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Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: sandwich on September 27, 2009, 06:05:25 PM

Title: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: sandwich on September 27, 2009, 06:05:25 PM

Is there any gunsights that you use to improve gunnery?

I have some flying skills but my gunnery is absolutely atrocious.

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: Steve on September 27, 2009, 07:26:42 PM

You could try practicing.

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: Qrsu on September 27, 2009, 07:30:03 PM

I use the default sight and have stuck with it... my gunnery is poor, but I've tried a few gunsights and really... they all do the same thing. It's how you use them.

Here's a good read for you.

http://www.simhq.com/_air10/air_312a.html

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: Enker on September 27, 2009, 07:43:38 PM

(http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo280/Enker_photo/Xwing.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~novelisteye/TIEFighter.bmp)(AKP did the TIE fighter one.)
I use these two along with a good dosage of the force. Not having a dot in the middle really helps me with high angle deflection shooting.

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: sandwich on September 27, 2009, 08:04:27 PM

wow

Thanks for the star wars gunsights.

Also sorry for the kill steal in KOTH.

Can someone give me the default gunsight?

For some reason my default gunsight doesnt work anymore. Just get blank

Also does anybody have the gunsight seen in 33vortex's Aces Of Aces High video?

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: StokesAk on September 27, 2009, 09:22:17 PM

Personally I use this one i made.

(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp313/Strokeys/K15-a.jpg)


It has range lines that can help you judge range in planes. (goto the TA and type .target #### and look where they hit in realtion to the ticks)

It aslo has a flat line so you can judge the angle of your plane when zoomed in better.

Has sloping lines ~45 degrees so you can make some well geussed diflection shots.

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: MutleyBR on September 28, 2009, 02:38:46 AM

Hi Sandwich and friends!

Mine, for JABO's is this one:

(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee331/BlueMerlinBr/mutley_dred_B.jpg)

Don't use this image(JPG) download it from here(BMP):

http://www.mediafire.com/file/5jzq3dydf1d/mutley_dred_B.bmp (http://www.mediafire.com/file/5jzq3dydf1d/mutley_dred_B.bmp)

Also, do a search for gunnery training in this Forum.

Hope it helps.

Mutley (with 1 T, please do not take me for that 2 TT copy cat)

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: MutleyBR on September 28, 2009, 04:32:25 AM

Quote from: sandwich on September 27, 2009, 08:04:27 PM

wow

Thanks for the star wars gunsights.

Also sorry for the kill steal in KOTH.

Can someone give me the default gunsight?

For some reason my default gunsight doesnt work anymore. Just get blank

Also does anybody have the gunsight seen in 33vortex's Aces Of Aces High video?

Download default sight from here:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/yitjznmbzm0/default.bmp (http://www.mediafire.com/file/yitjznmbzm0/default.bmp)

Mutley

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: Ghosth on September 28, 2009, 06:42:46 AM

Shudder

(http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/ghosth/default.bmp)
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/ghosth/default.bmp (http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/files/ghosth/default.bmp)

In my opinion, the less between my eyeball and the enemy the better.
That includes tracers, and gunsights.

Come to the TA, spend a week turning the lead computing gunsight on & off as you follow people.
Pick one plane, and set of guns and stick with it till you can hit every time. Only once you have it mastered should you allow yourself to experiment with a different plane and set of guns.
If at any point things get screwed up you go right back to the basics.

Get behind them
Anticipate their next move
Watch their wings (they'll tell you where he's going before he goes there)
Lead (sometimes this means pulling lots of lead, sometimes your better to hang back in lag pursuit and wait till he quits flopping around)
Range is important, don't try to get killing shots at 600 +

With cannons closer is much better, plus the target is 4X easier to hit at 200 than it is at 600.

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: Masherbrum on September 28, 2009, 09:28:57 AM

I use a dot.   Deflections is probably my specialty.   I'm like Ghosth, the less clutter, the better. 

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: SIK1 on September 28, 2009, 10:44:32 AM

Dot here as well, and for the same reasons.

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: mtnman on September 28, 2009, 12:47:15 PM

Gotta love the dot!

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: ImADot on September 28, 2009, 06:59:33 PM

Aw, I'm blushing with all the luv!   :D

The only difference a sight really makes is if you have special marks for bombs/rockets if you do JABO a lot.  Otherwise, the simpler the better, as has been said by many.  The biggest factor in improving your gunnery is practice.  Don't be discouraged when you miss a lot and die a lot...just pay attention to what you're doing and learn from what didn't work so well.  Film is a good tool - film some fights and analyze it from all points of view around your plane.

Mostly, it's experience and patience that will get you there.  Patience is usually rewarded...if you're 400 off his tail, wait until you're 200 and you'll land more hits - even if it takes an extra 2 minutes.  Once you kill him, you'll have that much more ammo left for the next one.

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: HellFire on September 29, 2009, 09:20:07 PM

MutleyBR  :)

What are the gradations for the Jabo gunsight  ... how is it best used for?  which is
for rockets/bombs, divebombing ?  Aim for fighters, where? what? when?   Not being a smart aleck , really want to know, thx   :salute

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: sandwich on September 29, 2009, 09:34:48 PM

how do you turn the lead computing gunsight on?

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: lowman on September 29, 2009, 10:17:00 PM

   I think the keys are Ctrl Tab. You can toggle "enemy planes" by hitting the Tab key.

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: MutleyBR on September 30, 2009, 03:57:00 AM

Quote from: HellFire on September 29, 2009, 09:20:07 PM

MutleyBR  :)

What are the gradations for the Jabo gunsight  ... how is it best used for?  which is
for rockets/bombs, divebombing ?  Aim for fighters, where? what? when?   Not being a smart aleck , really want to know, thx   :salute

Hi HellFire and friends!

The color is dark red because I found that most suitable for different conditions, against(or almost) the sun,    low alt target over terrain, etc. But if any of you prefer a different color, or have any idea to improve it, please let me know and I'll do it.

For deflections shots at 400 yds just place those diagonal lines over target and shoot. At distances <> 400yds correct accordingly.

For straffing gun positions, for example use that center "square".

For bombs and rockets, you will have to experiment(film your attacks the analyse them). When you get a hit , memorize sight position relative to target and use that.

I used to have a net page about "Gunnery Training" got some very old pics from that page(second pic is first version of sight, but same idea):

General instructions:

(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee331/BlueMerlinBr/Sightinstructions.jpg)

Deflection shot at 400 yds.

(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee331/BlueMerlinBr/shureshot.jpg)

Hope this helps.   :salute

Mutley

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: Ghosth on September 30, 2009, 05:19:49 AM

Sandwich, in the TA, Control TAb (gives host "padlock enabled"

Then put your target in center of view and hit tab again.

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: CAP1 on September 30, 2009, 08:04:43 AM

i find that if i have time to aim, i suck.

the shots i tend o make are those quickies, as the cons flashes past me

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: CVA on September 30, 2009, 01:15:06 PM

I don't use a gun sight. I move up as high as I can in the cockpit and look over the nose of the plane. Great for deflection shots and driving on bombers. I just follow my tracers. If I were a better gunner I would have alot more kills, but I suck. If I don't use this system I would suck even more than I do now. I always shoot from to far out (600 or so) and that's a big mistake.  CVA

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: Shuffler on September 30, 2009, 01:44:36 PM

g14

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: CAP1 on September 30, 2009, 02:20:28 PM

Quote from: MutleyBR on September 30, 2009, 03:57:00 AM

Hi HellFire and friends!

The color is dark red because I found that most suitable for different conditions, against(or almost) the sun,    low alt target over terrain, etc. But if any of you prefer a different color, or have any idea to improve it, please let me know and I'll do it.

For deflections shots at 400 yds just place those diagonal lines over target and shoot. At distances <> 400yds correct accordingly.

For straffing gun positions, for example use that center "square".

For bombs and rockets, you will have to experiment(film your attacks the analyse them). When you get a hit , memorize sight position relative to target and use that.

I used to have a net page about "Gunnery Training" got some very old pics from that page(second pic is first version of sight, but same idea):

General instructions:

(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee331/BlueMerlinBr/Sightinstructions.jpg)

Deflection shot at 400 yds.

(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee331/BlueMerlinBr/shureshot.jpg)

Hope this helps.   :salute

Mutley

question.

in the second pic....the one that shows the a20 lined up. i'm looking at the angle of the aircraft as it crosses through there.

 didn't someone do a write up in here before on how to judge lead by that "angle off" i think they called it?

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: MutleyBR on September 30, 2009, 02:42:21 PM

Quote from: CAP1 on September 30, 2009, 02:20:28 PM

question.

in the second pic....the one that shows the a20 lined up. i'm looking at the angle of the aircraft as it crosses through there.

 didn't someone do a write up in here before on how to judge lead by that "angle off" i think they called it?

Yes, I recall someone wrote something like that.

And there are other nice comments on the subject.

The purpose of this gunsight is to make it easier to guess distance/angle and decide when to shoot.

As you said before, many times we only have the opportunity for a snapshot, or quick action, and cannot afford the luxury of going into theory. Is this, the right angle? The right distance? etc

If one gets used to a gunsight(all are good) it becomes automatic.

Just look and shoot.

Mutley  :salute

 

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: CAP1 on September 30, 2009, 02:49:03 PM

Quote from: MutleyBR on September 30, 2009, 02:42:21 PM

Yes, I recall someone wrote something like that.

And there are other nice comments on the subject.

The purpose of this gunsight is to make it easier to guess distance/angle and decide when to shoot.

As you said before, many times we only have the opportunity for a snapshot, or quick action, and cannot afford the luxury of going into theory. Is this, the right angle? The right distance? etc

If one gets used to a gunsight(all are good) it becomes automatic.

Just look and shoot.

Mutley  :salute

 

i'm gonna give this a try. i've been leaving the default sights in my 38's o doom......but hell....maybe we can take my gunnery outta the pooper.  :aok

thanks dude!

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: HellFire on September 30, 2009, 03:02:11 PM

A Cheery Good Afternoon MutleyBR    :)

Thx for ur prompt reply to my query & in providing me with visual aids as to HOW to use the gunsight most effectively.  U've answered all my questions & plus some
 :aok :aok.   I've printed out the visual aid with instructions so that I'd be able to do the proper thing in my gunnery practice plus it's an excellent reference to hold on to .  Thx  :rock  :salute

Cheers   

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: MutleyBR on September 30, 2009, 03:11:08 PM

Quote from: CAP1 on September 30, 2009, 02:49:03 PM

i'm gonna give this a try. i've been leaving the default sights in my 38's o doom......but hell....maybe we can take my gunnery outta the pooper.  :aok

thanks dude!

When I train offline I use the .target XXX(where XXX is distance) to have a nice bullseye target, stabilize the airplane as much as possible and shoot, checking for the average position of hits for the chosen ammo/convergence. Different falloff for .50's 20mm and so on.
.target 0 to turn off, if I´m not mistaken.

Also useful for offline target practice are the setup items, found under "Arena Settings", "Plane Gun Ammo Multiplier" set to 10x normal max gun load and "protect Objects"set to off(Zero). So one doesn't have to rearm often and can attack/destroy object in your own field or town.

Another useful asset for offline training is "Computed Gunsight". To activate it go to Arena Settings and look for "Flight Mode Flags" in the list. Click on it and then mark "Lead Computed Gunsight".

Now, when you press TAB, the target most near to center of screen will be flagged with a cross as your aim point.

After you get used to that sight please tell me so I get out your way... :D

Mutley :salute

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: MutleyBR on September 30, 2009, 03:20:18 PM

Ah! Forgot to mention, hitting with rockets is kind of tricky...

Check this post:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,274937.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,274937.0.html)

and this:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,229165.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,229165.0.html)

or do a search in this Forum.  :aok

Mutley

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: The Fugitive on September 30, 2009, 04:00:24 PM

Here's a write up I had put together for the 444th Air Mafia site I use to maintain.

One of those "Clicky" type links (http://webpages.charter.net/maddogjoe/targeting.htm)

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: boomerlu on September 30, 2009, 04:15:02 PM

We have a loooong thread covering gunnery here:

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,273877.30.html

Pay special attention to the last few posts by mtnman.

Often, our shots in AH are "shotgun" nature rather than "rifle" nature. As such, a dot sight is the best for this type of shooting, it distracts you the least. On the other hand, it is helpful to have a fancier gunsight in those cases we are doing rifle shooting (i.e., using our gunsight to help judge lead taking into account range, angle off, etc).

So what I've come up with as the best compromise is to use a fancy gunsight like the US Mk8 sight with the center circle hollowed out such that I use only a dot in the center. In addition, I fade out the fancy elements outside the center circle. The center circle itself isn't faded out as it helps in very close in shots where the center dot may not easily be visible.

The advantages of this type of sight:
1) Pinpoint precision due to the center dot... allows you to "aim small, miss small".
2) Fancy rifle shooting elements are there when you need it, but faded so that they aren't distracting.
3) With close in shots and high line of sight rates, it may be difficult to precisely aim using the dot, so the bigger circle does the job of telling you approximately where the "center line is".

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: EskimoJoe on September 30, 2009, 07:24:41 PM

I downloaded the dot sight posted here and stuck it to my spitfire mk.8. It was amazing, and so much better for me than the mk.8 sight I used previously. Thanks  :eek:

Title: Re: gunnery improving gunsights
Post by: SlapShot on October 02, 2009, 08:35:07 AM

There is only 1 Dot 'O Death and it can be found here ...

http://www.dogfightersclub.org/gunsights/dot_o_death.htm