Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JB88 on August 27, 2009, 07:48:10 AM
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/27/world/main5268713.shtml?tag=topnews (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/27/world/main5268713.shtml?tag=topnews)
and we didn't fire back?
:confused:
:furious
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/27/world/main5268713.shtml?tag=topnews (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/27/world/main5268713.shtml?tag=topnews)
and we didn't fire back?
:confused:
:furious
me thinks it's the perfect excuse to show them real power.
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Since they can't be certain the crew of that hijacked ship isn't on board
they probably will play it safe.
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We should not be involved with conducting surveillance if the pirated craft is foreign flagged. All the US companies flagging their ships overseas should not be covered by our military.
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Inter national laws on engaging when being fire at. It is real complex and you have no ideal how often it happens. Way before 9/11, we been flying over Iraq "no fly zone" for years. At times they will fire a SAM missile at one of us and we just take them out.
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Mess with the bull...
Anyone else find that graphic to be EXTREMELY misleading? Yes, clearly the pirate operations are all based in Ethiopia and Kenya. :lol Let's throw Djibouti and Eritrea into the mix too just for kicks.
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Maybe the flaper wasn't even armed?
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I heard that pirate's fired at a Indian gunboat of the coast of India, the Indian gunboat blew them to pieces.
Guess what UN made a complaint to the Indian government.
How many pirates would there be after a year if we took the Indian stance - NONE
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I heard that pirate's fired at a Indian gunboat of the coast of India, the Indian gunboat blew them to pieces.
Guess what UN made a complaint to the Indian government.
How many pirates would there be after a year if we took the Indian stance - NONE
That is the same stance N.Korea, China, N.Vietnam and Russia take...if only the U.S. would too.
New U.S. diplomatic and military policy - hostile activity toward any of our military assets will be answered with swift and deadly retribution.
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That is the same stance N.Korea, China, N.Vietnam and Russia take...if only the U.S. would too.
New U.S. diplomatic and military policy - hostile activity toward any of our military assets will be answered with swift and deadly retribution.
i always thought that was how it was supposed to be anyway.
i'm not military....but me being in command of that chopper........those pirates would become(very quickly) ex-pirates, and i'd worry about the consequences when i land. my crew is more important than diplomacy.
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I heard that pirate's fired at a Indian gunboat of the coast of India, the Indian gunboat blew them to pieces.
Guess what UN made a complaint to the Indian government.
How many pirates would there be after a year if we took the Indian stance - NONE
This is probably true.
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i always thought that was how it was supposed to be anyway.
i'm not military....but me being in command of that chopper........those pirates would become(very quickly) ex-pirates, and i'd worry about the consequences when i land. my crew is more important than diplomacy.
:lol, no you would not. U'd do some kind of evasive manoeuver, then once safe, u'll not be able to justify endangering ur crew for "retribution".
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Some background info from a Navy helicopter maintainer
The USS Chancellorsville is a small boy. Helos attached to small boys primary mission is usually vertical replenishment, search and rescue, and or antisubmarine warfare. For these type of missions the birds are not usually outfitted with weapons larger then a 9mm. For antisubmarine warfare the birds can be outfitted with torpedoes or missiles.
If the Navy had fired back they could have easily used the USS Chancellorsville weapons and made the pirates ship into a new coral reef and not endanger the crew of the helicopter.
I have no opinion either way about not firing back. Not in the mood for politics today. :D
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:lol, no you would not. U'd do some kind of evasive manoeuver, then once safe, u'll not be able to justify endangering ur crew for "retribution".
DAMMIT MAN!!!
why do ya hafta come in here with common sense????
you are right :aok
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*sighs*
I think it's time to start issuing letters of marque again, allow merchant ships to be armed, and kerbang, problem solved. :D
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I like how most who have posted oversee the whole "hostages" aspect
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I heard that pirate's fired at a Indian gunboat of the coast of India, the Indian gunboat blew them to pieces.
Guess what UN made a complaint to the Indian government.
How many pirates would there be after a year if we took the Indian stance - NONE
Maybe...But then...England hanged pirates for hundreds of years and it never stopped new pirates taking their place.
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I like how most who have posted oversee the whole "hostages" aspect
If you give ships letters of marque, that allows them to open fire on pirate vessles, well, rafts, and be armed. If you can defend yourself, kerplunk, no more hostages...
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I like how most who have posted oversee the whole "hostages" aspect
Officially my report would say the pirates were seen executing the hostages and in an attempt to save the hostages lives, the ship was sunk and all personnel were lost.
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I like how most who have posted oversee the whole "hostages" aspect
actually, i didn't. they need to know that it will do them no good to take or keep hostages. this is the best, and quickest cure for hostage situations. it won't happen more than once or twice before they get the message. :aok
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Perhaps we should sit down with the pirates in a peaceful and diplomatic manner and discuss ways that we might enrich their lives. We could get to the root issue for their anger and give them money in a kinder gentler fashion.
Then when they kill hostages we could just send them more money and ask them if everything is OK. Or perhaps would could offer them some counseling and help them work through their difficult issues in life.
Maybe they just need a timeout and some loving understanding.
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:lol, no you would not. U'd do some kind of evasive manoeuver, then once safe, u'll not be able to justify endangering ur crew for "retribution".
I'd like to think my crew what be yelling "Smoke that MF!"
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/27/world/main5268713.shtml?tag=topnews (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/27/world/main5268713.shtml?tag=topnews)
and we didn't fire back?
:confused:
:furious
They are surveying the situation obviously. They found the "Mother Ship" around a lot of the mess there. If the pirates were smart, they wouldn't have fired at all. But now, they tipped their hand to the USN.
I'd imagine a UK/US joint effort would be on the horizon for dealing with this ship. Not everything in life is "think Playstation and blow watermelon up".
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Not everything in life is "think Playstation and blow watermelon up".
I prefer to live by the quote...
"Any problem can be overcome by the proper application of explosives."
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I prefer to live by the quote...
"Any problem can be overcome by the proper application of explosives."
Joking is one thing. 105+ hostages is a lot for ANY Military Commander to deal with, let alone his units casualties. Thank God, cooler heads are prevailing in this situation right now.
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Joking is one thing. 105+ hostages is a lot for ANY Military Commander to deal with, let alone his units casualties. Thank God, cooler heads are prevailing in this situation right now.
+1
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+1
:salute Trig. I was just sayin' is all. No harm intended. :rock
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Joking is one thing. 105+ hostages is a lot for ANY Military Commander to deal with, let alone his units casualties. Thank God, cooler heads are prevailing in this situation right now.
I wasn't joking bud. Calm politicians create needless casualties more often than decisive action, history has proven that. Give me 2 Navy seal teams and I guarantee that boat as well as 100 hostages come back.
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If you give ships letters of marque, that allows them to open fire on pirate vessles, well, rafts, and be armed. If you can defend yourself, kerplunk, no more hostages...
Letters of marque were not issued to merchants to fight pirates. They were given to pirates to raid an enemy nation. All ships may fight pirates if they so wish and there really are no international laws that prevent merchants from arming their ships. However many nations would not allow armed civilian ships to enter their ports. Solution: Armed merc escort ships.
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Well. Sucks that you and two navy seal teams weren't on that helicopter or
in the area.
which makes ya wonder. I mean WTF are they thinking???!!! How could they
not be using the services of someone who could take in two teams in and bring
out the hostages? IMO they should have had your cell # handy, advised you
of the situation, had you grab your gear and gotten you and two teams out on
a flight to the precise spot pronto!
I think quite a lot of people have watched too many Chuck Norris movies or
(nod to Masherbrum) are numb to real life from Playstationitis.
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Uh sorry to burst your bubble gum bubble there Westy...real life experience...not as lean, not as mean, still a Marine. And I've seen what can happen when "cooler heads prevail".
People who think "peaceful solutions" following the rules of society will stop violence, need to get some real life experience with people who don't follow the rules of society and rely on violence to get what they want. Then if they make it back alive come tell me in person that the "rules of society with peaceful solutions" is the only way. Again, history proves otherwise.
And Chuck Norris movies suck.
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Uh sorry to burst your bubble gum bubble there Westy...real life experience...not as lean, not as mean, still a Marine. And I've seen what can happen when "cooler heads prevail".
People who think "peaceful solutions" following the rules of society will stop violence, need to get some real life experience with people who don't follow the rules of society and rely on violence to get what they want. Then if they make it back alive come tell me in person that the "rules of society with peaceful solutions" is the only way. Again, history proves otherwise.
And Chuck Norris movies suck.
I never said what I did as a "peaceful solution". But the "cooler heads will prevail" = "a well thought out contingency plan". Of course f'ups can happen and I hope those Pirates can make peace with themselves soon, because I have no sympathy for them.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/27/world/main5268713.shtml?tag=topnews (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/27/world/main5268713.shtml?tag=topnews)
and we didn't fire back?
:confused:
:furious
The story I read said they helo crew didn't even know they were being fired at until they reviewed the infrared surveillance video after completing their surveillance flight. They likely would not of returned fire anyways though, due to the ship in question is holding an estimated 30 hostages.
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helo crew didn't even know they were being fired
Must be some real observant surveillance..... guess its a good thing they didnt get hit.
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Perhaps we should sit down with the pirates in a peaceful and diplomatic manner and discuss ways that we might enrich their lives. We could get to the root issue for their anger and give them money in a kinder gentler fashion.
Then when they kill hostages we could just send them more money and ask them if everything is OK. Or perhaps would could offer them some counseling and help them work through their difficult issues in life.
Maybe they just need a timeout and some loving understanding.
We could even invite them to the states for free healthcare. :lol
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Must be some real observant surveillance..... guess its a good thing they didnt get hit.
There were over a mile away from the ship so trying to spot a small muzzle flash that far away would be pretty tough.
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Why is it that you have the best military hardware in the world yet you cannot build a decent modern car to save your life :x
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Why is it that you have the best military hardware in the world yet you cannot build a decent modern car to save your life :x
dunno what you're talkin about there........as we do.
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the point is, that these guys are pushing. they're pushing to see how much they can get away with.
they fired on a crew from the most powerful nation in the world. if nothing is done, they WILL do it again,,,,,and next time could have much much worse results.
again, as i keep reminding, i'm not military........but i know we have the manpower, technology, and equipment to make it known to them, well and clear, and in no uncertain terms, that they NEED to stop pushing, and find a new profession, as their continued behavior will result in their removal from this life.
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No bubble burst here in the least nor am I advocating "peaceful solutions."
I pointed out that a reason they may not have returned fire is because
it's not a pirate ship they were fired on by but a hijacked ship. Whihc
had a hijacked crew somewhere and here's no way for anyone to be sure
that a return of fire would not wound or kill any of the hijacked crew.
Whats so tough to understand about that? I'm all for "intelligent"
solutions and not knuckle dragging, knee jerk responses.
My second post clearly mocks those who type from the safety of their
keyboard that they want a smashingly aggressive and fatal response by
others regardless of the consequences to innocents.hostages/hijacked
crew. No risk on their part nor any skin off their nose that's for sure!
The kind of popsicle who's watched movies like "Navy Seals" just a few
too many times or who have posters of Chuck Norris and Steven Segal
on the wall over their bunk-bed. hugahunks who would in reality toejam thier
pants if they had to be on one of those teams going in or worse one of
the hostages or hijacked crew.
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Yep. Collateral Damage is in the forefront of the Commanders minds.
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I wasn't joking bud. Calm politicians create needless casualties more often than decisive action, history has proven that. Give me 2 Navy seal teams and I guarantee that boat as well as 100 hostages come back.
Please feel free to google 2002 Nord-Ost siege, where cooler heads were not listened to.
Decisive action killed ~200 innocent people.
Maybe you should move to Russia.
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The Nord-Ost siege action was a stunning success from an operational point of view. Only one hostage was killed by gunfire and all the terrorists were neutralized. The big blunder was not notifying the medical authorities of the chemical agent used during the assault resulting in more than 100 deaths (possibly as many as 200) due to medics not knowing what to do to save them.
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Please feel free to google 2002 Nord-Ost siege, where cooler heads were not listened to.
Decisive action killed ~200 innocent people.
Maybe you should move to Russia.
And how many has it saved in the long run?
Let's put it into perspective here:
You have a loved one that is in a hostage situation (alone or with others). No government is not willing to negotiate on the terms. It comes down to money and the people holding the hostages are not beyond killing them all because they believe sooner or later the government will break down and commit to their terms. You don't have the money or the means to negotiate anything, nor do you have any political clout. Even if you did have enough money to negotiate for the one person you're concerned about, the chances are they will take your money and add you to the number of hostages anyway, if the military even let you get that close. The military has full intel on the situation and have assets on station ready to strike. They have a well thought out plan. Problem is there is a 50/50 chance that some or all of the hostages will get killed if action is taken. On the other hand there is a 99% chance that some or all of the hostages will be killed if the government doesn't negotiate.
What do you want to happen? The safety of your loved one is not guaranteed regardless of the action taken.
The same scenario has been repeated with increasing frequency over the past 10 years, and the past 18 months have been the worst just because the pirates think they can get away with it. Make it too costly for them and they will either stop or be erradicated.
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It's amazing what a fisherman will do when he isn't able to feed his family.
That's what's going on in Somalia.
The English spent the better part of 200 years chasing pirates around the Atlantic, Pacific and Caribbean. It wasn't until there was no longer a business in piracy was it eradicated. Bullets and bombs do not solve this problem, and you can figure that out with a 5th grade education and a short read on historical precedent.
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It's amazing what a fisherman will do when he isn't able to feed his family.
That's what's going on in Somalia.
The English spent the better part of 200 years chasing pirates around the Atlantic, Pacific and Caribbean. It wasn't until there was no longer a business in piracy was it eradicated. Bullets and bombs do not solve this problem, and you can figure that out with a 5th grade education and a short read on historical precedent.
It was the Brits, Spanish, Dutch and French...but whose looking at history.
Since you pulled the history plug, at different points in time until the U.S. became a major power, some of those very governments contracted with pirates to go against the other countries. You know how it ended? It became too dangerous, the pirates had every major government with a navy and some mercenaries hunting them down. Many managed to retire, most didn't make it.
It's monetary profit that drives such activity and the only way to make it not profitable is to make it too dangerous to risk. You failed to ask yourself why the sudden increase in naval piracy? Considering naval piracy has been around for nearly as long as humans have sailed the oceans, why all of a sudden are there more and bigger incidents of piracy just in the last decade than there has been in the last hundred years?
Because rather than do whatever it takes to eliminate the problem, someone decided it was best to make it more profitable than the risks involved...pay them whatever they want. What really takes the cake is there are people in service that are willing to do whatever they have to in order to get those hostages back at the risk of their own lives but they're being told no by people like yourself. Good job. I hope no one you know ever has to go through something like that.
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I heard that pirate's fired at a Indian gunboat of the coast of India, the Indian gunboat blew them to pieces.
Guess what UN made a complaint to the Indian government.
How many pirates would there be after a year if we took the Indian stance - NONE
It was about a year ago and it was off Somolia. One of the pirate 'motherships' fired on an Indian Navy destroyer after it refused to stop when ordered.
The Indian navy said the Tabar spotted the pirate vessel while patrolling 285 nautical miles (528km) south-west of Salalah in Oman on Tuesday evening.
The navy said the pirates on board were armed with guns and rocket propelled grenade launchers.
When it demanded the vessel stop for investigation, the pirate ship responded by threatening to "blow up the naval warship if it closed on her", the statement said.
Pirates then fired on the Tabar, and the Indians say they retaliated and that there was an explosion on the pirate vessel, which sank.
"Fire broke out on the vessel and explosions were heard, possibly due to exploding ammunition that was stored in the vessel," the Indian navy said.
Some of the pirates tried to escape on two speedboats. The Indian sailors gave chase but one boat was later found abandoned, while a second boat escaped.
INS Tabar has been patrolling the Gulf of Aden since 23 October, and has escorted 35 ships safely through the "pirate-infested waters", the statement said.
Last week, helicopter-borne Indian marine commandos stopped pirates from boarding and hijacking an Indian merchant vessel.
BBC news article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7736885.stm)
ack-ack
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I'd imagine a UK/US joint effort would be on the horizon for dealing with this ship. Not everything in life is "think Playstation and blow watermelon up".
Wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't a submarine close by as well, very covert way of dropping off commandos at the target if needed.
ack-ack