Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: F4UDOA on May 14, 2001, 09:10:00 AM
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Just though I would bring up the FM issue for anyone who thinks the AH FM's are "overmodeled". Please just watch the Thunderbolts against the Reich special on the History channel.
The one shot at the end where the camera is following a P-47 through a dive then pullout into a a spiral climb. Holey toejam!!! It looked like an F-16!! If you watch this you will never think they are overmodeled again, maybe undermodelled though, hehe.
Later
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Many of the operational P-47s had some common field modifications done to them. The Pratt & Whitney reps toured the operational Jug squadrons and showed the mechanics how to increase the waste gate pressures effectively increasing the boost significantly over stock. This one done following some tests P&W had done which showed that the RR Double Wasp radial version in the Jug was incredibly tough, and could handle much higher boost pressures than they originally thought.
Our Jugs don't have this modification. A D model jug with a paddle blade prop and pulling over 70" WG of boost certainly would perform much better in climb and in the vertical than the stock versions we have here in AH. Basically, when we get a P-27-M, you'll see something that performs more like many of the accounts you see quoted about Jugs in WWII. Those modified Jugs were some of the fastest birds over europe, with reports that they were capable of up to 500 Mph in level flight at altitude.
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://lephturn.webhop.net) for AH articles and training info!
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Lephturn,
Did you see the special?? It would bring tears to your eyes. You had to see the maneuvering and E-retention. It was just ballistic. And the quality of the color was as good as any WW2 footage I have ever seen. I thought I was watching an airshow, not actual WW2 footage.
Just amazing!
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Jeez! I fell asleep when I got in from work last night and missed that program! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Don't suppose any of you taped it or could make me a copy of it, could ya?
You're exactly right, Lephturn, most of the Jugs were "tweaked" in the field, to increase performance and increase their survivability in combat. I regularly access a website dedicated to Jug lovers, and the topic of in field mods has come up several times......in each case, the answers reflected that Jugs, and almost all American aircraft for that matter, were gone over by the crewchiefs and company reps almost from the minute they hit the forward areas, and the number of "stock" Thunderbolts was actually pretty small. So, now the question: Does AH accurately model what American pilots flew during WWII?
Given the wide range of tweaks/mods done to them, I would have to say "No", but take nothing away from HTC's efforts. Finding someone to put out a list of mods performed on the planes to "ready" them for combat would probably make their eyes pop out of their heads. I asked once on the Jug website for a relative number of planes that were modified, and got no response, so "most" could be anywhere from 51% to 99%.
It would also cause a near riot with supporters of the other AH aircraft. Seeing the P-47 given a boost to be more representative of the RL birds would cause each plane's supporters to inundate HTC with claims of mods done infield to their particular favorite plane, and then the arguments and flamewars would REALLY get going.
I do wish, just as a possible idea for HT to consider, that field mods be offered on something of a perk basis. You want the souped up/tweaked bird, you gotta spend points to get them and be able to use them. Want a paddle-blade prop and overboosted engine on the Jug? Sure! Pop off 8 perk points for the prop and 7 for the extra boost and take to the skies, pardner! That would be the only fair way to include any field mods to any aircraft in the AH inventory.......make it available, but only for a price. Just my opinion, of course. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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That P&W must be quiet. Notice how one of the pilots said he could hear cannon fire from the guy trying to bounce him?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Another couple of neat examples of neat tweaking done during the war are:
-Application of normal shoe polish to aircraft finishes that acted as a wax thereby further reducing drag and increasing speed.
-Numerous modifications done to B-17 gun positions, either adding faux guns or upping those of caliber.
-Changes of canopy framing of numerous P-38's to improve visibility.
The list goes on adfinitum, but the point being that it is impossible to offer that in this game unless done on a perk basis.
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Bodhi
-*Armageddon*-
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aye, not to mention the 6 .50 cal and 4 20mm armed p-38's ...yum!!!
Too bad the P-38K didnt go into production, it used the P-47's props and more powerful engine. damn pencilnecks.. may they burn in hell for that! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
Seeing the special reminded me of the CFS2 terrain... wow its amazing the similarity. The tracer fire from the jugs in the special seemed to bu much higher than you see in AH... it was like watching a stream of shiny tracers.. in AH its like a pepper gun. Perhaps the bullet trails are a bit overdone? dunno. Sure was fun watching those horses get their wings heehee.
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jig, i was witness to a live fire at Avon park Fla, where we watched F-16s straff the pit from over a mile away. We saw the smoke from the gun, then a second later the deafening sound. It was incredible. I never thought it would sound that loud at that distance.
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The Ostwind crew should suffer supression from the 37mm's report.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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The problem would be that there is quite likely no data available on the performance of these "souped-up" T-Bolts. Without data, what can HTC do?
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Jigster,
Juutilainen said he could hear the soviet P-39's cannon.
// fats
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Wherever there were fighter planes and dedicated mechanics, especially American hot rodders, there were souped up fighter planes. If HTC allow undocumented modifications for one aircraft, then they better allow them for all aircraft.
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I agree, funked. That's almost exactly what I was trying to say. No one aircraft should be allowed the performance tweaks.....all the birds should have tweak/souped up options, or none of them should.
The problem would be finding specific numbers of aircraft modified in the field in each way, figuring out what the proportion on stock vs modified aircraft was, then deciding how common the described mods were. And coming up with some kind of documentation would be essential. Word of mouth is one thing, seeing it in black and white would be concrete proof, enough to consider the mod.
Did the LW pilots, crewchiefs, etc. have the flexibility to do things to their planes? I don't know. My understanding has always been that the LW was so structured and regimented, and that the LW brass stuck to the book.
What mods did the Brits do to their Spits and Tiffies, Tempests, etc?
Just curious....... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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And no, I missed it. :/ I don't get the same channels in Canada anyway. Damned CRTC regulations. Bah.
Is there a web site I can go to and order that on video?
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://lephturn.webhop.net) for AH articles and training info!
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Leph, WWW.HISTORYCHANNEL.COM, (http://WWW.HISTORYCHANNEL.COM,) but only sold in the U.S.
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Try this link - you left a comma in the end of the address Rip (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Originally posted by Ripsnort:
Leph, WWW.HISTORYCHANNEL.COM (http://WWW.HISTORYCHANNEL.COM) but only sold in the U.S.
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AND, they only ship to the US and Canada. Yes! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) and Canada... woo.
I've already picked out what I want and sent the link around to my family for my upcomming birthday. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://lephturn.webhop.net) for AH articles and training info!
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S!
In regards to aircraft mods:
Almost all airforces used waxes, sanding and smoothing of the airframe to decrease wind resistance and increase speed and acceleration.
Any pilot who was successful, who brought back his aircraft intact, without damage then gave his crew chief and crew the time to play with modifications.
These were the guys who got the extras.
The Greenhorns who arrived home in a shotup wreck, were lucky to get it fixed to 100% for the next day's mission, let alone getting it tweaked.
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I taped it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Deezcamp and I watched it today. It was excellent.