Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Anaxogoras on September 06, 2009, 11:24:02 AM
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Well, I'm not sure I'm a fan of withholding scores until the end of frame 3, so I did a little tally of K/D ratios by plane type (except for JU-88, JU-87, and B-25). The axis side only used 12 Bf 109s, though they were allowed 24 (over 100 109Es used):
2.93 Hurri IIC
2.41 I-16
2.29 109F-4
2.09 B-239
1.91 P-39D
1.53 P-40E
0.94 Il-2
0.71 109E-4
0.06 110C-4
Looking forward to frame 2!
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That ratio for the I-16 really is an eye opener.
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Wow, that's really weird. I would have expected to see the B-239 and Bf 110C much higher.
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Well remember that environmental factors came into play with the I-16 in frame 1. The Nightmares were in I-16s after the GV phases of the frame. We were ordered to do a sweep of V234 and in that area and were at the mid teens in altitude when we ran into some Bf 109-E4s. The fight quickly sank lower and into the fog. The low altitude fight in the fog really played to the I-16s strength in our case which I know help our K/D ratio. Fighting a plane that can turn on a dime, low and in fog, not a great idea. But the fog prevented the 109s from BnZ us because they couldn't see us effectively to do so I believe.
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I'm sure there were a lot of variables that went into these numbers. I was more curious than normal to calculate them because this is the first FSO with our two new aircraft, the B-239 and I-16. While the B-239 has already made itself a reputation in the main arenas and seemed to do well enough on Friday, I wasn't that surprised by the I-16's success. Turns well, has cannons (with decent ballistics): win. I'm a little bit concerned about the 109E K/D ratio because that is the principal fighter for the axis in this FSO. If it doesn't at least overtake the Il-2 in frames 2 and 3, then this is going to be a lopsided event.
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I've been thinking about which 109 version was "correct" for this time period (late 41 to early 42). From what I have found, there seems to have been very little difference between the available sub-variants of the Emil:
plane engine h/p
Bf-109E-4 DB601Aa 1,175
Bf-109E-4/N DB601N 1,200
Bf-109E-7 DB601N 1,200
The biggest change seems to have been the factory-installed fuselage racks for bombs or drop tanks on the E-7.
About half of the JG units in the East had already converted to the Bf-109F-1 or F-2, but exact numbers are hard to find.
PS: We made out OK with our E-4s in Frame One. ;)
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About half of the JG units in the East had already converted to the Bf-109F-1 or F-2, but exact number are hard to find.
The only unit I've seen still equipped with the Emil through mid-42 on the Eastern front is JG5, which was stationed in the Petsamo area of Finland (at the time, it was part of the USSR after the war), by rough estimate 500 miles away from Leningrad.
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Actually, a lot of units were already flying the F-4 in the East, including JG54 in the Leningrad area. We already went over this in the Northern Star thread. This is the link that was cited: http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bjagd.htm
Ultimately, I think the 109F-4 is kind of a boogeyman of early war setups because it is such a great airplane, and hence the low allowed # of them in this FSO. It would be nice to have a 109F-2, though I hate flying it in Il-2 because of the anemic firepower.
PS: We made out OK with our E-4s in Frame One. ;)
Yeah, I noticed that. :)
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Edit: One more thing. Expressed as a weighted average of the K/D scores listed above, the K/D score for each side was....
Allies 2.01
Axis 1.01
planeA(K/D * % of total aircraft)+planeB(K/D * % of total aircraft)+planeC(K/D * % of total aircraft)...etc.
The I-16 K/D * % comes in at a whopping 1.09. The Hurri IIC and B-239 are both .44. So in terms of impact on the frame, the I-16 dominated.
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I'm surprised too by the I-16.
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Two things there, the 110C was assigned JABO in frame 1 (at least some were), so its #s suffered accordingly, and for some reason, only 12 109Fs rolled in frame 1, probably due to manning levels with some squads.
On a personal note, I enagaged several I-16s in my 109E in frame 1, and it totally dominates it in the vertical as awell as being much faster, so in fairness, the 109E really is a step above the I-16 I think, in an order of magnitude, if flown to its strengths. Thats not to say the I-16 isn't dangerous though, because it is, especially in a low alt furball.
Interesting data though. Thx for posting that.
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I was in the I-16 for my ruskie brethen with a MIGHTY 2 kills! I gotta say I was rudely surprised by all the 109's I saw flying turn fights with me and my fellow I-16's I was assuming it was gunna be a bnz fest with me trying to hold my alt waiting to see a greedy 109 trying to latch to a I-16 buddy for me to catch but alas it seems the 109's got greedy fast or scared into turning quickly.
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we were in th I16s South. got into a low fight with the 109s and Stukas. 5 of us against I dont know, probably atleast dozen 109Es and unknown amount of 87s. Quick fight, but we took out 8 before we were slaughtered.It was fun, but we had zero chance at protecting the factory or surviving.
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I was in the I-16 for my ruskie brethen with a MIGHTY 2 kills! I gotta say I was rudely surprised by all the 109's I saw flying turn fights with me and my fellow I-16's I was assuming it was gunna be a bnz fest with me trying to hold my alt waiting to see a greedy 109 trying to latch to a I-16 buddy for me to catch but alas it seems the 109's got greedy fast or scared into turning quickly.
That's exactly what I saw happening in Phillippine Sea. Hellcats were blowing their speed to get in and turn with the Zekes, where they rightfully got eaten alive. It was so widespread I actually made a point of including a tactical briefing in my orders for Frame I of Tacloban reminding guys NOT TO DO THAT.