Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: aircat on August 19, 2000, 08:37:00 PM
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I have a few slight problems with various models in AH...
episode 1: diving in my tiffie onto a M16 setting up for a high release of a 1K into his lap. at 4.0 he opens fire and Im laughing my arse off. at 2.8 I hear a ping followed shortly after by MANY pings by the point of 2.2 my plane looks like confetti at a presidential parade.
ep. 2: diving on a long chase after a B17 2.5 sectors a P38 joins in to save his friend from below I open fire at 1.5 to stir him up I pass from his high 12 to his dead 6 at tremendious speed and see Im nicely lined up with the 17 as he leveled and turned for a pass at a field. the 17 was approx 2k away at the merge point of me and the 38 by the time I got to .2k the P38 had turned and had caught up to me and gave my tail a few orifices not originaly in the design. I knew my speed was to great for this to happen as I was about to have my N1K ripped appart by volocity alone.
ep. 3: flying from 16 to 27 (in a round about way) I was at 12k there was a spit I watched (waiting for him to leave the ack) at approx 6 to 7k he made a pass across his field level our headings was in direct opposite eachothers. he noses up and climbs to my alt and he levels with his nose bearing on me but out at 1.3k a few seconds later his distance off my tail reduced and he was gaining ground (err air) at amazing speed.
ap. 4: a friendly was getting ganged up on by a spit , F4U , and n1k. n1k was in tight with him while the F4U was long BnZ and the Spit was somewhere in between and slowly tightening. the fight was to my guess about 500ft off deck as they would blink in and out of dar alt. I came in to BnZ to break them off starting with the F4U (me in a 51) first pass no good I return to alt for another long fast pass I was fighting and fearing wing breakage from about 4k and on but holding to scare one or 2 off the spit took out the friendly I stayed behind (but not for long) the F4U and N1K the F4U broke off and closed in quickly on the N1K he broke with out me getting a good line on him which wasnt hard cause if I moves much my plane would be gone. figuring on a three on one or to run I ran..... the spit had (at scene of death) crossed under me from 1:30 to my 7 or 7:30 I leveled to run about 20 seconds (or so) I saw the spit was 1.3 and closing and I was still creaking to beat all hell.
now I understand to expect single ping kills from a zeke in my F4U (although it seems to happen ALOT)
I can live with ep. 1 and 2. but 3 and 4 seems to be the case 95% of my deaths. I can only think of 3 reasons why the spit is so (for a lack of better words) AWESOME is:
1: flight model is screwy
2: U.S. was STUPID for thinking they was a any help in the A2A part or the war.
3: there is a way to hack and mostly spit pilots found it.
but any way about it Im getting TOTALY sick of this BS.. to those screaming for the Spitfire XIV .. STOP you already have it!
and to those saying well why dont I fly it? easy, its to easy to get kills in it... when in it I only get killed when surprised or when its 4 on one or better... or against another decent pilot in spit. I like air combat not air dweebery
flame on call names I dont give a rats arse....
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We have a winnah! I present you with this week's "Bent Wookie" award.
(http://www.raf303.org/funked/starwars.jpg) (http://www.raf303.org/funked/wookie.wav)
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Like I said, those aren't spits. They are UFO's or HTC mixed up their file names and put in the F-16 model they had been experimenting with.
I used to fly the spit whenever I got really pissed off by the BS I saw some spits do...and sure enough, I was able to pull off their BS (like, loop from 180 mph start speed? what a JOKE).
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Ahh yes Tac you have a lot of Spit stick time in real life do you?
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Aircat, Tac, you are wrong. The UFO in Aces high is (Quoting Citabria tonight in SEA): the F@#$ng 190A5.
of course the fact that charts on A5 are long posted, but Spitfire IX's aren't, isnt a hint of anything.
Of course it isnt. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<G,D,R>
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I think the problem is you are all very biased, well most of you. Well I am not biased <grin> check out my stats, i have flown all different planes, of all different nationalities quite alot. I fly Jug,P38,P51,g10,g2,190a5,f4u, etcera. I dont fly alot of russian planes so i wont speak on them.
I think very few planes don't perform like they should. My gripes are
1) Ponies wings definitely DO come off too easy, i agree with pony pilots on this one.
2) P38's stall isn't like it should be (should be more mild, thing seems to like to flat spin).Also, the effect of 1 engine off seems wrong to me. I dont think 2 engined planes are modeled correctly. A B26 or a P38 or a b17 with an engine out should be harder to fly than it is.
3) 190A5 FM seems spot on to me. Remember when you complain of UFO A5s they are likely flying with 2 cannon not 4.
4) Spitfires should have nastier spins, i have read many times 190 pilots could push their planes further because spits were so nasty to get out of spin (because of elliptic planform, it has its drawbacks).
5) Mausers have more dispersion than hispanos it seems to me, why?
6)The 190a8 seems to perform too bad, how could it possible kill buffs at 25k. Try doing that in here in a 190a8. It was designed to be a buff killer.
7)Compression seems too nasty at low alts, IE it is hard to decompress even when you get to the lower atmosphere where mach# is higher.
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You got the Mach number thing backwards. And I don't know this term "decompress". This isn't scuba diving. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
As for Spit spins, they are some of the nastiest in the game. The Spit (along with the Zeke I hear) is the only plane that will fall backwards in a tail-slide-of-death without turning around and giving you a chance to recover.
As for Fw 190A-8 performance... It was a dog in real life. Quick at low level but not much of a climber or speedster at altitude. If you don't believe me, maybe you will believe Focke-Wulf's own test data: http://www.raf303.org/funked/a-8manual/page16.htm (http://www.raf303.org/funked/a-8manual/page16.htm)
The only problem with the A-5 FM is that with 6 guns plus ammo, the climb figures match data for a plane with only two guns!
http://members.xoom.com/mikewaltz/F-TR-1102-ND.htm (http://members.xoom.com/mikewaltz/F-TR-1102-ND.htm)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-19-2000).]
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Aircat some advice:
1. Lead Turns - learn about them.
2. Enemy's Energy State - learn to judge it.
As for that M16 hitting you at 2.8k, are you sure there wasn't a bandit on your 6?
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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anyway to much Glory for energy , ehmm ok i know only Kinetic energy , and that dependon speed and waight that all :-)) the wings they cant Give more KE only afect like BRAKS , !!!!! or u speak about some \|JEdi energy again ??:-))))))))))))))))))))))))
Question for HTC : in What actual plane will pilot Balckout like last ? ???
and why ???? :-))
be curios now but realy :-)))
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I understand lead lag and pure turns...
I judge E states quite well thank you on everything BUT spits it seems
M16 conflict yes I AM COMPLETELY sure there was one ground (friendly) and one other air unit (also friendly)noone saw anything else and friendly ground was watching and waiting to drive in for field capture.
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BTW Spit-bashers, look up stories about the Spit's ailerons if you want something solid. They seem to have been very stiff at high speeds.
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Aircat I have no problem outrunning Spits when I'm not flying them, or being outrun by other planes when I'm flying them. So I dunno what you are seeing.
That M16 driver must have been a hell of a shot! I've never made a ping beyond 1.5 in my M16. Could it have been field ack?
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-19-2000).]
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Originally posted by funked:
That M16 driver must have been a hell of a shot! I've never made a ping beyond 1.5 in my M16. Could it have been field ack?
Ack hits and M16's hits have different sounds, funked. I am sure he noticed it.
BTW the farthest I've ever been hit has been 1.8K (buff turbolasers), and 1.5K by a M16.
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Originally posted by Zigrat:
UFO A5
QUOTE]
Want a real UFO? I dove down on a B17, I believe it was over 16 the other day. One of his engines was smoking and I was determined to not let him go.
I came in from a high offset H2H position and after passing by I zoomed up and over to repeat. When making my second run, this guy started pulling up, so I thought..kewl, maybe I'll get to kill one of these things finally..hehe. Well he pulled and pulled and my G6 started stalling. This character actually LOOPED in a B17...wounded at that. I was so amazed that he ended up shooting me down and I left the arena highly agitated. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Wingnut
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Hm, I don't have a huge problem with Spits.
Can even take 'em down in 1v1's.
Now, the e retention capability of the P-47 is another issue (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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PS Aircat you are a good sport, sorry if I insulted you.
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Originally posted by Wingnut_0:
Originally posted by Zigrat:
UFO A5
QUOTE]
Want a real UFO? I dove down on a B17, I believe it was over 16 the other day. One of his engines was smoking and I was determined to not let him go.
I came in from a high offset H2H position and after passing by I zoomed up and over to repeat. When making my second run, this guy started pulling up, so I thought..kewl, maybe I'll get to kill one of these things finally..hehe. Well he pulled and pulled and my G6 started stalling. This character actually LOOPED in a B17...wounded at that. I was so amazed that he ended up shooting me down and I left the arena highly agitated. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Wingnut
Wingnut can you please say the name of the character...
I have my own ideas about who can be.
now, LOOPING B17s...that for sure is a joke.
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wow
i have not been able to loop a b17 yet.
b26s and goons are easy if you have enough speed. and you dont rip the wings off..
trell
[This message has been edited by Trell (edited 08-20-2000).]
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Sry Ram I can't remember his name. I'd probably recognize his nic if I saw him again. I wish I had the film rolling at that time.
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Flying the spitfire written by someone who has flown it. (novel eh)
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Text ©1995 Jeff Ethell
The symbol of Britain's refusal to give up during that dark summer of 1940, the Spitfire won the hearts of both pilots and public in World War II. Regardless of the version, with either Rolls-Royce Merlin or Griffon power, all Spitfire cockpits are virtually identical and wonderfully compact. Climbing in really is (to use a very worn turn of phrase) like pulling the machine on. If everything is done correctly, the Spitfire is one of the easiest aircraft to start. The engine usually fires within two blades and runs like a clock.
While the Merlin-engine versions run very smoothly, the larger Griffon-engine machines feel as if they are angry. The sound from the exhaust stacks and the vibration transferred to the seat of the pants communicates visceral power, almost a desire to go kill something. Any hot-rod lover would enjoy this sensation of unbridled horsepower, this impatience to be turned loose and hunt. Every fighter I've been in is great fun to fly but only a very few are brutally straight about why they exist. The Griffon Spitfire is one such machine.
With enough warmth in the coolant and oil, a flip of the parking brake catch releases the brake lever on the spade control grip and the aircraft is taxiing with minimal power. The first time I had the opportunity to fly a British aircraft with this hand operated air brake system I was skeptical about it being very effective compared to hydraulic toe brakes. Within a very few minutes I was completely won over. It is far easier to manage, particularly on run up when one has to really stand on most American fighter rudder pedals. The source of high-pressure air is controlled by the brake lever on the spade control grip, or stick. The rudder pedals modulate the distribution of pressure to the left and right main wheel brakes. If the pedals are even, equal braking is applied to both sides; as one rudder pedal is applied then more brake pressure is fed to that side. Strength of application is delivered by the hand lever on the grip. The major benefit to all this is having one's feet and legs almost completely relaxed most of the time.
Lining up for take-off is intimidating with that Rolls-Royce engine sticking way out in front. There is no sense in thinking too much about it. Throttle up slowly to prevent a lurch to the right (if in a Griffon Spit where the propeller turns the opposite direction from American aircraft)...left foot moves forward almost in concert with the left hand to keep the nose straight. Monster torque shoves the right wing down rapidly, very much like the P-40, until full left aileron and full (give or take a minuscule amount) left rudder is held. The Rolls is a wounded dragon bellowing horrendously.
There is so much raw power and noise, and you are so tightly focused on keeping everything under control, the actual lift-off at around 90 kts goes by almost unnoticed. Switch hands, move the gear lever down to disengage it from the slot, inwards through the gate and then smartly all the way forward, hold momentarily, then let go. If all is well, the lever snaps outwards through the upper gate, then springs back into the upper slot. Its easy to spot a new Spitfire pilot...the aircraft porpoises as the pilot changes hands and works the gear lever.
Sitting behind this demon V-12 churning out so much power is intoxicating...the earth falls away at a rapid rate, at least for something with a propeller. A look around reveals the excellent visibility out of the bubble canopy. This lessens, to a degree, the impression of being buried within a Spitfire, though that feeling of being a part of the machine does not change. The elevator is very light while the rudder is stiff and the ailerons even more so. Every Spitfire I've flown takes a bit more muscle to roll than most fighters. As speed increases both rudder and ailerons get heavier, resulting in a curious mismatch at high speed...one has to handle the almost oversensitive elevators with a light fingertip touch while arm-wrestling the stiff ailerons. Pilots had to keep this in mind during combat, particularly when going against the Fw 190 which had a sterling rate of roll and exceptionally well harmonized controls. That being said, the aircraft is very well balanced and delightful to maneuver. Whipping a Spit around the clouds ranks right up there at the top of aviation's great experiences.
The aircraft stalls like a Piper Cub. Though a wing tends to drop, there isn't the slightest mean streak in it unless you cob the power, which produces a very violent torque roll. Power off, gear and flaps down, main fuel tanks full, it stalls at 65 kts, which is ridiculously slow. Add a slight bit of power and that drops to 60 kts. With that enormous snout, I try to make a curving approach to landing at about 100 kts in order to keep the runway in sight as long as possible. By the time I'm rolling out across the field boundary, if at max landing weight, I should be no faster than 85 kts with power and 95 kts in a glide. At lighter weights these speeds can be reduced by 5 kts.
All Spitfires are exceptionally easy to land with no inherent tendency to swerve or groundloop. Just reduce power to idle, flare to a three point attitude and she sets down on a feather almost every time. This is a great surprise to most considering the narrow track undercarriage and full swivel, non-locking tailwheel. Why doesn't it drop a wing violently or make the pilot stomp on the rudders? I wish I knew. The genius of managing to combine light aircraft characteristics with such high performance is nothing short of miraculous compared to most other wartime tailwheel types. One or two landings in the Spitfire and you are in love for life.
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As for UFO energy retension i believe it is one of those things that should just fall out the model so if there is a problem with the spits e-retension it will either be a flaw with the model which will effect all planes or HTC have used the wrong numbers (lickly ?) .
Why then is the spit e-retension so much higher. To take an uneducated guess I think probably 3 factors :-
1) Elliptical wings - it reatins E well.
2) Wingloading - Generally it takes less time under g (i.e. bleeding energy) to manouver to the same position. i.e. it may take a FW 190 a few seconds longer to do a 180 degree turn bleeding energy for a few seconds longer.
3) Powerloading - means good acceleration at low speeds so can get lost e back quickly (through accelerating or climbing). I suppose the excess power and low stall speed means can get over those low speed loops other planes perhaps can't do as well.
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Originally posted by RAM:
Wingnut can you please say the name of the character...
I have my own ideas about who can be.
now, LOOPING B17s...that for sure is a joke.
Take a very strong pilot and copilot, ensure there will be no consequences by their superiors for putting a B-17 through such a harsh manuver, load it with only a quarter of fuel and oil, with no internal load. And I guarntee you that a B-17 would do it with no problem (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
And another thing...50 gallons of oil per engine sure does leak fast (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/redface.gif)
- Jig
[This message has been edited by Jigster (edited 08-20-2000).]
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Originally posted by Jigster:
Take a very strong pilot and copilot, ensure there will be no consequences by their superiors for putting a B-17 through such a harsh manuver, load it with only a quarter of fuel and oil, with no internal load. And I guarntee you that a B-17 would do it with no problem (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
In this game the B17 loops, and if a gunner is on board with the pilot , it can fire his turbolasers at the same time.
Yeah I guess that the gunners didndt mind to be upside down wile firing. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
And excuse me but I doubt a lot that B17s could loop in real life, at least not without major structural damage, you'd better be FAST when you start the loop or you wont do it. And the pull would do massive damage to its wings.
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?????????
1) Elliptical wings - it reatins E well.
what a hell is that JEDI energy ????????????
crap how can retain Kinetic energy ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? huh wing fuselage and all the aircraft body isit aerodinamic break nothing alse
punt
lift of is not KE
punt
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and maybe the Big lift and smal load eat KE even beter ! ,spit haz nice big wings ya or not ? :-)
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Sory but geting MAD , and why a hell spit been incapable to w0rk out in last month of the WW2 ? SPeed !!!!!just spit get realy slow when your teory work spit fly ontil today and 900 km/h ?:-))))))))))))
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forgive my boys but last thing about the nice wing of spit :-))
wings what work well at low speed work bad at high speed ! and vice versa
be hapy spit can turn that all :-))
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I believe elliptical wings retain E well due to them giving good lift for the minimum of (induced ?) drag (at high AOA ?)
P.S. orginallly that should have retains
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Wells went through the calcuations on this a long time ago. The elliptical planform and aspect ratio make the Spit a special plane. No amount of griping can change the laws of physics. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
However there is going to be some new physics in AH soon, so who knows.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-20-2000).]
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To all Spit bashers:
Complete a Tour exclusively flying the Spitfre MkIX. After you've done that and had your K/D ratio magically trippled (or even remain were it is {no cheating by changing your flying style to be an insanely conservative "I only engage if I have 5,000ft and only 1 target type", unless you already fly that way}) then I'll listen to your whines.
I'm sick of this "Spitfires couldn't do that. Everybody knows Spitfires sucked and were just mediocre jack-of-all-trades aircraft."
Put your money where your mouth is. I did. I did a whole tour (Tour 6) where I flew German aircraft, mostly the G-10 (OK, I cheated a flew a couple of Tiffies), to find out for myself how bad off you guys were against the Spitfire.
You know what I found?
I found that YOU"RE ALL A BUNCH OF WHINERS.
The Bf109G-10 was SO MUCH EASIER to get kills in and survive in that I have to regard all of your anti-Spit statements as a freaking joke.
Every so often now, I'll grab a Spit, thinking that maybe I was just getting better. But no, I still suck, and I still get wasted by some high flying BnZ bird that I am helpless against.
Sisu
-Karnak
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geting kill and survive is it not mean at all to have FUN!!! and geting Big score is not fun at all
IS it DAMN boring !!!!!!!
the fun is when u get adrenalin up and that come when Typhie manage outurn a ZEKE :-))))))))
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spit aint an easy plane to survive in situations where you are outnumbered
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BAH!... I have flown the spit... when I do I go into instant moron mode and still retain my K/D ratio. if you check my score keep in mine 3 of the 6 deaths was boredom ack killing out side that I constant dive in to 4:1 (or better) odds (their favor) and usualy take 2 with me less then those odds I land nicely at home.
as to the coment seeming to point thats its the LW pilots complaining I RARELY fly LW.
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hehehe,
Funny how one can never do these things against someone else, it always happens to them!
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There is nothing magical about the Spit at all. Most of the preceding points have echoed my observations pretty well- it can be outrun, outrolled, overwhelmed, bled out of E by anyone that approaches it properly.
I do fly everything, and find nothing magical about it at all.
Could it be that some planes have strengths that play to our particular styles and some don't? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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"Funny how one can never do these things against someone else, it always happens to them!"
Is a keeper.
BTW Would you like us to dig up some referances on looping a b17?
HiTech
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HT I know for certain that a B-17 can't loop - I heard it right here on this BBS! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-20-2000).]
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Originally posted by hitech:
BTW Would you like us to dig up some referances on looping a b17?
HiTech
A B17 wich gunners stay in their spots and fire during,and after the loop?
Please, yes.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by RAM:
In this game the B17 loops, and if a gunner is on board with the pilot , it can fire his turbolasers at the same time.
Yeah I guess that the gunners didndt mind to be upside down wile firing. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
And excuse me but I doubt a lot that B17s could loop in real life, at least not without major structural damage, you'd better be FAST when you start the loop or you wont do it. And the pull would do massive damage to its wings.
I don't see how you could get the B-17 to loop because the force needed to pull the yoke through at about 300mph is almost too much for both crew to do. But, the G-loading is relatively low with the B-17 because the speed at which it would continue through the manuver. By the time it got to the top to fall over there would be, well none.
But ya, I do agree the elevator control on the 17 is a bit much, in both the length of traverse and speed of traversal. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
I think it has alot more to do with crew exertion then with the structural integrity of the plane...by 1945 most of the bombers were safe out to at least 4G's...well within the number required for the uber manuvers in AH (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/eek.gif)
The corkscrew was a realtively high G manuver..about 3 to 3.5 depending on the strength of the crew, and outside the US 8th AF bomber doctrine was a very common defense manuver.
Anyways...
- Jig
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Originally posted by Karnak:
To all Spit bashers:
Complete a Tour exclusively flying the Spitfre MkIX. After you've done that and had your K/D ratio magically trippled (or even remain were it is {no cheating by changing your flying style to be an insanely conservative "I only engage if I have 5,000ft and only 1 target type", unless you already fly that way}) then I'll listen to your whines.
I'm sick of this "Spitfires couldn't do that. Everybody knows Spitfires sucked and were just mediocre jack-of-all-trades aircraft."
Put your money where your mouth is. I did. I did a whole tour (Tour 6) where I flew German aircraft, mostly the G-10 (OK, I cheated a flew a couple of Tiffies), to find out for myself how bad off you guys were against the Spitfire.
You know what I found?
I found that YOU"RE ALL A BUNCH OF WHINERS.
The Bf109G-10 was SO MUCH EASIER to get kills in and survive in that I have to regard all of your anti-Spit statements as a freaking joke.
Every so often now, I'll grab a Spit, thinking that maybe I was just getting better. But no, I still suck, and I still get wasted by some high flying BnZ bird that I am helpless against.
Sisu
-Karnak
Tour1 : (when I had the one button joke....err...yoke, no rudder pedals and problems to take off as I was a hopeless dweeb)
Query results:
ram has 70 kills and has been killed 75 times in the Spitfire Mk IX
(total K/D rate on ALL planes in Tour1: 0.55aprox...you get the idea)
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Tour2 : (still no rudder pedals,still with yoke, still a dweebish newbie)
Query results:
ram has 65 kills and has been killed 61 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.
(K/D on all planes 1.024, boosted because JG2's teamwork (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif), as you see is in my average, and I was only a dweeb)
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Tour3: (got rudder pedals in the start of it and changed definitively to german planeset with some P51 and P38 too):
Query results:
ram has 10 kills and has been killed 14 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.
(K/D ratio in tour3:1.474, rudders made me go up a lot (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
I recall most of those kills happened same night in base defence. got killed 8 times in a row by the 101 ECV vulching (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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From there onwards:
Tour4: 2kills 0 deaths
Tour5: 1Kill 0 deaths
Tour6: 0kill 0 deaths
Tour7: 0kill 0 deaths.
Total K/D in SpitIX for RAM in all tours:
148kills/150 deaths.
Counting that I flew it when I had no damned idea on how to up from a field and did not know anything about realistic way of flying (this is my first online sim and there is nothing in box sims that is near this),no damned rudders, and a sin of joke, I think it is more than a good K/D ratio,indeed
SpitfireIX is a wonderful plane. In tour1,while I had a 0.5K/D ratio in general, in SpitIX I was near 1. And I was a hopeless dweeb.
I am sure that If I take now a spitIX on a hole tour I'll raise a K/D over 3.5, (now I am at 2.2 and I am quite happy to be true). But I wont do it. I dont like the spitfire as plane and I wont get into one to have a boring time to proof anything.
Ball's on your side, Karnak. Maybe is not the plane... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-20-2000).]
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Ah, BTW...
Tour1:
Query results:
ram has 105 kills and has been killed 125 times in the F4U-1C.
forgive me, father, I have sinned (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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An analysis of the scores, limited to fighter vs fighter (no tanks, no buffs, Tour 7):
Plane k/(k+d)
P51 53.5%
109G10 54.6%
SpitIX 48.6%
P47 54.6%
Zero 35.9%
Yak9U 46.2%
190A5 59.8% << big guns
TyphIB 50.9%
C202 32.4%
P38L 40.5%
SpitV 33.0%
F4U1C 60.2% << big guns
109G6 44.1%
109G2 46.4%
109F4 36.1%
F4U1D 38.9% note wo guns not so hot
C205 48.1%
190A8 44.4%
N1K2 47.3%
La5 39.7%
So.. the Spit IX is nothing special (worse than most planes) and the Spit V stinks (it's essentially the worst plane in AH). Note the good performance of B&Z planes with big guns.
(Sorry about the vertical format- table wouldn't fit otherwise)
715A
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Those numbers dont tell all the story. Mines neither. THey should be better if you quit all the vulches I suffered (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Spitfires are the planes most used in base defence (over Zeros and Nikis). They are,too,the plane of choice for the vast majority of newbies (Hey! I am newbie, wich plane do you recomend me?---->95% times the answer is "Spitfire" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)).
So they are planes that will always have a lot of deaths due to disadvantage in E and/or unexperienced pilots.
Look,too that one of the most feared planes in the current planeset, N1K2 (a plane feared by many), has a lower score, 47%. And that another very competent plane, C205, has 48%, like Spitfire.
As I say, numbers dont tell the whole story.
Note the good performance of B&Z planes with big guns.
It may seem a sound argument. IMO, it isnt. look the figure for the Fw190A8: 44%, and has better guns than A5. And A8 is a pure BnZ fighter with 4 big guns.
Look the P51,53%. The P47, 54%. All BnZ fighters have the lead positions except Fw190A8 and F4U1C,while planes as the N1K2, with 4 20mms, have 47%, and C205 with 2 20mm like A5, has 48%.
That is simply because BnZ is the best way to fight and survive in AH's environment. You can do wonderful E-fighting in a SpitIX, but 80% people in the MA will TnB with it. Why, I dont know, but for sure TnBing you'll end dead quite quickly.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-21-2000).]
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This is what happens when you use the Spit in a Z&B like mode
mitsu has 92 kills and has been killed 13 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.
Alternatively
tukiyo has 110 kills and has been killed 32 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.
or, in fariz mode:
fariz has 266 kills and has been killed 73 times in the Spitfire Mk IX.
Fly it right, and it is very deadly. and you can survive most situations.
Not my fault many fly it as pure t&b.
I consider myself a decent 109 pilot
stsanta has 223 kills and has been killed 42 times in the Bf 109G-10.
So, in the hands of a dedicated Spit pilot, the Spit matches the G10. Easier to kill in, but also easier to get killed in.
Seems to me the balance is quite good, and personal preference/flying style is the key
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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1> firstly this is a game.. which means
unless you invent a time machine, go back and enlist..OR buy a couple of warbirds and try to shoot holes in them you don't really know what the hell a real operational Fw, or Spit fought like. Unless you read alot..and your only taking the opinion of the author.
2> having acknowledged that this is only a game..take a deep breath and be certain that certain things can happen that aren't IRL. This being a game..
3> Spitfires may be looked down upon for various reasons in many games because of the "ease" of flight, and fighting skill. But thats probably because they were universally such a good airplane. Now you may have your own fav ride..that kills plenty of spitfires..but don't forget thier are plenty
of grateful veterans who loved their spits, and the RAF didn't think they were too shabby either.
4> Consider the stats don't include a vital
ingredient: pilot skill..Maybe consider that bloody newbie spit which set your bellybutton on fire maybe has just a better pilot..or that the reason spits don't rate so much is because newbies fly them..
5> having thought of points 1-4 and considering I've only flown spits once or twice...I conclude..perhaps people should realise this is a only game and treat it acordingly...after all if you really need the smell of av-gas and cordite..see point 1
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-tronski- RNZAF
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episode 1: diving in my tiffie onto a M16 setting up for a high release of a 1K into his lap. at 4.0 he opens fire and Im laughing my arse off. at 2.8 I hear a ping followed shortly after by MANY pings by the point of 2.2 my plane looks like confetti at a presidential parade.
I have to wonder just what the hell this means? 4.0? Is that the distance the icon said? Its just that I seldomely see an icon on an M16 read above 1.5.
I have to call BS on this one.
AKDejaVu
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Santa,
We all know that horrible story about your "wonderful" socks (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
mx22
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DejaVu,
now that you point it out it is odd... but that IS what I saw.
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mx22, if you don't stop revealing my secrets...
Well, four words for you.
My momma's combat boots.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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Everything a good 190 pilot could wish for is arena full of Spitfires and Spitfires only.
Face it Mitchell, my plane is better than yours !
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Yeah but my Dad could beat your Dad up. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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C47 FM is porked
Fury
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"BTW Would you like us to dig up some referances on looping a b17?"
HiTech
yea in wartime in combat please do. smart bellybutton
with a gun crew and guns and ammo and a radio and bomb sight and 1/2 fuel please do lol just the kind of crap you boys love to spew it should not loop and you know it
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Originally posted by -towd_:
"BTW Would you like us to dig up some referances on looping a b17?"
HiTech
yea in wartime in combat please do. smart bellybutton
with a gun crew and guns and ammo and a radio and bomb sight and 1/2 fuel please do lol just the kind of crap you boys love to spew it should not loop and you know it
I bet you a Fw-190 that the standard "corkscrew" defensive manuver put alot more stress on a B-17 then a loop would.
- Jig
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my favorite moment of "doing it to them" is when I was in a 190a5 vs tukiyo in a spitIX...
he had me cold outflown outfought ahd more e than I and everything so i just went from 800 yards from his 12 to a few thousand feet above him in a trademark 190a5 "zoom to space" and quickly killed him thinking to myself how pissed off I would be if the same bulltoejam move was pulled on me.
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Originally posted by funked:
BTW Spit-bashers, look up stories about the Spit's ailerons if you want something solid. They seem to have been very stiff at high speeds.
I thought that was the fabric covered ailerons which were replaced with metal ones early on?
It is true that the real Spit was light in pitch and stiff in roll and yaw. Should a sim try to recover that behavior by limiting the roll rate, for example, at high speed; implying in effect that the pilot is weak? It just means you have to push harder on the stick, it doesn't necessairly mean you can't get the plane to roll. Shouldn't the behavior be limited to force feedback sticks?
715