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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: badhorse on October 04, 2009, 07:22:53 AM

Title: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: badhorse on October 04, 2009, 07:22:53 AM
Pyro a couple of years ago I asked why it was that someone in a tank could kill another tank that had no obvious damage (still moving and shooting) and only get an assist because someone had strafed it first.

At that time you said it was due to the tracks taking the damage and that out weighed the damage the "kill" shot had.

You said you were going to look into fixing that.   How's it going?
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: EskimoJoe on October 04, 2009, 07:24:50 AM
I'm curious as well  :huh
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Strip on October 04, 2009, 07:26:40 AM
The satisfaction of watching the guy blow up isn't enough?

You have to make sure the poor guy knows who really killed him I guess....

Strip
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Lusche on October 04, 2009, 07:53:02 AM
The satisfaction of watching the guy blow up isn't enough?

No.

Slugging it out in a T34 with several enemy Shermans, just to see all your kills are getting credited to that guy strafing them in his P-51 can be quite frustrating.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Lord ReDhAwK on October 04, 2009, 08:50:06 AM
No.

Slugging it out in a T34 with several enemy Shermans, just to see all your kills are getting credited to that guy strafing them in his P-51 can be quite frustrating.

Quoted for truth.   :cool:
ReDhAwK
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: EskimoJoe on October 04, 2009, 08:52:10 AM
Note to self : no more strafing tanks in an IL-2 on a gv vs gv battlefield...

Sorry gents, didn't know it pissed y'all off  :confused:
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Lusche on October 04, 2009, 08:55:50 AM
Note to self : no more strafing tanks in an IL-2 on a gv vs gv battlefield...

Sorry gents, didn't know it pissed y'all off  :confused:

I don't have any problems with players strafing in Il2's or Hurri D. Their weapons are actually capable of killing tanks. I just despise the tagging of GVs with machine guns in hope of getting the kill credit.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: EskimoJoe on October 04, 2009, 08:58:26 AM
I don't have any problems with players strafing in Il2's or Hurri D. Their weapons are actually capable of killing tanks. I just despise the tagging of GVs with machine guns in hope of getting the kill credit.
Ah, well, I can see how that would be a real bugger. I'll be sure to yell at any tard I catch doing that  :P

 :salute
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 04, 2009, 09:07:38 AM
I just despise the tagging of GVs with machine guns in hope of getting the kill credit.

It's not hope, it's certainty. :P
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: bmwgs on October 04, 2009, 09:11:55 AM
  :rolleyes:  And I thought all this time score doesn't matter.

Fred
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Lusche on October 04, 2009, 09:15:20 AM
 :rolleyes:  And I thought all this time score doesn't matter.

Fred

Who's talking about score?
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Spikes on October 04, 2009, 09:16:48 AM
 :rolleyes:  And I thought all this time score doesn't matter.

Fred
This isn't about score.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: EskimoJoe on October 04, 2009, 09:21:30 AM
Score? I didn't see any mention of score  :huh
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 04, 2009, 09:22:08 AM
 :rolleyes:  And I thought all this time score doesn't matter.

Fred

Eh, I think he's right.  This about score keeping, and Fred did well at poking fun at the blanket statements we are in the habit of making.

Your cumulative score at the end of the tour might no matter, but we sure do care about scoring a kill for the correct player!  That much is obvious from all of the snide responses. :devil
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: EskimoJoe on October 04, 2009, 09:26:41 AM
The only reason I posted was to imagine the reaction of humor on the reader's face after reading three of those posts in a row after one of those posts.. If you follow me. I imagined the situation to be something right out of a movie, priceless  :lol

Eh, I think he's right.  This about score keeping, and Fred did well at poking fun at the blanket statements we are in the habit of making.

Your cumulative score at the end of the tour might no matter, but we sure do care about scoring a kill for the correct player!  That much is obvious from all of the snide responses. :devil

Indeed we do  :aok
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: MjTalon on October 04, 2009, 09:32:35 AM
Lusche, I don't have the films anymore due to my old cpu dying but I was able to drop two panzers with .50cals only in a P-47. And it was confirmed kills, wasn't any friendly tanks around.

Came around with 3-4 second bursts on it's weak point on the back of the tank but it look about 5-8 passes roughly but It can be done.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 04, 2009, 09:39:49 AM
Lusche, I don't have the films anymore due to my old cpu dying but I was able to drop two panzers with .50cals only in a P-47. And it was confirmed kills, wasn't any friendly tanks around.

Came around with 3-4 second bursts on it's weak point on the back of the tank but it look about 5-8 passes roughly but It can be done.

Those aren't the films you posted where you claimed a kill with .50cals, but in fact there were friendly tanks firing at your target?  I'd love to see you repeat this feat.  Clearly, you don't need to find the old films, you can make new ones. :devil
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: MjTalon on October 04, 2009, 09:41:08 AM
Those aren't the films you posted where you claimed a kill with .50cals, but in fact there were friendly tanks firing at your target?  I'd love to see you repeat this feat.  Clearly, you don't need to find the old films, you can make new ones. :devil

If it is then disregard, it's been so long but I don't mind making a new one at all.
 :)
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Lusche on October 04, 2009, 09:41:49 AM
Lusche, I don't have the films anymore due to my old cpu dying but I was able to drop two panzers with .50cals only in a P-47. And it was confirmed kills, wasn't any friendly tanks around.

Came around with 3-4 second bursts on it's weak point on the back of the tank but it look about 5-8 passes roughly but It can be done.


They may just have ended sortie, giving you the kills.

I am now killing GVs and tanking daily for 4 years, and have never ever seen anyone actually killing a tank with 50 cals, nor was I able to do it myself. And not a single one of my ~2500 deaths in tanks happened due to being strafed by .50 cals.

But I witnessed literally hundreds, (if not thousand) of kills wrongfully getting credited to the strafer.
And I'm sure many of them will continue just because "I have heard someone killed a tank with .50 cals" ;)


But of course I'm available for some tests... if it can be done, it shouldn't be that difficult to diplicate this feat with a non-moving willing target like me :)


Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: MjTalon on October 04, 2009, 09:44:53 AM
Well we can sure test it, I don't mind at all Lushce.

Time & place?  :)
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Lusche on October 04, 2009, 09:54:12 AM
Time & place?  :)

Time - your call..send me a PM here or ingame if ya catch me online (but I'm frequently AFk in tower, so bear with me if you seem to get ignored)

Place - I think best one is MW, easier to find a place where we can do that without interference.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Karnak on October 04, 2009, 10:18:05 AM
I won't even strafe a tank with Hispanos anymore. Its useless and just asking for a pilot wound for no gain.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: rabbidrabbit on October 04, 2009, 10:47:04 AM
I believe you can still track a tank with 50 cals and 20mm.  If I remember the original thread properly, the tracks could absorb large amounts of damage so someone could strafe tanks with 30 or 50 cals and get credit for kills even though they effectively did little towards killing the tank.  Essentially, the cumulative damage of each of those little hits would exceed the damage credited for the kill shot form another tank or bomb thus give the stealer credit for a kill.  That's why you saw guys strafing the heck out of tanks with hurri 1's.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: MjTalon on October 04, 2009, 10:49:06 AM
CC Lusche, I'll toss you a PM around 3pm (EST)
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Boozeman on October 04, 2009, 10:49:52 AM
Doesn't the AH damage system award the kill to the guy that did the most damage to the target rather then the guy that finishes it off? As far as I understand it, thats the way it goes in A2A at least...

Now lets assume a guy in a P-51 put half of his ammo on a T34, thats 1100 lbs worth of ordnance recorded, however the only real damage done is the messed up paintjob on the tank.

Now there's a guy in a Panzer, and scores a well placed 75 mm AP killshot - tank dead, but only about 70 lbs worth of ordnance recorded... kill goes to the P-51?!

Seems too easy in my book, but I rarely do strafe tanks in non-tankbuster AC...  
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Karnak on October 04, 2009, 10:52:17 AM
Doesn't the AH damage system award the kill to the guy that did the most damage to the target rather then the guy that finishes it off? As far as I understand it, thats the way it goes in A2A at least...

Now lets assume a guy in a P-51 put half of his ammo on a T34, thats 1100 lbs worth of ordnance recorded, however the only real damage done is the messed up paintjob on the tank.

Now there's a guy in a Panzer, and scores a well placed 75 mm AP killshot - tank dead, but only about 70 lbs worth of ordnance recorded... kill goes to the P-51?!

Seems too easy in my book, but I rarely do strafe tanks in non-tankbuster AC...  
Yes, but bullet hits to tank armor in AH don't do any damage.  The P-51 gets 0 credit for a round that hits the armor.  The treads do take damage though and that is where the P-51 gets his steal.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Lusche on October 04, 2009, 10:58:23 AM
Ahh, I know why this happens.  It's the tracks.  They are a damageable component and can soak up a large quantity of damage from light cannon and MG which unbalances the kill awarding.  I'll have to see if there's a way that HT can alter the awarding of GV kills to take that into account.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Boozeman on October 04, 2009, 11:00:18 AM
Ah, I see. At least that makes it a little more difficult though. Still, should not happen...

Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: vonKrimm on October 04, 2009, 11:19:33 AM
I don't have any problems with players strafing in Il2's or Hurri D. Their weapons are actually capable of killing tanks. I just despise the tagging of GVs with machine guns in hope of getting the kill credit.

Well, what about when a pilot is being asked to mark the enemy GVs so that the friendly GVs can maneuver to take the killing shot.  If been the pilot that gets the kill because I makred 'em at the request of friendly GVs; I've also been the GVer that has not gotten the kill when an enemy GV was marked by an a/c even though I put the killing round into 'em.  I feel bad in the former and annoyed in the later; but I look at it as all balancing out (karma).
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Lusche on October 04, 2009, 11:20:54 AM
Well, what about when a pilot is being asked to mark the enemy GVs so that the friendly GVs can maneuver to take the killing shot. 

I shoot the ground close to it, not the tank itself.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Jayhawk on October 04, 2009, 01:13:32 PM
Well I've learned a lot today.  I'll keep this in mind next time I'm flying over a tank battle.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: EskimoJoe on October 04, 2009, 02:30:32 PM
Well I've learned a lot today.  I'll keep this in mind next time I'm flying over a tank battle.
:rofl
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: E25280 on October 04, 2009, 10:04:17 PM
I shoot the ground close to it, not the tank itself.
Ditto.

It would be nice if this was resolved.  It isn't just the GVers that get the short end of the stick -- IL-2s and those using ord to kill GVs get their kills stolen regularly as well.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Pyro on October 04, 2009, 10:46:43 PM
I don't know who Pryo is, but if he had any inside info he would tell you that there is a change in that area about to come into play very soon.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: mensa180 on October 04, 2009, 10:52:07 PM
Thanks secret agent number 1, I'll pass along the info and make sure Pyro doesn't catch me.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Baumer on October 04, 2009, 11:47:41 PM
 :noid :noid :noid :noid :noid         :noid :noid
        :noid         :noid                 :noid     :noid
        :noid         :noid                 :noid :noid
        :noid         :noid                 :noid
      :noid        :noid                 :noid


has spoken, or has he?
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: vonKrimm on October 05, 2009, 12:40:23 AM
I don't know who Pryo is, but if he had any inside info he would tell you that there is a change in that area about to come into play very soon.

May we, the unwashed plebeian mass beg one more favor?  Might Pyro tell us: Will the "change" be before or after then con?
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: kilz on October 05, 2009, 12:55:58 AM
I don't know who Pryo is, but if he had any inside info he would tell you that there is a change in that area about to come into play very soon.
:aok
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Chalenge on October 05, 2009, 01:59:00 AM
Another wish soon to be realized!!!
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: OOZ662 on October 05, 2009, 02:00:34 AM
Baumer, it frightens me how much time you must've spent on that. :lol As to this:

I don't know who Pryo is, but if he had any inside info he would tell you that there is a change in that area about to come into play very soon.

:x
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: AWwrgwy on October 05, 2009, 02:01:53 AM
May we, the unwashed plebeian mass beg one more favor?  Might Pyro tell us: Will the "change" be before or after then con?

What change?  

I don't know who Pryo is, but if he had any inside info he would tell you that there is a change in that area about to come into play very soon.

We can deduce that if this Pyro fella actually has no inside information then there is no change forthcoming.

2 weeks

 :noid

wrongway
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: badhorse on October 05, 2009, 08:27:06 AM
I don't know who Pryo is, but if he had any inside info he would tell you that there is a change in that area about to come into play very soon.

Well if you ever meet him, please thank him for me and tell him "You've made my heart soar like a hawk".
 :x
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Lusche on October 05, 2009, 08:37:21 AM
I don't know who Pryo is, but if he had any inside info he would tell you that there is a change in that area about to come into play very soon.

GV's are getting removed from the game?  :noid
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: vonKrimm on October 05, 2009, 09:04:14 AM
GV's are getting removed from the game?  :noid
NOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooo!!!???
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Shuffler on October 05, 2009, 09:40:47 AM
I'm sure the ground game is being treated just as it is ... filler.  :D
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 05, 2009, 09:43:00 AM
I gotta admit that the death of Combat Tour is improving the game.  New terrain, new aircraft, new ENY, updated Il-2 and Wirbelwind, etc.  Keep it coming. :aok
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: SWrokit on October 05, 2009, 10:02:52 AM
Well, what about when a pilot is being asked to mark the enemy GVs so that the friendly GVs can maneuver to take the killing shot.  If been the pilot that gets the kill because I makred 'em at the request of friendly GVs; I've also been the GVer that has not gotten the kill when an enemy GV was marked by an a/c even though I put the killing round into 'em.  I feel bad in the former and annoyed in the later; but I look at it as all balancing out (karma).

Used to all the time mark nme GV's in this manner, giving it no second thoughts, just trying to be helpful to those on the ground.  Until one day one of my squaddies (who was on the ground at the time) began griping because I was causing him to lose the kill.  I immediately understood his pain, cause I been there, done that.  From that point on I began marking by circling (giving range), and if needed I do exactly what Lusche stated...........lay in tracers close to, but without hitting the GV.

<S>
Rokit
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Shuffler on October 05, 2009, 10:13:40 AM
I have to point out position as my tracers are off. Passing over the target I also look at friendly and give him the RTT. If you pass close enough to a friendly that is sitting still note where his barrel is pointing then give direction degree left or right of barrel.

I pick on you GV'ers out of fun.... but I do try to help you folks all I can when I am in your vacinity.


Ya Dweebs  :D
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: rabbidrabbit on October 05, 2009, 11:10:32 AM
I'm pretty sure friendlies see your tracers whether you have them on or off.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Shuffler on October 05, 2009, 11:13:03 AM
I'm pretty sure friendlies see your tracers whether you have them on or off.
Nope... not that I am aware of.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Karnak on October 05, 2009, 12:02:51 PM
I don't know who Pryo is, but if he had any inside info he would tell you that there is a change in that area about to come into play very soon.
Any chance this change might also affect the way somebody can get credit for shooting down a wingless wreck, leaving the guy who dewinged it with an assist?
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Pyro on October 05, 2009, 04:06:15 PM
Any chance this change might also affect the way somebody can get credit for shooting down a wingless wreck, leaving the guy who dewinged it with an assist?

This change doesn't affect that.  That's a different change not related to this one.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Karnak on October 05, 2009, 04:38:34 PM
This change doesn't affect that.  That's a different change not related to this one.
Well, one can still hope for it someday.

Good change for the tanks though.  :aok
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: Baumer on October 06, 2009, 12:03:38 AM
 I was just   :noid

That's a different change not related to this one.

Now I'm   :noid ^2

 :)
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: EskimoJoe on October 06, 2009, 01:38:16 AM
Pyro, keeping us (somewhat) in the loop. Good man  :P
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: vonKrimm on October 06, 2009, 01:41:05 AM
Scuttlebutt is reporting that the KOREAN WAR is about to be added.  However, the Gnomish Bankers of Switzerland will neither confirm or deny the authenticity of the speculation.
Title: Re: Pryo - - Still waiting
Post by: EskimoJoe on October 06, 2009, 01:42:09 AM
Scuttlebutt is reporting that the KOREAN WAR is about to be added.  However, the Gnomish Bankers of Switzerland will neither confirm or deny the authenticity of the speculation.

It explains the palm trees...

Uh oh.


 :noid