Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: funked on November 20, 2000, 08:58:00 AM
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I know it's going to be a while until HTC can work on this kind of thing, but if we get the following (along with a nice snow-covered terrain) we could have a great Ostfront scenario:
Must Have:
Il-2
Ju 87G
T-34
Would be Nice:
Pe-2
Fw 190F/G
Yak-9 or Yak-9D
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yup...cc
Brady
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Funked, did you see the Eastern Front Setup we ran a couple of weeks ago? While those planes you named would indeed be yummy, you left some out.
http://lizking.com/war.htm (http://lizking.com/war.htm)
Lizking
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Gadfly there are only two Soviet planes on that list and neither carries ordnance. I don't see any tanks either. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm not a big fan of subtitutions. I do like lend-lease variants but these had a secondary role to domestically produced aircraft. And for a combined arms battle we need to have some tactical bombers / attack aircraft. Hence my list.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 11-20-2000).]
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Agreed funked, would love to see all of the above.
Hmmmm maybe if we cloned the staff at HTC we could have them working 24 hours a day?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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"The Il-2 aircraft are neccessary for our Red Army now, like air, like bread."
Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War, Vol. 2
Btw: there is no such thing as a tactical bomber, only targets. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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The Il-2 should be the *next* plane modeled after the hellkitty and tbf!
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Yo Funked, the only sub on that list is the ki61 for the Macchi, which was an option the Axis CO could use or not.
Believe it or not, I researched that scenario very heavily. All of those planes where there, in action, at that time. The Macchi was not, but was in theatre and could have been used.
If we had tanks, I would have included the 87g, but it is too easy to kill bridges with it so I left it out.
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We also need a Brewster for east front scenarios. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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Come on King, we both know that list is not representative of what they were actually flying. Sure there were a few of those lend lease birds about, but the bulk of VVS strength was domestically-produced aircraft.
And I'm not sure how any of your comments relate to the topic of this thread. Are you proposing that HTC model a bunch of lend-lease aircraft instead of modeling Soviet aircraft?
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I was thinking about this the other day Funked - I'd love to be in an La-5 in a 'Great Patriotic War' Scenario. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
There would be little point in running the scenario without the types that were the most numerous in the theatre, so that would include the planes/tanks you mention. For that reason, I don't think we'll see it until maybe 1.06.
It would be great to see the T-34, Il-2 and Ju-87 in here.
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One aircraft that has been overlooked,the I-16(aka the"RAT",or Mosca[fly]),was a prominent figure in the early war and served, long into the war. This plane would be fun to fly as it was highly maneuverable,it also carried a useful ground attack loadout:
I-16 tip-24:
4 ShKAS
2 ShVAK
6 RS-82 rockets
or 2 FAB-250 bombs(250kg ea.)
reflector sight
radio
Oxygen
max speed in the 300mph range
source: the osprey encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft,by Bill Gunston
Brady
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Well, with limited resources to build new planes, it only makes sense to make planes that can have widespread use.
Ask the Russians if those lend lease planes didn't save their bacon.
Also, when designing scenarios, instead of substituting planes, I prefer to concentrate on the aspects of the combat that we DO have planes to utilize. In other words, the objectives of the scenario will reflect the actual combat use of the available planes. Actual events that can not be accurately simulated using available planes are left out.
[This message has been edited by Gadfly (edited 11-22-2000).]
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I agree Gadfly. Don't get me wrong - I love the lend-lease planes. I would really dig flying an A-20, B-25, or P-63 with red stars.
But Il-2 is the most produced aircraft in history and the most important aircraft on the Ostfront. Gotta have it.
T-34 is likewise a no-brainer.
Ju 87G had pretty limited use but I think you'll agree that the Ju 87 series in general is important to most scenarios involving the Luftwaffe 1939-1944.
Fw 190F/G is a piece of cake to make from the A-5 or A-8.
Likewise the Yak-9D is easy to do.
Pe-2 could be replaced by lend-lease planes though.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 11-22-2000).]
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No, No, No!
Which lend-lease bomber performs like the Pe-2, and had over 10,000 delivered? The Pe-2 is THE most important VVS level bomber.
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Those Soviet planes are nice, no doubt and I would love to see them. But to compare a plane used in every theater to one that was used in one theatre is silly. Sure I want all kinds of planes, but given the size and scope of what HTC can produce, they should concentrate on:
Planes with the widest possible use.
Planes that the majority of their customers want to fly(American, like it or not).
To repeat: I would love to see those planes, but given the limitations of the game staff, they should concentrate on the more usable planes first.
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So what you are saying is that we need some B-25's. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
My scanner is down but someday I will post a beautiful shot of a B-25J bound for the USSR, fresh from the factory. Late model with the fighter gunsight and 6 fixed forward-firing guns. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Boston/Havoc would rock too. In USAAF, Free French, RAF, and VVS flavors. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 11-22-2000).]
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RUNS SCREAMING THROUGH HOUSE NO NOT ANOTHER STINKING US PLANE FOR THIS GAME PLEEEEEEEASEEEE!,good grief we have tones of us and brit planes,2 IT planes and 2 JP planes wtf?!?, next path we are getting 4 new units that i know of all us.Hey i love this game but fair is fair this is kind of nuts, Russia had Germany by the short hairs they did not need the Normandy landings, they killed the German army, we just secured some territory in western Europe, good grief add some SU planes.Their are other flight sims who have countries represented not chess Pisces and those countries have their own planes,and they have huge followings,(the countries) so why not add them,why don't more people fly the red planes,add a La-7 and lets see what happens,ect...
Brady
sorry for the tantrum but it's been a long time coming (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)somebody should do a pool on this unless they already have an i missed it??
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Yo Brady, I too would like to fly, what to me, are "exotic" planes. The bottom line, however, is that this is a game that requires continuing payments, hence it must hold the interest for the great majority for an extended period.
One of the primary ways to achieve this is historical events. The "lovelys", as I will call these cool but limited use planes, should be a part of the game(as they are), but the main thrust must remain to fill out the planeset with all of those "common" planes that provided the bulk of the action for the largest market for the game. The "My Daddy, Grandpappy, I, flew it" syndrome.
Please don't take this as parochialism or ethnocentrism; it is simply common sense and good business.
Lizardking
P.S. Funked- For a WWII flight sim to not have a B-25 is akin to the same game not having a Mustang, for the bomber types among us.
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I see the logic behind what you're saying Gadfly.
But what about the paint-jobs of these lend-lease planes? I don't see the point of doing a Eastern Front HS if there's just RAF roundels and American stars flying around.
From other topics, I think you're wrong about there being no demand for SU planes. The Il-2 is very high up on the 'most wanted' plane list. I think it would be used a great deal in the MA (and maybe the Stuka would by the LW contingent). As for the T-34, I know I would definitely drive this in preference to the Pz IV.
I'm also not convinced that the majority of people want to fly US planes - I see loads of niks, 109s and 190s in the arena, and a similar number of 38s/51s. The only reason why the F4U is so prevalent is because of FM considerations, not personal attraction to the type. This is similarly demonstrated by the number of nikis in the MA these days. Before 1.04 you were lucky to see one.
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I should think historical events DEMAND the proper planes, not lend-lease lash-ups and substitutions.
"Look at that massive formation of Red Army Shermans with tactical support from A-20's and P-39's, all marked with stars, but they're WHITE, not red?!" UGH!
As for the B-25; a massive 862 were delivered to Russia. The nearest native equivalent, the Il-4, had over 5,000 made.
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 11-22-2000).]
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As to Gadfly's statements, well ... I'll let them speak for themselves.
To those looking for a serious historical representation of the Russian front, 'Il-2 Sturmovik' will be out in the first of the next year. When HTC come out with a full complement of VVS aircraft, we'll then have two places to hold Russian front scenarios.
I guess if you really want a place to fly Russian front scenarios, you need a Russian to do it. That's the way of the modern world.
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leonid, Kompol
5 GIAP VVS-KA, Knights (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 11-23-2000).]
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Gadfly, as a former member of the best bomber squad in the history of online simming, I must say that the B-26 is awesome and I don't miss the B-25 one bit. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Plus I heard HiTech hates the damn thing. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Oh funked .. snow covered terrain is i the works ... can you say stalingrad ? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
DW6
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Well I may be an exception to the rule. But this American loves to fly the Russian, Italian, & Japanese planes. The US planes just don't turn me on. Exception would perhaps be the p39 & p40 when we get them.
I've flown the La-5 exclusively this tour & it ROCKS!
I think we have a very good representation of US planes in the set currently. especially with the naval planes coming in 1.05. Long overdue however for a good Russian & Japanese level bomber.
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Just wanted to draw attention to the fact that the lend-lease equipment was often modified. So even if P-39s and B-25s are used as a replacement in AH, this is not completely accurate. Unmodified P-39s were dogs, while "Sovietized" ones were able to succesfully fight 109s and 190s. They were mainly used for fighter duties, not as ground attack aircraft.
Here are some percentages of US lend-lease equipment delivered to USSR as compared to the output of this equipment by USSR during WWII:
aircraft: 12%
artillery pieces: 2%
tanks: 7%
This equipment was not free, USSR sent to US gobs of non-ferrous metals (like platinum, chrome etc.) and fur as payment.
65.7% of all lend-lease equipment sent by US was delivered to Britain, USSR got 21.3%. Also, for some reason, during toughest times for USSR (Stalingrad battle in 1942 and Kursk in 1943) the delivery of this equipment was stopped for several months. I guess it was just a bad coincidence.
So lend-lease was certainly appreciated but it was not critical for the victory.
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JG 54 is ready to take part in any Eastern Front scenario. Can't wait to go after those ugly La-5s.
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Don't give pilots with lower wingloading a fair fight !
They wouldn't notice anyway.
(http://www.angelfire.com/nt/regoch/sig.gif)
Glunz
9./JG54 "Grunherz"
[This message has been edited by Glunz (edited 11-26-2000).]
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Lend-leased canned pork and clothes were much more appreciated then aircrafts and tanks.
"Unmodified P-39s were dogs, while "Sovietized" ones were able to succesfully fight 109s and 190s."
Hmm. "That's the man, not the machine!" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Soviet Bellas flew on 70 octane fuel, while US and British ones were fed by 100. Should I continue? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
BTW, the best scoring Soviet fighter plane in 1941 was I-16, not modern ones.
It's a shame I just can't advertise some things on this board... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/frown.gif)
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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
[This message has been edited by Boroda (edited 11-26-2000).]
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I posted some time ago that I want to make Kursk scenerio. I worked on the scenerio for about 4-5 hours just to set design docs and investigate into sources a little bit, but what I found were that AH at the moment do not have the nessesary planes set. What afraids me is tendency: it seems that what funked requested would not be around for another 3-4 months at least, and it seems even more. Wish I am wrong. 2 VVS planes is not enough imho.
Decision to make 1.05 navy is understandable and right. 1.06 will be around perk system. 1.07 may be? Still not sure. Seems western front has quite low priority in the HTC ToDo List. Wish I am wrong.
Fariz
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<S!> Pasha (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I will send my nephew's package before too long (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Originally posted by Fariz:
Seems western front has quite low priority in the HTC ToDo List. Wish I am wrong.
Fariz,
Actually, I think that it has more to do with player interest, and most players in AH are from the West, not East. Also, HTC is American, so their interests would naturally be for USA. This I can't fault at all, but it does mean that those of us, who are a minority really, that want Russian front must either be very patient, or have a lot of hope. Basically, you must have strong Russian character to wait for VVS planeset.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)))
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leonid, Kompol
5 GIAP VVS-KA, Knights (http://www.adamfive.com/guerrero)
"Our cause is just. The enemy will be crushed. Victory will be ours."
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Ghosth - I'm pretty much the same. I'm British and the British planes are nice, but I fly La-5 almost exclusively (except when jaboing and then I fly the tiffie). The La-5 is a great little plane.
I'm hoping HTC move away from US planes after 1.05 - I think they have everything covered there compared to the other forces.