Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wilbus on August 05, 2000, 04:30:00 AM
-
Any plans on modelling the Ta152?
I know it didn't see much action during the war but it was the way Kurt Tank wanted the 190 too look from the beginning so it really is a MUST HAVE in Aces High, it's the ultimate 190 and the Ultimate plane.
Soooo, any plans on it in the near future?
------------------
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"
-
Hmm might be a bit too uber for the alied wussies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I can imagine they are already getting their panties all bunched up just thinking about it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) A possible perk plane?
-
Better perk it, 332mph@s/l is too fast by far.
-
Yeah Juzz, especially when people find out that the production models that flew in the War didn't have the MW50/GM1 boost systems, that give it such impressive performance numbers that most people quote.
Even with the boost systems, its going to be a disappointing plane for most people in the type of combat it would see in our Arena.
Just to let you know Wilbus, there was a grand total of 48 Ta-152's (46 152H0's and 2 152C's). And most of them were straffed on the ground before they saw combat.
Personally I would rather see a 190D9.
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
-
I want *sob* another 109
But since the G10 is the k in disguise no luck for me.
So I will settle for fixing the "prop drag" issues with the G10 ;D
------------------
StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
-
Idea 1. Rename current Me 109G-10 to Me 109K-4. Remodel Me 109G-10 with a less powerful engine in it. It would fill the big G-6 -> K-4 performance gap.
Idea 2. Rename Me 109G-6 as Me 109G-14, but with a DB605AS or DB605AM engine. Remodel Me 109G-6 as an earlier version without big tail and erla haube.
Idea 3. Force all 109 pilots to fly the new Dora. Bf 109D-1 that is. Powerful DB600A engine, 2 MG 17 and engine mounted MG FF with 160 rounds! What more could you desire?
-
Originally posted by juzz:
Idea 1. Rename current Me 109G-10 to Me 109K-4. Remodel Me 109G-10 with a less powerful engine in it. It would fill the big G-6 -> K-4 performance gap.
If you wanted a K-4 you'd have to add some more mph.
Idea 2. Rename Me 109G-6 as Me 109G-14, but with a DB605AS or DB605AM engine. Remodel Me 109G-6 as an earlier version without big tail and erla haube.
Why do that when the G-6 was the most manufactured G variant?
Idea 3. Force all 109 pilots to fly the new Dora. Bf 109D-1 that is. Powerful DB600A engine, 2 MG 17 and engine mounted MG FF with 160 rounds! What more could you desire?[/b]
Something with better guns... MG FF and MG 17 are crap...
btw juzz, do you even play AH?
-
Too fast? What if they add the 262? (I don't really want that 262 though)
And yes, I do know that there were only a few of the TA152's that ever saw action but they DID see action and that's a good enough reason to add it, atleast I think so.
------------------
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"
-
Nath, that 3rd ide was a troll (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
and a good one BTW (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
juzz I like your second idea...AFAIK G14 was a G6 with MW50, I dont remember more details about it.
Can someone bring some numbers on its performance? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Sorry Nath, our G-10 is as fast as a K-4 unless I'm reading the charts wrong.
-
Originally posted by juzz:
Idea 1. Rename current Me 109G-10 to Me 109K-4. Remodel Me 109G-10 with a less powerful engine in it. It would fill the big G-6 -> K-4 performance gap.
Idea 2. Rename Me 109G-6 as Me 109G-14, but with a DB605AS or DB605AM engine. Remodel Me 109G-6 as an earlier version without big tail and erla haube.
Idea 3. Force all 109 pilots to fly the new Dora. Bf 109D-1 that is. Powerful DB600A engine, 2 MG 17 and engine mounted MG FF with 160 rounds! What more could you desire?
Am I the ONLY one who finds only minor differences between the G-10 and G-6?
They both fly the same to me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Sure the G-10 is faster, but the G-6 is sooo much more stable during low speed manuvers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I like my G6's pretty paint job (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
- Jig
-
Someone post a pic of TA152 please.
Thanks!
-puta-
(http://www.cfsquad.com/ubb/smilies/usa.gif)
-
It's very similar to the Focke Wulf 190 D9, the long nosed 190.
The Ta152 is the way that Kurt Tank wanted the Fw190 to look like when he first designed it.
Tell me how to get a picture in here and I'll
post it, unless someone can get oicture of it in here.
------------------
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"
-
Ta152:
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/revvin/ta152a.gif)
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/revvin/ta152a.jpg)
Second one was captured, hence the allied markings
[This message has been edited by Revvin (edited 08-06-2000).]
-
MMMMMMMMM, what a beuty!!
------------------
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"
-
I bet the second set of markings saw more flying hours than the first set. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-
Actually, I believe the first picture is also of a captured bird, in American hands.
If I remember right when the American Intelligence units captured a plane it was marked with a "FE#" marking.
Which translates to "Foreign Equipment ###".
I can't remember where I read that, but it seems right.
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
-
It is right. I used to have a link to a url that had a list of all the FE numbers and what the aircraft were.
-Westy
-
Originally posted by Revvin:
Hmm might be a bit too uber for the alied wussies (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I can imagine they are already getting their panties all bunched up just thinking about it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) A possible perk plane?
You mean the Allied wussies who have yet to make one complaint against the idea of adding the Fw190D-9 or Ta152 and yet have to endure endless LW whining if we so much as mention that we want the Spitfire MkXIV or P-51H? This despite the FACT that the Spitfire MkXIV predates the Ta152 by more than a year?
<shakes head sadly>
I hope HTC puts the Fw190D-9 in soon. I think we should wait on the Ta152 a bit longer though. It would be nice to get a fighter with some high altitude performance so that we can manuever with, or maybe even out manuever (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif), the B-17s at 30,000ft though.
Sisu
-Karnak
-
uggggh...that bird is uglier than Roseanne Arnold...but one hell of a lot skinnier.. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Looks like a stickbug...how can u respect that? Besides, if it's ever modelled, I'll still have my 8x.50s and they know what to do to it..<g>
------------------
2nd Lt. Crapgame
62nd F.S.
56th F.G. "Zemke's Wolfpack"
-
Nothing against LW planes, but especially nearer the end of WW2, they had all kinds of planes they thought about building, built a very limited number of, that had little impact on the war.
IMHO, for a plane to make it to the MA, it should have seen significant production, not a plane that only saw 48 of it's type produced.
I personally would like to see the F6F, or the P47M or N introduced, but know that such an event is unlikely, as we already have the D-25 and D-30.
If HTC is going to implement limited production aircraft into the game, I wish they create a new arena, call it the "What If?" arena, and leave the insignificant ones out of the MA.
The P47M saw limited service, you say? Huh-uh. It was available in 1944, more than a year before the end of hostilities. Why do I think the LW folks would not want it added?
How about an initial climb rate of 4400ft/min at sea level, 4100 ft/min at 20K, and a top speed of 487, faster than even the G10. On the other hand, why not the 47M? We have the 109f, G2, G6, and G10, so why not one more P47, and eliminate the D-25?
Regardless, I respect others' opinions, regardless of whether I agree with them.
I agree that we need the 190D model, and it was Focke-Wulfe's answer to the need for a high altitude interceptor, which it did quite well.
For the Japanese, I think the KI-84 is long overdue, as it comes closer to competing with the P51, P38, and P47, not to mention the Spit and LW iron. The A6M5b is quite useless with the current planeset, except as a point defense interceptor, and God help you if a sharp 190 pilot is in the area, especially in an A5.
Just my thoughts fellas (and gals if applicable).
-
Hmmmmmmm, the Ta152 is not a "what if..." plane, it saw action, just like the 262 in very limited numbers, yes, the saw more but not that much.
You can add that to a "what if..." plane aswell but add it and the Ta152 to "what if they hade more...".
They both saw action wich makes em worth adding to the MA, personaly I don't like the 262 but it's worth adding.
I have no problem at all if HTC add Allied planes wich saw only saw very limited action, will only give the LW some more and tougher action.
I don't know if the P47M saw any action, if it did, it would be very nice to have.
P47M first flew in Mid 1944, 133 were built.
Top speed was 470Mph wich is the same as the Ta152H-0 I belive, not sure about the Ta152 speed.
The P47N had a top speed of 460Mph and quite many were built but did any of them see action?
I am an LW guy and have no problem at all with HTC adding late war planes, spit 14 and spit 21 would be very cool to have in there.
Spit 21 didn't see much action either though.
------------------
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"
-
Geez - TA152 a perk plane? Hmmm... A run-of-the-mill Dora (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) would beat the toejam outta this ugly mother unless the beating happens to be in stratosphere.
TA152 was designed as a high alt interceptor and would be at a disatvantage at "normal" altitudes.
------------------
-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
-
I belive P-47N seen action in Pacific theatre, it came just too late for ETO.
mx22
-
Originally posted by -lynx-:
Geez - TA152 a perk plane? Hmmm... A run-of-the-mill Dora (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) would beat the toejam outta this ugly mother unless the beating happens to be in stratosphere.
TA152 was designed as a high alt interceptor and would be at a disatvantage at "normal" altitudes.
-lynx-,
As I have already pointed out numerous times before, speed is life (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) And Ta-152 has plenty of it to escape from any plane. This is not to say I don't want it becase it's so fast or so uber, but simply because so few of them were produced. Some LW types might say that it saw combat, but this happened only because Germany at that time needed all it could. As a matter of fact, Ta-152 (both C and H) never completed full testing program because they couldn't produce enough planes for testing purposes on time.
I have already seen LW ask for planes like that, but at the same time they scream that Allied prototypes should not be modeled in the game, while in fact many of Allied prototypes were in fact better tested then some of the German so called "production" planes.
mx22
-
OK, lesse how long you live when those glider wings fold on you during a high speed pass in normall atmosphere (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). There are no "universally great planes". Something that excells at altitude will invariably suck lower down and vice versa. Unless it's a just a _good_ all-rounder like, say, err... umm.. Spit XIV? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Escape from any plane? Hmmmm... Wilbus above compares top speed of TA152 with that of 47M... What's missing in that comparison is the altitutde that speed was achieved, time to accelerate to it etc. As well as all other factors...
It is amazing how many times we compare apples and oranges seemingly talking about "the same" things like max speed, armament etc (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
------------------
-lynx-
13 Sqn RAF
-
I have original Focke-Wulf factory test data including speed vs altitude, and climb versus altitude for all the Ta152 varients. If you are interested, I can post the link here again. But I guarantee you that below 25,000 ft (and really up to 30,000ft) the 190D9 will totally out perform it.
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
[This message has been edited by Vermillion (edited 08-07-2000).]
-
F4U-4B Combat History Reference:
Here is one source of combat history of the F4U-4B. But I will say that true Corsairs fans will debate the subject endlessly over whether they were truely -1C's or -4B's.
F4U Corsair: Combat, Developement, and Racing History of the Corsair (Motorbooks International, Warbird History Series). By Nicholas Veronico, with John and Donna Campbell. ISBN#: 0-87938-854-4
F4U-4's and the new cannon equipped F4U-4B's flew into combat for the first time on April 7, 1945. While launching Corsairs of MAG-31 from the decks of the escort CV's USS Sitkoh Bay(CVE-86) and USS Breton (CVE-23), a Japanese Kawasaki Ki-48 "Lily" bomber on a Kamikaze mission was reported 10 miles from the carriers at an altitude of 500 ft. The Corsairs engaged the Lily, firing into the bombers engines and fueselage. Five pilots from VMF-311 riddled the bomber with 20mm cannon fire. Although heavily damaged, the Lily continued the attack on the Sitkoh Bay. About 50 yards from the ship, the Lily's starboard wing failed, and the bomber crashed short of the carrier
Here is a link to the book on Barnes&Noble's website. Its pretty good with alot of good pictures. Its softback and sales for $24.95
http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=47SN5N3D0X&mscssid=R9ME9M7FD4S92N9L001PQJ9WMWKBAAC2&isbn=0-87938-854-4 (http://shop.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=47SN5N3D0X&mscssid=R9ME9M7FD4S92N9L001PQJ9WMWKBAAC2&isbn=0-87938-854-4)
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
-
-lynx-,
Any plane with the speed close to P-51 is more then capable of surviving in the arena. Keep your speed up and do B&Z all day long.
Btw, it's speed wasn't even the point of my reply. The whole thing is no matter what people say, Ta-152 didn't go much farther then a prototype plane forced into production due to to the circumstances.
mx22
-
Wish I had my references with me but I don't. There were 2<?> Ta152 aces, and I think the final missions for the 152 were protecting Me262s during landings and take offs. <Though they were designed for high alt intercept.> Granted there had been less than 80 planes active by the end of the war, but they were involved in combat. Would be nice to have a Ta152 in the Defense of the Riech colors < I would perfer orange and red strips!>
I would love to to see the Ta152 fly, but do agree the Dora is required first! < ...And there shall be great wailing and gnashing of teeth that day.. > :-).
OTR,
Ash
I./JG2
-
Originally posted by Ash:
Wish I had my references with me but I don't. There were 2<?> Ta152 aces, and I think the final missions for the 152 were protecting Me262s during landings and take offs. <Though they were designed for high alt intercept.> Granted there had been less than 80 planes active by the end of the war, but they were involved in combat. Would be nice to have a Ta152 in the Defense of the Riech colors < I would perfer orange and red strips!>
I would love to to see the Ta152 fly, but do agree the Dora is required first! < ...And there shall be great wailing and gnashing of teeth that day.. > :-).
OTR,
Ash
I./JG2
In different thread someone asked for BF109-K14 and I answered sure if you also model F8F, SpitXIX and rest of Allied late war/ prototype planes that didn't reach frontlines. But would it be interesting to see people fly only these planes? Personally I joined the game to play WW2 planes, not prototypes.
mx22
-
MM, yes, it was wrong of me to compare the P47M and the Ta152 speeds, you're right about that it depends on the altitude and lots of other aspects. But they were both high alt planes and about as fast.
Belive the Ta152 H-1 had a speed of 472 Mph (don't know the alt) and the P47M 470Mph (don't know wich alt there either).
As to how many Ta152's that saw action, I belive it was 12 H-0 planes.
Like I said, I am an LW guy and have no problem at all if HTC add very late war Allied planes that didn't see much action.
It's fun aslong as some of them flew in the war.
Bring em on!
------------------
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"
-
mx22,
I'm missing your point. Ta152 was not a prototype and should be considered a WWII AC. Will need help here, but the ace recorded at least 10-12 kills in Ta152s exclusively. That claim cannot be made for the Bearcat, and P47M/N.
Ash
I./JG2
-
Originally posted by Wilbus:
It's fun aslong as some of them flew in the war.
That's the problem. Allied planes were tested far from combat areas. In addition Allies already had air superiority and didn't had to rush their planes into service. That's the reason LW had so many advanced fighters in the acctual service, while Allies relied upon proven designs.
P.S. I'll be happy with whatever planeset we will have, as far as it will contain advanced planes for ALL the nations, not just one or two. Though, of course, as I mentioned above, nothing beats mid-war planeset for me (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
mx22
-
Originally posted by Ash:
I'm missing your point. Ta152 was not a prototype and should be considered a WWII AC. Will need help here, but the ace recorded at least 10-12 kills in Ta152s exclusively. .
Ash
I./JG2
Where did you found Ta-152 aces with 10-12 kills? The only Ta152 ace I know of is Josef Keil credited with 5 kills in Ta152. I've got "Focke-Wulf TA 152 The Story of the Luftwaffe's Late-War, High-Altitude Fighter" book by Dietmar Harmann here with me and he's the only guy who mentioned there as an ace in Ta-152 (at least that's what I have found so far, I'll look again though I doubt there is more info).
P.S. If you like the plane so much go get this book. Read about how many planes were planned to test and how many were acctually built. Germany was desperate for a new high altitude interseptor and that's why Ta152 was forced into the service even though testing wasn't nowhere nearly finished and planes were constantly braking down.
mx22
[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 08-07-2000).]
-
MX22 is right, the book he references is the best I have EVER seen for the Ta-152. If your a Ta152/Fw190 devotee its a must.
Wilbus, there were a total of 48 production model Ta-152s completed total, with probably 2-3 times that many partially completed airframes that were captured by the Allies when they overan the factories. There were 2 Ta-152C's, and 46 Ta-152H0's. If a Ta152H1 ever saw combat it was one of the prototypes, and even that is highly in question according to FockeWulf factory records.
Also at least half of the production aircraft never saw combat due to being destroyed on the ground by Allied aircraft strafing. For instance on 16 January 45, 14 brand new aircraft were destroyed on the ground at Cottbus. The largest total combat strength of Ta152's ever was the initial shipment of 11 aircraft to III/JG301 on 27 January 45. Typical combat strength thereafter was 7 to 8 aircraft.
Ash, the story that Ta-152's were used to cover the airfields for the landings and takeoffs for the Me262 is a total myth. The book listed above goes into this in great detail.
------------------
Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
-
Like I said vermilion, the planes that saw action were the H-0's.
I never said that the H-1 saw action, I just said that it had a top speed of 472Mph.
Like Ash said, there were Aces in the Ta152 and that makes it an operational WW2 Airplane.
The Do335 however, never saw action nor did they have any finnished aircraft before the war ended. THAT makes it a "What if..." plane.
------------------
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"
-
Wilbus,
In your words all of the Allied late war planes/prototypes that even got more testing and flying time before the end of the war then LW's Ta152 are not eligable as WW2 fighters.
Once again, if Germany would not have been so desperate for a new fighter design, Ta-152 would have never went into operational service. In the book mentioned above, p107 one of the pilots who flew Ta152s says that his unit's 8 Ta152s (Stab JG11) "all apperead to have been test aircraft since no two were alike". If that's what you call production model planes capable of full operational status, then I will have to agree with you, but I doubt anyone here will make such a claim.
mx22
-
Ash and Wilbus, P-47M and P-47N flew way more sorties than Ta 152, probably more than Fw 190D. P-47N service against Japan was quite extensive.
Some Do 335 were finished well before the end of the war.
P-51H and F8F were in full production, and in service with combat-ready units. But they were not needed to defeat the axis, so they weren't hurried into battle like some of the Nazis' planes.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-07-2000).]
-
Ok MX22, let's get this straight once and for all. I have never EVER said that the Allied planes aren't worty as WW2 planes, I said the EXACT opposite man!
Wich part didn't you understand???
I said that if a P47 or any other allied plane that saw action, although little action should be seen as WORLD WAR II (TWO) Planes.
Just as the Ta152.
You are trying to turn this into me, not aproving with HTC adding allied planes because they should be better?
I haven't said this, read the above posts from me and you'll notice it.
------------------
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"
-
Originally posted by Wilbus:
Originally posted by Wilbus:
It's fun aslong as some of them flew in the war.
How much more prove do you need?
P.S. Please try to mantain freindly conversation here. I might have misunderstood you somewhere, but I guess it's not the reason to start the war.
mx22
[This message has been edited by mx22 (edited 08-07-2000).]
-
FYI, the first P-47N's arrived on Okinawa in Mar 45 with the 318th FG. Later the 413th and 507th FG's arrived in the Pacific by Jun 45.
The 318th itself scored 48 kills in the last week of May in P-47N's to the loss of just 3 planes. From what I have read, P-47N's produced at least 10 aces and scored over 100 kills between the FG's that flew it.
------------------
Lt Col Dune
X.O. 352nd Fighter Group (http://www.352ndfightergroup.com)
"The Blue Nosed Bastards of Bodney"
"Credo quia absurdum est." (I believe it because it is unreasonable)
- The motto of the Republic of Baja Arizona
-
a
[This message has been edited by MC202 (edited 08-08-2000).]
-
OOPS, above was ment to go to Wish list thread, sorry!!!
Dino in Reno
MC202
-
CC, MX22, I appologize for being rude.
"It's fun as long as some of them flew in the war" does not in anyway mean that the allied planes that saw little action should be left out and the german planes that saw little action should be taken in.
I am 100% possitive yo ALL planes as long as they saw some kind of action in just more then 1 prototype. The Ta152 had about 12 aircraft that saw action and they were all H-0 model. H-0 was the only model that they produced more then 1 of I THINK, not sure though, someone please correct me there if I am wrong.
I compare this with the DO335 wich never saw any action and only had a few prototypes that took off from the airfield. They never engaged the enemy nor did the enemy engage them. I am not even sure if the Do335 flew with armement.
The Do335 is the one and only plane I want to fly more then the Ta152 but I don't want it in a WW2 sim since it never saw Action during the war.
If an allied plane, such as the P51H saw action, let's say just 10 of them, then please, add it, it would make a fine plane in there.
I don't only fly LW planes (mostly but not allways) I love the P47 so I say please add em if they saw action.
------------------
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 "EisMeer"
-
Wilbus, it's the "seeing action" thing which is the trouble. Germany was desperate for planes. Any completed airworthy plane had a chance of seeing action. By contrast the Allies were developing their planes far from the front, and were happy to win the war with the planes in theatre.
Any discussion of which planes to allow and which not to allow based (edit) solely (/edit) on whether they "saw action" is inevitably biased towards the LW.
(edit) Just as solely using production numbers is biased towards the US and Russia. I don't think there's any easy formula for inclusion - it's a matter of judgement, HT's judgement in this case (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) (/edit)
[This message has been edited by Bombjack (edited 08-08-2000).]
-
Same argument, different names...
-
That's the point Bombjack! The Americans had a lot of stuff in Squadron service by the end of the war. These planes would have been in combat if they were needed.
I say if you add planes like the Ta-152, then all the planes that were in service by the Allies should be added.
If you wanted to be "fair" you'd use one standard of the LW and Japan and another for the Allies. How about something like this: If the LW made 10, lets have them.
If the Allies had it in squadron service, lets have them.
The LW should get all of theirs first and maybe some of them will shut the heck up already (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
PC
-
Let me use this a simple sports analogy to explain why only using aircraft that "saw action" is fallible and bogus.
Say you want to recreate the 1975 World Series. Should you be only allowed to use in your virtual re-creation only those that saw actual game time? Why? That only favours the losing side as they are typically the ones who usually put every pitcher into the game in order to find the one that will stop the other side from gaining more runs. The losing team ends up tossing everyone into the game to try and pull out a victory or at least stop an onslaught. What then about the winning side? They had ace pitchers standing by too. And hot pinchhitters who could have been put into use also. But they weren't needed as bad as the losing team needed thier players. So some of th winning team players spend the time warming the bench? Would that mean you cannot use them because they did not back then? Lousy analogy maybe...
Perhaps the folks who maintain the "it never saw combat" as the dividing line that's not to be crossed can see my point and why it unfairly favours the Axis. I'm not talking the prototypes that never went into production or left the drawing board. Fact is if it was produced and entered into service by Sept 1945 it was a WWII aircraft. Whether it saw action or not. The difference is the Allies did not have the desperation that the Axis had to push those crates out the door to stem the war over thier own homelands. Just the same, however, the Allies had just as good if not better aircraft in many cases than the Axis did - notable exception being the ME-262. The difference is the Allies did no have the same need to rush them into the combat theatres to fight off the enemy. And that is because basically by 1945 there was hardly any aircraft up in the skies any more in 1945 - as compared to 1939 and up to 1943.
-Westy