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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: TwinEng on October 08, 2009, 09:03:16 AM

Title: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: TwinEng on October 08, 2009, 09:03:16 AM
Last week a drunk and unruly 21 yr old man was asked to leave the Veterans of Foreign Wars post in Valley Falls, NY.   Upset over his ejection, the 21 yr old proceeded to cut down the flag flying out in front of the VFW, and promptly burned it with his cigarette lighter.  Unfortunately for the young man, it turned out that the flag had been a gift sent to this VFW post recently from local troops currently serving in Iraq.

The post commander, Vietnam Veteran Nick Normile, got several veterans together, and organized a hunt for the young man.   Two days later, they finally caught up with him.

The 21 yr old then found himself taken prisoner by the veterans, who transported him back to the VFW post, and then duct taped him to the very flagpole that he had desecrated.  They then hung a sign around his head, proclaiming the offense that the young man had committed.

For over six hours he remained taped to the flagpole, exposed out in the hot sunshine, as local citizens passing by heaped score and ridicule on him.

Afterward, Nick Normile was quoted as saying: "He'll never disrespect the flag again, I can tell you that."

So far, both New York State police and Rensselaer County sheriffs deputies have all said that they have no plans to file any charges over the incident.


Here is a link to a complete news story about the incident:

http://www.military.com/news/article/flag-burner-pilloried-by-veterans.html


--

Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Strip on October 08, 2009, 10:32:33 AM
So far, both New York State police and Rensselaer County sheriffs deputies have all said that they have no plans to file any charges over the incident.

 :salute

Sometimes a little vigilante justice needs to be looked over....

Bet that guy learned a lot more than any monetary or judicial punishment would have taught him.
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Reschke on October 08, 2009, 10:41:49 AM
Lucky that is all he got.
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Stalwart on October 08, 2009, 11:45:02 AM
He's luck level headed people caught him.
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: CAP1 on October 08, 2009, 11:45:38 AM
'bout time somebody stood up.  :aok :salute
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Masherbrum on October 08, 2009, 11:47:12 AM
 :salute Nick Normile and Thank You for serving "In Country".   
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Mickey1992 on October 08, 2009, 12:04:49 PM
"State troopers and Rensselaer County sheriffs deputies said no charges had been filed by either the VFW post or the man."

I bet his phone is ringing off the hook from lawyers calling him.
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: batch on October 08, 2009, 12:29:27 PM
yep right now hes just a little too embarrassed to file suit or press charges..... give it a few days and a few discussions with a lawyer and several people will be arrested and lawsuits filed

he got what he deserved..... but the rule of law says he wins
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Chalenge on October 08, 2009, 01:52:17 PM
The same treatment applied to any lawyer that takes that case would go a long way in my book!  :aok
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Vulcan on October 08, 2009, 02:28:36 PM
The same treatment applied to any lawyer that takes that case would go a long way in my book!  :aok

same treatment as what happened to the flag you mean  :devil
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: RTHolmes on October 08, 2009, 02:31:15 PM
is it a criminal offense to burn a national flag in the US?
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: crazyivan on October 08, 2009, 02:42:18 PM
6 hrs. in nice 80 degree sunshine as punishment. What was he a vampire ?  :t
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: John Curnutte on October 08, 2009, 03:04:25 PM
 The offender got off lucky , period six hours in the sun in NY , put him in Phoenix would have been better .
               Nutte :airplane:
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Regular on October 08, 2009, 03:11:20 PM
I would love to see a picture of that guy on the pole. lol
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: USRanger on October 08, 2009, 03:28:23 PM
is it a criminal offense to burn a national flag in the US?

I believe it is a legal right, yes.  But let me EVER catch someone doing it.  I will be in jail with a smile.
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: allaire on October 08, 2009, 03:34:25 PM
According to the courts Burning a US flag is 1st amendment protected act. :mad:  Not that it matters most people don't have a clue about flag code anymore. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: AWwrgwy on October 08, 2009, 04:00:59 PM
I believe it is a legal right, yes.  But let me EVER catch someone doing it.  I will be in jail with a smile.

No political comments.  Holding my tongue.

IN



wrongway
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: USRanger on October 08, 2009, 04:04:44 PM
Bring it.
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: dBeav on October 08, 2009, 04:35:26 PM
is it a criminal offense to burn a national flag in the US?
No but it is an offense to destroy private property. He would still lose in the end.
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 08, 2009, 04:38:42 PM
Burning your own flag as a sign of protest is legal and protected by the constitution.

Burning the flag of someone else is just petty vandalism and a disgrace.
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Bosco123 on October 08, 2009, 04:39:37 PM
It is NOT a criminal offense becasue it's using your right to the first amendment.
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Shuffler on October 08, 2009, 04:46:45 PM
It is NOT a criminal offense becasue it's using your right to the first amendment.

You missed that it is someone elses flag.


Otherwise I could burn down your house to piss you off.  lol

So because of some low class folks they can buy a flag and burn it and still live here.
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: 1pLUs44 on October 08, 2009, 04:51:12 PM
You missed that it is someone elses flag.


Otherwise I could burn down your house to piss you off.  lol

So because of some low class folks they can buy a flag and burn it and still live here.

But if you burn down your own house, isn't that arson?

 :noid
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Shuffler on October 08, 2009, 05:11:04 PM
But if you burn down your own house, isn't that arson?

 :noid

Aww heck another twist  :D
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Golfer on October 08, 2009, 05:43:51 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: potsNpans on October 08, 2009, 06:14:45 PM
See Rule #14
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: USRanger on October 08, 2009, 06:35:29 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Golfer on October 08, 2009, 06:51:46 PM
See Rule #2
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: USRanger on October 08, 2009, 07:10:34 PM
See Rule #2
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Golfer on October 08, 2009, 07:16:18 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: TwinEng on October 08, 2009, 07:17:11 PM
It is NOT a criminal offense becasue it's using your right to the first amendment.

You forget, though, that he was trespassing on the VFW post's property at that time.   They had already told him to leave their premises earlier.   He had no legal right at that point to even be on their property, let alone steal their flag, and destroy it.   That flag belonged to the VFW also.   So he destroyed their private property.

Whenever the police look at any assault or dispute between two parties, they take a hard look as to who was responsible for PROVOKING the situation.   Yes, what was done to the young man was most likely illegal, but the question is this:  DID HE ASK FOR IT??

Can you honestly say anything other than YES ??

P.S.  --  In disputes like this, police also have a tendency to side against any party that was intoxicated.   The young man's drunken state obviously played a role here in causing the dispute.  People have a responsibility to not get drunk, and turn into obnoxious jerks that cause trouble.

--

Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: TwinEng on October 08, 2009, 07:22:08 PM
See Rule #2
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: OOZ662 on October 08, 2009, 07:42:05 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: TwinEng on October 08, 2009, 07:48:58 PM
No but it is an offense to destroy private property. He would still lose in the end.


The other problem that he would also face if he tried to bring a lawsuit is that the same local folks who heaped verbal abuse on him while he was taped to the flagpole, would be the folks in the jury pool.

My feeling about this story is that this dude is probably the disgrace of this little local community.

-
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: SoonerMP on October 08, 2009, 07:59:12 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: eagl on October 08, 2009, 08:04:05 PM
is it a criminal offense to burn a national flag in the US?

No, but trespassing, vandalism, theft, and destruction of property are all crimes.

Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: stodd on October 08, 2009, 08:05:31 PM
Golfer,wow. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Golfer on October 08, 2009, 08:06:36 PM
Wrong tree to pee on sir. I take it you don't have much respect for any of us that have served and fought for that flag?  Just remember, that right to burn your nations flag was paid for by a long list of others.

btw <S> again Ranger, isnt this the second time this has happened lately?  :rolleyes:

(http://scoutchief.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/boy-scouts.jpg)

(http://www.montenews.com/archive/x1128382301/g258258dbcc080d644a5e15a334821045056105f24a93f1.jpg)

For what it's worth I'm referring to Flag Disposals performed as a Boy Scout once upon a time.  I think you'll find my respect is unwavering and in abundance.  
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: EskimoJoe on October 08, 2009, 08:09:51 PM
Bring it.
Ya wouldn't mind having me as a cell-buddy, would ya?  :P
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Golfer on October 08, 2009, 08:10:22 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: SSgtHam on October 08, 2009, 08:23:59 PM
Man, what a dirtbag that guy is...I'm glad the VFW guys did what they did, I wouldn't have been so nice.

And, I've "burned flags" as well, but with my AFJROTC unit, with our local VFW guys helping out.  Flag Retirement Ceremonies are an awesome sight to see, but something that many people are unfamiliar with and have the wrong ideas about.  It's too bad, considering they're so important to flag etiquette and done with the utmost respect for that flag.
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: batch on October 08, 2009, 08:25:14 PM
as I said earlier I think he got exactly what he deserved

however...... nowhere does it say that he was asked to leave it says he was refused service at the bar because he was drunk........ he immediatley went outside and burned the flag....... legally he could face a misdemeanor for destruction of private property....... pay a small fine and get some probation

the post members however hunted for the guy for 2 days (conspiracy to commit kidnapping)...... took the guy (kidnapping).... duct taped him to the flagpole (assault) and left him for 6 hours........ if he decided to press charges....... these post members would face many years in prison on felony charges...... which they have openly admitted to committing

they should just hope the kid learned his lesson and swallows his pride

as for the Boy Scouts.... I also took part in many burning ceremonies.... a very honored tradition
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: SoonerMP on October 08, 2009, 08:26:08 PM
See Rule #2
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: batch on October 08, 2009, 08:33:58 PM
btw, my scout troops always buried our worn out flags.

theres nothing wrong with burial either......

US CODE states:

(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.

as long as its dignified
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: curry1 on October 08, 2009, 09:42:08 PM
I thought when you burn a flag you have to cut it into its pieces?
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: texasmom on October 08, 2009, 09:54:59 PM
I thought when you burn a flag you have to cut it into its pieces?

yes, you're supposed to cut the field of stars out and cut the stripes into their own pieces, then burn. 
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Denholm on October 08, 2009, 10:46:17 PM
Hey! That sounds familiar....


That's it! I did that two weeks ago. :)
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: ramzey on October 09, 2009, 03:09:21 AM
What this guy did was wrong, but....

by violating his constitutional rights those veterans was worse then him.
With cold head, they commit crime against everything they where fighting for. Just for revenge.
That's sad.
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Stalwart on October 09, 2009, 03:18:04 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: TwinEng on October 09, 2009, 04:37:16 AM
See Rule #2
Title: Re: Veterans Hunt Down and Humiliate US Flag Burner in New York
Post by: Skuzzy on October 09, 2009, 06:34:29 AM
Two members have been suspended from the board because they could not keep from violating the forum posting rules.  It appears more are on the way.  Why is it so hard for people to get a grasp on "Rule #4"?

No point in keeping this open.  Yet another topic that cannot be discussed on this board.