Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Pappy on March 13, 2000, 06:33:00 PM
-
Take a guess at the fastest prop driven plane of WWII, and no peeking in the Jane's book niether. No its not the mustang and that ME262 doesn't have a prop, the fake one they put on while it was on the ground doesn't count. Post yer guesses here and we might see it modled here in some earlier variant.
-
P-47J (supposedly over 500 mph at 34k or something)
-
I am going to guess that you are referring to `Production' aircraft, e.g., more then a few built. As such, I'm wavering between the Yak-3(9), Spitfire (we already have this..Spiteful and M.B. 5 Don't count) and Tempest. I will say the Yak.
-
P-47-M for an actually "produced beyond prototype" aircraft.
-Westy
-
I Hope it's the one I'm in..... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
I'll have a punt on the Hawker Fury - did it see WWII though ?????
------------------
skeet - out
Aces High - Fight Stimulator
-
XP-47J like wells already said.
The XP-47J (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_9.html) was a completely new airframe and not a conversion of an existing P-47D. The serial number was 43-46952. The XP-47J flew for the first time on November 26, 1943. On August 4, 1944, it attained a speed of 504 mph in level fight, becoming the first propeller-driven fighter to exceed 500 mph.
-
Clearly the Fairey Fulmar!
------------------
Mike "FunkedUp" Waltz
Aces High Instructor Corps
Squadron Leader, 308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
-
P47 it is and I think the book says the L model, and it was production and in service at the end of the war. Wouldn't mind seeing some of the others mentioned though.
-
Hello Pappy- I would have said De Havilland Hornet-It was adopted for service but it was to late to see action. It made 485 mph its first trial flights. It had two Merlin 130/131 2030hp engines. Not bad for a twin.
Its first flight was on 28 July 1944.
-
In production and service? Then the fastest Thunderbolt was the P-47M at 470mph. But then there's the P-51H, which could do 487mph.
-
spit 14 with 150 octance gas ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
gimmie gimmie !!!
------------------
Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
If nothing makes you happier then burning 109 - come and join us - we're looking for few good men
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
-
Originally posted by Pappy:
Take a guess at the fastest prop driven plane of WWII, and no peeking in the Jane's book niether. No its not the mustang and that ME262 doesn't have a prop, the fake one they put on while it was on the ground doesn't count. Post yer guesses here and we might see it modled here in some earlier variant.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif) The F8F Tigercat(?) Came in at the very end of the war and saw service in Korean Conflict.
------------------
Tern
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
-
Tern,
Actually F8F never fired a shot in USN markings. But it did see heavy combat in
Indo China and Veitnam with the French.
Also It was never a top end speed deamon while in service either. Production models never really exceeded the 450mph barrier due to the PW-R2800 critical altitude being around 20k to 25k. The real speed burners were the high alt and thin air supercharged engines I.E. P-47M, P-51H, TA-152 types.
Daryl Greenamyers modified Rare Bare did set a world speed record for props at 500+mph in 1969 however. There was also a limited number
of F4U-3 with a supercharged engine that could obtain 480MPH at 42K. But the need for a super high alt interceptor was not need in favor of the F4U-4.
Thanks F4UDOA
King of all F4U trivia (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
-
How about this fastest planes at
sea level
5000 ft - 10000 ft
10000 ft - 15000 ft
15000 ft - 20000 ft
20000 ft - 30000 ft
30000 ft - 35000 ft
35000 ft +
Criteria for entry (1) a combat engagement (2)50 produced (3) active squadron equipped with plane.
That would be pretty comprehensive (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Lets see how much this board really knows (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
All reference came from Jane's WWII Aircraft book not my opinion, they did say P47 it may have been the M but I think it said L? I will check it out and get back. At any rate I will get the numbers and post back.
-
Based on numbers I can find...
Sea Level: Spitfire FR.XIVe/150 Octane 400mph+ @ S/L
5-10k: Tempest Mk.V 416mph @ 4.6k
10-15k: Tempest Mk.V ???
15-20k: F4U-4 440-450mph @ 16-20k
20-25k: Spitfire PR.XIX ???
25-30k: Spitfire PR.XIX 460mph @ 26k
30-35k: P-47M 470mph @ 30k
35k+: Ta 152H 472mph @ 41k
Maybe one of the Yaks is fastest at 10k or so, I dunno. And there's the figure for Me 109K doing 450mph+ @ 20k too.
-
If I am right,
The last spitfire version (mark 24 i think) had a 6 bladed prop that produced an amazing amount speed. But on the ground it handled like Sh*t
-
If you go into Duxford the first plane you see is a silver 5-bladed spit 24 - it's top speed is listed 476 or 486mph - can't remember which (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The most important thing is it looks stunning.
No idea about the top speed of a six bladed version.
P.S. Good stuff juzz (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
Spitfire F.21, 6 blades, limited to 470 m/h due to aileron problems at high speed. Entered service in march 1945, with the 91 Squadron of West Malling.
-
P47D-2300hp chryslerXIV-2220 top speed 491.
P47J-2800hp Prattwhitney-R2800 top speed 504.
Hawker Sea FuryIV-2400hp Bristol Centaurus-XVIII top speed 460.
Spitfire H.F.IX-2050hp Packard built Merlin-70 top speed 416.
P38L-2950hp Two Allison V-1710-111\113V-12 top speed 414.
Heres some but the J variant was a cooker, all top speeds are varied altitudes for best performance.
-
F8F = Bearcat
F7F = Tigercat
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
If were talking about hawker fury's here something intresting :-
=================================
The Sabre VII-powered Fury was perhaps
the fastest piston-engine aircraft ever built by Hawker, possessing a maximum
speed of 485 mph at 18,500 feet and 457
mph at 8000 feet. Range with two drop
tanks was 1480 miles. Initial climb rate
was 5240 feet, and an altitude of 24,000 feet could be attained in 6 minutes.
Service ceiling was 41,500 feet.
Weights were 9350 lbs empty, 12,130 lbs loaded. Armament consisted of four
20-mm Hispano Mk. V cannon in the
wings.
===================================
yes 457mph at 8,000ft and if you wondering about the engine :-
==================================
3055 hp Napier Sabre VII twenty-four-cylinder liquid-cooled horizontal-H
engine.
==================================
Of course this was no where near making the war.
-
Yeah I know (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I have seen that silver bladed spit on many occasions. It really is stunning (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
1st LT Chris "B-Town" Bradbury
332nd Flying Mongrels
Guard Dog's FL
-
Wouldn't silver propeller blades be kind of heavy, not to mention expensive? I'm guessing they were polished aluminum or stainless steel.
-
Silver prop blades, hehehe - stop being silly. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
Of course it's not silver ! The plane is not painted it's all highly polished metal (which ever metal that is) which gives it a silver colour (translation : color)- which is real nice.
-
Hmm I thought the Do 335 Pfeil was the fastest prop plane of the war? Anyone got the numbers on this one?
Sascha
------------------
Jagdgeschwader 77 "Herz As!"
-
Hmm, I'd go with a p47-M prototype, but then again here's one nobody has mentioned so far:
Ca 15 kangaroo (australian plane) It looks similar to a p51, but uses a griffon engine. I'm going purely off memory, but I believe it achieved 505 mph in level flight during test runs. (Only 1 built as far as I know.)
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
-
Mosquito or typhoon for sure.
Crabofix, "fish can be bought fresh"
Svenska Kungliga Flygvapnet
-
Originally posted by Sascha JG 77:
Hmm I thought the Do 335 Pfeil was the fastest prop plane of the war? Anyone got the numbers on this one?
The 'Arrow' was fast but I don't think the fastest. I have it listed at 477mph at 21,000ft. Besides I don't think it was engaged in any fight before the end of the war, although available in limited numbers.
heh, on another note, while looking at its data I see it got quite an impressing landing run. If it used its front airscrews reversible pitch ability it had a landing run of 580 yards. Quite nice for a aircraft weighing more than 21,000 lbs (2/3 of an empty B17)
------------------
Ltn. Snefens
RO, Lentolaivue 34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
-
Warning! Warning! Uberplane alert!!
Martin-Baker M.B.5
Four 20-mm British Hispano Mk. II cannon in the wings. Maximum speed was 395 mph at sea level, 425 mph at 6000 feet, 460 mph at 20,000 feet. Initial climb rate was 3800 feet/minutes. Climb rate at 7000 feet was 4000 feet/minute. The airplane could climb to 20,000 feet in 6.5 minutes, and could reach 34,000 feet in 15 minutes. Service ceiling 40,000 feet. Weights were 9233 lbs empty, 11,000 lbs normal loaded. Wing area was 262.64 square feet.
North American P-51H Mustang
Powered by a 2218 hp Packard V-1560-9 Merlin twelve-cylinder V-type liquid cooled engine. Armed with 6 0.50-inch machine guns, plus provisions for two 500-pound or 1000-pound bombs. 444 mph at 5000 feet, 463 mph at 15,000 feet, 487 mph at 25,000 feet. Climb to 5000 feet in 1.5 minutes, to 15,000 feet in 5 minutes. Service ceiling was 41,600 feet. 6585 lbs empty, 9500 lbs normal loaded. Range was 755 miles (clean). Wing area was 235 sq ft.
Republic P-47M Thunderbolt
Powered by a 2800 hp Pratt & Whitney R-2800-57 18-cylinder air-cooled radial. Armed with six or eight 0.50-inch machine guns in the wings. Maximum speed of 400 mph at 10,000 feet, 453 mph at 25,000 feet, 470 mph at 30,000 feet. 3500 ft/min initial climb at 5000 feet. Range was 560 miles (clean). Weights were 10,423 pounds empty, 13,275 lbs normal loaded. Wing area was 322 square feet.
Republic XP-47J Thunderbolt
Powered by a 2800 hp Pratt & Whitney R-2800-57 18-cylinder air-cooled radial. Armed with six 0.50-inch machine guns in the wings. Maximum speed of 507 mph at 34,300 feet. Climb to 15,000 feet in 4.5 minutes. Service ceiling was 45,000 feet. Range was 1070 miles at economical cruising speed. Weights were 9663 pounds empty, 12,400 lbs normal loaded. Wing area was 300 square feet.
Republic XP-72
Powered by a 3450 hp Pratt & Whitney R-4360-13 Wasp Major 28-cylinder air-cooled radial. Armed with six 0.50-inch machine guns in the wings, plus two 1000-lb bombs. Maximum speed of 490 mph at 25,000 feet. Initial climb rate was 5280 ft/min, and could reach 15,000 feet in 3.5 minutes. Range was 1200 miles at economical cruising speed of 300 mph. Service ceiling was 42,000 feet. Weights were 11,476 pounds empty, 14,433 lbs normal loaded. Wing area was 300 square feet.
Focke-Wulf Ta 152C-3
Powered by a Daimler-Benz DB 603L twelve-cylinder inverted-Vee liquid cooled engine which could be boosted by MW 50 (methanol/water) injection to give a maximum power output of 2100 hp. Armed with one engine-mounted 30-mm MK 103 and four 20-mm MG 151 cannon (2 in wing roots, two in upper fuselage deck). Maximum speed was 339 mph at sea level, 439 mph at 37,000 feet, 463 mph at 34,000 feet with MW 50 boost. Initial climb rate was 3050 feet/minute. Service ceiling was 40,350 feet. Range was 745 miles at 372 mph at 32,800 feet. Weights were 9058 lbs empty, 11,025 lbs normal loaded. Wing area was 216 square feet.
Messerschmitt Bf 109K-4
Powered by a Daimler-Benz DB 605 ASCM/DCM twelve-cylinder inverted-Vee liquid cooled engine which could be boosted by MW 50 injection to give a maximum power output of 2000 hp for takeoff. Armed with one engine-mounted 30-mm MK 108 (or MK 103) cannon and two 13-mm MG 131 machineguns in upper fuselage deck. Maximum speed was 377 mph at sea level, 452 mph at 19,685 feet Initial climb rate was 4823 feet/minute. Service ceiling was 42,000 feet. Range was 355 miles. Weight was 7438 lbs normal loaded. Wing area was 174.38 square feet.
Supermarine Spitfire Mk. 21
Powered by 2050 hp Rolls-Royce Griffon 61 twelve-cylinder Vee liquid-cooled engine. Armed with four 20-mm Hispano Mk. II cannon in the wings plus one 500-lb and two 250-lb bombs. Maximum speed was 420 mph at 12,000 feet and 454 mph at 26,000 feet. Could climb to 20,000 feet in 8 minutes. Range with maximum internal fuel was 880 miles. Weights were 6900 lbs empty, 9200 lbs maximum loaded. Wing area was 244 square feet.
Supermarine Spiteful
Powered by 2375 hp Rolls-Royce Griffon 69 twelve-cylinder Vee liquid-cooled engine. Armed with four 20-mm Hispano Mk. V cannon in the wings. Maximum speed was 409 mph at sea level, 437 mph at 5500 feet and 483 mph at 26,000 feet. Initial climb rate was 4828 ft/min. Could climb to 20,000 feet in 4.9 minutes. Range with maximum internal fuel was 564 miles. Weights were 7350 lbs empty, 9950 lbs maximum loaded. Wing area was 210 square feet.
Hawker Tempest Mk. II
Powered by 2520 hp Bristol Centaurus V eighteen-cylinder air-cooled radial. Armed with four 20-mm Hispano Mk. V cannon plus two 1000-lb bombs. Maximum speed was 440 mph at 15,900 feet, 417 mph at 5000 feet. Range was 775 miles with maximum internal fuel. Initial climb rate was 4520 ft/min. An altitude of 20,000 feet could be reached in 5.6 minutes. Service ceiling was 37,000 feet. Weights were 9300 pounds empty, 11,800 pounds loaded. Wing area was 303.7 square feet.
Hawker Tempest Mk. V
Powered by a 2200 hp Napier Sabre IIB 24-cylinder horizontal-H liquid-cooled engine. Armed with four 20-mm Hispano Mk. V cannon plus two 1000-lb bombs. Maximum speed was 392 mph at sea level, 416 mph at 4600 feet, 435 mph at 17,000 feet. Range was 820 miles with maximum internal fuel. Initial climb rate was 4700 ft/min. An altitude of 20,000 feet could be reached in 6.1 minutes. Service ceiling was 36,000 feet. Weights were 9250 pounds empty, 11,400 pounds loaded. Wing area was 302 square feet.
Hawker Fury
Powered by a 3055 hp Napier Sabre VII 24-cylinder horizontal-H liquid-cooled engine. Armed with four 20-mm Hispano Mk. V cannon plus two 1000-lb bombs. Maximum speed was 457 mph at 8000 feet, 485 mph at 18,500 feet. Range was 1480 miles with two 45 Imp gall drop tanks. Initial climb rate was 5240 ft/min. An altitude of 24,000 feet could be reached in 6 minutes. Service ceiling was 41,500 feet. Weights were 9350 pounds empty, 12,120 pounds loaded. Wing area was 284.5 square feet.
Grumman F8F-1 Bearcat
Powered by a 2100 hp Pratt & Whitney R-2800-34W eighteen-cylinder radial air-cooled engine. Armed with four 0.5-in machine guns. Maximum speed was 382 mph at sea level, 421 mph at 19,700 feet. Initial climb rate was 4570 feet/minute. Service ceiling was 38,700 feet. Weights were 7070 lbs empty, 9836 lbs normal loaded. Wing area was 244 square feet.
North American XP-82 Twin Mustang
Powered by two 1860 hp Packard Merlin V-1650-23/25 twelve-cylinder Vee liquid-cooled engines. Armed with six 0.50-in machine guns in center wing, plus two 2000-lb or four 1000-lb bombs. Maximum speed was 482 mph at 25,100 feet. Range was 1390 miles. Could climb to 20,000 feet in 7 minutes. Service ceiling was 41,600 feet. Weights were 13,405 lbs empty, 19,100 lbs normal loaded. Wing area was 408 square feet.
Goodyear F2G-1
Powered by a 3000 hp Pratt and Whitney R-4360-4 Wasp Major 28-cylinder radial air-cooled engine. Armed with four 0.50-in machine guns in the wing, plus two 1000-lb or two 1600-lb bombs. Maximum speed was 399 mph at sea level, 431 mph at 16,400 feet. Range was 1190 miles. Initial climb rate was 4400 feet/min. Service ceiling was 38,800 feet. Weights were 10,249 lbs empty, 13,346 lbs normal loaded. Wing area was 314 square feet.
-
11 Do-335 -A1 were delivered to the army, with ~475 mph@21K.
The reconaissonce variant, the Do-335 -A4 reached (without weapons) 490 Mph @ 21K
Dornier had some nice projects at the end of the war, though i never heard that a real plane was build.
Do P.247.6 :Jumo 213T 1*2000PS , engine in the fuselage behind the pilot, propeller at the end, for jabo. new "arrow" wing design. Maxspeed ~518 Mph@ 0ft
Do. P.252/1 : 2* jumo 213J 2*1740Ps, both engines in the fuselage behind the pilot, and two propeller at the end (one after the other). Maxspeed ~560Mph@23K
-
And about 20 P-82A's were delivered to the USAAF before the end of the war.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Westy
(cod, I love this uber plane stuff. Love the early stuff too btw)
-
Originally posted by juzz:
Warning! Warning! Uberplane alert!!
Martin-Baker M.B.5
Ill take em all...but this one first..eversince I saw the write up in planes of fame I loved this plane.
(martin wanted 6 20s in it....)
------------------
Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
-
The fastest prop aircraft that was actually used in significant numbers was, to my knowledge, the Bf-109K at 452. The fastest allied in number was the Spifire Mk XIV at 448. Altitude of course changes everything.
All the talk of experimental or never used-too late to see action stuff is kinda silly IMHO.
Sisu
-
Karnak, I agree that all this talk of experimental, very small production, not actually in the war aircraft is silly if we stick to the original topic (ie no fantasy aircraft).
But the Republic P-47N, which was widely used in the Pacific in 1944-45 (1,667 built), was faster than both the Bf109K4 at 452 mph (700 built)and the Spitfire XIV at 448 mph (975 built).
It could reach 463mph.
Can any of the aircraft that people have mentioned, that actually served in the war, had over 500 built, and was piston/propellor engined, go faster than that?
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Desperately trying to figure out why Kamikaze Pilots wore helmets"
-
Vermillion, off topic, but I note that by our qualifications, we would have eliminated the F4U-1C which is in the sim. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
By the way, kamikaze pilots wore helmets to increase their chances of reaching the target.
Sisu
-
However, we open the door for the F4U-4! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4U-4.html (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4U-4.html)
-Westy
-
Bloom25 was refering to this little beastie:
(http://www.ozemail.com.au/~peril/wbraaf/aircraft/CA15.gif)
Only 1 example of the CA-15 was ever built before the jet age caught up with the CAC builders. It would have been an outstanding fighter, infact the fastest piston engined fighter of all time with a top speed of 502.2mph in a speed test over Melbourne. She was designed as a long range fighter for the RAAF and first flew in march of 1946. Originally designed with the Pratt and Whitney R-2800 radial engine in mind, the design had to be changed in 1944 when the R-2800 was no longer being made available to the RAAF. Instead the Griffin 61 V12 engine (which was later found to perfectly suite this airframe) was chosen as a replacement untill the new Griffon 120 V-12 was made available to the RAAF. This change plus offical disinterest delayed the production of the CA-15 which could have entered service in 1944/45. The CA-15 Kangaroo was an outstanding aircraft and proved that australian designers could design aircraft to world standards.
-
oops - double post.
[This message has been edited by -rkat- (edited 03-30-2000).]
-
FW190-TKA
-
Juzz you forgot Ta 152H which was the production version. Ta 152C was prototype only. H had higher maximum speed anyways...
Karnak, Ta 152, P-47M, P-47N were hardly "experimental or never used-too late to see action stuff". Both were in production and in service with combat units by the end of the war.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 04-03-2000).]
-
I stole all that off a webpage on the M.B.5 - like I would type all that out myself? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-
LOL!
-
Rkat, does that mean I'm right!?! WOOHOO! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I knew the plane was fast, but I wouldn't have thought it to be the "fastest piston engined fighter of all time" though. (Do you know if that was with guns and ammo, or what exactly were the conditions of the test.)
Nice pic btw.
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
-
Bzzttt.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Sorry guys, one prototype flown in 1946 doesn't meet the subject parameters.
Must have flown in combat and had significant numbers produced.
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
Carpe Jugulum
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
-
It's too ugly anyways. Almost as ugly as a Corsair!
-
Do I at least get 50% credit??? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Ok, I'll go for P47-M as fastest production fighter of WWII. (Hey, the ME 163 had a prop on it too ... of course it was for power generation. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) )
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
The Corsair is beautiful ... unless it's on your 6!