Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Anaxogoras on September 10, 2009, 06:14:54 AM

Title: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 10, 2009, 06:14:54 AM
I did a couple searches and nothing turned up.

It would be nice if the server would kick connections that aren't bad enough to disconnect on their own, but which cause the aircraft to warp all over.  Most of the disconnects I see happen to others are during FSO, and their aircraft are smooth and solid beforehand (I rarely disconnect).  In the main arena, some individuals have a bad connection where they are constantly warping, but they do not disconnect.  Last night my wingman was shot down by someone whose ping, judging by how long it took for the damage to occur, was possibly around 1500ms.

I don't know if this would prevent some people from playing the game.  Perhaps it would be a little motivation to sort out their issues.  The point is that one of these connections negatively affects the experience of dozens every time they play.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Kazaa on September 10, 2009, 06:32:22 AM
Kick the laggers! :devil
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Ghosth on September 10, 2009, 06:49:38 AM
Your asking HTC to take a baseball bat to their own customers.

Sorry but I don't see this one happening.
Connections are just not that static, they are always changing, with the ebb and flow of traffic.

Think it through from HT's point of view instead of from yours once.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: OOZ662 on September 10, 2009, 06:54:45 AM
Most of the disconnects I see happen to others are during FSO, and their aircraft are smooth and solid beforehand (I rarely disconnect).

Interestingly, I'm listening to a recording of HT talking on this issue right now.

What you most likely saw was the smoothing code. If you're looking at a plane flying straight and level at speed (i.e. in FSO), no matter how bad his connection is, he'll stay straight and level at speed until he suddenly poofs at disconnection. Those guys you see warping all over the place have "breached" the capabilities of the smoothing code because their acceleration (in all three dimensions) is changing faster than his connection can transmit and the code can't keep up with it.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: LLogann on September 10, 2009, 07:08:20 AM
Agreed.....   The business model doesn't work that way.  Afterall, we play the game......  They play the business.

Your asking HTC to take a baseball bat to their own customers.

Sorry but I don't see this one happening.
Connections are just not that static, they are always changing, with the ebb and flow of traffic.

Think it through from HT's point of view instead of from yours once.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 10, 2009, 10:17:40 AM
Think it through from HT's point of view instead of from yours once.

You sound a little bit condescending here.  I don't need that, thank you.

The issue I'm bringing up is a reason for me to cancel my account, so it is just as relevant to HTC's bottom line as it is to the value I get for my money.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: LLogann on September 10, 2009, 10:21:22 AM
You can't leave......................  :confused:

The issue I'm bringing up is a reason for me to cancel my account, so it is just as relevant to HTC's bottom line as it is to the value I get for my money.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: waystin2 on September 10, 2009, 10:22:23 AM
-1

I sympathize Gavagai, but I would not want to be on the receiving end of a boot because my link got a little wimpy.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 10, 2009, 10:23:56 AM
No, Llogann, I'm not leaving just yet.  I'm just saying that when I tally up the value I get for my money, aircraft that warp all over (because the server does not discriminate) are a negative.

I should also say that what I saw last night was much, much worse than the normal "you're a bit warpy."  I can handle a little bit warpy, but seeing events occur on my front end a full two/three seconds after they occurred on the lagger's front end is a bit much.  Those are the kind of connections I'm singling out.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Lusche on September 10, 2009, 10:26:51 AM
Your asking HTC to take a baseball bat to their own customers.

Sorry but I don't see this one happening.
Connections are just not that static, they are always changing, with the ebb and flow of traffic.

Think it through from HT's point of view instead of from yours once.

I have to say running day after day into someone constantly warping around because of a poor connection (sattelite for example) or just unwilling to set up his computer properly because he doesn't care at all can be highly frustrating to alot of of customers. Particularly when flying in a low-population arena like EW or MW...
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 10, 2009, 10:34:51 AM
I have to say running day after day into someone constantly warping around because of a poor connection (sattelite for example) or just unwilling to set up his computer properly because he doesn't care at all can be highly frustrating to alot of of customers. Particularly when flying in a low-population arena like EW or MW...

Thank you Snailman.  The incident last night was another repeat offender.  When I used to fly in the AvA there was a time when I could pick out a particular player just by his habitual warps, day after day.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: VonMessa on September 10, 2009, 11:19:07 AM
Interestingly, I'm listening to a recording of HT talking on this issue right now.

What you most likely saw was the smoothing code. If you're looking at a plane flying straight and level at speed (i.e. in FSO), no matter how bad his connection is, he'll stay straight and level at speed until he suddenly poofs at disconnection. Those guys you see warping all over the place have "breached" the capabilities of the smoothing code because their acceleration (in all three dimensions) is changing faster than his connection can transmit and the code can't keep up with it.

Stick stirring.........    :noid
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: LLogann on September 10, 2009, 11:19:44 AM
And now that I am thinking about it.........  I'd bet many a warper are trying too hard to have good graphics in game.

The best path might just be if HTC figured a way to code it so if your system is not "very good," the game will automatically lower detailed terrain/water.  Automatically makes you lower settings that might make the box they fly on a little bit better performance-wise.

Only a box that passes all system checks can be allowed to play at max FPS, 1024, Detailed graphics.

Does that make any sense?

Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: OOZ662 on September 10, 2009, 11:29:03 AM
Stick stirring.........    :noid

Not always.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: hitech on September 10, 2009, 11:41:11 AM
Quote
It would be nice if the server would kick connections that aren't bad enough to disconnect on their own, but which cause the aircraft to warp all over.  Most of the disconnects I see happen to others are during FSO, and their aircraft are smooth and solid beforehand (I rarely disconnect).  In the main arena, some individuals have a bad connection where they are constantly warping, but they do not disconnect.  Last night my wingman was shot down by someone whose ping, judging by how long it took for the damage to occur, was possibly around 1500ms.

What is truly amazing in this post is that with what you are describing, but problem is with your connection not some other persons, and hence it is you who should be kicked. Damage lag is do to your connection and not do to the other persons.

HiTech.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: VonMessa on September 10, 2009, 11:45:32 AM
Not always.

Within the situation described by the quote I used from you.

Those guys you see warping all over the place have "breached" the capabilities of the smoothing code because their acceleration (in all three dimensions) is changing faster than his connection can transmit and the code can't keep up with it.

Random, unpredictable movement of the controls on an already slow connection can definitely NOT help the situation.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: LLogann on September 10, 2009, 11:46:00 AM
So..... No Comment?  Am I that far off base?

What is truly amazing in this post is that with what you are describing, but problem is with your connection not some other persons, and hence it is you who should be kicked. Damage lag is do to your connection and not do to the other persons.

HiTech.
And now that I am thinking about it.........  I'd bet many a warper are trying too hard to have good graphics in game.

The best path might just be if HTC figured a way to code it so if your system is not "very good," the game will automatically lower detailed terrain/water.  Automatically makes you lower settings that might make the box they fly on a little bit better performance-wise.

Only a box that passes all system checks can be allowed to play at max FPS, 1024, Detailed graphics.

Does that make any sense?


Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 10, 2009, 11:59:46 AM
What is truly amazing in this post is that with what you are describing, but problem is with your connection not some other persons, and hence it is you who should be kicked. Damage lag is do to your connection and not do to the other persons.

HiTech.


There can be delay in damage scored from the shooter to the host.  That follows by definition from a slow FE->host ping plot.

Is there some miscommunication here?
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: hammer on September 10, 2009, 12:22:52 PM
Logan, trying to use graphic settings that are beyond your system's capability will not cause you to see warps. It can cause you to have low frame rates and possibly stutters / mirco-screen freezes, but not to see another individual warp from one location to another.

Regards,

Hammer
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 10, 2009, 12:27:27 PM
So..... No Comment?  Am I that far off base?


LLogann, from what I understand, your frame rate does not have an effect on warping.  What can cause warps is if you have processes running in the background that are checking for updates, or whatever might interfere with your connection.

I'll let HT give you the definitive answer though, as I'd also like to hear an explanation of his claim that damage delays only occur in the host->FE direction, and that the FE->host direction has nothing to do with it.

In February there was the Comcast issue and I had 3 discos.  I posted my pingplots for skuzzy and he seems to have solved the issue, as I've had 1 disco from March through today.  Lastly, if I did have a crap connection, I would relog.  And if for some reason I didn't, I think it would be just and fair for the host to boot me provided that my connection was bad enough.

So, even if it turns out that the warping I saw last night was due to my own connection (though I doubt it), my wish still stands.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: hitech on September 10, 2009, 12:28:07 PM
Anaxogoras : by delayed damage, do you mean damage you received on your plane? Or damage you did on the other plane?

HiTEch
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: LLogann on September 10, 2009, 12:31:00 PM
Ah but I'm not talking about mine......  I'm just fine, fully functioning.  I'm just saying if the game automatically "dumbs down" the weaker computer's settings, that it may help.  Am I way off base?

Logan, trying to use graphic settings that are beyond your system's capability will not cause you to see warps. It can cause you to have low frame rates and possibly stutters / mirco-screen freezes, but not to see another individual warp from one location to another.

Regards,

Hammer
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 10, 2009, 12:31:16 PM
It was something I saw happen between two aircraft other than mine.  I'm sorry I don't have film, but this is what happened:

Aircraft pass nose to nose, about 2 seconds pass, then I see tracers from one aircraft and the other guy blows up (no collision).  The player who was killed saw the same thing I saw, i.e., nose to nose pass, 2 seconds go by, then he's in the tower.

--------

I should add that the guy who scored the kill is someone I've labeled as having a lousy connection on numerous occasions in the past.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 10, 2009, 12:38:21 PM
Looking at his score and discos, his connection (the lagger) has improved over the recent months.  This is after 27 discos in May. :confused:
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: hammer on September 10, 2009, 12:40:45 PM
Ah but I'm not talking about mine......  I'm just fine, fully functioning.  I'm just saying if the game automatically "dumbs down" the weaker computer's settings, that it may help.  Am I way off base?


Yes. Warping is purely a connection issue. Smoothness of the game, all the way down to visible stutters, is a computer resource issue. However, with resource issues, the whole world stutters, not just a single plane. Some may call that warping, but I don't believe it is what we are talking about here.

Regards,

Hammer
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: nub001 on September 10, 2009, 08:25:34 PM
Your asking HTC to take a baseball bat to their own customers.

Sorry but I don't see this one happening.
Connections are just not that static, they are always changing, with the ebb and flow of traffic.

Think it through from HT's point of view instead of from yours once.
  i was thinking more like a machete instead but a baseball bat is good
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Ghosth on September 10, 2009, 09:10:05 PM
Condescending, no sir, not at all.
Your asking for a change, I just asked you to look at the problem from more than just YOUR viewpoint.

Funny how your reply shows how incapable you are of doing that.

I don't care who you are, or how good you are, or even how long you've been here. When your asking for something that could impact everyone, you really need to think the issue through from all sides.

As for your last comment, which is better, lose a guy like you here and there. Or lose 10-20 a night because your dumping them off the host.  Net connects are not perfect, and with increased use they are going to get worse. AH does disconnect you from the host once a certain point is reached. If you try to disconnect everyone from the host who warps, eventually the servers will be empty.


You sound a little bit condescending here.  I don't need that, thank you.

The issue I'm bringing up is a reason for me to cancel my account, so it is just as relevant to HTC's bottom line as it is to the value I get for my money.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Bino on September 26, 2009, 10:43:48 AM
IMHO, this is an issue that should at least be monitored.  It only takes but one lousy connection to make a negative impact on everyone around.  I'd bet that we've all heard the gripes on range channel when that happens.  If nothing else, it interrupts the suspension of disbelief.

And since there is already code in place to drop from UDP to TCP and then to disconnect when various thresholds are reached, perhaps this could be addressed be something as simple as twiddling those numbers...?
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: guncrasher on September 26, 2009, 03:05:09 PM
IMHO, this is an issue that should at least be monitored.  It only takes but one lousy connection to make a negative impact on everyone around.  I'd bet that we've all heard the gripes on range channel when that happens.  If nothing else, it interrupts the suspension of disbelief.

And since there is already code in place to drop from UDP to TCP and then to disconnect when various thresholds are reached, perhaps this could be addressed be something as simple as twiddling those numbers...?


nothing you can do to people with lousy connections, actually I feel sorry for them because they cant trully enjoy the game.  one of my sqad buddies has this situation and ends up logging in frustration.  the problem really should be directed at the people who conveniently warp when you get on their six.  I record all my flights and had a nice collection of 3 people who would always warp when i got on their six or when they lost they advantage they had on me. but unfortunally lost all of the films when my system crashed 2 weeks ago.  I dont see warpers as much as last year and ow they're a rare breed.  I dont think any of the guys I recorded play the game anymore. just record the flights and report to ah when u have more than a couple of films, that way u can "prove" that it was "on purpose " and not just a freak connection.




semp
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 26, 2009, 04:53:03 PM
Semp, you can direct your squad mate to skuzzy.  Give him a tracert and he'll do wonders for your connection.  I had a bad month with 3 discoes back in February, gave skuzzy a tracert, and since then I've had one disco in 6+ months.
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: guncrasher on September 26, 2009, 04:59:36 PM
He uses a satelite connection, nothing you can really do about that for now, I think.
imho I think the pony fliers cause interference when they re-enter earth  :D.

semp
Title: Re: Bad Connection Kick
Post by: Anaxogoras on September 26, 2009, 05:02:45 PM
He uses a satelite connection

Yeah, that's the kiss of death.  Even dial up is way better than satellite for AH.