Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: RipChord929 on October 13, 2009, 05:20:44 PM
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I've gotten pretty good advice on hardware stuff from the ppl on this Forum before, so I'm asking again...
I'm building my first PC, not top of the line, because I don't want to blow a whole boatload of cash, in case I screw it up...
I wanted something I could experiment with as well, and parts that will be useful for bigger and better builds in the future...
So this is what I have already purchased so far.. (sitting in front of me right now)
Antec 900 case.
Asus P5N72-T Premium Mobo. (has its own dedicated 8.1 sound card inc, no onboard audio)
E8500 CPU.
Xigmatek 120mm rifle cooler, and the backside support bracket.
Corsair 1000HX modular PSU.
2 x EVGA 9800gtx video cards, standard card/no OC. (didn't intend SLI, but they were package deals, figured it couldn't hurt to have a spare)
Vista ultimate 64 sp1. (retail)
edit, forgot the drives, LOL!!! WD Caviar Black 640gig 32meg cache 7200rpm, and Plextor PX880SA sata DVD burner...
RAM is the only thing left to purchase... Plan on 8gig to take advantage of the 64bit...
Looking at Gskill DDR2 1066, but tempted by the 1200mghz because the Mobo will accept it... Both have good reviews..
Suggestions?
THX RC
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read somewhere that u most likely dont need more than 4k of ram, something about not being able to use it, unless you are planning to heavy video editing. cant find the thread. btw hurry up on bying the ram its going up in prize like crazy i bought 4k ocz platinum about 1 month ago and its already 30 more now. oh yeah whatever u decide dont depend on the rebates, they take forever to get.
semp
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I'd stick with 4gb ram personally
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The amount of ram is up to you if you want to go with 8Gb ......... I doubt you would ever see any benefit over having 4Gb personally....... but I dont know your usage either
as for the 1066 vs 1200....... stick with the 1066....... its already going to be underclocked by your mobo to 667 anyhow............ even if you overclock the CPU you wont go beyond the 1066 ram unless you plan to shoot for a 5Gb overclock (not gonna happen lol)...........
if you were thinking well having 1200 is just way more cool....... then think of the cost of at least double and perhaps triple the price depending on brand
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The amount of ram is up to you if you want to go with 8Gb ......... I doubt you would ever see any benefit over having 4Gb personally....... but I dont know your usage either
as for the 1066 vs 1200....... stick with the 1066....... its already going to be underclocked by your mobo to 667 anyhow............ even if you overclock the CPU you wont go beyond the 1066 ram unless you plan to shoot for a 5Gb overclock (not gonna happen lol)...........
if you were thinking well having 1200 is just way more cool....... then think of the cost of at least double and perhaps triple the price depending on brand
Only thing it will possibly do is load things a wee bit faster...and that is only if all of the memory is being used...meaning you'd have to be running every program in the Adobe Master collection, AH, FS2004, firefox, IE, opera, and 15 other games....:P
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I came late (about a yr ago) to the computer hobby thing, so this is still part of the learning curve for me..
So I made sure to get a Mobo with very tweekable bios, and bios backup, so it can recover if I twist em up badly..
This is all about experimentation for me, dinkin and tinkerin is going to be kinda fun... I fully expect to burn something in this process..
4gig matched pair of 1200mhhz is about $150.. x2 is $300, LOL, no big deal... I'll enjoy tweekin on it!!!
Hell, I regularly pay $500+ for a single NOS cast piston for my old race bikes, and they only last a single season, (MAYBE, if I don't frag it) LOL!!!
And too often I pizz $30 of beer away in a day, (literally) LOL!!! I just chalk it all up to life experience!!!
thx for the advizo!!
RC
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http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4350424&CatId=2531 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4350424&CatId=2531)
or
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3803377&CatId=2531 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3803377&CatId=2531)
If you really want the 1200 then:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231201 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231201)
More often than not, the MB will not let all 8GB of RAM run at the 1200Mhz. Just something to chew on.
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the motherboard will not let ANY of the ram run @ 1200 ...... thats precisely my point
when you put 1200 ram into a motherboard with an E8500 the ram will automatically be UNDERclocked by your motherboard down to 667
if you overclocked the CPU you (depending on how high) then your ram would step up to 800 or higher depending on how far you OC the CPU.......
but there is NO circumstance where you could overclock that CPU high enough to exceed 1066
so no matter what you put in there........ if you put 1333 ram in there......... the highest it could ever be read with that CPU is 1066
at $300 for 1200 (your quoted price for 8G) that you could never reach vs $150 for 1066 (newegg prices at a glance for 8G) why would you possibly want to waste $150
if hadnt mentioned you were interested in OC I would have even told you anything more than 800 would be a waste....... but since theres a SLIM chance you might break 800 if you OC then you should get the 1066
let me try to break it down so I can maybe be a bit more helpful :)
E8500
currently 3.16G FSB 333 correlates to 667 ram
OC example 3.8G FSB 400 correlates to 800 ram
OC example 4.2G (about the highest out there) FSB 442 correlates to 1066 ram
OC example 5G (not possible) FSB 533 (not possible) correlates to 1066 ram
so you see in the last example that in order to use anything higher than 1066 ram youd have to overclock higher than is physically possible by that chip
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The P5N72-T will have the RAM at 1066. It will automatically OC to 1200, if he buys 1200 RAM. So I guess my question is what "default 667Mhz setting" are you two dreaming up? Because 667 won't be in this picture at all.
I have an ASUS P5K-E and it automatically OC'd from 800 to 1066 when I bought my Mushkin Ascent RAM. I'm currently looking at getting 4GB more, because the cost has more than 1/2'd.
EDIT: Oh, right now my E8400 is at 3.25 and the RAM is at 1152Mhz.
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Batch is correct and you'll actually likely lose performance going with the faster RAM due to it's looser timings.
The CPU as a 3.16 Ghz double pumped dual core running on a 1333 FSB. 1333/2 (double pumped)/2 (dual core) = 333.3 core clock speed of the CPU. The CPU can send and recieve data on each clock cycle. This CPU runs a 9.5 clock multiplyer so 9.5 x 333 = 3.16 Ghz.
To synchronize the RAM clock with the CPU clock you'de need to run the RAM at 333.3 x 2 (DDR2) or with a 667 RAM BUS.
Now lets say you do a 20% overclock to get the CPU to 3.8 Ghz. To do so you'de raise the FSB to 1600 and the CPU core clock speed to 400 (1600/2/2 giving 400*9.5 = 3.8 Ghz) with a corresponding 800 Mhz RAM BUS to sync the RAM clocks at 400. Anything faster and the RAM is simply running empty clock cycles waiting on data from the CPU.
It's OK to go a step over this in case you want to try for an extreme overclock so you could buy 1066 RAM. This would allow you to attempt an OC to a 533 core clock (2132 FSB/5.06 Ghz CPU) but you will never get it that far without an extreme cooling solution.
Now to timings. The RAM is rated for latencies in a number of areas with the most important being CAS latency. It is the last number in a string that looks like 4-4-4-12 or 5-5-5-16. This represents the amount of time that it takes the RAM to process a request for data (latency). For a similar RAM BUS speed, the higher the latency the slower the RAM.
As RAM BUS speeds increase, latencies typically increase as well. That's OK as long as you can take advantage of the faster BUS. If you can't, your likely actually getting poorer performance from the faster RAM as the increased latenices can't be offset by the faster BUS.
Of course, you can try to manually underclock the RAM and tighten timings but for most people I wouldn't recommend it. RAM is very fickle and likes to work within relatively tight tolerences. It's better to just buy what you need as there's no guarantee you'de get something else where you wanted it.
IMO it's ok to buy RAM one step faster than you think you'll need but anything faster is simply hurting your performance.
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The P5N72-T will have the RAM at 1066. It will automatically OC to 1200, if he buys 1200 RAM. So I guess my question is what "default 667Mhz setting" are you two dreaming up? Because 667 won't be in this picture at all.
I have an ASUS P5K-E and it automatically OC'd from 800 to 1066 when I bought my Mushkin Ascent RAM. I'm currently looking at getting 4GB more, because the cost has more than 1/2'd.
EDIT: Oh, right now my E8400 is at 3.25 and the RAM is at 1152Mhz.
You've got a 9 CPU multi so you could actually clock your RAM down to 722 without losing anything. There's absolutely no reason in the world to have your RAM OC'd.
If it was me I'd go into the BIOS and unlink the RAM and set it back to it's stock paramaters. After that you could easily hit 3.6 Ghz with the CPU and it still wouldn't keep up with the RAM which would only be running at an effective 800 Mhz.
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I'm gonna pop for 8gig of the 1200mghz Gskill.. Allows more variation of tune.. I don't even know what I'll end up doing with the rig.. Tryin this or that misc stuff...
It will be fun and interesting tho... And I'll learn alot by making changes, until I can do the changups in my sleep.. If i screw it up, I'll just start over...
RC
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your money to waste I suppose........
good luck with the build either way, youll find it very rewarding and quite a learning experience
as always theres tons of knowledgeable people here on the forums if you run into any snags
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Rgr batch I will... Thx BE, Mash, Dragon, and all... :salute
RC
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Q, on mem configuration? May be a non issue, but just need opinion from ppl with more experience...
P5N72-T mobo, mem dimms are designated as follows:
Channel A Channel B
A1 A2 B1 B2
I have two 4gig sets of DDR2 1200 Gskill memory.. Each set is 2 sticks of 2gig.. Total 8gig...
(pretty obvious, but just want to be perfectly clear)
My question is about the matched pairs... As I understand, the best way, is to use matched pairs only
in the 2 mem channels... If using 2 sticks, (4gig, 1 matched pair) I would install them in slots A1 and B1...
But when using 8gig (4 sticks, 2 separate matched pairs) would I install 1 matched pair in slots A1 and A2,
Then the other matched pair in slots B1 and B2?
Or, install 1 (matched pair) in slots A1 and B1? Then the other (matched pair) in slots A2 and B2?
The mem configuration chart in the mobo manual doesn't specify about matched pairs...
But I read everywhere that matched pairs of mem should always be used in dual channel DDR...
As I said, LOL, this might be a non issue.. But I don't know for sure, so I'm asking?
RC
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install 1 (matched pair) in slots A1 and B1? Then the other (matched pair) in slots A2 and B2?
yes
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Thx Dragon, kinda figured it that way... But like to be sure...
RC