Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Getback on October 11, 2009, 02:58:01 AM
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If you can't fly above 3k around the cv while defending a base then you need to have puffy ack at shoreline bases so the cons can't fly above 3k as well.
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NO.....if anything you should be asking for no AAA, maybe dumb down the cv puffy ack but Im not sure how puffy from task groups were back then as far as accuracy
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If you can't fly above 3k around the cv while defending a base then you need to have puffy ack at shoreline bases so the cons can't fly above 3k as well.
What? Why?
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If you can't fly above 3k around the cv while defending a base then you need to have puffy ack at shoreline bases so the cons can't fly above 3k as well.
It's a reasonable whine but imo, since a carrier is a temporary offensive force until it is destroyed, the aforementioned advantage is acceptable. Most planes coming off a carrier are low anyways.
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Plus carrier plane set is limited, another disadvantage. Unless your good in the hog or the hellcat.
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It IS effing mind-boggling how devastating puffy (be it shipborne or factoryborne) has become of late....2 of my 1st 4 sorties this camp, I was set afire by puffy at 12k+, 5 miles horizontally away....change alts, speeds....they're like little SAM's after ya :huh
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I agree puffy neds to be toned down, yet still present. CV battles used to be great fun.. all those planes low OTD in a swirling fight.. not anymore. now the attackers simply climb above the defenders, since the defenders can't go above 3k, yet the attackers can go as high as they want. Boring pick fest.
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yep SAM is the word ! :old:
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I must be lucky cause puffy ack rarely ever kills me. Course now that I said that I probably wont be able to get within 5,000 yards of a CV LOL
Case in point. Two nights ago I felt like flying bombers for a change of pace. So I upped a flight of 17's, climbed to around 8K, and headed to a base I wanted to bomb.
While on the way I spotted a CV directly in my path. So I figured I'd see if I could hit the Cruiser and carrier. So I calibrated and goton the bombsight. Now I normally totally suck at bombing (which is why you dont see me in bombers very often) and that night was no exception....well I sucked a little less then normal anyway.
Puffy ack is going off all around me as I carefully steer the formation at the CV. I notice someone is turning the cv so I try to make adjustments to predict the most likely path. "click click click" Bombs away on the cruiser. More adjustments then "click click click" bombs away on the carrier.
I jump in the ball turret to see where the bombs hit. Puffly ack going off all the time. Im expecting to loose anty or all of my craft at any moment.
I watch as the bombs hit...water. But I was damned close as it looked like they missed by only 20-30 yards at the most. Wow. not bad for someone who has been known to miss an entire airfeild while aiming for the middle of it.
At this point I want to turn around and try again. Looking at the map to get my bearings. I see that I am close enough to the airfield that was my original intended target to make a run on that. and then turn around for another try on the CV on my way home again. So I figure I'll make a run on the VH, then go back for the CV.
Happy to be out of the puffy ack,I check my aircraft for damage. There is none. so I start my run on the field. "click,click, click" Bombs away.
Again back in the ball turret to watch my explosions. "Boom BaboomBoom" Just as my last bomb was hitting and right on target I might add. I saw a friendly swoop down and also hit the VH. Mine hit a split second too late "Drats!" I finally hit the broadside of a barrn in these damn things. Only to have someone blow it up a split second before me!"
So I start my turn to go back and try again on the CV with my remaining ordinance. When suddenly "ting ta ting ting ting!" WTF? so I look around and see one of those evil ugly nasty spitfires. Now would ya believe it? This little bastage was actually trying to shoot at me! I tell ya. The NERVE of some peoples kids picking on a poor defenseless me !
Time to man the guns. In a display of gunnery that would have made 999000 proud. I jump in the ball "ratatatatat! pinged him up good. He goes high. I jump in the top turret "ratatatatat" and the impetuous peasants left wing falls off and he goes spiraling down. heh, pick on me will ya.
So I jump back in the pilots seat and continue my turn back in the general direction of the CV's last known location taking into account the direction it was headed before I tried to bomb it. I almost completed my turn when over the radio someone warns me of a P47 So I look around and "ting ting ting tating BANG!"
Rut roh. this cant be good. noticing a white trail coming from my right outboard engine I finally spot this next insolent foolish mortal and bring my guns to bear and after switching bwetween my ball top and tail guns. while using my rudder to complete my turn. His left wing too falls off sending him down ( I must have a thing for left wingers LOL)
Ok back to looking for the CV. Finally I spot it. Puffy act starts going off again all around me as I steer towards target. I take careful aim on the carrier. Leading. adjusting for the turn. Careful, careful dont over compensate, then.... Bombs away!
Back in the ball again to watch my hits. Puffy ack going nuts now all around. I watch. I wait. I wait then watch some more. BOOM! a stream of text bursts across my buffer
X GUN DESTROYED! Y GUN DESTROYED Z GUN DESTROYED X GUN DESTROYED!!!
DIRECT HIT!!! I blew the living crap out of.......
one of the support ships.
Not exactly the target I was aiming for. But hey. I told you I sucked in bombers LOL
Puffy ack going crazy all around me. and being out of eggs and no further air cons attacking me I buttoned up and headed for home and landed my two kills and the score from the damaged support ship.
Doing a damage assessment. Other then the damaged engine (which made it allt he way back home) caused by the P47 and a few minor holes. No perceivable damage was caused by the puffy ack while flying through the heart of it twice.
But then I've always been pretty lucky with puffy ack. Its lazor ack the CVs shoot that have always given me the problems
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Bombers never seem to suffer much from auto-puffy....perhaps it's their incredibly large size, slow speed, and straight course (also perhaps the 3 planes split puffy's attention 3 ways)
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Better solution:
Don't allow CV's to get so close to shore. A boat should NOT be able to vulch the field with AAA.
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Bombers never seem to suffer much from auto-puffy....perhaps it's their incredibly large size, slow speed, and straight course (also perhaps the 3 planes split puffy's attention 3 ways)
Concur. 8K drops on CV's are routine stuff for me as well. Very rarely does the auto-puffy ack seriously take me out in my B26's. Usually what does me in is a very good gunner on the 5-inch, or a very good defensive cover.
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Better solution:
Don't allow CV's to get so close to shore. A boat should NOT be able to vulch the field with AAA.
Now I damn well agree with this suggestion.
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Better solution:
Don't allow CV's to get so close to shore. A boat should NOT be able to vulch the field with AAA.
+1 :aok
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Better solution:
Don't allow CV's to get so close to shore. A boat should NOT be able to vulch the field with AAA.
5 inch gunners can vulch it from like 6k....
+1
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5 inch gunners can vulch it from like 6k....
+1
Lol ya can vulch it from 15k (whatever max range of 5" is), just click on base and plunk it in land mode, funny as hell when ya get one
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Agree, I get killed by puff ack at the same rate whether I'm 5k away or 5+ miles away. Puffy ack travels at about 2 seconds per mile and some radar guided. Maneuvering should help decrease puffy ack.
I think what Getback is hinting is that fighters friendly to the cv should also take hits from the puffy ack. Or the enemy cv should slow the puffy ack rate down when you are around a enemy fighter. Its only fare.
Also puffy ack can reach you even if behind a mountain. I don't believe that was capable in WWII.
Bombers never seem to suffer much from auto-puffy....perhaps it's their incredibly large size, slow speed, and straight course (also perhaps the 3 planes split puffy's attention 3 ways)
Lol to the quote, as for the puffy ack on bombers, I agree they seem to never take damage. I've seen bombers 6k take over 10 direct hits from 5" shells and puffy ack and no damage. The bombers seem to take more 5" hits than a few months ago.
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This is why we need multiple task group types.
The big carrier groups did NOT carry landing craft. They stayed out and hit the targets from a distance, PRECISELY so they wouldn't be easily located.
Actually, I'd be surprised if cruiser groups, or heavy bombardment groups with battleships had landing craft with them as well, because once again, their purpose was to hit the target.
We need three different task group types:
1) Carrier Battle Group - As we have now. Cannot get within 25 miles of shore.
2) Bombardment Group - With a cruiser or even a battleship at its center. Can get in closer (say, within 5 miles of shore. That's about 8800yds, which should put any base on the shoreline within range of its heavy guns). NO carrier attached.
3) Landing Group - Consists solely of a landing ship, with maybe 2-3 destroyers for escort. Can get within range of a base to launch LVTs. It's the ONLY group that can spawn vehicles or PTs. Actually, fleets shouldn't be ABLE to spawn PTs. I can't recall ever hearing about a fleet launching PT boats.
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And while the puffy ack lethality may be historically "accurate", it is detrimental to gameplay IMO. It needs to be either damaging to friendly fighters, just as much as enemy, only player controlled, and/or it's lethality reduced.
Sol
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Errrrm, puffy is damaging to friendlies as well - was attacking a group of 88's that was attempting to get into position to torp the cv, got the first 2, then boom, tower - asked the guy flying the 88's whether it was him or not, and nope, it was my own ack put me back in the tower.
Came as a bit of a surprise too lol...
Wurzel
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I'd like the auto puffy ack's range to be halved and its effectiveness doubled to compensate. This lets players defend their base above 3K until the CV is very close but still gives the same protection against anyone who tries to attack the CV. Just seems so bogus to have the flak bracket you constantly when the fleet is visible only as a group of specks near the horizon.
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It IS effing mind-boggling how devastating puffy (be it shipborne or factoryborne) has become of late....2 of my 1st 4 sorties this camp, I was set afire by puffy at 12k+, 5 miles horizontally away....change alts, speeds....they're like little SAM's after ya :huh
General heavy ack was good to approx 25K during WWII. At 12K the gunners haven't even had to break a sweat. I guess if you are going to fly at low altitudes you should expect to be acked. But that is up to you eh! :)
What I think we find difficult is the extreme accuracy the CV/factory ack seems to have - almost as though it is radar controlled - during the majority of the war only Radar controlled tubes had that accuracy. I believe certain US ships late in the war had it - and perhaps it had been transferred to the Brits too. I'd be surprised to find if less than 95%+ of the remaining AAA world wide was anything but optically laid. HUGE difference in accuracy. Most certainly in my view AAA accuracy in both EW and MW should be dumbed down to reflect this.
Also an accomadation in LW might also be in order. Maybe just some CV's have accuarate (radar controlled) ack - and you don't know till you get over it - heheheh
None for the factories etc.
cheers eh!
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I'd like the auto puffy ack's range to be halved and its effectiveness doubled to compensate. This lets players defend their base above 3K until the CV is very close but still gives the same protection against anyone who tries to attack the CV. Just seems so bogus to have the flak bracket you constantly when the fleet is visible only as a group of specks near the horizon.
I could have sworn that the range was cut down by a third or half possibly when its effectiveness went up so high. I'll have to check the release notes back when it was implemented.
Edit:
This is what the release notes said:
# Changed automatic ack to fire in bursts, adjusted firing rates.
I'm not sure if "Adjusted firing rates" refers to lesser range like I said I thought.
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It is pretty stupid.
Stay under 3k and get picked by 7k cons.
Climb up to cons and get killed by puffy ack/ fight in puffy ack and lose parts.
I generally avoid cv fights because of how gamey it is.
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"Puffy Ack" was more of a "Curtain Ack" in real life. The fuses where pre set to match altitude and what the standard practice was to set "curtains" of ack in front of a formation of flyer's and they would fly through it with the shells fuses set on timers, IE to blanket a set altitude.
Later came Radar aided and fire control Ack with the shells actually having proximity fuses, but most where duds, but still proved to be more effective than the previous method.
All in all, a wall of lead and shrapnel is a wall of lead and shrapnel. You will have your best success at flying airplanes made of metal, going fast, changing altitude and avoiding straight lines so not to help the radar and proximity fuses. Also going in on a CV with 20 other airplanes was more effective in the real world than going in as THE ONLY TARGET. So keep that in mind.
If Ack was to get anymore civilized in this game, CV's wouldn't stay up very long now would they.
And most ground bases where not heavily protected with AA, Radar simply gave enough advance warning to get aircraft up in the air to defend it, and the guns where busy protecting non moveable assets, like factories and the voting public (cities).
For Carrier Groups, Cities and Strategic implacements, Radar was pretty common post 43, but your mobile AA (small caliber through mobile 88's) where simply spraying and praying on the battlefield (which is not modeled in this game except through our GV's and Trains). The Field Ack I am guessing is simply the case of small caliber through 20mm getting you in a crossfire.
Personally, Paper Airplanes and Large Slow aircraft present bigger targets. LA7 vs a P47 or 38 are obviously two different types of bullet magnets.
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I tend to not have a problem with the auto puffy ack, its the manned puffy ack that is rediculously lethal at any range and altitude. Manning the puffy ack shouldnt give you more lethality...it should just give you the option of where or who to fire it at.
Also the manned puffy does not damage friendlies but the auto does. While I dont feel that manned puffy should hurt friendlies there should be some drawback to firing near friendlies. Perhaps give the guns a perk cost and if you fire a shot that would do critical damage to a friendly then kick you out of the gun and you lose the perks. But if you die from enemy fire you dont lose any perks. Probably not the best idea, but something should be done.
Right now it is too easy to unload in furballs on the deck and rack up the kills.
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For my unskilled input....I find that the 5" is being used too gamely.... that is sure, if you have planes intent on destroying your fleet ack em...but when it is used during a furball (because it's a bit scary) over a town or air field it gets a bit tiring.
As for the an answer to the OP...yes this is annoying but I don't feel that placing ack at bases would help..it would only cause more grief here..... They eventually have to come down....sure you may die often but you can get right back up and into it without much effort....and if you get annoyed due to it destroying your score.... oops tracking off course now...
the only thing about Ack I have found to be annoying is when there is no line of sight (hills and the like) and you get acked.
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Puffy ack should be dumbed down a tad but not eliminated. I think the horizontal accuracy is a little unreasonable. Closer to the carrier 3k makes sense but to get hit at 12 or 13k with miles of horizontal separation is a little much.
SEsaber
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It sure shoots a long long wat.
I think the CVs get too close at several places.
If I'm taking a break and someone is trying to sink one of our CVs I'll get on and gun. Not that I'm any good at it but it is fun.
Ack would be a little more controlled if it actually hit any plane in the vacinity. Friend or Foe.
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It's a reasonable whine but imo, since a carrier is a temporary offensive force until it is destroyed, the aforementioned advantage is acceptable. Most planes coming off a carrier are low anyways.
It was a whine for sure. I turned to fight a con and blam! no plane. Then 4 cons come in at about 8k. Honestly, I'm not sure of what the right answer is. It's awful nice when you're the one upping from the cv. I guess I could have just upped in the shore battery. However, I was P.O.'d. Gee that's never happened before. :rofl
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Better solution:
Don't allow CV's to get so close to shore. A boat should NOT be able to vulch the field with AAA.
Yes please.
Been asking for this for a while now.
Suks gettin whacked on the runway by fleet ack.