Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: LLv34_Camouflage on October 17, 2001, 06:12:00 PM
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Hi!
Exactly 6 months ago we had a big discussion about a rolling perk set system. In my opinion, now would be a good time to introduce the Rolling Perk Set to AH.
Here is fd-ski's original post from: http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=009308 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=009308)
Originally posted by fd ski:
Just an idea and example ( don't pick the details yet )
Look at the picture below. Two day sets, 5 phases. All planes avaialbe all the time, but prices for them change as we progress forward. It should be pretty self explainatory. Where the colors are - planes are free to use. On last 2 days, all are free.
(http://www.raf303.org/temp/rollingperkset.jpg)
What do you think ? Would this give 109F/202/Zeke/Spit5 it's day in the sun ?
Yes Lazs, i know you don't like it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Save you typing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Camo
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would be fun.
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It would definetly be fun, but I would like the current perked rides to still require perks (maybe half or something). Otherwise we end up with 2 days of me262 land.
I've long been a fan of the rolling plane set, but the problem you can quickly run into is that if a person flys one plane exclusively, it puts them in a very bad mood, when you arbitrarily tell them they cant fly it.
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Originally posted by 2Late4U:
It would definetly be fun, but I would like the current perked rides to still require perks (maybe half or something). Otherwise we end up with 2 days of me262 land.
Yep I agree. They should be EXTREMELY expensive in the beginning of the RPS, and less expensive towards the end.
In any case, I dont see any sense in having too steep prices for the planes. Maybe something like 5-10 points per phase, not 20 like fd-ski suggested.
I've long been a fan of the rolling plane set, but the problem you can quickly run into is that if a person flys one plane exclusively, it puts them in a very bad mood, when you arbitrarily tell them they cant fly it.
In the rolling perk set, every plane is available at any time. However, depending on the current "RPS phase", you might have to pay a price to be able to fly your preferred ride. But with a correctly priced "menu", most players should be happy! :)
I'm sure that a Rolling Perk Set would do wonders for the variety of gameplay in AH.
Camo
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Sounds great.
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I like it.
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What do we have to lose? Lets give it a try for a tour.
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I am definitely FOR this idea :)
HTC, please give it a chance!
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Sounds good.
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yep go for it !
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good idea, nice presentation!
THIS is how requests should be made.
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That would be awesome!
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I like it, would like to suggest that the actual rolling perk system is based on usage of the planes in the prior 5 phases setup for the next 5 phase setup.
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so.... While the new guys are flying around in 109E's or Hurri ones.... The vets and those who have saved "perks" can fly untouchable planes therby racking up even more idiotic perk points?
Elegannt solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. If people are willing to tollerate an RPS then they could do so without perk planes. Looks like this setup guarentees that there will never be a period that is fair for the slower early war planes. A straight RPS would be far more even and fair and much less complex. for the life of me I still can't see why someone would like to have a huge advantage ofer the majority simply because he had "earned" perk points.
Better still that there be an early war "area" unmolested by attention starved dweebs who hate good fights. Seems this system guarentees that you never have a fair fight in the early planes, seldom in the mid war planes and pretty much even handed in the late war ones. That is not what I'm looking for in a GAME. Do it in the CT.
lazs
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variety without parity is no variety at all.
laz
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Lazs,
Even a straight RPS is unfair if you look it that way.
Would you consider that an A6M2 or a Bf109E4 play in the same league as a Brewster Buffalo? In an early war arena, 95% of the people will sit in Emils or spitfires, so they can BnZ Morane-Saulniers, Curtiss Hawks and the like to death...This kind of whine will never stop.
The only way to have exact parity is to allow players to fly only ONE particular aircraft. An arena full of Spits I...Fair? Absolutely....Boring? utterly...
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I would love to see it at least tried out.
eskimo
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Ok I'll be the nay sayer.
I hate it. And I honestly think the silent majority of players would hate it. All it is, is a disguised RPS that uses perk points.
Its just like the Combat Theater. Thread after Thread with hundreds of posts saying "I LOVE IT, and I'll be there every day", " I'll fly nothing else", and all the other rah rah cheerleading.
Where is the CT now? Its a ghosttown.
I know for a fact that many people left Warbirds and came to Aces High just to get away from the RPS and the Axis versus Allied arena.
Lets not ruin Aces High too.
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Like Verm said "RPS in disguise". I don't like it. Nice presentation tho'. :)
SOB
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I don't care for it either.
Zippatuh
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If you had an early war 'area' in the arena I can think of more than half a dozen planes right off hand that would have parity or... close enough... 109e, spit one, A6m2, ki43, p40, F4f3,hurri one, mig1, yak1, p39, 202 etc. I'm sure others can think of more. All these planes have strengths and weaknesses but all are on a parity level with each other just... suited to different pilot styles.
There would be more VIABLE choice in the early war "area" than there is in the entire current arena plus... you would still be able to fly anything else in the arena by simply clicking on a different field in a different 'area'.
If you went a step further and had a late, or "perk" area.... you would then have half a dozen viable planes in mid war and half a dozen in late war for upwards to 20 or more VIABLE planes all in the same arena.
contrast that with the 4 or 5 viable planes we have currently and the 2 planes that are allmost 30% of all usage with no chance for the important and fun early war planes.
And nooo.... I don't have a fancy chart but i figure anyone with the brains gawd gave gophers can visulize what I am saying.
lazs
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The idiotic/stupid lazs system will never work.
<g,d,r>
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Originally mumbled by lazs1:
If you had an early war 'area' in the arena I can think of more than half a dozen planes right off hand that would have parity or... close enough... 109e, spit one, A6m2, ki43, p40, F4f3,hurri one, mig1, yak1, p39, 202 etc. I'm sure others can think of more. All these planes have strengths and weaknesses but all are on a parity level with each other just... suited to different pilot styles.
Yeah, right....P40 or P39 against A6M2, you call that parity?
Lazs again:
There would be more VIABLE choice in the early war "area" than there is in the entire current arena plus... you would still be able to fly anything else in the arena by simply clicking on a different field in a different 'area'.
If you went a step further and had a late, or "perk" area.... you would then have half a dozen viable planes in mid war and half a dozen in late war for upwards to 20 or more VIABLE planes all in the same arena.
Well, suppose I fill a Tempest to the top, add droptanks, then I head towards the early war area where I wreck havoc...Will you agree with this? Won't it 'spoil your fun' a bit?
If planes can't fly from one area to another, it's just about the same as different areNas....
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"...Yeah, right....P40 or P39 against A6M2, you call that parity?...".
What's wrong with this matchup? Sounds good, and historical too. I think you're missing the point. Equal doesn't mean identical. Each has their own strengths and when used properly makes for a fair fight.
bowser
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Originally posted by lazs1:
While the new guys are flying around in 109E's or Hurri ones.... The vets and those who have saved "perks" can fly untouchable planes therby racking up even more idiotic perk points?
I see what you mean. The "5-10" points per phase that I suggested, definately doesnt apply to all planes. But thanks for pointing it out! I just realized that this is where the math I thought I'd never need in life comes handy!
In the picture above, the perk cost decrease for each plane is linear. Take for example the Tempest:
The cost in each phase, 1 to 5:
80...60...40...20...free
Instead, it could be made exponential:
400...200...100...50...10
I can't speak for the others, but atleast I would personally think twice before taking off in a Tempest during phase 1.
But like you said, nothing stops the "rich" vets from doing so. Which is one of the key concepts behind the Rolling Perk Set: if they are willing to pay, they can rack idiotic amounts of perk points from the easy 109E and Hurri kills.
What do you think, Lazs?
Camo
[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: LLv34_Camouflage ]
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I can't see the difference from now...200 perks will give you 262 which acts just the same as La7 or Dora for early plane set. Actually 262 is much more disparity.
IMO rolling perk set would give more chances to newbies than the current system since the favourite T&B:ers, Spits for instance, are much more competitive.
Also it would provide much more closed performance planes fighting each other and hence better fights!
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Originally posted by LLv34_Camouflage:
Hi!
Exactly 6 months ago we had a big discussion about a rolling perk set system. In my opinion, now would be a good time to introduce the Rolling Perk Set to AH.
Here is fd-ski's original post from: http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=009308 (http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=009308)
Camo
I like the idea of rolling, just not perks.
Now we have Roll the Perks idea?
I'm quite opposed to the specifics of this chart.
Don't you think some gamers may fly only on the days when their favorite perk ride is free. Or even worse, it could prevent poor/unlucky pilots from flying perk birds on higher cost days due to lack of perks.
This would add additional unbalance to the arena.
It hurts the pilot with poor connections or poor skill in the harder aircraft. They can't earn perks as fast as Discos/Deaths can take them away. So they get stuck flying Spits ALL the time?
Sorry, but I don't want to see 100 spits every flight! ;)
Tune the colors up to add more freedom, and cut the costs dramaticaly (lower by 60%) to provide for the "Perk Poor," and you'll have my vote. :)
Viper
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deselys... u have no point. the matchups are good.
The "areas" would have seperation of many sectors and... I would even like a mountain range of 40K. many ways to keep out the dipshits. I would also like for the early war area to be canyons... erfect terrain for those early war twisty turny planes but not so good for say a 262 eh?
hblair... don't make me notice you!
camo... jerk the math around anyway you like but... it does not solve the basic problem with the rolling perk set. Any time you have -4 Hogs fighting p40's you have an unfair and lopsided arena. You wish to make the unfair fights rare. I fail to understand how that makes em any more fair or any more fun for that matter. also....
you seen that with a simple little matchup of 6 or so early war planes I suggested that it caused "controversy" imagine how many arguements would ensue from as complex and arbitrary system as the rollintg perk set.
lazs
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Bowser,
don't get me wrong, I am an advocate of the RPS and even more of an Allies/Axis arena. This matchup is indeed historical and realistic. I just wanted to remind to Lazs that even with an early plane set of 20 different planes, 2-3 fighter types will shine above the lot, and ~75% of the planes you'll encounter in the arena will be those 2-3 particular fighters. So it won't bring diversity. Off course, as new models roll out, the situation will evolve, so some kind of diversity will arise.
I still think that in a 1vs1 fight without any advantage, the A6M2 has a serious edge upon the P40 or the P39...The allied pilot should better not waste any shot opportunity, because he won't get many...In a 4vs4 or even 2vs2 fight, the employed tactics will decide...
Originally posted by lazs1:
deselys... u have no point. the matchups are good.
The Great Lazs has spoken! Truth flows out of his Blessed Mouth... :rolleyes:
Originally posted by lazs1:
The "areas" would have seperation of many sectors and... I would even like a mountain range of 40K. many ways to keep out the dipshits (your mental age is showing, bud).
Well, if it's almost impossible for a plane to fly from one area to another, I don't see the need to group thoses area in one big arena. It's better to design smaller arenas with smaller maps (download time shorter and less ram required...). Of course, the player pool will be diluted between those different arenas...so your beloved furballs won't be as 'fun' as before...Maybe the RPS isn't that bad after all...
I also wanted to correct another of your post in another thread: when the Axis/Allied arena was launched in WB, Main Arena turned into ghost-town for months...the majority of players preferred the new settings, the rest followed the herd. I suppose some people left because they didn't like the RPS, or because they didn't like the allied/axis matchup. But most people searched for a better sky due to:
1) Hotseat's attitude
2) connection quality going downhill
3) FM of some plane badly porked during more than 1 year (ie Bf109F4 outrunning, outclimbing, outturning and outgunning the Spit V!)
de Selys
PS
Originally posted by lazs1:
I would also like for the early war area to be canyons... perfect terrain for those early war twisty turny planes but not so good for say a 262 eh?
You played X-Wing vs TIE fighter too much...But now I grasp why you like the low mindless furballs so much...
[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]
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Originally posted by lazs1:
it does not solve the basic problem with the rolling perk set. Any time you have -4 Hogs fighting p40's you have an unfair and lopsided arena. You wish to make the unfair fights rare. I fail to understand how that makes em any more fair or any more fun for that matter.
"Make unfair fights rare"? Instead, how about "make the various historical matchups more frequent"?
I don't see what fair/unfair has anything to do with this. The fluid nature of air combat should make that kind of a view point pretty useless. Each pilot has the option to engage or not to disengage as they best see fit. It is up to the pilot to get himself in a fair situation. That has little to do with the plane types - just fight to your plane's strenghts.
In the current MA, we have 202s fighting 262. So if I read you correctly, you are saying that right now we have an unfair and lopsided arena? What is your solution to correct that? With all due respect Lazs, so far you haven't given us many suggestions to work with.
Right now, AH is more of a late war festival. Just looking at the stats, one can draw a conclusion that people don't find it fun to fly in an early war ride. Probably because they will mostly face late war planes. Pre-43 planes have very little use. And imho, that is a shame.
Camo
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It seems to me that in order for this scheme to work you would have to adjust the ENY and OBJ values for the planes as well as their cost. In this way a higher cost plane could never rack up perks flying against lesser craft.
F.
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Funny this should be on top... i just posted another "RPS in sheep clothing" idea :D
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Would be nice if you cut the RPS into 10 day chunks instead of 2 day chunks so as to cover the whole tour. Maybe the last 10 day chunk should be cut into 2 day chunks, giving all planes free the last 2 days of the month.
BTW, I see the P-38 and F4U-1 are not in the list.. glad to see they are free all the time :)
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desely... the matchups are good. Where you are not getting it is in the fact that you are so tied to the unfun and unfair "allied vs axis" thing. There is only a few slim slices of WWII where allied vs axis works out with any parity. an anything goes with those 6-7 early war planes would get at least 4 of em being used all the time. good as we got now and only in one small area... more variety everywhere. Perk is not variety.
the areas need to all be in one arena because.... well... seperate arenas don't work. Yu have "historical" matchups in the CT right now in a seperate arena and you ain't over there. It aint fun. Even the likes of you won't do it. No... You need to have it all in one arena so that a person can decide and choose his fight seamlessly and rapidly knowing what is going on in all areas. he would stay in contact with squadies the whole time if he wanted. You can't do that with seperate arenas. Why not just seperate sims?
As for someone grabbing droptanks and a tempest to go fight early war planes? No appologies for calling that person a "dipshit".
As for making the early war area a "furball" area by having it canyons... Well... early war planes are by nature good at melees and they are very agile. I believe most would love to wring them out in the canyons. That would not stop someone from e fighting or from B&Z in the least tho. they simply would have to do it in planes of parity. Get it?
as for me being the "great and all knowing lazs.... If the others in question are like yourself then I suppose the expression "in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king" is the appropriate one soo.... I will make this simple so that even you can get it.... not enough people like an RPS of any kind... Not that many like allied vs axis (even the more brain ded among the advocates eventually "notice" how boring it is). And nobody likes seperate arenas so far in any sim.
I will say tho.. Perhaps we could have seperate arenas but they would have to have the ability to switch back and forth easily and to see any arena map from any other.
lazs
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YESSSSSSSSSSSS :cool:
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Dear Lazs,
I only agree with your last sentence. The ability to check what's happening in the other arenas and to communicate with the players in those arenas could be some kind of compromise between early/late war, day/night...
Unfortunately, I deeply disagree with the rest of your post (as usual): although I like the early and mid war planesets, I can't see where is the 'fun' to fight a spit with a hurricane or a zeke with a 109. First, because this is supposed to be a WWII flight simulator. For fantasy fights, there are some products like Crimson Skies. Second, because this prevents to get rid of the icons someday (how can you identify a friend from a foe then?). I know you like the long icon settings, but I think they make it too easy to keep sight of an opponent. I tried some fights in the arena you hate so much (CT...) without icons....well, it's damn hard to keep track of an opponent diving towards a forest or city background...meaning: it allows a slower plane to extend if his uber opponent doesn't stay close enough...no more rocket zoom climbs to fall back on a d2.0 lower con...Now this should suit you.
But the icons aren't the topic of this thread. You state that everybody would find the Allied/Axis planeset 'unfun and unfair'. I'm far from convinced.
Unfun: it's your opinion...
Unfair: grow up a bit...this isn't supposed to be fair. Fairness is for H2H. (Do you think that the players with 3-4 years experience are fair for the newbie who just signed in???). I don't mind to enter a fight against a better plane. I'll try to do my best anyway, and if I win, it's very rewarding...Btw, I'll tell you something really hush-hush: dieing isn't important here. It doesn't hurt. You can respawn immediately. You won't lose points. Maybe it will bruise your ego a bit, but with maturity you'll overcome it.....
Again, when the Allied/Axis Arena was launched in WarBirds, it became the main arena within days. (Of course, if you only fly the same plane model, it can get boring pretty quickly...but you would be limiting yourself then...)
My explanations for the lack of success of the CT are:
-no strat at all: self explaining
-no AWACS dar dots: people tend to be lazy. You, me, everybody seeks from time to time the eazy way. I understand that someone who discovered online flying with AH wouldn't like to lose the big help (~crutch) within the airborne dar dots. Coming from WB myself, it was easier for me. But once again, this debate belongs to another thread.
My point is: I believe the majority would prefer an Axis/Allied planeset. The WB experience convinced me. Period. Case closed.
This being said, I don't really care if the MA evolves into your vision of WWII flight sim, as long as HTC adapt the CT to 1.08 and insert a strat system into it. In the MA, you can get rid of the clouds, dogfight in canyons, chase each other in tunnels, pick up power-ups floating in mid air, that's not my business anymore...
The Rolling Perk Set used in CT (different from the one proposed here) worked just fine and gave us good matchups too!
2 last remarks:
1)
Tour 18: 100% of your kills and 100% of your deaths happened while you flew F4U-1C&D
Tour 19: 97% of your kills and 95% of your deaths happened while you flew F4U-1C&D
Tour 20: 100% of your kills and 100% of your deaths happened while you flew F4U-1C&D
Tour 21: 94% of your kills and 90% of your deaths happened while you flew F4U-1,-1C&D,-4
For someone who yells so loud for variety, you don't seem to make a big use of the whole planeset available here...Why should others do otherwise?
2)
If you feel entitled to call someone who doesn't cheat nor bend the rules of a game a 'dipshit', it is kinda revelating of you character...
This post was edited to correct my lousy english...
[ 10-20-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]
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I strongly support this idea of RPS based upon perks. Thanks to Camo for pointing at this option. :)
TO EVERYONE:
be open mind.
why degenerate an interesting topic, useful for the whole community in a stupid egoic querrel?
be productive.
The effort of PURPOSING something must be appreciate also if you disagree with the purpose expressed.
IMHO
------------
regards
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SOME GOOD REASONS TO VOTE IT TO BE ADDED INTO Aces High PLANESET:
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-Its great for: turning, shooting, diving, groundattacking
- Its the best Italian fighter, the only suited for the Main Arena
- Its the best turnfighter that served in the Luftwaffe as well
- Its good for scenarios(Italy,Mediterranean,Germany, Ploesti)
Sponsored by: 1° Gruppo Caccia "Asso di Bastoni"
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Oops Lazs I owe you an apology :o
I just re-read this whole thread, and I realized that it was Verm who stated that lots of players left WB because of the neaw axis/allied arena, not you. So please disregard any (harsh) comment from me towards you on this topic.
For the rest, I'll hold my ground.
[ 10-21-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]
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desel... agreed..we will leave icons out of it. You don't need to be wrong on that too.
As for this being a WWII sim... i don't think so. I don't think it was meant to recreate WWII or even the airwar. You admit that the WWII historical plane matchups were not fair or had any parity for most periods? I believe that is what you are admiting anyway but... You then go on to claim that such lopsided nonparity is what? good for the soul? No... The fact that most pilots never seen an enemy their entire tour is historical too but you don't seem to advocate that.
No... This is first and foremost a GAME. In order to have fun people need to have an even chance going in. They/we realize that others with more skill may still prevail but... not simply because they were given a better weapon. No matter how many championships a football team wins they don't give em firearms to use in the next game as a reward. The other teams watch what they did and learn from it.
Like the rest of the "historical" hypocrites you want to pick and choose your historical parameters. Unfortunately that is the petard you guys end up hoisted on.. The CT is a perfect example. You can't find 2 "historical" planeset guys that agree on anything past.... "Allied vs axis". Hell... you can't find 2 guys dedicated to allied vs axis enough to.... even fly there.
This is a flight sim using WWII ac. FM, damage and gunnery are all simulated. We get to do what all those WWII pilots wanted to do all allong and match ourselves agains all the planes.
As for my choice of the F4U. I think it is a mediocre plane in the current set. I would just as soon fly an F4f but only in an early war setting. The F4U is very average in K/D and, against the 4 most popular planes in the arena, far inferior. Still... IMO, it allows me to engage the largest amount of planes in the arena. I can fight somewhat with just about anything. I don't have the best chance but I'm doing ok and it gives me a better shot at variety of fights.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs1:
desel... agreed..we will leave icons out of it. You don't need to be wrong on that too.
This is why no constructive discussion is possible with you...
...The fact that most pilots never seen an enemy their entire tour is historical too...
Now you're rewriting history...I would like to see your 'sources'...
No... This is first and foremost a GAME. In order to have fun people need to have an even chance going in. They/we realize that others with more skill may still prevail but... not simply because they were given a better weapon. No matter how many championships a football team wins they don't give em firearms to use in the next game as a reward. The other teams watch what they did and learn from it.
You have access to perk planes too, if I'm right. It's your choice not to use them (oops you used the F4U-4 this tour...were you drunk that evening?). Don't blame the world then.
Besides, when a football team is winning often, money comes in, allowing to 'buy' better players... (firearms :rolleyes: ).
Btw, you have a positive K/D against perk planes those last tours...so why the whine?
Like the rest of the "historical" hypocrites you want to pick and choose your historical parameters. Unfortunately that is the petard you guys end up hoisted on.. The CT is a perfect example. You can't find 2 "historical" planeset guys that agree on anything past.... "Allied vs axis". Hell... you can't find 2 guys dedicated to allied vs axis enough to.... even fly there.
Completely wrong and irrelevant. You never even logged into the CT. Your opinion is worthless on that matter.
As for my choice of the F4U. I think it is a mediocre plane in the current set. I would just as soon fly an F4f but only in an early war setting. The F4U is very average in K/D and, against the 4 most popular planes in the arena, far inferior. Still... IMO, it allows me to engage the largest amount of planes in the arena. I can fight somewhat with just about anything. I don't have the best chance but I'm doing ok and it gives me a better shot at variety of fights.
Read my post again. I never accused you or someone else to use exclusively some 'uber' plane...I just pointed out that you don't contribute a single bit to the variety you're asking about. The F4U is a commonly used plane in the arena....
Now I'll shut up whatever your answer may be, because this could go on forever....
See you in another thread,
[ 10-21-2001: Message edited by: deSelys ]
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desel... why do you constantly bring my stats into this? They have no bearing on this discussion. How well i do against perk rides is not the issue. I have a positive against every plane I believe.. They are not hard to avoid.... just moronic and annoying and unfair. Better you should see how well perk rides do against other rides as a whole eh? But....
let's look at some stats since you are so fond of that... You are trying to say that the rolling perk set would be "fun" are you not? I point out the unfairness of it and claim that it would be unfun so....
I have looked at your "stats" and come to the conclussion that.... You haven't a clue as to what is "fun" for most people. You were up for 12 and a half hours to get 34 Kills! Your kill per time is 0.0008!! A thrilling sortie for you is flying a complete sortie (and long ones at that) to get..... half a kill! Don't get me wrong... I'm not talking about skill.. I'm talking about style. A very unfun and anal style.
Now, I contend that most would find your brand of hiding from fights more than a triffle boring. So why do you even care about "historical" matchups or, matchups of any kind since you work so hard to avoid matchups of any kind? Why aren't yu in the CT? Your penchant for doing nothing seems ideally matched to that arena.
Oh.. and they don't give football players firearms if they win a lot. Money and skill is not a good analodgy. Many in AH have money and skill... they can buy the best computer system and have a lot of natural ability, that is fine with me. This is a game tho and most have only a limited amounnt of time to play. they want a level playing field when they log on. Newbies don't want an even steeper learning curve or.... they leave. I would rather you were unhappy than a bunch of newbies passing up the game. Bet HTC feels the same.
lazs
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lazs
...The fact that most pilots never seen an enemy their entire tour is historical too...
deselys Now you're rewriting history...I would like to see your 'sources'...
Actually, this is a well known fact that most fighter pilots didn't see much enemy action.
I could be wrong, but I'm sure one of the history people will stick their head in here and lay down the truth.
[ 10-22-2001: Message edited by: moose ]
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In Johnson's book Thunderbolt! he mentions not seeing an enemy fighter over a period of 2 months.
SKurj
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To Moose and Skurj,
I haven't any sources with figures about it, but I think we should take the whole war into account for each country. The following periods were particularly active for the fighter pilots of the following corps:
France Armée de l'air 1940
RAF 1939-1941
LW western front 1939-1941, 1944-1945 (they were even bounced by Allied planes during training inthe last months...)
LW eastern front
...
Of course, Allied pilots flying over Europe after D-Day, and even more after Operation Bodenplatte have seen less action than their predecessors: the LW was dying while the numbers of Allied fighters was overwhelming...
I am interested to see the figures too,
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Originally posted by lazs1:
desel... why do you constantly bring my stats into this?
He was saying that while YOU are calling for variety in plane match-ups, you only seem to fly one type yourself. THAT was the point.
Better you should see how well perk rides do against other rides as a whole eh?
People seem to fly perk rides more carefully, trying to stay alive and not to lose the points. That is great IMO. But that is not your "style".
That is why it would be grerat to have al planes perked a bit and thus adding some risk to plane losses.
You haven't a clue as to what is "fun" for most people. Your kill per time is 0.0008!!
Ahh.. now I get it. The GOD here says that high kills per time = FUN.
Low kills per time dont mean hiding from fights. More often it means avoiding HOs and collisions and flying more difficult and demanding planes, which for many IS fun. Most often High kills per time also means high death count, HOs, collisions... and spoiling the FUN from others!
My kills per time is 0.0009 and I am enjoying myself a lot at AH. If it was a lot higher, my death count would also be much higher. THAT would NOT be fun at all. HO's and collisions are a long way from fun... IMO. In Quake they are great fun, I guess.
...A very unfun and anal style.
Really catfood... crawl back to your style hole to "ANALyze" your own style.
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blauk.. he not only brought up my 'stats' on the planes I fly but my K/D against "perk" rides. I merely (and correctly) said that how I do against perk rides is of little consequence it is how the perk ridews do in general... and speaking of that... do you honestly belive that their 3 to 1 or so K/D is simply because the guys who fly em are.. extra careful?? LOL.. more likeley their (perk planes) K/d is artificially low vbecause of the idiotic perk system... eople don't fly em enough to get good and they are a despised and prized target. They must be damn unbalancing to do as well as they do.
Oh... I belive that the F4U allows me to fight the largest amount of planes in the current arena. It is not the best at anything but it will suffice to have enough parity to fight about anything. I admit to flying it rather foolishly, heading into low alt furballs, but It aquits itself Ok if you spend some time learning it.
And.... I stand by my idea of what most people think is fun. I don't believe most people would find (after flying enough to get good) 3 or less kills per hour a lot of fun.... half a kill per long boring sortie.... a sortie spent climbing and looking for someone who doesn't see you.... cursing radar for stealling your kills... running at the first sign of loss of the overwhelming advantage.... picking off cripples that are trying to rtb (well, that parts fun tho)... forcing people to fly to live means no one ever engages. Those less cowardly become bored and leave... I think you will find that most players find that unfun and anal. Watch the arena. see where people go. give em a furball and they will attend.
This is a GAME...If We wanted organization and boredom.... we woulda stayed at work.
lazs
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I thnink it's an excellent idea. I, for one, think the MA has gotten completely boring, even with the recent release of 1.08. I dont play 1/10th the time I used to and I'm a HUGE fan of flight sims. This is hands down the absolute best game I've ever played on a computer, it's a damn shame it's become such a bore unnecessarily. Apparently, I'm not the only one who feels like this, 90% of my squad doesn't play anymore either and we've been very active in MMOG's since AW first went to a windows version. Most of us have spent years now in one sim or another flyin' our p51's against the horde's of spit drivers. It's gotten boring.
What's the solution you ask? Well, in my view I'd like to see this type of a rolling plane set introduced along with a two sided map representing say the European theatre. I wanna fly the historical matchups some. I want to get out there with my flight of 15 or 20 p51b's and mix it up with a like number of 109's and fw's.
Maybe next month do the same thing in the pacific theatre for a week. Maybe, during prime time we could have a trainer or AH staffer post historical strategic mission for each side with extra perks offered for participation (although I think participation would be high without the incentive).
Yeah, Yeah, I know..fly the scenarios you say. Well, they just dont come along that often, are cumbersome to organize and difficult to schedule time in advance. One has to be willing to alter ones life schedule in advance to make time for a game....thats a little too much of a commitment for many of us who simply fly when we find we have the free time. Fly the Combat arena? Well, fine, but there's no numbers there, not because players dont like the idea but because most people go where the numbers are to get in a few quick fights before the wife comes home or their favorite tv show comes on at 10 o'clock or they simply dont have the patience to spend lots of time looking for a fight. I think given the chance most people would apreciate the chance to participate in this kind of historical play occasionally.
Could I be accused of trying to force other players into my game? Sure, but the fact is that we've all been playing the MA game for years now and it's gotten stale. Historical terrains and matchups isn't too much to ask for one week a month. Hell, we could even test it out with just one weekend and see how people like it.
Technically the game is absolutely fantastic, none better, it's time to put all this potential to good use.
CRASH
[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: CRASH ]