Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Hristo on September 08, 2001, 07:24:00 AM
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Speed is a weapon in air combat, I think you agree.
US planes are fast in AH (P51, F4U).
Soviet planes are fast in AH (La7, Yak9U, La5).
German planes are fast in AH (G-10, D-9, 262)
British planes are fast in AH (Typhoon, Tempest, Mosquite so-so).
Japanese planes are not fast in AH !
Italian planes are not fast in AH (well, historical reasons).
Now, IMO, Japanese planeset needs a fast plane. Ki-84 comes to mind.
So, how about Ki-84 then ?
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Yes, Ki-84 is best fighter in Japan.
I want to see it by Aces High Version 2.
Mitsu
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OR, maybe the japanese version of the Me262?
:)
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Ki 84 for start.
Then FDB's new CO :)
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Yes, as do I, paticulary the vershion with the 2 20mm, and 2 30mm canons :)If memory serves more of these were built than the infamious C hog :)
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I agree, Ki84 is an absolute must. Japan's finest and fastest aircraft should really be included in AH. :(
I can'y wait to see how Superfly or Natedog treat it. It's going to be SO cool looking, and its going to break the N1K2/Spit/LA-7/P-51 stranglehold on the MA. It'll also be a welcome addition to the CT.
Mitsu, you are a very patient man.
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Nahhh Brady.
We need the varient with x 4 20mm HO-5 cannons.
It would shutup the N1K2 whiners immediately. ;)
Imagine the guns of the Chog, mounted on a 20mph faster Niki.
LOL!
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LOL, can't wait to hear the whinning about the ki84, it'll just be called the SuperDuperNiki. This sim can use alot of other a/c than another nip fighter, like a nip bomber or another axis euro fighter or bomber.
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I think ki84 is faster than n1k2 but it dosn't turn as well
(same engine as n1k2)
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Ki-84 will make the N1K2 whining seem like nothing. Bring it on! :)
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ruh oh... is Oleg puttin the ki into il2?
SKurj
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Nik should be afraid of Ki-84 in TnB.
Ki-84's Fowler Flaps will increase its turning ability.
Mitsu
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I will be dweeb if Pyro puts TAIC Ki-84.
Ki-84-Ia by TAIC Report
Engines:
Take-off 1970hp
Normal 1150hp at 8000ft
1000hp at 22000ft
Military 1875hp at 5900ft
1675hp at 19600ft
War Emerg. 2050hp at 2500ft
Speed:
348mph at Sea Level
422mph at 21000ft
396mph at 30000ft
Cruising Speed 219mph at 1500ft
Climb - Ceiling:
Rate @ S.L 3780fpm
Rate @ 21000ft 3290fpm
Time to 10000ft 2.7min
Time to 20000ft 5.8min
Time to 30000ft 9.8min
Service ceiling 39000ft
Mitsu
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I love Ki-61, but also I really love Ki-84 since then seeing this plane in Chiran Special Attack Museum.
This Photo is one of my favorite photos.
I've taken this photo in Aug. 2001.
(http://ya.sakura.ne.jp/~micchy/244sentai/photos/ki84_chiran_1.jpg)
:)
Mitsu
[ 09-08-2001: Message edited by: Mitsu ]
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Mitsu do you have the stats on the variant with the 2 20mm, and 2 30mm handy? I am out of town again, if memory servies it is atually a little more powerfull.
I think it is the Ki 84 IIc.
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It's a Ki-84-Ic, but It was a trial production only.
Ki-84-Ic had two Ho-5 20mm cannons in nose/two Ho-105 30mm cannons on wings, or two Ho-5 20mm cannons in nose/two Ho-155 30mm cannons in wings.
Mitsu
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I think Ki-84-Ia is best.
It had two Ho-103 MGs in nose (350 rounds each), and two Ho-5 Cannons in wings (150 rounds each).
It's enough to kill enemy.
Mitsu
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I thought that around 200 were produced with the 30mm's,i seam to remember seing a figure for it in Richard Bueschel's book.
The Ia would be a killer for shure, I would be happy( err Thrilled :) ) to fly it, but the 30mm punch would be a blast, espichaly since we are geting so many heavy cannons now days on planes.
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Originally posted by Mitsu:
348mph at Sea Level
422mph at 21000ft
396mph at 30000ft
Mitsu,
Unless I'm gravely mistaken, those numbers or from the US tests with higher octane fuel. With Japanese fuel (which HTC does model) the Ki-84 tops out at 392mph.
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Originally posted by Mitsu:
Nik should be afraid of Ki-84 in TnB.
Ki-84's Fowler Flaps will increase its turning ability.
Mitsu
<sarcasm> yeah like the p38s do right mitsu ?</sarcasm>
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Fester,
it's really different type fighter against Ki-84.
Where is Ki-84 Twin Frank? :rolleyes:
Karnak,
I know about that, and I know Major. Iwahashi recorded 392mph @ 6,120m (631km/h) in 4th (No.8404) Ki-84.
Mitsu
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N1K2 has fowler flaps too. At least the one at the Champlin Fighter Museum does.
[ 09-08-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]
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cc funked,
N1K2 had fowler flaps too.
N1K2 would have smaller turn radius than Ki-84.
But, Ki-84 would be good at reversal maneuvers (roll rate and anti-stall ability).
So, You may be able to kill N1K2 in Scissors easily, or you can run away from N1K2.
Of course, if Ki-84 and N1K2 fly in the same area, it will be terrible. :)
What do you think about N1K2 and Ki-84?
Mitsu
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Well, unless the Ki-84 can outscissor a 190 (which it may be able to), it will have a lot of trouble outscissoring a N1K2. I have trouble scissoring with N1K2s in 190s.
By the way, I'd really be shocked and astounded if HTC put the 30mm guns on the Ki-84. I won't be if they put the 4x20mm gunson, because all the N1K2 pilots would scream and squeak if the Ki84 had 2 machineguns (thus dropping their firepower by half if they switch)- but unless someone can prove that the 30mm varient saw combat I'd be surprised if they added it.
Thats like saying - "My Niki isn't fast enough. I want a plane that can outrun everything but an La7, can outturn everything but a SpitV, Zero, and Niki, and can kill stuff in one hit to".
[ 09-08-2001: Message edited by: Urchin ]
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niki should be able to outscissor a 190...
maybe not in the first pass or 2, but as speed drops 190 is fkt
Even sooner if nik dumps speed
SKurj
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Originally posted by Karnak:
Mitsu,
Unless I'm gravely mistaken, those numbers or from the US tests with higher octane fuel. With Japanese fuel (which HTC does model) the Ki-84 tops out at 392mph.
AFAIK TAIC (TAIU-SWPA) tested the Ki-84 during war at Clark Field with Japanese 92 octane fuel and water injection and got results Mitsu claimed. Later at 1946 the USAAF tested the Ki-84 (rebuilt) at Wright Field and used higher octane fuel and got a bit better results:
363mph at sea level
427mph at 20k
4275ft/min climb rate
Early Production model did just 388mph at 19685ft at JAAF test but that was without water injection and at lower rpm (2900 vs 3000). So far no one has proved that the USAAF test was somehow unrelevant despite they used higher octane fuel. Probably they used better fuel to substitute water injection and manifold pressures were same as the Japanese used with water injection. I don't see any reason why the USAAF should have done a test with somekind of "hot rod" ratings.
gripen
[ 09-08-2001: Message edited by: gripen ]
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BTW, Ki-84-Ib (Ki-84-I Otsu) recorded 660km/h at 6,000m...it's a Japanese DATA. 92 octane fuel.
Mitsu
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Pyro,
Do you have "Maru Mechanic of World Aircraft - Type 4 Fighter/Type 97 Heavy Bomber/Type 2 Flying-boat"?
This reference is awesome, if you don't have this book, you should buy it. :)
*This book is still available in Japan.
Mitsu
[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Mitsu ]
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Mitsu, Gripen,
Where did you get those test numbers? I have never seen that info published anywhere?
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Thanks for following, gripen.
your data is probably Ki-84's data which was tested in Australia by US.
I believe US used 140 octane fuel for Ki-84 in that time, also US changed engine plug & engine oil to US's one.
F4UDOA,
My TAIC data is from "Japanese Aircraft Performance & Characteristics TAIC Manual". You can get this book easily.
Mitsu
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Originally posted by gripen:
Early Production model did just 388mph at 19685ft at JAAF test but that was without water injection and at lower rpm (2900 vs 3000).
It's 4th Ki-84.
This Early Production model recorded 631km/h at 6,120m (engine revolution was 3,000rpm), time to 5,000m 5min 54sec, Max Range 1,695km with Internal fuel, 2,920km with Drop Tanks.
Pilot was Lt. Hunabashi.
Mitsu
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Originally posted by Mitsu:
Karnak,
I know about that, and I know Major. Iwahashi recorded 392mph @ 6,120m (631km/h) in 4th (No.8404) Ki-84.
I missed, Pilot was Lt. Hunabashi.
Sorry,
Mitsu
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By the way, Major. Iwahashi did test in Early Production Model of Ki-84 too.
his Ki-84 recorded 624km/h @ 6,500m, Time to 5,000m 6min 26sec, and Service Ceiling Alt 12,400m.
Mitsu
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The USAAF test report should be available from the NARA, it was issued under Project No. NAD-25, with references in the series F-1M-1119-ND. And for early model JAAF testing I'm refering R.J. Francillon (Profile No.70).
BTW that Maru Mechanic serie is excellent, too bad I don't understand language :(
gripen
[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: gripen ]
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I would be happy to see the Ki-44 (I've flown Ki-84's in sims before, but never a Ki-44). I would also like to see a Raiden. If it's speed you want, have HTC build us a J7W1, it flew twice before the end of the war ;). BTW, I wouldn't want the 40mm Ho cannons, since they were only effective within about 100 yds distance.
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USA estimated, "in dogfight capability, compared with Spitfire, Ki-84 was excellent particularly." in the test.
What will this mean?
Mitsu
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KI-84 for teh japanese, and the G-56 for the Italian fans. I want them both.