
The graphics are still stuck in 1995.
The LW fms have been porked since WBs 3 was released.
If you think the terrain is great...look again, there is only 1 map that is even close to AH the rest have trees you can fly under and through.
All of the maps have multiple bases that can be dropped with a single 250kg bomb.
There are only 15 or so people active in the forums and anyone who says anything about problems with the LW fms gets blasted or the post gets deleted.
Wildbills latest gimmick was to offer a CD with a new idea culled from a couple of players on getting started then call it "Warbirds 2009 1/2".
Warbirds isn't bad if all you want to do is fly allied stuff and really bad terrains and almost no one in the main arena doing anything but fighting each other in F4U4s.
Can't wait to see what Wildbill has up his sleeve.
Granted it was probably circa 2005, but the last time i tried Warbirds 3 online, they had spontanious air spawns of drones in the main online arena. :huh :rofl
That's only in Dawn of Aces now.
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All of the maps have multiple bases that can be dropped with a single 250kg bomb.
Do they still have that idiotic "tonnage on target" thing where the bombs don't have to hit any structures to close a field?
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Do they still have that idiotic "tonnage on target" thing where the bombs don't have to hit any structures to close a field?
Yeah most of the bases are like that...and the bombsights have laser point accuracy regardless of alt or speed.
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whats wrong with the LW flight model?
I take it they are pro allied rides then,
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whats wrong with the LW flight model?
I take it they are pro allied rides then,
Oh yeah...definately "pro allied"...put it this way, several people have submitted actual historical data on LW aircraft for 4 years that I know of and strangely enough the person(s) that data has gotten submitted to, keeps telling those people to submit data...yet the last update only had fixes for allied rides based on a few pieces of information submitted within 6 months prior to the update.
There is only 1 Luftwaffe plane that works anywhere close to the way it should and it's the 109E that had been coded a couple of years ago.
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Granted it was probably circa 2005, but the last time i tried Warbirds 3 online, they had spontanious air spawns of drones in the main online arena. :huh :rofl
It's all about gameplay. They've made choices to make it more "fun" to people who aren't hard-up about realism. HTC has made other choices, like my own personal gripes, having the fields too far apart (in my opinion) and having flak that can pick a fighter out of the sky. In RL you just didn't see fighters getting nailed by flak that much, primarily due to ranging problems. But in HTC, a fighter flying straight and level anywhere near a flak battery is going to get nailed sooner or later. Even a maneuvering fighter that is alone in the flak is going to get nailed, sometimes in less than a minute. I don't care how "good" HTC says the modelling is, I've been trained to go against real life radar-guided AAA systems and the best the russkies have isn't as good as AH flak.
So my point is, no matter how good your argument is for or against any particular gameplay feature, you are naturally going to come across decisions made by the game owners/managers and they will set up the game in order to drive gameplay in the direction they think it should go. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other games. Warbirds is no different, they've just gone a little more "gamey" (in my opinion) to try to make it more fun.
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There is only 1 Luftwaffe plane that works anywhere close to the way it should and it's the 109E that had been coded a couple of years ago.
109E was added in WB 2.0.
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The only thing I miss is the smooth and easy in-flight external views, not that we need them online.
Let's not forget the JU-52. Sometimes, I really wish the goon had a gun.
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WB 2.77 is still the best online flight sim i've played (sorry AH - I love you too)... :devil
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Why has the new warbards, is it warbirds 2007 not doing to well? deos is the FM not very good?
The FM and view system sucks. HOing is the main tactic used in game. Everyone warps. Why anyone would play it for more than lets say 10 hours is beyond me.
<S>
Grind
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Aces High is much, much, much better.
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AHII has a much more team player oriented aspect to it, especially due to range channell and not needing to run teamspeak at the same time. That is the major difference I have found other than the amount of players online but thats probably relative. Lots of death by typing.
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It is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.
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intresting
he focused the wrong things at WB. He wants to compete with AH doing a Main Arena. That was the biggest fault he did during the last years. If he would follow the old WB RPS idea inside the WW2 Arena, and fixed the FM and DM i bet things went a little bit different.
But to compete with the same idea he only could lose. So after all these years a lot of people (sometimes also complete squadrons) changed over from wb to ah. This fact has more impact than he expected it. I think he will not even spent a thought about it, which is a big fault at all. Customer Care is a key factor to be successfull in a niche market where mmo dogfighting games are. Secondary he lost after hitech also target as a key progammer, so how should warbirds ever come back to life.
We changed over with the complete Squadron >>>Parrrots<<< from WB to AH in autum 2007. The squadron worked nice in wb with its limited game options, but splitted into different pieces while the gameplay in ah have so many options.
Well, i think wild bill will just paste some screenies together and sell it as a crisies competioner.......
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It's all about gameplay. They've made choices to make it more "fun" to people who aren't hard-up about realism.
Not according to the player base there...many that remain are more interested in realism than gamey...as long as it pertains to their favorite ride...but very few will play in the WWII arena that has limited plane sets and more realistic settings (go figure). If WBs has 100 active subscribers playing right now I'd be surprised...lots of Mac users left for sure.
HTC has made other choices, like my own personal gripes, having the fields too far apart (in my opinion) and having flak that can pick a fighter out of the sky.
I'm sure WBs has everything you would want, bases that can be taken out with a single bomb, little towns that are bases where you take off and fly through buildings to get off the ground, trees that you can fly through and under, all the allied uber rides you can handle (no spit16, tempest or typhoon) , laser accurate weapons on the allied planes, flaky damage models, etc...etc...etc...and if you're willing to pay at least $20/month there are extra skins you can see.
In RL you just didn't see fighters getting nailed by flak that much, primarily due to ranging problems. But in HTC, a fighter flying straight and level anywhere near a flak battery is going to get nailed sooner or later. Even a maneuvering fighter that is alone in the flak is going to get nailed, sometimes in less than a minute. I don't care how "good" HTC says the modelling is, I've been trained to go against real life radar-guided AAA systems and the best the russkies have isn't as good as AH flak.
Are you sure about your estimation of the number of planes that got nailed by manned AAA (20mm, 40mm, 88mm, 5in) in RL WWII?
Then you want to compare the capabilities of heat-seeking and radar guided missles going against aircraft that fly well over 500mph with built in defense systems against a simulation of manned anti-aircraft explosive projectiles going against planes that fly between 250 and 350mph in level flight...and you think the simulation should be less accurate...it is when you look at the number of shots fired, speed and altitude of the plane, and the number of planes that actually get shot down. Sometimes it just boils down to bad timing.
TBH, if anyone thinks AH is bad in any way...go check out WBs...you will be back here.
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If he would follow the old WB RPS idea inside the WW2 Arena, and fixed the FM and DM i bet things went a little bit different.
RPS will kill any and all WWII flight games. Just look at the whine on the bbs about eny. There isn't enough cheese to go with the whine a rps would produce.
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RPS will kill any and all WWII flight games. Just look at the whine on the bbs about eny. There isn't enough cheese to go with the whine a rps would produce.
If any flight sim comes along that's similar to AH and has an RPS, I will open an account there and close this one. It's the only thing that can keep my interest in "arenas."
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If any flight sim comes along that's similar to AH and has an RPS, I will open an account there and close this one. It's the only thing that can keep my interest in "arenas."
I myself wouldn't go so far, but I really did like the RPS feature.
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RPS will kill any and all WWII flight games. Just look at the whine on the bbs about eny. There isn't enough cheese to go with the whine a rps would produce.
well,
sure it is harder for the newbees, because they have to learn new aircrafts each 3-4 days. but its great fun once youre able to fly different planes. and so true, LA7 drivers will die a lot in an RPS based arena ;) BUT vets are pleased with it over all the years.
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From what I can remember, the people who didn't like the RPS were the "I'm an [insert plane here] pilot, and I don't like to fly anything else," types.
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You know what drove me crazy in WB? The freaking inertia of the roll rate. None of the aircraft respond correctly in the roll axis. Bank the plane 20 degrees, and the plane will continue to roll past 20 degrees even with opposite aeleron input. It takes a while for the roll inputs to accelerate and decelerate. It is nothing like a real airplane, especially a fighter. I could not get used to it, and it drove me nuts.
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You know what drove me crazy in WB? The freaking inertia of the roll rate. None of the aircraft respond correctly in the roll axis. Bank the plane 20 degrees, and the plane will continue to roll past 20 degrees even with opposite aeleron input. It takes a while for the roll inputs to accelerate and decelerate. It is nothing like a real airplane, especially a fighter. I could not get used to it, and it drove me nuts.
That "feature" was put in place to foil the "stick stirrers" who would, through very rapid roll reversals, take advantage of the network smoothing code to warp around. Rapidly rolling left then right, repeatedly, only about 30-45 deg bank necessary, would result in terrible warps due to predictive smoothing. The "solution" (remember this was back in the days of the 14.4 modem) was to put what felt like loose rubber bands into the flight controls. Even planes with reputations for crisp roll response became more sluggish in roll than a C-5.
There are conspiracy theories around that say the flight controls got even more jacked up in the last release before the original company employees jumped ship. I figure they left right in the middle of a patch cycle and it wasn't intentional, but the last WB release before the employee diaspora was the worst version ever released. It was so jacked up I sort of quit playing even before the employees quit and formed their new companies, and of course AH was far better than the last WB release at the time.
Nothing can ever be proven and HTC can't/won't talk about it because of legal ramifications, but man did that last release suck. And the sloppy roll response of the WB planes is just a holdover from the anti-warp adjustments taken to combat stick stirrers.
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From what I can remember, the people who didn't like the RPS were the "I'm an [insert plane here] pilot, and I don't like to fly anything else," types.
That's how it was.
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Nothing can ever be proven and HTC can't/won't talk about it because of legal ramifications, but man did that last release suck. And the sloppy roll response of the WB planes is just a holdover from the anti-warp adjustments taken to combat stick stirrers.
HT and I left the company 6 months before the Grapevine office closed and shortly after we released 2.5. We had nothing to do with the next version that came out.
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word Up! :x
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Just so it is clear... I had nothing to do with the next release either.
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If any flight sim comes along that's similar to AH and has an RPS, I will open an account there and close this one. It's the only thing that can keep my interest in "arenas."
And it wont be alive long. What do you think most people will pick.
Fly any AC I want any time I want.
Fly limited selection that changes every 2-4 days hmmmm.
RPS is as craptastic for a MMOG flight game as the wishes for night in an MMOG flight game.
HT knows people log off or quit altogether. What would you do if your dinner depended on it?
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Perhaps a new thread is warranted to discuss RPS as a game feature.
As long as there are multiple arenas in AH, I for one would like to see it as an option.
As a matter of fact, I'd like to see the whole ENY settings, plane set mix, RPS, etc. etc. shake up every TOD so it's not the same game every TOD. Variety is the spice of life. Why change just the map?
For example, say one TOD is axis vs allied, with/without an RPS, and the next TOD is all planes set with ENY settings on.
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TBH I think RPS would have as much (or maybe a bit more) chance of working as the AvA. And the AvA is worthwile enough that we have it.
So...
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And it wont be alive long. What do you think most people will pick.
Fly any AC I want any time I want.
Fly limited selection that changes every 2-4 days hmmmm.
RPS is as craptastic for a MMOG flight game as the wishes for night in an MMOG flight game.
HT knows people log off or quit altogether. What would you do if your dinner depended on it?
You are quite wrong bronk. One of the most popular servers on Hyperlobby for Il-2 features rotating, historical matchups (but it's not always chronological). Most of the planesets are quite limited compared to AH, but if you don't like it, it changes after an hour or two.
Why am I here instead of there? Well, for the obvious reason that AH has in-game voice, and far more players on one server: hence, FSO.
Regardless, there is a healthy market for those who prefer a more historically limited form of online air-combat. All we're waiting for is for someone to tap it.
TBH I think RPS would have as much (or maybe a bit more) chance of working as the AvA. And the AvA is worthwile enough that we have it.
So...
The AvA is sick for other reasons. My own opinion is 1) lack of supervision for the blowhards who frequent it and push others away; 2) a much more robust early-mid war planeset. Unless you want to rehash all of the 1944-45 setups, you tend to be missing important aircraft, and hence the appearance of choice being more limited than it should be.
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Why am I here instead of there? Well, for the obvious reason that AH has in-game voice, and far more players on one server.
Why are more here instead of there... I mean cmon once you buy the software, IL-2 is free.
Yet more still play AH.
RPS sucks and HTC knows it.
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397 people are playing Il-2 through hyperlobby right now. That doesn't even account for servers not listed on hyperlobby.
But this isn't about Il-2. It's about whether there's a market for something like an RPS. The evidence says there is.
Ultimately, you believe it sucks, and you move to the generalization that it sucks in itself. FYI, you do not create transcendent values with your opinions. Some of us like the RPS very much. ;)
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397 people are playing Il-2 through hyperlobby right now. That doesn't even account for servers not listed on hyperlobby.
But this isn't about Il-2. It's about whether there's a market for something like an RPS. The evidence says there is.
Ultimately, you believe it sucks, and you move to the generalization that it sucks in itself. FYI, you do not create transcendent values with your opinions. Some of us like the RPS very much. ;)
How may set ups in hyperlobby are rps... small% are rps.
Hyperlobby has a bunch of easymode set ups also. Wondering if those aren't the most populated.
HTC know it's bad for business. Why is it bad for business? Majority do not like it. Not a small majority either, otherwise HTC would have an arena set up for it.
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Warbirds was cr*p when I played it. Most days there were only 50 or 60 people playing in all the arenas combined. The forums were sad. People talkin about how their squads used to have 40 or more people and now done to less than 10(at the time I was there).
Sounds like this guy is blustering about something that isn't going to amount to much. They need to change their marketing, game play, and a whole bunch of issues in order to be viable.
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Keep back-peddling bronk. :P
Face it. Some of us just love a RPS. We just love, love, love, love it to death!
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It is very difficult to have a rolling plane set, when you do not have any players to roll them with. :devil
Hitech
The implication being "rps" drives players away.
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Keep back-peddling bronk. :P
Face it. Some of us just love a RPS. We just love, love, love, love it to death!
Back peddling?
It's a business killer and HTC knows it. I have yet to back away from this statement.
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Warbirds was cr*p when I played it. Most days there were only 50 or 60 people playing in all the arenas combined. The forums were sad. People talkin about how their squads used to have 40 or more people and now done to less than 10(at the time I was there).
Sounds like this guy is blustering about something that isn't going to amount to much. They need to change their marketing, game play, and a whole bunch of issues in order to be viable.
Yeah... but, back in the day, it rocked. I remember logging on on a Friday night in 2000 with over 200 ppl online. What a blast that was. But I wouldn't be inclined to go back to that particular game version today any more than I would be inclined to go back to Aces of the Pacific. Whoever (Dale?) was responsible for the development of Warbirds produced a really cool piece of work that entertained a lot of people for a long time.
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HT and I left the company 6 months before the Grapevine office closed and shortly after we released 2.5. We had nothing to do with the next version that came out.
Fair enough. Mainly I remember is that the "last" version released as the company came apart was pretty bad, and one of the worst parts was the rubber-band flight controls. Damage/hit mapping was also messed up.
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397 people are playing Il-2 through hyperlobby right now. That doesn't even account for servers not listed on hyperlobby.
But this isn't about Il-2. It's about whether there's a market for something like an RPS. The evidence says there is.
Ultimately, you believe it sucks, and you move to the generalization that it sucks in itself. FYI, you do not create transcendent values with your opinions. Some of us like the RPS very much. ;)
hehe,
before i left wb i tested IL2 with Hyper Lobby stuff vs AH2, i decided that AH2 was the better option for me, because i was kicked twice at the rps based server shooting down the adim (maybe he was p****d loosing against a german in a 190 :D )
So i lost intrest on IL2 very quickly, and it was good so far because the current graphic of AH2 is close to IL2, maybe equal. WB is far behind
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...the sloppy roll response of the WB planes is just a holdover from the anti-warp adjustments taken to combat stick stirrers.
Thanks for the explanation Eagl. I don't know how anyone can stand that "Feature" for any length of time. It is silly to think that they have not fixed that by now.
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Perhaps a new thread is warranted to discuss RPS as a game feature.
As long as there are multiple arenas in AH, I for one would like to see it as an option.
As a matter of fact, I'd like to see the whole ENY settings, plane set mix, RPS, etc. etc. shake up every TOD so it's not the same game every TOD. Variety is the spice of life. Why change just the map?
For example, say one TOD is axis vs allied, with/without an RPS, and the next TOD is all planes set with ENY settings on.
Uh just to state the very obvious, there is an RPS setup in place right now:
Early War
Mid War
Late War
Yet Early War and Mid War stand nearly empty every day.
RPS is there but all the people talking about how "great it would be" aren't. And puhleaz do not talk about how this squeaker bunch ruined this or that noob ruined that...EW has less than 15 people on it daily, obviously they are the few dedicated to the early war plane set...MW averages 40 a day...and again, they are obviously dedicated to the plane sets.
If everyone truly wants RPS in AH it's in place go to it. I'll be there when I get off work.
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Uh just to state the very obvious, there is an RPS setup in place right now:
Early War
Mid War
Late War
I appreciate that not everyone likes or wants an RPS. Opinions vary. But please understand what a Rolling Plane Set is. It's not a set of static match ups. Rather, the available plane set within a single arena changes almost daily as newer models are released into service and older models are phased out. In some implementations the newest models are available only at the largest bases. As they gradually phase in to service they become available in mid size and forward bases. Over the course of a TOD you encounter a variety of match ups and mission challenges based on available planes. You have to learn different flight models and different tactics as the rolling plane set progresses. Love it or hate it, it's quite different from the Early War, Mid War and Late War arena setups.
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I know how an actual rolling plane set works, basically something that could easily be set up in the AvA arena...isn't JG54 arranging stuff similar to that? Part of my point was that I see people wanting variety but no one actually taking actions to get that variety with what is currently available.
Seems to me it could be something put into action relatively easily with the proper terrains...BoB, ETO, Western Front, PTO, Africa. It would also take adding some planes to the current set (there are some missing, not the uber late war stuff). The ENY and perk points would have to be disabled too.
Maybe if someone asked nicely to have that arena setup for a trial period to see how the player base accepted it. We all know there will be times when there are an abundance of players and times when it will be like it is now...deserted. If it works out, maybe HTC would arrange to make it a permanent fixture. Or has that already been tried here?