Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: brady on November 26, 2000, 12:59:00 PM
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I was just wondering if this were true?
"The reason that Ah has so many US planes is that the customer wants this"
I see countries like Japan, Russia, Italy even Great Britain, who have 2 planes represented for each except GB who has a whooping 4 compared to the US with 11 units and Germany with 9,with the new patch the US will have 15 units. it just seams a little odd to me. I was wondering if u all would care to comment on this , More US good or bad??,is this what we really want?
Brady
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It may depend on if the customer wants "units" for the main arena, or for a possible historical arena.
The aircraft currently modeled are good for a MA because they are, for the most part, competitive with each other in their abilities. A higher % of "competitive" aircraft from WWII were arguably U.S. or German.
An HA environment, however, would require many new planes that would see little use in a MA.
A pacific HA, for example, would not work well with only 2 Japanese planes, both being fighters. Perhaps a Val or Kate and a Betty in addition to the A6M-5 and N1K would provide a minimum Japanese arsenal for a Pacific HA.
The Val or Kate, however, would likely see as much use in the MA as the 202 now sees.
eskimo
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There's still no British fighter later than the Spit IX, which came out in mid 42.
I'd happily see the RAF plane set max out at 5, if one of those was an unperked Spit 14 or Tempest.
I'd planned to join AH as soon as I got my cable modem, but 1.03, with 4 new fighters, none of them British and all of them later than the newest RAF fighter, put me off.
I know US and Luft planes are the most popular, but I believe that concentrating so heavily on them restricts AH.
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Nashwan;
I feel your pain!
I desperatly want the Tempest as well.
For the past 2 months I have been flying the Typhoon as my primary fighter. It is a great ride and when flown well is as deadly as any plane in the AH inventory.
For several months I only flew the Spit IX and loved it just as much.
The AH Lancaster carries twice the bomb load of any other bomber in AH. I also fly it often.
MY point;
Try AH on-line, you will love it.
Even if you only fly British planes, you will be able compete in this great sim. Many of the best pilots in AH primarily fly the
British planes.
See you on-line
eskimo
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"Germany with 9,"
Well,we have 7, but actually we only have 3. 2 variants of Fw190, 4 variants of Bf109, and the JU-88.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see some planes for the Soviets and Japan also. I think the Mossie would be a good addition for GB.
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LJK_Raubvogel
LuftJägerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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Japan and Russia obviously didn't have many a/c during WW2.
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Juzz said:"Japan and Russia obviously didn't have many a/c during WW2"
LOL
LJK, i was referring to units( tanks & planes)
Brady
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LW most popular? G10 is half as popular as the f4uc, and much less popular than nik and Spit.
Really, the Germans have the g10 and the 190's to choose between - f4, g2 and g6 just aren't really competitive.
LW needs a JABO, and some 190 tat can go up and kill high alt buffs.
Other than that, I agree. Emphasis seems to be on US/allied planes.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}
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StSanta, I don't think they're on about most popular aircraft in the MA, just the amount of choices available:-
109F4
109G2
109G6
109G10
190A5
190A8
Ju88
+
PnzrIV
FlakPnzr
Having said the 109F4/G2 isn't competitive, I hear a lot of people using the F4 and G2 on channel 1. I'll use the G10 for buff interception.
Anyway, either way, I'd still like more Luftwaffe planes - a He111 and He177 for instance... BUT I would dearly love more Japanese (definitely a buff), Soviet, an Italian buff... and yes, more British metal (Beaufighter or Mosquito)! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Regards
'Nexx'
[This message has been edited by Replicant (edited 11-26-2000).]
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I don't see 4 variants of Spitfire...
Me 109F-4 = Spitfire V
Me 109G-2 = Spitfire F.IX
Me 109G-6 = ?
Me 109G-10 = ?
So shut up! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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"I was just wondering if this were true? "The reason that AH has so many US planes is that the customer wants this"'
Who are you quoting? That's certainly not anyone at HTC and it's plain b.s.
-Westy
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Me 109F-4 = Spitfire V
Me 109G-2 = Spitfire F.IX
Me 109G-6 = Spitfire XII
Me 109G-10 = Spitfire XIV perked
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Westy, no one In particular In have just heard this from people in the BB and in the MA. I also offer it up as a possible answer, and as a Question ,is this so?, yes or no?, what do think?, will it always be so?Do you want it to be so? (the player)
Brady
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I guess we're all eager to see and try the new naval forces that are going to be added in 1.05. Here we are a year later and it's pretty amazing how much HTC has added and changed.
I'm with you guys though.
This addition of carriers is a perfect opportunity to add the various competitive mid-to-late war Soviet and Italian carrier planes. While they were at it they could add that Kurt Tank designed German uber carrier fighter as well. There's the A6M8 as a possibility too.
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You know what the Spit XII was, how many were produced, and what they were used for, right?
LF.IX/VIII/XVI would be more like it.
And perk the Spit XIV = perk the K-4; oops G-10.
Toad; Soviet and Italian carrier planes???
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Sure, approx 500 were built and they were stopgap before XIV was introduced. XIV was made for same reason, to catch low level Jabo 190s intruding Brit airspace.
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It was more like ~100 XII built. And they mainly did something other than chasing Jabo Fw 190's...
And the XIV wasn't built as a low-level fighter, it was best over 20k.
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Replicant, juzz, take a look at these numbers, from this tour:
The Bf 109G-10 has 5443 kills and has been killed 4514 times.
Popular plane, never contested this.
The Bf 109G-6 has 623 kills and has been killed 763 times.
Oh yes, a real alternative.
The Bf 109G-2 has 507 kills and has been killed 456 times.
Lots of G2's flown?
The Bf 109F-4 has 367 kills and has been killed 611 times.
Same as G2.
The 190's fare a little better:
The fw190A-5 has 1966 kills and has been killed 1609 times.
The Fw 190A-8 has 2282 kills and has been killed 1759 times.
Of these kills, roughly 1000 come from one squad; 9./JG54
I am a pragmatic person. I look at events, and then make comments. Insteaad of going for theory; I look for practise and if there are any differences, I say that the theory needs to be modified.
In theory, we have 7 models.
In practise, only 3, maybe 4, are practical alternatives.
It's like saying "oh, but you got xxx planes!" when 90% of them are obsolete and *very little used* because of it.
And LW and VVS STILL do not have a dedicated JABO.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}
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Oh, and I am all for perking the G10 too.
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StSanta
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
while(!bishRookQueue.isEmpty() && loggedOn()){
30mmDeathDIEDIEDIE(bishRookQueue.removeFront());
System.out.println("LW pilots are superior");
myPlane.performVictoryRoll();
}
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Well... for good or bad.. the U.S. made a lot of planes and fought on two totally different fronts with a huge carrier force. Even planes like the P51 had varients that were totally different planes. The A36/P51A is nothing at all like the later D for instance. Just doing carrier planes gives the U.S. half a dozen extra planes.
I agree that the time period we are in restricts (as it should) plane choices to be modeled. I would love to see an early war area in the arena map.
lazs
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Lazs...who did they fight against,the enemies of the US and here allies had as many, if not more in some cases, different plane types at their disposial.We have one late war Japanese fighter their were at least 4 others I could mention right off the top of my head that were very competitive fighter planes,Ki-84,Ki-100,Ki-102,Ki-44.Also two of the Best of their ,type that is carrier bombers, the Jill and the Grace are late war carrier planes. Itatly also has a number of good mounts for inclusion, the G55 would be very nice indeed as well as the SM 79... Il-2-more of this were produced than any other plane in history and it's Russian.
Brady
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They could have easily done a Japanese Carrier, Cruiser, Destroyer and an Aichi B7A2 Ryusei "Grace" instead of the TBF Avenger, or some combination of these and their American equivalents.
Instead we're getting a straight American list.
Sisu
-Karnak
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I agree that there only a few competitive LW rides, but it's still nice that all those variants are there, isn't it?
Russia could have La-5, LaGG-3, Yak-9D, etc - would they get flown?
Britain could have Spitfire II, LF.Vb, blah blah blah...
Fact is that they don't have many a/c, variants or otherwise, but the US and Germany do.
That's the point, not how many a/c are actually competitive in the "1944 MA".
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You want RAF? We need the Hurricane for Chrisakes! Any serious WWII sim need to have that plane. True, it wouldnt get flown that much because of some of the other planes in the MA, but think of the scenarios!! Forget this uber crap; lets get the 110, Hurricane, Il-2, and other early planes that actually had an impact on the war! Personally I think the scenarios are what will keep this game alive, so we need planes that tookk place in them. Things like the Meteor are gonna be fun for a bit in the main, but how many scenarios you gonna get them in? Kinda like how we dont see the chog in many scenarios. Just my $.02 !
newwguy
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Newguy, I'll add my .02 cents to yours and we'll have .04 cents. However I think that a Hurricane and Bf 110 would be flown quite a bit.
For my money, the Bf 110 was a better attack aircraft than many think. And here would be that jabo plane the luftwobbles have been crying for. The problems with the 110 arrive when people try to turn fight it.
...Weav
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Yes, absolutely!
In addition to bringing in a totally new naval aspect in 1.05 HTC should be including AT LEAST 15 ALL NEW FLIGHT MODELS in this release.
30 days after that we have the RIGHT to expect another 25 all new aircraft and flight models.
After all, we're the PAYING CUSTOMERS and we DESERVE at least that much consideration.
I think those 6 people are just sitting on their rears and drinking beer in Grapevine. Man, they've had a WHOLE YEAR to model every aircraft that fought in WW2!
What's taking them so long???
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Toad....ya that's it their a bunch a balldragers....all kidding aside I am in awww of what HTC has accomplished and am happy to be hear and will be hear a good long time I am shure.Being a big fan of WW2 history I just was kind of wondering if the decision to do so much US stuff was customer based.
Brady
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i dont recall saying that my ideas should be impleminted right away. But as major war contributors, I think they should be higher on the list than some of the late, late, never really saw much combat planes.
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Only after all the US and German flying dweebs have every single version and every single modification ever done to every single aircraft both countries ever produced, can we concentrate on other things. Like every single version and every single modification ever done to any German or US vehicle...
Then HTC can concentrate on British aircraft, Chinese biplanes, and the like.
Lets face it, P-51D's and B-17G's sell. The B-24 was a much more important aircraft in WWII than the B-17 and was better in many respects. The only problem with the B-24 is the wings folding in more easily with hits and it's lack of popularity compared to the B-17. So we have a B-17. More importantly we have a B-17G because it is far more recognizable than the F or E models. It sells. The P-51B/C/MustangIII, while being superior to the P-51D some respects...just isn't as "loved" by the masses like the D model.
If you “other” aircraft loving types want to get your aircraft in the simulation more quickly you should beg and plead for every single US and German aircraft to be put in the simulation. That way when the day is done, HTC will have no reason why not to put a Hurricane IA, Oscar, Il-2, Russian Havoc, or Chinese Biplane in the game.
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After reading Pyro's post on the "after 1.05" release period of increased aircraft production I am now aware that we may be able to get some planes for the deprived countries, Italy, Russia, Japan, England, Australia, France,.......
Brady
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I think these would help balance.My particular preference is a late model LW to match p51d/f4c my choice is 190D9
next in line Allied Tank my choice Sherman m4/M3 Lee/British Matilda then A japanese bomber or torpedo bomber/italian bomber.
Also give existing 190 more variation on field conversions which they had.I as you can tell favour LW aircraft but i think it only fair that those that love Jap planes get their choices too.Id rather fly rare aitcraft that ive never seen in other games than stagnate in other games planesets.
hazed
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Patience is indeed a virtue.
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Patience is all very well, but it looks like the 2 main RAF fighters of 1944 have already been ruled as perk planes.
If the Dora ever comes unperked, as seems likely, it isn't going to be much fun fighting against them in a Spit IX.
Other than that, I agree. Emphasis seems to be on US/allied planes.
StSanta
The main allied nations of WW2 were the US, Soviet Union and Britain and Commonwealth. Given that Britain and Russia, both of which had larger AFs than the Luftwafe, have a total of 6 planes between them, the emphasis seems very much US/German to me.
[This message has been edited by Nashwan (edited 12-03-2000).]
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Just curious.
Anyone remember how many aircraft were available in AW-DOS one year after the Beta?
Anyone remember how many aircraft were available in WB on year after the Beta?
HTC has ALWAYS said this would be a continually evolving game, including the planeset. This planeset is actually pretty well balanced overall. As they should, the aircraft have their strengths and weaknesses and if you use any of them correctly you can do well.
HTC and HTC alone changed the price model for a quality WW2 ACM game. Part of this accomplishment was keeping their staff lean and mean. How many high quality FM's and art files do you expect them to turn out each month with six total employees?
Those other aircraft are coming....and YOU know it. So chill. Get your shorts out of a knot.
Step back, compare this game/planeset to AW and DOS on their respective one-year birthdays.
Enjoy. It's only going to get better.
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Well said;
You go/hop Toad!
eskimo
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Toad, I see your point and if in some way I Implied that HTC was balldraging that was not my intention, I too feel that the plane set is well balanced, It is just that the impression that i get from reading these forums is that HTC does indeed listen to the average joe and that if the average joe wants planes form different countries and periods of WW2 then this is the place to express those desires,The squeaky wheel gets the oil.....
Brady
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Brady,
I hope you won't think I'm picking on you. None of this is directed at a specific poster.
However, I do wonder if folks read and review the board before they raise a ruckus.
Here's a minor example:
Brady: It is just that the impression that i get from reading these forums is that HTC does indeed listen to the average joe and that if the average joe wants planes form different countries and periods of WW2 then this is the place to express those desires
Brady, have you read and replied to this thread in this very same topic?
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/000930.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum9/HTML/000930.html)
(if the link doesn't work, it's (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Customer poll - late war variants by Pyro 11/28/00.
I'd say THAT is the place to express you desires with respect to future aircraft. If you have, good on you. If not, why not post there instead of here? The same goes for everyone else, I'd think. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
This is absolutely NOT directed at any one individual, but the impression I most often get from reading these boards is that we are all a bunch of spoiled little brats that want what we want RIGHT NOW and we want it FREE!
Patience, grasshoppers. Those planes are otw.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Toad, I was referring to the BB in general, I see your point again Toad, and judging by the number of pasts' u have made I can see u have probably seen a lot more of it in this forum than I have. However this is not my first flight sim and not my first forum I have seen what u are referring to in other forums, it is human nature to want what we don't have and for a bunch of people who are as passionate about their hobbies as we all seam to be this is well, what I would expect.
The forum is also part of the fun for me in a flight sim, it is a learning experience, and a place to vent, and a place to see that their are actually other people on the planet who share my passion for military history, it is fun, the 4 year old in me live's on the WOW factor is high and I love it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Brady