Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: RTHolmes on September 02, 2009, 04:08:02 AM
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noticed a few massive NOE raids yesterday, and whereas a small raid is defendable at the last minute, 8 sets of buffs with 12 fighter escorts really isnt. A solution occured to me, whadya think?
Max of 8 aircraft NOE per sector, any more than 8 show up on darbar. eg. 9 aircraft NOE shows as 1 aircraft's worth of darbar. 20 shows as a full darbar. Why 8? Its more than enough for a sneaky capture.
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It sometimes sucks that huge NOE raids occur I will admit. For the few times it happens over the course of 24 hours I would say leave well enough alone.
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well placed warblewinds, some fast canon rides, and watching map for blinking bases can blunt noe raids.
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well placed warblewinds, some fast canon rides, and watching map for blinking bases can blunt noe raids.
Just like at P148 tonight :D.
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Sounds a lot like a "solution" in search of a "problem".
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If you want to just bomb outhouses and toolsheds into smithereens with no
opposition then why bother even playing online?
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noticed a few massive NOE raids yesterday, and whereas a small raid is defendable at the last minute, 8 sets of buffs with 12 fighter escorts really isnt. A solution occured to me, whadya think?
Max of 8 aircraft NOE per sector, any more than 8 show up on darbar. eg. 9 aircraft NOE shows as 1 aircraft's worth of darbar. 20 shows as a full darbar. Why 8? Its more than enough for a sneaky capture.
wo wo wo wait up a sec, are you trying to say that because people take advantage of the limited radar capabilities you want to eliminate that factor!?
Are you insane sir?
Really now, NOE captures have been here since the beggining of time, in WWII planes would fly below radar to not be dectected, and now you say...well since its undefendable if its more than 8 planes, we should be able to see the rest because you know...well just because.
Suck it up, its not the enemies fault for taking advantage of limited WWII Technology :devil and using it to their advantage....its sounds alot like what war is, and thats exactly what this is.
NO!! -5
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I rarely fly in noe missions these days,like a hi alt fight. Those who whine about noe being about avoiding the fight, are usually found running from a 1v1 co-alt fight in their 'stang.
you can remove dar restrictions when i can click on a pony to make him explode.
:salute
**EDIT -1**
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The solution for massive NOE raids is vigilance and a hoarde of your own. :rolleyes:
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I've been a part of some of the most massive one's and they are not always successful, so apparently they can be defended against. Maybe it would be better to develop a quick strike NOE defense force.
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i can click on a pony to make him explode.
Now there's a worthwhile request in of itself. Saturday was on and watched a Pony kill a couple guys on the CV (including one of my squaddies) with a bomb, then ran all the way home on the deck just to get his name in lights. Didn't do a shred of fighting otherwise, just dropped his egg and ran RIGHT home because nothing could catch him.
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You dont fly NOE raids "needing" to capture anything. Mostly you fly them to hang out with a group of other enthusiasts you have come to know and banter on a pvt channel. Its really no different then a raid where you come in high and keep piling on. Besides theres normally an enemy con waiting for you in his Typhie with 2,000' on you. :uhoh And if since radar was created air forces have tried to fly in its clutter so there is no real historical block to them.
I dont have much interest in missions anymore unless they use all one country plane sets, or GV sets, that are Historically correct.
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"massive" NOE raids are usually detected because there will always be on that will break the radar base altitude. The more massive it is, the more it is likely to happen.
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The only solution some of our massive noe raids is to take cover and hope the autoack can hold us off :devil Ive been part of some great noe takes and it is alot of fun i see no reason you just cant get in your whirble and hope for the best :noid
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wo wo wo wait up a sec, are you trying to say that because people take advantage of the limited radar capabilities you want to eliminate that factor!?
Are you insane sir?
Really now, NOE captures have been here since the beggining of time, in WWII planes would fly below radar to not be dectected, and now you say...well since its undefendable if its more than 8 planes, we should be able to see the rest because you know...well just because.
Suck it up, its not the enemies fault for taking advantage of limited WWII Technology :devil and using it to their advantage....its sounds alot like what war is, and thats exactly what this is.
NO!! -5
Ploesti....
Low level bombing mission. But hey, someone spotted the hord comming. Imagine that.
The whole "dar bar" explaination has been, "someone spotted the planes flying over". Why wouldn't this also hold true for a hord of low level aircraft, or a cv group parked 5k yards off a base for that matter?
wrongway
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The whole "dar bar" explaination has been, "someone spotted the planes flying over". Why wouldn't this also hold true for a hord of low level aircraft,
In this case, it does.
Base is flashing.
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Last night I spotted a bish darbar a couple sectors away from the nearest knight base which then disappeared. I upped a P47 to investigate this and stayed pretty close to that knight base. Sure enough, an NOE mission showed up. I wrecked four planes before a really fortunate shot took my tailfeathers off. A squadmate had shown up too, and a couple other knights, and the raid utterly failed. Just pay attention to the map and a lot of these things shake themselves out for you.
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Upping against a Noe raid,large or small,win or lose, is some of the most fun you can have in this game.
One of the worst aspects of the LW arenas Imho is having to climb to ridiculous alts to be on equal ground with the dweebs that need the alt advantage.
Then once you have gained an equal footing with the con, you have him run and climb,run and climb.
Next thing ya know you're low on fuel at 25k+ chasing a guy who doesn't want to fight, he just wants easy kills.
Upping against an Noe mission is a great way to have several quick low alt fights.
Cv raids are another great source of entertainment. (as long as the Cv is a reasonable distance from the base)
I'll take Noe or Cv raids over chasing or ducking score boy pick dweebs anyday!
Solutions? We don't need no stinkin solutions!!
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What 1boner said.
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But wait, if there is only 8 per sector, what about those great furballs?
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His solution wasn't to limit planes to 8 per sector. It was to enforce a darbar showing for any planes over 8 in the sector, no matter how low they are flying.
That being said, I agree that nothing really needs to be done about this. I don't think it's a real problem with the game.
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Radar down to the ground! No hiding! :rock
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ok, if you want to defend your base against an NOE raid, then up a fighter and kick some ass!!!!
seriously, ive been in several succesful NOE raids, and every time, only one or two guys come and fight us. the bish is the only country who seems to defend their basses easily (OOORAH!!! GO BISH!!!!!) and can actually succesfully do an NOE mission. just grow a pair and see how fun it is.
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seriously, ive been in several succesful NOE raids, and every time, only one or two guys come and fight us.
The reason for this is simple: Not many players are waiting in the tower and scanning the map and CH2 for indications of a NOE raid.
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What 1boner said.
What E25280 said about what 1boner said. :aok
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The reason for this is simple: Not many players are waiting in the tower and scanning the map and CH2 for indications of a NOE raid.
While I'll admit that I'm in the minority, I DO watch the map as much "as possible".
And I don't wait around in the tower to do it.
I'm usually watching the map while on climb out to get to a decent fighting altitude.
If I spot or hear about a suspected Noe or Cv attack in progress I ask myself a question.
Do I wanna waste 10 minutes climbing to alt only to have to chase some dweeb or be picked off by some score boy diving in from 20k, or do I want to fight?
My score will attest to the amount of times I decide to auger and fight. (please ignore the fact that I am also a lousy pilot)
When I see a base suspiciously flashing I will check it out.
If it turns out to be an Noe, I put up an alert and contact my squadies.
For the most part they will drop what they are doing to join the party!!
As everyone knows, your 1st priority is to kill the goon.
Now its not a base take anymore, just a great low alt furball!!
If they take the base--so what, theres plenty more bases available.
I find it interesting that on a given night, when I go to check out a flashing base, I will for the most part see the same guys over and over again, upping at the base to check it out.
There are map watchers out there, but Lusche is correct that they are the minority.
Maybe we should start some type of secret association! :noid
SAMW. (secret association of map watchers)
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Here's my solution:
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6449/yakandgoon.jpg)
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noticed a few massive NOE raids yesterday, and whereas a small raid is defendable at the last minute, 8 sets of buffs with 12 fighter escorts really isnt. A solution occured to me, whadya think?
Max of 8 aircraft NOE per sector, any more than 8 show up on darbar. eg. 9 aircraft NOE shows as 1 aircraft's worth of darbar. 20 shows as a full darbar. Why 8? Its more than enough for a sneaky capture.
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3773/fattyfail.jpg)
Likes saying no to using strategy.....dumb ass
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There are map watchers out there, but Lusche is correct that they are the minority.
Maybe we should start some type of secret association! :noid
SAMW. (secret association of map watchers)
Hello my name is Way, and I can't stop watching maps...
A member of Mapwatchers Anonymous.
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solution for massive NOE raids
I thought this thread was going to be about the Mk103.
Nevermind.
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Make giant flypaper walls up to 200ft around dar ring.
(http://di1.shopping.com/images1/pi/45/51/33/34293523-300x300-0-0_Walco_Linck_8_Pack_Tat_Fly_Paper_Ribbon_Non_Toxic_.jpg)
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You could just get better spies. :)
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How about if there are more than 8 cons inbound to a field, the base flashes twice as fast?
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You could just get better spies. :)
But the squeakers are the only ones who won't make them suspicious....
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Likes saying no to using strategy.....dumb ass
But the squeakers are the only ones who won't make them suspicious....
Excuse me, "TheAce", who are you? Your first post in this thread was completely out of line, if I was moderating I'd say you deserve a short forum ban and your parents' credit card suspended from this game for 2 weeks. Go play Xbox, son. RTholmes had a suggestion, I think it was a good suggestion, some others disagree. You, though, wait until it's clear the consensus is against his idea, and pile on for internet rep points. Enjoy the 10th grade, buy your school supplies yet?
As for your second post, I'm real tired of squeakers calling other people squeakers.
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How about if there are more than 8 cons inbound to a field, the base flashes twice as fast?
this I like :aok
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Excuse me, "TheAce", who are you? Your first post in this thread was completely out of line, if I was moderating I'd say you deserve a short forum ban and your parents' credit card suspended from this game for 2 weeks. Go play Xbox, son. RTholmes had a suggestion, I think it was a good suggestion, some others disagree. You, though, wait until it's clear the consensus is against his idea, and pile on for internet rep points. Enjoy the 10th grade, buy your school supplies yet?
As for your second post, I'm real tired of squeakers calling other people squeakers.
Wasn't that a bit harsh trotter? I admit he did step over the line (IMO), but not in anyway huge way. A moderator may have a different oppinion, but I will leave it up to them.
Agree to the originol post if I have it correct. BTW, I have a nubeish question: what does NOE mean?
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Excuse me, "TheAce", who are you? Your first post in this thread was completely out of line, if I was moderating I'd say you deserve a short forum ban and your parents' credit card suspended from this game for 2 weeks. Go play Xbox, son. RTholmes had a suggestion, I think it was a good suggestion, some others disagree. You, though, wait until it's clear the consensus is against his idea, and pile on for internet rep points. Enjoy the 10th grade, buy your school supplies yet?
As for your second post, I'm real tired of squeakers calling other people squeakers.
Hehe, I may have come off a bit "wrong," college count as a squeaker? Yes I agree with you that I did wait for his idea to be "boo'ed." But, this is a combat simulator as I understand, and some people like to use "strategies" (ever heard of it?). Saying that to big of a raid using a strategie to avoid radar is like saying no massive bombing runs because they will knock out an enemy base. Doesn't make sense does it? So lets not punish those who actually use the brain they were given.
Agree to the originol post if I have it correct. BTW, I have a nubeish question: what does NOE mean?
NOE means to fly under radar below 200 feet where the terrain interferes with the radar.
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The reason I get into NOE missions is to go full throttle at 100 feet! Nothing like scaring the wildlife and avoiding terrain at 250 knots :x
Who cares if you get the capture!
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NOE means to fly under radar below 200 feet where the terrain interferes with the radar.
500
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Wasn't that a bit harsh trotter? I admit he did step over the line (IMO), but not in anyway huge way. A moderator may have a different oppinion, but I will leave it up to them.
Agree to the originol post if I have it correct. BTW, I have a nubeish question: what does NOE mean?
Trotter is one of the nicer people you can come across on the bbs. If you tick him off, well...you had it coming.
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This is wishlist not training forum's you put thing's you want on this forum if your gunna give advice go put it in help/training but yes I kinda like this idea but limbo0 has been able to do NOE mission's with like 20 guys in them.
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This is wishlist not training forum's you put thing's you want on this forum if your gunna give advice go put it in help/training but yes I kinda like this idea but limbo0 has been able to do NOE mission's with like 20 guy's in them.
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As for your second post, I'm real tired of squeakers calling other people squeakers.
Tell me about it, it is quite annoying, not pointing fingers at any one in particular...
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NOE missions are easy to fix and still allow them to continue.
My idea would be;
1. Set radar detection at 100' altitude instead of 500' like it is now. Or perhaps decrease the altitude required to maintain NOE status the closer you approach an enemy airfield, vbase, or strategic target.
2. Disable to use of auto level of any kind under 500 feet, that also includes setting auto climb to max speed to mimic auto level. You want to fly NOE, go ahead and do at least a little work.
3. Enable zone ENY. Make the tolerances much higher than normal ENY, so unless you're attacking a base within 50 miles of at least a few enemy airplanes you will be stuck in early war aircraft.
I feel a lot of the time missions are more interested in avoiding conflict than truly interacting with other people online.
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How about if there are more than 8 cons inbound to a field, the base flashes twice as fast?
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/215/550016866_3c051ef9b7.jpg?v=0)
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Tell me about it, it is quite annoying, not pointing fingers at any one in particular...
As for your second post, I'm real tired of squeakers calling other people squeakers.
Alright so I'm a squeaker now aye.....only makes sense that you guys are what? 40-50 years old? and playing an online game "dis'ing" those who are younger and less experienced than you are.
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Radar down to the ground! No hiding! :rock
I agree, DAR down to the ground anyway. The whole purpose of having the thing is to show you "there be plenny' bad guys there" so people can find fights, why leave a loophole?
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I don't have a problem with NOE's. They have their "tactical" place in the game, but using numbers over 5-8 guys is just dweebish.
Again, it's the "players" that are going to cause a problem if something isn't done. Hordes became a problem and we got ENY and split arenas. If the dweeb continue to use 30 guys in an NOE steps will be taken to stop it. Maybe dar will go all the way to the ground inside a dar ring, maybe it will be dropped to 100' world wide. Who knows, but it they continue to abuse it, then EVERYONE will loose it. Just saying.
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I don't have a problem with NOE's. They have their "tactical" place in the game, but using numbers over 5-8 guys is just dweebish.
thats where im coming from :aok
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[quote author=Delirium link=topic=273053.msg3419499#msg3419499 date=1252129494
I feel a lot of the time missions are more interested in avoiding conflict than truly interacting with other people online.
[/quote]
Ya mean like guys who incessantly fly "fighters" at ridiculous altitudes to have an "advantage"?
Ya mean like guys who "gun and run"?
Ya mean like guys who vulch de-acked bases they have no intention of taking?
Ya mean like guys who spawn camp?
I think a good sized Noe mission will create more fights than all of the above, combined!
Another name for an Noe mission of ANY size is called a "surprise attack".
I enjoy defending against them, but thats just me talking, different strokes I guess. :salute
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Ya mean like guys who incessantly fly "fighters" at ridiculous altitudes to have an "advantage"?
I have hardly ever seen anyone at "ridiculous" altitudes in MAs. I've hardly ever seen anyone at 20K or above. If I have a complaint about the MA, it is that the combat is invariably ridiculously LOW compared to the real war, making some fighters what weren't as hot in the war look great and not letting some really great fighters fly where they shine. And the really thin air is more of a challenge to maneuver in. If someone actually prefers all of the the fighting to happen at altitudes where there isn't enough room below you to do a split-S, fine, but it isn't particularly realistic, and certainly does give them any sort of moral high ground.
Also, any altitude advantage beyond about 5K is wasted, if they have more heigth advantage than that their problem will be keeping speed under control in the attack. The bandit at 20K while you are at 6K is actually LESS dangerous than the one at 9K.
Ya mean like guys who "gun and run"?
Since the term "gun and run" could be used to describe perhaps the vast majority of kills in WWII, and is a rational tactic for dealing with the multi-bandit chaos of the MA, I don't have a real problem with it. Generally those who complain about "runners" are those who have traded speed for maneuverability in their ride preference and who are frustrated when vastly poorer-turning but faster fighters refuse to give them easy kills. They could switch to a D9 and almost never be out-run by anything, but then their ACM problems would be more complicated than managing the throttle while turning in-plane for a tracking shot. So I suppose it is preferable to complain about "runners" on the forum.
I think a good sized Noe mission will create more fights than all of the above, combined!
Another name for an Noe mission of ANY size is called a "surprise attack".
I enjoy defending against them, but thats just me talking, different strokes I guess. :salute
The whole purpose of NOE missions is to avoid fights. A dozen 110s and a goon at treetop is level is ridiculous if you actually expect to encounter numerically equal opposition. Nor are NOEs particularly realistic, they are there to take great advantage of the fact that there are not actually citizens/ground personnel who would be fairly likely to report a dozen enemy A/C coming over at treetop level.
Of COURSE you like defending against them...if they are spotted in time they are easy meat. But the whole purpose is to avoid being spotted and having to do combat with other players.
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Apparantly you missed my point.
All of the things I listed (including the noe) are alike in one major way.
They give you an advantage.
Noes may or may not be "historically correct", but how many other things in this game are?
I find it funny that most of the guys who complain about Noes are nowhere to be found when one is announced.
I assume that they're usually busy doing something else to drop what they're doing to participate.
And thats fine.
Then why are they complaining about it?
And for the ones that do participate and still complain, I'll assume that either they don't like dying or they don't like losing bases. Or both.
I guess we have a difference in opinon on this.
But who's to say which is right?
Let me guess-------you. :salute
And you don't see alot of guys at 20k??
No matter what altitude I climb to, I will inevitably run across the ever present 190, P-51 etc that is higher. Right or wrong, they are there. Every night.
And I know how to avoid their incessent buzzing. Again that wasn't my point. They are looking for the easy way out, avoiding actually having to fight.
Most guys in the game describe that as "flying smart", I guess you could say that Noes are "attacking smart". The easiest "safest" way to achieve your objective.
Gun and run describes a "vast majority" of the kills in WW2. Agreed.
But this isn't WW2, according to you and many others in here (including myself) "Its about the fight" yet for the most part, that doesn't seem to be the case.
Its all about the kill, no matter how you can get it.
Again, we disagree on most if not all of this, and thats fine.
But I think its another case of the pot calling the kettle black.
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Sorry, but now that I KNOW what NOE means (I had a pretty good idea), and how it would apply to the originol post, I dissagree. It is the same as knocking out someones dar. Next someone will suggest that if dar is down then anymore than 8 planes shows up on the destroyed radar.
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Apparantly you missed my point.
And you don't see alot of guys at 20k??
No matter what altitude I climb to, I will inevitably run across the ever present 190, P-51 etc that is higher. Right or wrong, they are there. Every night.
I see almost none. Occasionally a big buff headquarter raid with a few escorts will be that higher or higher. Mostly not. Such planes as the Jug almost never get to show off their strong suite in the MA.
So a higher, faster is unkillable aye? ;)
And I know how to avoid their incessent buzzing. Again that wasn't my point. They are looking for the easy way out, avoiding actually having to fight.
Trying to get a kill while *not* getting bogged down in a way that gets you ganged to death by a crowd is rarely easy.
Methinks you may have a rather twisted definition of "actually fight" going on.
Gun and run describes a "vast majority" of the kills in WW2. Agreed.
But this isn't WW2, according to you and many others in here (including myself) "Its about the fight" yet for the most part, that doesn't seem to be the case.
You have a very narrow-minded definition of the "fight" as the term applies to MA. Do you expect a multi-bandit environment to be about fair, similar-plane 1v1s? If so, you will be disappointed. Do you think it is reasonable to expect players in faster planes to turn with vastly more maneuverable planes on their six? Do you think everyone who declines to get into a stall fight 50' off the deck is suffering from some sort of video game cowardice, rather than say, thinking about say, the half dozen OTHER bandits who are coming into range at that moment?
No, saying it is "about the fight" simply means that it is about trying to engage and kill other manned planes and vehicles without the same happening to you. NOEing is about skipping this part and shooting down buildings. Totally different objectives.
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I see almost none. Occasionally a big buff headquarter raid with a few escorts will be that higher or higher. Mostly not. Such planes as the Jug almost never get to show off their strong suite in the MA.
So a higher, faster is unkillable aye? ;)
Trying to get a kill while *not* getting bogged down in a way that gets you ganged to death by a crowd is rarely easy.
Methinks you may have a rather twisted definition of "actually fight" going on.
You have a very narrow-minded definition of the "fight" as the term applies to MA. Do you expect a multi-bandit environment to be about fair, similar-plane 1v1s? If so, you will be disappointed. Do you think it is reasonable to expect players in faster planes to turn with vastly more maneuverable planes on their six? Do you think everyone who declines to get into a stall fight 50' off the deck is suffering from some sort of video game cowardice, rather than say, thinking about say, the half dozen OTHER bandits who are coming into range at that moment?
No, saying it is "about the fight" simply means that it is about trying to engage and kill other manned planes and vehicles without the same happening to you. NOEing is about skipping this part and shooting down buildings. Totally different objectives.
We look at this argument differently, neither will convice the other to see his point of view. :salute
Btw, your sig. is hysterical.
Black Adder??