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General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Scherf on October 07, 2009, 04:30:25 PM

Title: Widewing, Ack-Ack, Guppy, SAPP guys
Post by: Scherf on October 07, 2009, 04:30:25 PM

Does anyone know if there is a "Massively nerdy F-5 operations expert" somewhere out there on the web?

A German researcher has asked me if I have any leads re: a jet/Lightning incident over southern Germany in early October '44. (I was helping him with Mosquito-related stuff, and as his English isn't so good, I've become his Mouth of Sauron, so to speak.)

The recce craft apparently approached from the south, so this might have been an Italy-based craft.

Any suggestions re: where to start?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Title: Re: Widewing, Ack-Ack, Guppy, SAPP guys
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 07, 2009, 05:02:42 PM

Don't know about of the F-5s reports about encountering any German jets but there is a combat report from the 434th FS / 479th FG about a P-38 engagement where one of the Raiders shot down a Me 163.


ack-ack

Title: Re: Widewing, Ack-Ack, Guppy, SAPP guys
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 08, 2009, 04:20:31 AM

Digging around a little more, Capt. Arthur Jeffrey is credited with the first encounter and kill of a Me 163 while flying his P-38J "Boomerang".

Quote

July 29, 1944. Captain Arthur Jeffrey, flying Boomerang, a P-38J Lightning of the 434th Fighter Squadron, is credited with the first encounter and aerial victory over the Messerschmitt Me-163, the world's first rocket powered interceptor. Picking up the German at about 11,000 feet as it began a pass at a crippled B-17, Jeffrey turned into the fighter forcing it to turn away. Boomerang pursued the Komet up to 16,000 feet when it executed a hard left turn, losing precious airspeed. Jeffrey closed on the rocket and opened fire at 300 yards, registering multiple strikes. The Komet then dove hard for the cloud deck below, disappearing into it at about 3,000 feet at over 550 mph. The Me-163's flight envelope indicates that a pullout would have been impossible given the 90 degree dive angle, speed and low altitude.

This is the only P-38 engagement I know of against a Komet.

(http://www.danzoernig.com/illustrations/images/gallery/ZOE-49details.jpg)


ack-ack

Title: Re: Widewing, Ack-Ack, Guppy, SAPP guys
Post by: Scherf on October 08, 2009, 04:40:35 AM

Thanks for that - in the encounter I'm chasing, the P-38 was on the receiving end, but managed to dive away (!) from the jet with damage, so it seems.

This was on 7 October '44. There was a similar incident the previous day near Arnhem.

Title: Re: Widewing, Ack-Ack, Guppy, SAPP guys
Post by: Guppy35 on October 08, 2009, 06:54:44 PM

Might want to check with the guy behind this website.  34th Photo recce guys  F-5s

http://www.34thprs.org/html/home.html

Title: Re: Widewing, Ack-Ack, Guppy, SAPP guys
Post by: morfiend on October 08, 2009, 07:11:03 PM

 found this little snippet for ya,hope it helpls.

   :salute

  http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archive/index.php?t-537.html

Title: Re: Widewing, Ack-Ack, Guppy, SAPP guys
Post by: Guppy35 on October 08, 2009, 07:31:18 PM

According to Freeman's "Mighty Eighth War Diary" the 7th Photo Recon Group had 29 F-5s operating over Germany that day.  No losses.  No mention of running into a jet either.

Title: Re: Widewing, Ack-Ack, Guppy, SAPP guys
Post by: Scherf on October 11, 2009, 07:22:45 PM

Many thanks gents.

I know that at some point 60 SAAF shared some P-38s with an American Squadron in Italy, perhaps it was one of theirs.