Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Spatula on March 05, 2000, 09:25:00 PM
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I heard rumours a while ago about the LA-7 being a possibility. Being an LA-5 Driver i would leap at the chance of getting a later model kite of the same family.
I dont know much about it excpet that i outperforms the LA-5 which would make it a fearsome sight i would imagine.
The art work would be based on the LA-5.
How about some other Russian planes? Like the Yak-9??
Also, i dont see too many people who fly the LA-5, i wonder why not? Its an awesome ride, dives like a bat out of hell with little compression, zooms well. Turns well, a little bit on the lighly armed side, but if ya cant knock a plane down with 2 20mms then you need help.
So, i ask, why does no-one fly it?
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Supreme Mega-Overlord Spatula
"...perfect for serving"
(http://www.spatula.co.nz/aceshigh/spatula_card.jpg)
=1st Airborne Kitchen Utensil Assualt Group=
[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 03-05-2000).]
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La-5FN has poor range in the arena due to the draconian fuel multipliers.
I love to fly it, but by the time I climb and get to enemy territory, I've got bloody little fuel left.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 03-05-2000).]
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The only bonus of the La-7 is an extra 20-30mph top speed, and maybe an extra cannon if you're lucky.
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sounds perfect to me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Supreme Mega-Overlord Spatula
"...perfect for serving"
(http://www.spatula.co.nz/aceshigh/spatula_card.jpg)
=1st Airborne Kitchen Utensil Assualt Group=
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I like the way that LA5 flies, my main problem are the Views : I hate those bars on the side (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Otherwise, I agree it's a nice, but ugly plane (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Saw/Saintaw
KNIGHT'S FINEST FLYING BRICK
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/dorasaw.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."
[This message has been edited by Saintaw (edited 03-06-2000).]
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Juzz is right, at best you will get 20mph and an extra cannon.
Really the La-7 is just a La-5FN with some improvements to aerodynamics, and a couple of hundred pounds in weight reduction (and if you load it with the 3 20mm cannon option you will actually be heavier). It will have the same wingloading, and same powerloading as the current La-5FN.
That 20mph sounds like alot, but since its already one of the slowest planes in the set, its all relative. For instance, the La-7 still wouldn't be any faster than the AH Spit IX (max to max comparison).
Why dont' I fly it? Well, the fuel modifier doesn't bother me much, its the speed issue. The La-5 (and 7 too) are primarily E fighters, and your right that they have nice handling characteristics. The problem is that an E fighter at some point in the fight has to have the ability to disengage and escape. And it just can't do that in the AH planeset.
Unfortunately from looking at the performance Specs., I don't think the La7 will solve the VVS need for a competitive Late War fighter. I hope I am wrong but thats my impression (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) .
IMO I think its gonna take either the Yak-9U, or the Yak-3 with the VK107, to be competitive in this ultra late war planeset.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
(http://web.mountain.net/~arringto/pics/yak3.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 03-06-2000).]
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I've been flying the LA-5 as a primary A/C this tour, I enjoy it very much. I've been holding a reasonable K/D ratio with it.
I'd have to disagree with your assessment, Funked, on the poor range, yesterday, I took off from F22, flew to F21, then flew to F8, then flew to F7, when I arrived at F7, I had 1/2 tank of fuel left. No wep was involved at all, so this might have alittle to do with it.
I understand that the LA-7 is alittle lighter A/C than LA-5, which should help it's handling alittle better, combined with that 30 mph faster.
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~ XO
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/190srip.gif)
"Opfer mussen gebracht werden"
— Otto Lilienthal
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-06-2000).]
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Ripsnort, it's got less range than any plane in the set.
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From what little research i have done i've found:
- its faster. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
- its lighter (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
- Has a more powerfull engine (i believe another 200 HP)
- Comes in standard 2*20mm cannons (which is enuf)
Bring it on...
I agree with vermillon, that i dont have the legs to disengage, - just means you'll have to do a little earlier thats all. I have had no problems running from spits in the current LA-5, you just have to pick when to leave. The extra 20-30 mph sounds exactly what i need.
The problem is this:
I want to get better at E fighting, but the pony has rubber bullets, the 190 dont handle so well, the 109 compresses like heck, the 38 has terrible views, which leaves the la-5. which is not bad at eveything.
oh well i guess you cant win em all
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Supreme Mega-Overlord Spatula
"...perfect for serving"
(http://www.spatula.co.nz/aceshigh/spatula_card.jpg)
=1st Airborne Kitchen Utensil Assualt Group=
[This message has been edited by Spatula (edited 03-06-2000).]
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Verm, I am like you...I want my Yak-3 and I want it now...The ultimate stall fighter!! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by DOW_Cleaner (edited 03-06-2000).]
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DOW_Cleaner - Check out the wing loading on the Yak-3 sometime. It's not really very good.
It's still a great plane, but not the best by far at flat turning.
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The third gun would not be signifigantly more weight BTW, the three gun setup used bored out machine guns firing SHVak rounds and weighed less than the standard cannons. The weight I believe, would be no different than the dual with the exception of extra ammo.
I have found no problems out running people and am at a loss to understand the slow comments. The La-5FN has a top speed of around 385 mph on deck. at alt it can get up to 397, and furthermore it can get there fairly fast. Admittedly it's low point is that both the La-5FN and La-7 have no supercharger boost over 8000 ft, however they both should handle extremely well right up to their service ceiling. I think that the La-7 should be the _obvious_ choice for the next russian plane. It is an La-5FN with the extra speed to compete with the fighters present in the arena. Personally I am not holding my breath for the Yak, after seeing the relativly weak resistance to bullets the La fighters have in AH I dread seeing what will happen to a paper tissue Yak plane.
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
(http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/sorrow/sorrow.gif)
[This message has been edited by Sorrow[S=A] (edited 03-06-2000).]
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Okay, the improved performance of the La-7 is the result of several factors that together are greater than the sum of the whole. All the parameters you have stated are correct, more or less (the La-5FN & La-7 have the same exact engine). For those of you who have played WB, do you remember the Yak-3's energy retaining capabilities? Well, the La-7 had equal or better capabilities in this department. All this and the La-7 is faster too, by 20mph. And I kid you not, it is a fact that a La-7 could catch up with a Fw 190A-whatever in a dive.
So, to sum it up, the La-7 is:- equal to or better than a Yak-3 in energy-retaining capabilities.
- faster than a La-5FN by about 20mph.
- of even more potent power loading (3.87lbs/hp compared to the La-5FN's 3.96lbs/hp).
- still tough as, if not tougher than, the La-5FN.
- capable of having three 20mm cannons.
If no one flies it is fine by me, it'll be the best sleeper in the game.
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 03-06-2000).]
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I'll fly it exclusively. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Leonid, you have drag coefficents for the La-7 and the Yak-3? I would love to see them. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I was really suprised when you said that the La7 is as good in E retention (not that it would be bad either I figure both are pretty good), given the greater wing area (similar in shape) and that it is has a radial engine.
Looked back at the La7 performance stats, and one thing really jumped out at me that I didn't notice before. 380mph at SL ?? Wow. No wonder it can catch just about any Fw190 thru the dive and extension.
Not a bad plane, but I still would prefer a Yak-9U since IMO it is more competitive with the current planeset.
I would give up the La7's superior firepower (3 20mm's vs. 1 20mm + x2 12.7mm MG's) and sea level speed (380mph vs 373mph), for Yak's the slightly better power loading (3.64 lbs/hp vs 3.87), better speed at altitude (437mph vs 420mph), slightly better turn times (18.5 secs vs 20 secs), and very importantly the better visibility of the inline enginge (seeing under/around the nose) and full bubble canopy.
I guess the major factor is my style of flying. At altitude I like to be able to engage/disengage to my advantage, and the 437mph (close to pony speed) allows me to do that, where 420mph is barely the same speed as a spitfire.
Hey don't blame me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) Your the one that got me interested in the Yak-9U.
The more I look at them, The more I like late war Russian fighters.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
(http://web.mountain.net/~arringto/pics/yak3.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 03-08-2000).]
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Hey! so do we Verm (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
But that being said, the La-7 would probably be the better plane in this case. It's very fast in it's element, low level fighting and yet has turning ability and e retention to do well at E fighting.
The big thing is the extra boom boom, the extra cannon is what puts the La-7 in the class of the Nik2, P51 and P-38. Let's face it... firepower is winning the battle in the arena and tri 20mm in the nose is a big advantage in both power and the bigger killer, rof to get more bullets flying in snapshots.
The last one (for me anyway) is that the late war Yak was a real paper tissue plane. It had a vulnerable inline motor and to gain it's high speed the Yak had succesivly weaker airframes. I really don't want to fly a plane that makes the old tissue mustang look like a tank. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
(http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/sorrow/sorrow.gif)
[This message has been edited by Sorrow[S=A] (edited 03-08-2000).]
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Hey Verm,
No, you're right. The Yak-9U would probably be the better performing plane of the two. And god forbid the Yak-9UT - two 20mm cannons and a 23mm in the prop! If we ever get the -9UT I might even switch over (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
But if I would have to choose between the La-7 & Yak-9U, my choice would remain the La-7, and the reasons are exactly those given by Sorrow (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
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Sorrow, where do you get the part about the tissue paper Yak's? Not arguing, its just that I have never heard that before and was curious of its source (always on the lookout for good aircraft information (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ). The books I have said that in the later model Yaks (-9U & -3) alot of the weight savings from earlier models come from the use of metal wing spars versus wooden (which were actually stronger) and the use of aluminum skinning versus the use of plywood skinning.
Leonid, yeah the Yak-9UT would be extremely nice. And technically, its nothing more than an armament option, just like the 109's wing pods, or the 30mm's in the 190's. We can hope, we can hope (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
(http://web.mountain.net/~arringto/pics/yak3.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 03-09-2000).]
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Look at your pic of a Yak-3: I don't see much pilot armour there. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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juzz,
Are you talking about the headrest? The headrest in the later Yaks and Lavochkins were 50mm+ bulletproof glass, not metal like in most other air forces. This gave the Soviet fighters a great field of vision.
Verm,
From what information I have gotten the Yakovlev fighters were a bit on the fragile side, maybe on par with the Spitfire. Have you ever seen the rear fuselage of a Yakovlev? It's basically tubular metal construction with a plywood skin. Also, engine damage caused a lot of cockpit fires. I've heard that Yakovlev pilots were often concerned of being burned alive. I'm at work right now, but I think that metal-skinned Yakovlevs never made it to the front, and if so it was very late in the war. I will check on this though to make sure. In any case, in order to damage a Yak-3, you have to hit it, and the Yak-3 was the smallest fighter aircraft in wide-scale production in WWII. Smaller than a Bf 109E.
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 03-09-2000).]
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In any case, in order to damage a Yak-3, you have to hit it, and the Yak-3 was the smallest fighter aircraft in wide-scale production in WWII. Smaller than a Bf 109E.
Ain't that the truth Leonid. Trying to shoot down a Yak-3 in WB's was like trying to shoot down a hummingbird with a 12 gauge duckgun. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
(http://web.mountain.net/~arringto/pics/yak3.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 03-09-2000).]
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Well, most of my information on the Yak is from websites devoted to Russian aircraft and a few sites Leo sent done by a person in the USSR doing a project on the Russian fighters.
http://www.crosswinds.net/~russ_arcticfox/la-7.htm (http://www.crosswinds.net/~russ_arcticfox/la-7.htm)
is a good info site for La-7
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
(http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/sorrow/sorrow.gif)
[This message has been edited by Sorrow[S=A] (edited 03-09-2000).]
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heh, also if the germans ever DO get the Me-262 _I_ want the La-7R...
http://hep2.physics.arizona.edu/~savin/ram/la-7r.html (http://hep2.physics.arizona.edu/~savin/ram/la-7r.html)
Dare you to find a jet powered Yak :P
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
(http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/sorrow/sorrow.gif)
[This message has been edited by Sorrow[S=A] (edited 03-09-2000).]
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Hell Sorrow, I would just like to see a late model VVS anything, at this point. I am starting to think Pyro has totally forgotten about Soviet Fighters (and those of us that like to fly them) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Here's a great book you need to pick up Sorrow since you seem to like the VVS stuff, and in particular the Lavockin Series. This is the most comprehensive book I have seen so far on Soviet fighters.
Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War, Vol. 1
Author: Yefim Gordon Dmitri Khazanov
bn.com Price: $27.96
Retail Price: $39.95
You Save: $11.99 (30%)
In-Stock: Ships 2-3 days
Format: Hardcover, 184pp.
ISBN: 1857800834
Publisher: Motorbooks International, Publishers & Wholesalers, Incorpor
Pub. Date: November 1998
There is a companion book on bombers and attack aircraft that is pretty good too.
I highly recommend the set.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
(http://web.mountain.net/~arringto/pics/yak3.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 03-10-2000).]
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Yep, i have quite few books I would order if I had the money, Leo's old WB page has a good beginner list as well (that book is included there) at http://www.oz.net/~guerrero/wb/books.htm (http://www.oz.net/~guerrero/wb/books.htm)
About the only thing that really turns me off about an La-7vsYak is the La-7 has 16% less range than the La-5FN... Last thing we need for the La in MA is less airtime..
And about the planes.. hmm.. They are awfully busy putting more strat and objects in, I think Russian planes have hit their backburner (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Hopefully the La-7 and Yak are in their "short list" along with the a6m5b.
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Here is a Quick Time 3.0/4.0 compatible video film I made some time ago. It based on the WWII movies (most Russian) and well known in Russia song "Yak - fighter". The file is 7,4 mb for download.
ftp://ftp.diploma.ru/incoming/yak-fighter7.zip (http://ftp://ftp.diploma.ru/incoming/yak-fighter7.zip)
I hope the VVS fans would enjoy it.
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Sorrow, my squaddie, actually the fact that ground vehicles are being implemented before any further Soviet aircraft is very good news to me! Ground vehicles will bring the fight down low, exactly where we VVS-types want it! And what better target than ground vehicles for our Il-2 Sturmovik!
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 03-11-2000).]
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aper!
That was excellent! Ochin horosho!!! And I loved the song too! Great film footage (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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leonid, Komandir
5 GIAP VVS RKKA (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
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Heh... with that ground ack here, the IL-2 would be just what the doctor ordered. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=
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Thx Leonid!
I'm very glad you like it.
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Verm you bastige where did you get this book - I've been hunting it for ages and both Amazon and Barnes&Noble stood me up (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
p.s. B-2 (a late-war 20mm cannon used in La-7s) weighted just 25 kilos firing 96 g rounds at 800 rpm with 800 m/s muzzle velocity. Even with syncronization 3 of those would deliver a lethal punch with no convergence issues to worry about - bring it on!
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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
[This message has been edited by -lynx- (edited 03-14-2000).]
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Really Lynx? Damn I got mine from Barnes&Noble online. Ordered both the fighter and attack/bomber book, and I got them in two days.
Strange, that they are hard to get, because I even saw a set when I was on a trip and was in the King of Prussia Mall, in Philly, a couple of weeks back and saw them in a bookstore there.
Keep looking, they're great.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
(http://web.mountain.net/~arringto/pics/yak3.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 03-14-2000).]
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Thanks Verm!
B&N had them in stock so in 4-6 weeks I shall receive my books (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
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Vermillion,
If you were in Philly you were in my backyard you know. You were in Gene's books in King of Prussia. However next time your in the neighborhood let me know and I'll direct you to the king of all military book stores about 20minutes from the mall. It has every Schiffer publication I've seen in their catalogs as well as a lot of european press that you don't get at B&N.
Later
[This message has been edited by F4UDOA (edited 03-15-2000).]
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Sounds great F4UDOA
I don't get up that way very often, but next time I'm there, I will get in touch.
My Girlfriend lives in Lancaster (I live 7 hours southwest of there) and we just happened to be up in that area shopping and I stopped in Gene's. In fact thats where I picked up that great Ta-152 book I told all of you about.
Always looking for a great military book store. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Of course with as many as I have, I could almost start my own WWII/Aircraft book store (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
(http://web.mountain.net/~arringto/pics/yak3.jpg)
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 03-15-2000).]
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Bring on IL-2...we need flying tank....
I've read somewhere then when German pilots where shooting at IL-2 (sometimes)bullets balanced off. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Just think of people(in AH) crying after they shoot IL-2 for 15min and nothing happens...SWEET!!!
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-aper- Do you have any other movies?
I love that song (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I just couldn't let this thread die, and fall out of the view of our oh so generous producer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) hint hint
<shameless La7 Propaganda Punt>
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"