Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: juzz on August 22, 2000, 06:34:00 AM
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Spitfire F.IX
All tests conducted at 100% fuel, 2x20mm & 4x7.7mm, "WEP" power.
Data in brackets supplied from the tables here. (http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit9.html)
Speed
4000ft: 323mph IAS, 350mph TAS (326mph)
8000ft: 320mph IAS, 370mph TAS (344mph)
12000ft: 315mph IAS, 385mph TAS (363mph)
16000ft: 303mph IAS, 400mph TAS (383mph)
20000ft: 285mph IAS, 400mph TAS (378mph)
24000ft: 275mph IAS, 415mph TAS (390mph)
28000ft: 260mph IAS, 420mph TAS (409mph)
32000ft: 230mph IAS, 405mph TAS (395mph)
36000ft: 200mph IAS, 385mph TAS (377mph)
Climb
MS gear: 3800fpm@13000ft (3860fpm@12600ft)
FS gear: 3000fpm@24000ft (3020fpm@25200ft)
Speed is significantly faster, varying from 8-26mph in excess of the Boscome Down(B.D) figures. I suspect that the TAS indicator is actually at fault here. A rough conversion of the IAS listed would probably give TAS closer to the B.D figures.
Climbrate is virtually identical to the B.D figures, with only a slight difference in critical altitude. The critical altitudes for speed are also close to the B.D figures. However, the critical altitudes for MS/FS gear could vary by several thousand feet in the real aircraft, so these values are somewhat arbitrary anyway.
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Juzz,is a thing long known here, look if you see any chart of the SpitIX in the Plane section...wondered why there is none?.
I,for me, dont mind the extra speed of the Spiftire, I think that we have a mix of LF and HF spitfire here, not the "F" Pyro says.
Its good for ballancing a 1942 plane to 1944 standards. Still you have to hear people saying that SpitfireIX is not good enough... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
Good post, juzz. Lets see what do RAFwobbles (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) say now.
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-22-2000).]
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LOL!! I had forgotten that the Spit IX was outta wack for a F model
And RAM, tsk tsk tsk
Good post, juzz. Lets see what do RAFwobbles say now.
You have to learn the proper terminology my friend (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
They are not RAFwobbles!!
They're more properly known as SPITDWEEBS! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
Or you can just call em NancyBoys as I like to think of them (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
"Real Men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires"
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Or what SAW calls them; RedCaps (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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StSanta
JG54 "Grünherz"
"If you died a stones throw from your wingie; you did no wrong". - Hangtime
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"RAFwobbles"
I feel deeply insulted that the RAF don't even get there own derogatory nickname next thing you know we'll get a mustang IV instead of a spit 14 or tempest (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Call me as you want, but as people in Russia used to say:
Luftwaffe pilots dont even need crosses on their graves
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
mx22
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All those figures are from the tests of early Spit IXs using a max of 15 lb boost, iirc. The Spit in AH uses 18 lb boost, as did the vast majority of Spit IXs.
Compare the climb in AH with the climb for either the LF or HF SPits and you will see they are better than the one we have here.
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Spitler Youth
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What Nashwan said. The famous AFDU comparison was done the same way - the Spit was using less than full power while the Fw 190A-3 was in WEP.
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I wish HTC would give us achart of the spitIX climb and speed.
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The only thing incorrect is speed. Not critical altitudes or climbrate. What I was trying to determine was whether the Spitfire F.IX in Aces High actually does reach those TAS, or if it is a bug with the ASI.
Now for some stupidity...
AFDU: 21k, Spit IX and Fw 190A-3 equal.
AH: 21k, Fw 190A-5 415mph, Spit IX 400mph(at +18lbs). UH OH! Not only is it way slower, but that AFDU Spit was only running at +15lbs. Maybe the Fw 190A should only do 400mph. Or if you use the B.D figures, 378mph.
AFDU: 21k, Fw 190A-3 25mph faster than Spit V.
AH: 21k, Spit V 370mph, Fw 190A-5 415mph.
UH OH! That Mk V should be doing 390mph, in reality. Either that, or the Fw 190A should do 395mph.
Seems we have a problem.
Solutions?
1. Speed up the Spitfires by about 10-15mph.
2. Slow down the Fw 190A by about 10-15mph.
So what will it be?
[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 08-22-2000).]
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Originally posted by juzz:
Now for some stupidity...
AFDU: 21k, Spit IX and Fw 190A-3 equal.
AH: 21k, Fw 190A-5 415mph, Spit IX 400mph(at +18lbs). UH OH! Not only is it way slower, but that AFDU Spit was only running at +15lbs. Maybe the Fw 190A should only do 400mph. Or if you use the B.D figures, 378mph.
AFDU: 21k, Fw 190A-3 25mph faster than Spit V.
AH: 21k, Spit V 370mph, Fw 190A-5 415mph.
UH OH! That Mk V should be doing 390mph, in reality. Either that, or the Fw 190A should do 395mph.
Seems we have a problem.
Solutions?
1. Speed up the Spitfires by about 10-15mph.
2. Slow down the Fw 190A by about 10-15mph.
So what will it be?
It will be what we have now...
Happens that the 190A that we have at AH is an A5 with a BMW801D-2 instead a BMW801C <G>
Plus, the A3 tested there had a derated engine ,making the tests still more questionable (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Is it clear now? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 08-22-2000).]
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370mph spit vs. 385mph 190? sounds like Spit V vs. 190A-8 to me.
Fw190a-5 was way faster, over 400mph at that altitude.
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A-2 was the last 190 with 801C engine.
The "derated engine" is nonsense - the manifold pressures and RPM used were the WEP rating for the 801D.
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-22-2000).]
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Try again without WEP.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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RAM, you sure are a conspiracy theorist. BTW, what's the conspiracy behind the C-47 not having stats up there?
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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Try what again without WEP?
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NII-VVS tests (18 november 1944) of Spitfire LFIX (serial number 15667)
Max speed km/h:
0m alt = 515(549 with wep)
1000m = 536(570)
2000m = 544(578)
2400m = 556(577)
3260m = 559(596)
3600m = 563(581)
4000m = 580(618)
5000m = 590(628)
5500m = 601(627)
6000m = 614(624)
7000m = 611(622)
8000m = 611(613)
9000m = 601(-)
9500m = 595(-)
Climb ability at alt, m/sec:
0m alt = 19,6(22,8 with wep)
1000m = 19,6(22,8)
2000m = 19,6(22,4)
3000m = 19,6(20,5)
4000m = 17,7(18,8)
5000m = 17,6(18,6)
6000m = 17,2(-)
7000m = 14,6(-)
8000m = 12,0(-)
9000m = 9,4(-)
10600m = 6,8 (-)
12800m = 0,5(-)
Time of sustained turn at 1000m alt, sec:
17,5
Turn radius m:
235
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Nice Aper!
Thanks!
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BTW That is a 3.2g sustained turn. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 08-23-2000).]
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Aper may I ask what is your source? Do you have the actual NII documents or a book which quotes them? This type of information (especially turn rate and radius) would probably be very useful for HTC!
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Funked
The Spitfire data I wrote above were taken from the book "Spitfire" which was issued in Russia. There is a special chapter about the Spitfire-LFIX tests in NII-VVS.
The original NII-VVS sources I have are only about captured LW planes tested in Russia in 1942-44.
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Originally posted by juzz:
Try what again without WEP?
Your tests. Your comparing our WEP to their MIL.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
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100% fuel, 2x20mm & 4x7.7mm, +15lbs boost/3000rpm
4k: 335mph
8k: 355mph
12k: 370mph
16k: 390mph
20k: 385mph
24k: 400mph
28k: 415mph
32k: 398mph
36k: 380mph
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pyro can you post graphs for the AH spitIX F
just so I know what altitudes I have more power to work with than the spit in AH (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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from aper
> Funked The Spitfire data I wrote above were
> taken from the book "Spitfire" which was
> issued in Russia. There is a special chapter
> about the Spitfire-LFIX tests in NII-VVS.
> The original NII-VVS sources I have are only
> about captured LW planes tested in Russia in
> 1942-44.
Aper, do you have any hard data on any of the Italian aircraft used in the "Eastern Front"?
It is a bit hard to find numbers rather than "light and balanced controls...".
MC202
Dino in Reno
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Citabria, the "worst" performance for the F.IX would be at around 18,000ft, +/- 2000ft or so.
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MC202
Sorry, there are no hard data on Italian planes from NII-VVS. Actually FIAT CR-32 (that was captured in Spain as well as He-51 and Bf-109b) was tested but I didn't find the FIAT's hard data such as speed/climb charts etc. But the time of sustained turns are:
FIAT CR-32 - 13,5 sec
He-51 - 11,3 sec
Bf-109B - 16 sec (without flaps)
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Originally posted by -aper-:
MC202
Sorry, there are no hard data on Italian planes from NII-VVS. Actually FIAT CR-32 (that was captured in Spain as well as He-51 and Bf-109b) was tested but I didn't find the FIAT's hard data such as speed/climb charts etc. But the time of sustained turns are:
FIAT CR-32 - 13,5 sec
He-51 - 11,3 sec
Bf-109B - 16 sec (without flaps)
Huh?!?!?! A He-51 outturning a CR32?...
Well I used to think that the italian CR32 biplanes were the most maneouverable birds over Spanish skies!...
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*crackle hisss*...CR.32: 84.4kg/m^2, He 51:69.7kg/m^2...*fizz pop*
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RIF-RAF?
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Mino
The Wrecking Crew
"OUCH!!! It hurts to bite your tongue."
Popeye
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Well I used to think that the italian CR32 biplanes were the most maneouverable birds over Spanish skies!...
RAM
Actually the best turner of the Spain war was I-15.
Her sustained turn time was ... 8,3 sec (!)
I-152 and I-16 were also a very good turners:
I-152 - 10,5 sec
I-16 type5 - 14 sec
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I want an I-16 for AH. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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From RAM
> Huh?!?!?! A He-51 outturning a CR32?...
> Well I used to think that the italian CR32
> biplanes were the most maneouverable birds
> over Spanish skies!...
As I recall.... Speed in dive, speed in level flight, strong airframe, no vices, and use of .50 cals were the good points.
That and they look cool... :-)
P.S. Thanks aper
MC202
Dino in Reno