Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Fencer51 on October 09, 2009, 09:21:19 PM

Title: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 09, 2009, 09:21:19 PM
P-47M 44-21212 flown by Major Greorge Bostwick of the 63rd Fighter Squadron of the 56th Fighter Group, Boxted April 1945.
Major Bostwick caused 1 Me262 to crash and shot down another on March 25, 1945 in UN-F another P-47M.

(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/UN-Z1.jpg)

(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/UN-Z2.jpg)

P-47M 44-21109 flown by Lt. Ernst Treff of the 61st Fighter Squadron of the 56th Fighter Group, April 1945.

(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/HV-K1.jpg)

(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/HV-K2.jpg)

Not too happy with the merging of the fuslage and the canopy but thats the best I was able to get and the red bleeds over on the second skin.  Also I note the wrong serial number on the first one, I gotta check my notes on that.  Also gotta look at that upper wing insignia its looking rough on the aluminum.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: 007Rusty on October 09, 2009, 10:01:49 PM
 :aok  great work  :airplane:
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: 5PointOh on October 09, 2009, 10:20:16 PM
Beautiful Fencer! :cheers:
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Plazus on October 10, 2009, 12:38:45 AM
Outstanding!  :aok
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: AWwrgwy on October 10, 2009, 01:20:46 PM
Repete....


Also from Osprey's 56th Fighter Group:


Quote
The matt black colour on the upper surfaces of this squadron's aircraft had a decidedly purplish tinge.


wrongway
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 10, 2009, 01:36:47 PM
Way ahead of you, I got that covered although it is hard to see from these reduced size screenshots.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: B4Buster on October 10, 2009, 01:53:42 PM
isn't the red on the nose a bit too bright?
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 10, 2009, 02:01:30 PM
isn't the red on the nose a bit too bright?

Enlighten me with your research.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: B4Buster on October 10, 2009, 02:04:14 PM
Enlighten me with your research.

I am asking you. Mind posting links to sites/books you got your info from?

I think it looks too "clean"
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: 5PointOh on October 10, 2009, 02:10:12 PM
I think it looks great Fencer, actually looks like the same red I used.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 10, 2009, 02:11:02 PM
You are asking me?  Oh sorry I thought you were telling me it was wrong.  Let's see, I did it, so that is what I think is right.

As to sites and books, yeah I mind.  I have pictures of both planes in COPYRIGHTED (oh that dreaded word) form.  Try Amazon.com

You are the one who says it is wrong, why do you say that?
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 10, 2009, 02:13:01 PM
I think it looks great Fencer, actually looks like the same red I used.

Wow, mind posting your sites and books?  :lol  Kidding.

Yeah, obviously research before coming in and questioning everything is a daunting task.  Much easier to just post and raise the ole post count.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: B4Buster on October 10, 2009, 02:18:34 PM
You are asking me?  Oh sorry I thought you were telling me it was wrong.  Let's see, I did it, so that is what I think is right.

As to sites and books, yeah I mind.  I have pictures of both planes in COPYRIGHTED (oh that dreaded word) form.  Try Amazon.com

You are the one who says it is wrong, why do you say that?

you are really paranoid.

All I said was I think the red on the cowling looks too "clean" I think a bit of weathering added to it would look nice.


Obviously I was not there, therefore I can't say for sure. My refrence book on the 56th is full of black and white pics, so I can't get a good feel for the shades, but blemishes from battle damage or whatever are pretty noticeable.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: B4Buster on October 10, 2009, 02:22:06 PM
snip
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 10, 2009, 02:26:34 PM
You said "bright".  That is a color issue.  As to weathering I will use those references I have and the pictures of the planes from that era not from the entire war.  1945 was not 1943.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: B4Buster on October 10, 2009, 02:31:35 PM
You said "bright".  That is a color issue.  As to weathering I will use those references I have and the pictures of the planes from that era not from the entire war.  1945 was not 1943.

sorry, I was talking about Ms in 1945.

I was not questioning your sources. It was just a matter of opinion. Why I asked a question. [will edit this out]. Was referring to the sources I have.

Btw, I was just asking for the names of the books you have in your home library.  
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Kazaa on October 10, 2009, 02:53:25 PM
Already, holy crap that was quick!
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 10, 2009, 02:57:18 PM
Well I have a D-40 template and I worked on it some Thursday evening and last night. 
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: oboe on October 12, 2009, 05:41:07 PM
Very nice Fencer.   All the M skins are progressing nicely.

About the red areas - I'm not sure what word to use to describe the effect, whether its "intensity" or "saturation" or "level" or something like that -and understand I'm not questioning the hue or shade chosen, simply comparing the red areas to the dark matte skin color, they seem to jump out at you (or at least at me, on the monitor I'm viewing it through).   Cactus' M skin with the red band around the nose doesn't do that - the red band seems to be at the same level of intensity as the other colors on the skin. I'm not sure if he adjusted the saturation or opacity or what.  Not to criticise, or to say one is wrong and the other right, just making a comparative observation.   

<S>
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: B4Buster on October 12, 2009, 05:58:47 PM
Very nice Fencer.   All the M skins are progressing nicely.

About the red areas - I'm not sure what word to use to describe the effect, whether its "intensity" or "saturation" or "level" or something like that -and understand I'm not questioning the hue or shade chosen, simply comparing the red areas to the dark matte skin color, they seem to jump out at you (or at least at me, on the monitor I'm viewing it through).   Cactus' M skin with the red band around the nose doesn't do that - the red band seems to be at the same level of intensity as the other colors on the skin. I'm not sure if he adjusted the saturation or opacity or what.  Not to criticise, or to say one is wrong and the other right, just making a comparative observation.   

<S>

good wording. exactly
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 12, 2009, 05:59:06 PM
Very nice Fencer.   All the M skins are progressing nicely.

About the red areas - I'm not sure what word to use to describe the effect, whether its "intensity" or "saturation" or "level" or something like that -and understand I'm not questioning the hue or shade chosen, simply comparing the red areas to the dark matte skin color, they seem to jump out at you (or at least at me, on the monitor I'm viewing it through).   Cactus' M skin with the red band around the nose doesn't do that - the red band seems to be at the same level of intensity as the other colors on the skin. I'm not sure if he adjusted the saturation or opacity or what.  Not to criticise, or to say one is wrong and the other right, just making a comparative observation.   

<S>

Hmmm
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: oboe on October 12, 2009, 07:31:17 PM
I'm really struggling right now with the reds of the 82nd P-38Ls' nose and spinners, and its related I think to the specularity in the material.txt file of a bare metal skin.   I just can't seem to find the right level balance--nothing I do seems to look right.    Every setting I choose has drawbacks.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Stoney on October 13, 2009, 09:34:39 AM
If you look at the color pictures of the black 56th skins, that red that Fencer used is almost dead-on accurate.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 13, 2009, 10:53:11 AM
If you look at the color pictures of the black 56th skins, that red that Fencer used is almost dead-on accurate.

Ya see that's what I thought too.. but I started playing with the saturation and dropped it -28% and it doesn't look too bad.. I will post revised screen shots with comparisons soon.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: oboe on October 13, 2009, 12:31:48 PM
If you look at the color pictures of the black 56th skins, that red that Fencer used is almost dead-on accurate.

Stoney is there a link to these color pics somewhere, or are they just in a book?   I'm interested to see them if I can.   Thx!   
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: B4Buster on October 13, 2009, 12:46:05 PM
Stoney is there a link to these color pics somewhere, or are they just in a book?   I'm interested to see them if I can.   Thx!    

Believe Stoney is referring to this thread

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,275507.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,275507.0.html)

Red on the black skin looks dead on, But the red on the blue camo should be dulled a bit.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Stoney on October 13, 2009, 01:26:57 PM
Stoney is there a link to these color pics somewhere, or are they just in a book?   I'm interested to see them if I can.   Thx!    

I tried to find some online this morning to give you some examples, but they're not the profiles.  I need to dig out my copy of America's Hundred Thousand and see if they're in there.  The red in the color pictures is very bright--lots of contrast with the other colors.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: oboe on October 13, 2009, 06:04:14 PM
Fencer sent me a link to some color 56th FG photos on LittleFriends.uk - thank you sir!    Very interesting - some of the red noses seem to be bright and glossy, and really stand out against the dull matte camo, while a couple of others seemed more subdued.    Was surprised to see the variation, as I figured a FG would have limited choices on paint finish type and colors.      I didn't see a color pic of "Sue", but no doubt the case could be made for the bright red.

Just noticed one other thing - the 50 cal gun barrels - were they light or dark metal?   I assumed they should be dark but just noticed on the these two skins they are the same color as the leading edge bare metal.

<S>
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 13, 2009, 07:09:23 PM
Funny, that's where I found the pic of "Sue".  :lol

Note that all color photos of that era have to be taken with a grain of salt for various reasons.  True colors are not necessarily represented by what you see, some photos are better than others.  The best you can do is research the paints in use and what paints they might have used to actually paint the AC.

The 50 cal's had some sort of metal shroud on them.  You are too used to that poorly designed light bomber you like.

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=56&Style=item&origStyle=list&Item=472&Temp=2469&searchString=
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Stoney on October 13, 2009, 10:40:38 PM
Fencer sent me a link to some color 56th FG photos on LittleFriends.uk - thank you sir!    Very interesting - some of the red noses seem to be bright and glossy, and really stand out against the dull matte camo, while a couple of others seemed more subdued.    Was surprised to see the variation, as I figured a FG would have limited choices on paint finish type and colors.      I didn't see a color pic of "Sue", but no doubt the case could be made for the bright red.

Just noticed one other thing - the 50 cal gun barrels - were they light or dark metal?   I assumed they should be dark but just noticed on the these two skins they are the same color as the leading edge bare metal.

<S>

Good, I knew I had seen them somewhere.  I couldn't find the link on Little Friends for some reason.  As far as the Ma Deuce barrels, with (what I assume was fanatical cleaning by the ground crews) time, the bluing on the barrels wears off, revealing the bare metal underneath.

[Edit] Also, the ground crews, being proud of their planes and trying to get every last bit of performance out of them, would wax the fuselages and wings, so that the paint could look a little glossy sometimes.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: oboe on October 14, 2009, 05:28:14 AM
Funny, that's where I found the pic of "Sue".  :lol

Note that all color photos of that era have to be taken with a grain of salt for various reasons.  True colors are not necessarily represented by what you see, some photos are better than others.  The best you can do is research the paints in use and what paints they might have used to actually paint the AC.

The 50 cal's had some sort of metal shroud on them.  You are too used to that poorly designed light bomber you like.

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/gallery.php?Group=56&Style=item&origStyle=list&Item=472&Temp=2469&searchString=

No doubt!   don't know how I missed the pic of Sue...
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 17, 2009, 08:37:56 AM
Updates and one new skin.

(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/UNZa.jpg)
(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/UNZb.jpg)
(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/UNZc.jpg)

(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/HVKa.jpg)
(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/HVKb.jpg)

(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/LMKa.jpg)
(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/LMKb.jpg)
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Guppy35 on October 17, 2009, 08:45:20 PM
That's some really nice looking work Fencer.  Great stuff :aok
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Knite on October 17, 2009, 09:22:32 PM
Nice Fencer. I especially like UN-Z.  :aok
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: StokesAk on October 17, 2009, 09:49:10 PM
I love the new one Fencer.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 17, 2009, 10:11:16 PM
I am sorta loving this one..

(http://www.51hangar.net/skins/Shoot1.jpg)
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Guppy35 on October 17, 2009, 10:15:07 PM
After doing that many Jugs don't you have to do pennance to the Mustang gods? :)

How bout taking that shade of blue and doing one of your B25C glass noses in Marine VMB 413 colors?
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Masherbrum on October 18, 2009, 01:31:14 AM
Fencer, those skins are simply badass!   Regardless of the "color critique", they look just as accurate as any photo's I have come across.   Thanks for these!    :rock
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Greebo on October 18, 2009, 08:38:05 AM
Some nice work there Fencer.  :aok
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Stoney on October 18, 2009, 11:03:18 AM
Some really nice work there my partitioning friend.  One thought for discussion:  is the transition area and gaps between and aft of the cowl flaps a little heavy?

LM-K is hot...
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: hammer on October 18, 2009, 08:17:01 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: USRanger on October 18, 2009, 09:19:02 PM
Awesome as always Fencer! :aok
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: oboe on October 19, 2009, 05:39:52 AM
Love em all, especially "F*UN"!
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: lyric1 on October 31, 2009, 05:46:06 AM
Found a couple of colour photos of Major Bostwicks aircraft.
Your skin is a very close to perfect except the band near the canopy? Not quite the same.


(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/01954.jpg)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/00865.jpg)
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 31, 2009, 07:17:58 AM
Found a couple of colour photos of Major Bostwicks aircraft.
Your skin is a very close to perfect except the band near the canopy? Not quite the same.


(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/01954.jpg)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/00865.jpg)

I would hazard a guess that those are not actually color photos, I think they have been colorized.  I have BW copies of those and I was comfortable with the accuracy of the band.  I will take a look at it again before I submit to make sure though.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: bravoa8 on October 31, 2009, 09:45:53 AM
Nice work!(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-gen014.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: lyric1 on October 31, 2009, 11:31:35 AM
I would hazard a guess that those are not actually color photos, I think they have been colorized.  I have BW copies of those and I was comfortable with the accuracy of the band.  I will take a look at it again before I submit to make sure though.
The web site only places actual colour photos no touch ups to the best of my memory.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 31, 2009, 12:15:21 PM
The web site only places actual colour photos no touch ups to the best of my memory.

Well, they are showing a dark plum color when the original plane was blue.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: lyric1 on October 31, 2009, 10:27:19 PM
Well, they are showing a dark plum color when the original plane was blue.
I wasn't thinking at all about colour just the placement of the band around the canopy it just looks to close to the planes lettering code on the side of it.
Title: Re: Couple P-47Ms from the 61st and 63rd FS's
Post by: Fencer51 on October 31, 2009, 10:52:45 PM
I will take another look at the BW photos, but I thought I followed it pretty darn well.  There is also a profile of the plane which I had.