Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: funked on March 01, 2000, 01:54:00 PM
-
OK, enough ugly planes. I just saw the Typhoid err Typhoon screenshot and I just about puked. How about one of the purtiest thangs ever to grace the skies:
(http://www.totavia.com/~ACybriw/aviapix/Fighters/Tojo/KY-fr052_shoki_tojo.jpg)
(http://214th.com/ww2/japan/ki-44/ki44a.jpg)
Nakajima Ki-44-IIb
Powerplant: One Nakajima Ha-109 (Type 2) fourteen-cylinder air-cooled radial rated at 1520 hp for takeoff, 1440 hp at 7055 feet, and 1320 hp at 17,220 feet.
Performance: Maximum speed 376 mph at 17,060 feet. An altitude of 16,405 feet could be reached in 4 min 17 sec. Service ceiling was 36,745 feet, and the maximum range was 1056 miles.
Weights: 4643 lbs empty, 6094 pounds loaded.
Dimensions: Wingspan 31 feet 0 1/16 inches, length 28 feet 9 7/8 inches, height 10 feet 8 inches, wing area 161.458 square feet.
Armament: two fuselage mounted 12.7-mm Type I (Ho-103) machine guns and two wing mounted 12.7 mm Type I (Ho-103) machine guns.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 03-01-2000).]
-
Agreed Funked, I am with yah (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Not only is it time for a nice Japanese Plane.
But for a nice Russian plane like the Yak-3 or Yak-9U, both very nice looking aircraft.
Would like to see them in the same release as the next fighters.
Enough with those ugly American, British, and German aircraft!!!
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 03-01-2000).]
-
Enough of all the Typhoon bashing...I think it's a very nice looking aircraft. But then again, I'm British. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
I agree that your Japanese Ki-44 is ver y nice as well Funked.
-
I got your shoki right here. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
"If it's stupid but works, it's not stupid."
-
What about the Ki-44-IIc with four Ho-3 cannon? Or even the extra-low velocity 40mm's! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
be careful what you ask for, just cuz its IJA dosnt mean it was the worlds greatest T&b a/c (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
its fast, powerful and turns like an oceanliner with those tiny wings (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Citabr, I know what I'm asking for. Wingloading is higher than other IJAAF planes but still low by US standards. Climb rate, dive acceleration, and roll rate are the sweet points of this plane. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
How about THE prettiest thing ever to fly?
(http://www.madasafish.com/~nashwan/Spitfire2.jpg)
Spitfire XIV with bubble canopy.
-
Hi Funked,
Was wondering about the choice on the 44 with the current late war plane set?
It was fast for a Jap plane in its day but was out run and out climbed by later IJN & IJA planes.
It did,not do to well over the home Islands aginst late war U.S. army or navy fighters.
Then again I don't realy know to much about it. Stuff I've read from the CBI point at the frank as the jap plane of note. Followed by the Ki 100.
It is a good looking plane though. And I'll fly anything (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
see ya on line
-
Originally posted by Nashwan:
How about THE prettiest thing ever to fly?
(http://www.madasafish.com/~nashwan/Spitfire2.jpg)
Spitfire XIV with bubble canopy.
Agreed Nashwan.
We should start an all out 2 men war for this plane to be the next one to be modeled (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (after of course those that are already in process of being made)
mx22
-
Combat23:
Well none of the IJNAF or IJAAF planes had a very good record, so I would throw that criterion out the window post-haste. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The Ki-84 had great performance, but I have read that the engine was notoriously unreliable and the performance in the field was often worse than the Ki-44 due to manufacturing and maintenance problems.
The Ki-100 did not offer higher performance than the Ki-44, except maybe in flat turns. The main advantage of the Ki-100 over the Ki-61 was that it eliminated the very unreliable engine of the Ki-61. And don't forget that very very few Ki-100 ever made it into combat.
-
The Ki-44 weighed only 6000 lbs loaded? That's not much heavier than a Zeke. I smell a paper plane. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
--ra--
-
No, check out the dimensions. It's a tiny, dense, plane.
-
funked,
Not to steal any thunder away from the Shoki but the Hayate (Frank) was a better aircraft in pretty much every regard. And yes the Frank was plagued with maintenance problems just like every Japanese fighter late in the war. After all school children were putting the things together because everyone else was gone. Production aircraft including prototypes for the Frank exceeded 3,500. (Pretty small compared to typical American fighters). The Shoki production just topped 1,200 aircraft.
Climb rate for both aircraft is the same: 5 min 54 sec to 16,504 ft. Top speed for the Frank is listed at 397 mph while the Shoki is 376 mph. Wing loading for the Shoki is listed as 37.7 lb/ft^2 and only 35.1 lb/ft^2 for the Frank.
I don't think that HTC is modeling engine reliability or overall aircraft quality so the Frank would be the better aircraft IMHO. Still I am a big fan of the Japanese aircraft and any fighters are really appreciated.
All aircraft stats are from "Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War" by Rene J Francillon.
ISBN: 0-87021-313-X
This book is pretty much the definitive guide to all Japanese aircraft and you can still get it at Amazon.
-
You have a good point. The only thing the Ki-44 has going for it vs. the Ki-84 is that the Shoki saw combat from 1942 onward. Also a friend who speaks Japanese has read a lot of the Japanese literature on the two planes and concluded that the Ki-84 was a lemon.
P.S. Francillon's book is listed by Amazon as "out of print", but you can still get copies directly from the Naval Institute.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 03-10-2000).]
-
That's too bad about the book. I got mine about a year ago from them. It's a great book.
Yeah the Frank got a bad rap because of really poor workmanship. It couldn't have been helped though at that point in the war. One of the things that helped the Frank out was that it could be manufactured in half the time of the Shoki.
I am trying to locate an interview that I read a while back with a Japanese Ace. Although he didn't mention the Frank he did mention the George. In his opinion the George was a 2nd rate plane from a 3rd rate manufacture. If I can locate the interview that would be great. Japan had some wonderful aircraft in the very early testing stages at the end of the war.
Spritle
-
Amazon says Americas Hundred thousand is out of print. It is not. Contact the publisher and see if it is.
------------------
Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
1st Aces High Trainer Crew
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/~tltoon)
-
Funked,
Here is a link to the article that I mentioned in an earlier post. Look under the sub-heading IJN Leadership. It's down towards the middle of the article. http://www.danford.net/sakai.htm (http://www.danford.net/sakai.htm)
Spritle
-
nashwan, mx22,
Make that 3 of us (I asked for this one back last century) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) as part of a "Most Wanted plane in AH" poll
TTFN
snafu
-
Thanks Spritle!
-
Good article, Spritle. BTW, I just finshed Sakai's Samurai book after buying it at a flea-market for 50 cents. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Great read.
-
funked,
I found the book at www.barnesandnoble.com (http://www.barnesandnoble.com)
Just do an author search for Francillon. They list it at $31 I think.
Spritle
-
Thanks Spritle!
-
funked,
Now this is what I'm talking about.
Hope this UBB thingie works (first time and all).
(http://www.hasegawa-model.co.jp/1999p/JT67P.jpg)
Spritle
-
Koike Shigeo baby!
-
Spritle,
Where can Sakia's book be found? I've looked for years and can't find it. Do you mean
"Winged Samuria"?
By the way "America's Hundred Thousand" is not out of print. You can get it from
Schiffer Publications. The auther is Francis H. Dean. He lives close to me and I have coresponded to him a couple of times about his book. The number to order it from Schiffer is 610-593-1777. There catalog rocks. It's worth the call.
See ya
F4UDOA
-
F4UDOA,
I don't know where you can get his book, but I've got a good place to inquire. There is a really good BBS at www.j-aircraft.com (http://www.j-aircraft.com)
Post your question there and you will probably be able to locate several copies.
This page is an excellent resource for Japanese WWII era aircraft and ships.
Gunthr said that he found the book at a flea market in an earlier post.
Spritle
-
I bought Sakai's book "Samurai" (paperback) from an online dealer for $5.00 a couple of months ago.
http://www.sonic.net/~books/paperback.html (http://www.sonic.net/~books/paperback.html)
Not sure if he has any others but you could try.
And this online bookstore is outstanding for old, autographed and out of print books:
http://www.aeroplanebooks.com/ (http://www.aeroplanebooks.com/)
check thier latest book list link
http://www.aeroplanebooks.com/bklst20001.htm (http://www.aeroplanebooks.com/bklst20001.htm)
-Westy
-
Guys for ANY out of print/rare book you might wish to try out
http://www.bibliofind.com (http://www.bibliofind.com)
This sight has the inventories of hundreds of bookstores, search's thru them, and then displays who has the book, how much, and all pertinent information.
I highly recommend it.
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"
-
Also try www.abebooks.com (http://www.abebooks.com)
-
Japanese Army Air Force Aces 1937-45 by H Sakaida -Osprey Press has some interesting info. They include Ki-27 to Ki-100 and have biograpical sketches on many pilots.
-
Punt!
-
Well the Ki 44 is sweat but i would rather see.........Ki 84
(http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&photoId=nHwCwcI8IgWfgpKYCaBQ986*p!QKbY6gO*31GwM5i6Q8NdlnWrtNqy*jbsITSlYJg)
But realy folks any of these would be cool:
P1Y1
Grace
Ki 102
Ki 84
Emily
Tenzen
I think an Atack plane like the Ki 102 or a fast bomber like the P1Y1 would be great first before we get another fighter.
(http://content.communities.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&photoId=nHwD6d60JNIFs2mHfM9ggHF4xY6Gy1uBBOIL0vAzWuZ4VQ!pBhaoFjvmZM4qCFICQ)
-
Punt
-
Originally posted by Pyro
I got your shoki right here. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
"If it's stupid but works, it's not stupid."
give it back!!!
-
who keeps bringing back old posts. i mean this one is 2 YEARS OLD. whoever it is cut it out
-
yo guys, the Ki-44 IIb climbs to 5000m in 4' 17"
the Ki-84 Ia climbs to 5000 in 5' 54"
The incorrect reference was given for the Ki-44 Ia which arrives at this altitude at the same time as the Hayate.
Remember also that the Ki-44II is doing that climb rate without water injection and the Ki-84 is using ADI.
Both have butterfly combat flaps and almost the same wing and power loadings so their sustained turn should be the same.
The area the shoki would shine is in the rate of roll and we all know how the Fw190 used that to advantage...
It would also be better than the J2M3 which has a losey rate of roll beyond 325mph...
-
Sakai's book is available at Chapters(huge book chain) here in Canada eh. Its been reprinted. Prolly a copy in your town..
SKurj
-
Yep Ki-44 is the Japanese Fw 190. And they were in combat as early as 1942. :)
-
Show Me The Tojo!!!!!!!!
-
I suggest 2 loadouts in AH Ki-44.
12.7mm*4 and 12.7mm*2+40mm*2 rockets.
it would be really fun!
-
Pleeeeeeease! :D
http://www.ah.wakwak.com/~mitsu/244sentai/images/ki44/ki44-2_data_e.jpg
-
I want Ki-44-II late model.
because it had optical gunsight.
telescope gunsight may be interesting, and I have its pics too.
but it would be challenging for HTC.
-
Beautiful.
http://www.ah.wakwak.com/~mitsu/244sentai/images/ki44/ki44_01.jpg
Show Me The Shoki!!!!!!!! (TM)
:D
-Mitsu
-
Originally posted by Viper17
who keeps bringing back old posts. i mean this one is 2 YEARS OLD. whoever it is cut it out
I have to dissagree.
Funked, Thanks for Punting this. It's still just as relevent as it was 2 years ago, and if you hadn't, I probably would have missed the interview with Sakai, and that would have been a shame.
-Sikboy
-
.
-
LOOKS LIKE THE JAPANESE P-47.
sorry for all caps
-
wow, a 2 year old thread, i think i'll look for one from 1999;)
-
S!
I like this plane.
Would do a lot to fill Japanese early war missing links. :)