Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Vinkman on October 16, 2009, 07:50:41 AM
-
I'm interested in the modelling of the destructive power of the Ammunition in the game. The Kenetic engery protion is easy enough to figure out, but what about the explosive energy of cannon rounds? Is this a fixed amount and is it just an engery number that can be looked up or something?
I've noticed lately that a single shot from the 37mm in the P-39 can explode the bandit if I'm within 200 yrds. But from say 600 it can take 2 or three hits. This would suggest that the kenetic energy portion of the damage from the round is much larger than the explosive portion (at initial muzzle velocity), and that the explosive mortion might be fairly low such that a slow moving 37mm round near the end of it's flight path might not be very lethal. I hit T=-Bolt the other day with 3 rounds from 400-600 yrds and he flea away without losing a part and when killed a few moments later, I only got an assist. Put a single round in a Zeke at 600 yds two days ago and he flew away. Put two rounds in a Typh at 400 and he flew away. But I hit a P-51 at 200 yds and he exploded on a single shot yesterday.
So what is the Energy value of the explosive portion of a cannon round, relative to the KE part (at initial muzzle velocity)
Thanks to anyone who know and can post.
-
Vinkman, look for Hammer's writeup comparing guns lethalality
some links you can check:
Aces High II Trainer Corps Website:
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/
Hammer's NetAces Website:
http://www.netaces.org/ &
Fighter Round Power writeup:
http://www.netaces.org/roundpwr/roundpwr.htm
Dok Gonzo's Aces High II Planes Comparison Website:
http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
Search the Aces High II Aircraft & Vehicles Forum:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/board,17.0.html
and do a search for any threads that Andy Williams may have contributed to, he is one of the experts on this subject........sorry I can not put my finger on his website at this current moment :-/
hope this helps, and as for DoK's website, when comparing any 4 planes, if you scroll down to bottom of results it will show you the 4 planes Guns results
edit: please not that most of these websites have not been updated to include the P39 series, but they do show the Russian 37mm cannon to give you a similar comparison.......
hope this helps
-
I believe that when you shoot and your target explodes it's because you killed the pilot. This can be confusing when you're looking at relative lethality because killing the pilot with .30 MG will look the same as with a 37mm cannon.
-
I have noticed the same thing.
But in the P-39D i take a 20mm option and i can blow cons up from 800 with just a few rounds.
Odd
-
Vinkman, look for Hammer's writeup comparing guns lethalality
some links you can check:
Aces High II Trainer Corps Website:
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/
Hammer's NetAces Website:
http://www.netaces.org/ &
Fighter Round Power writeup:
http://www.netaces.org/roundpwr/roundpwr.htm
Dok Gonzo's Aces High II Planes Comparison Website:
http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
Search the Aces High II Aircraft & Vehicles Forum:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/board,17.0.html
and do a search for any threads that Tony Williams may have contributed to, he is one of the experts on this subject........sorry I can not put my finger on his website at this current moment :-/
hope this helps, and as for DoK's website, when comparing any 4 planes, if you scroll down to bottom of results it will show you the 4 planes Guns results
edit: please not that most of these websites have not been updated to include the P39 series, but they do show the Russian 37mm cannon to give you a similar comparison.......
hope this helps
Andy is a singer :)
-
Vinkman, look for Hammer's writeup comparing guns lethalality
some links you can check:
Aces High II Trainer Corps Website:
http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/
Hammer's NetAces Website:
http://www.netaces.org/ &
Fighter Round Power writeup:
http://www.netaces.org/roundpwr/roundpwr.htm
Dok Gonzo's Aces High II Planes Comparison Website:
http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php
Search the Aces High II Aircraft & Vehicles Forum:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/board,17.0.html
and do a search for any threads that Andy Williams may have contributed to, he is one of the experts on this subject........sorry I can not put my finger on his website at this current moment :-/
hope this helps, and as for DoK's website, when comparing any 4 planes, if you scroll down to bottom of results it will show you the 4 planes Guns results
edit: please not that most of these websites have not been updated to include the P39 series, but they do show the Russian 37mm cannon to give you a similar comparison.......
hope this helps
Helps tremendously as does the Net ACES sight which I wasn;t aware of. Great stuff on there including lots of data on plain performance and other things I had asked about before on the boards but did not get a reference too. So thanks for that. I think the flying target command is exactly what I've been looking for, for gunnery drills and practice, and I had no idea until today that it existed.
:aok huge help. Thanks again
-
I fly the P-39 frequently (now in preparation for Red Storm almost exclusively) I can assure you that one 37 mm hit can kill a fighter sized opponent, no matter if 200, 400 or 600 yards away. It never happend to me that it would take 2 or even 3 rounds. 2 days ago I hit a P-47M at 400+ with one round - it instantly blew up.
-
I took a 37mm round from a Yak-9T when I was flying a Spitfire Mk XIV at a range of about 900 yards. The only damage was a radiator.
-
Andy is a singer :)
lol my bad, thanks for the fix
yes it is Tony Williams........ ~S~
-
"But I hit a P-51 at 200 yds and he exploded on a single shot yesterday"
God Bless You. ;)
-
The actual NS-37 cannon on the Yak-9T fired an exploding shell that weighed 11,343 grains at 2,952 fps.
Compare that to the M1 Garand rifle which fired a 150 grain bullet around 2,740 fps and could cleanly kill about any animal on the planet. Or the 12.7mm/.50 cal Browning, most US fighters having 6 , which fired a 700 grain class ball bullet at about 2,840 fps.
Most likely your Spit was hit by the 12.7mm MG also on the Yak-9T. Tho I suspect anything is possible in cartoonLand.
-
The actual NS-37 cannon on the Yak-9T fired an exploding shell that weighed 11,343 grains at 2,952 fps.
Compare that to the M1 Garand rifle which fired a 150 grain bullet around 2,740 fps and could cleanly kill about any animal on the planet. Or the 12.7mm/.50 cal Browning, most US fighters having 6 , which fired a 700 grain class ball bullet at about 2,840 fps.
Most likely your Spit was hit by the 12.7mm MG also on the Yak-9T. Tho I suspect anything is possible in cartoonLand.
Nope, he was firing the 37mm only. I didn't even know it was a Yak-9T until after I landed and talked to him about it. He was quite shocked that I kept flying. He probably just nicked the bottom edge of the radiator and the surrounding structure had just enough "hit points" to survive the blast damage.
I had actually thought it was a Yak-9U as it was staying with me so well, that is why I hadn't been taking the long range pot shots seriously. I guess playing dodgeball with the Me262 I'd been tangling with for the last 15-20 minutes was keeping me slow enough to just give the Yak-9T hope.
EDIT:
This happened back in AH1, long before the icons were changed to reveal subtypes and ranges were shown exactly.
-
I fly 9t and the only time they don't instantly explode I've seen their entire wing go flying the other direction.
Mostly though no matter what distance, if it lands they die... :rock
-
Im just fleshing out the 9T lately. Ive taken some thumps with it cause I upp it in hopeless causes but the big cannon is worth it. Surprisingly, since I fly the IL2 pretty well, Im having a little trouble with the 37s on the Yak. If we got the Yak-3 I could happily spend the rest of my AH career flying only Yaks. If we got the TU-2 as well I'd probably never leave the Russian set. Thats how good it is.
You know when you have some time in the game when you cant remember the last time you were in a 5 ENy aircraft. At 23 eny and 30 eny respectfully the Yaks can beat anything if flown well. :salute
-
Nope, he was firing the 37mm only. I didn't even know it was a Yak-9T until after I landed and talked to him about it. He was quite shocked that I kept flying. He probably just nicked the bottom edge of the radiator and the surrounding structure had just enough "hit points" to survive the blast damage.
I had actually thought it was a Yak-9U as it was staying with me so well, that is why I hadn't been taking the long range pot shots seriously. I guess playing dodgeball with the Me262 I'd been tangling with for the last 15-20 minutes was keeping me slow enough to just give the Yak-9T hope.
EDIT:
This happened back in AH1, long before the icons were changed to reveal subtypes and ranges were shown exactly.
He did not actually hit your plane at all, the spitfire saw the tater coming, and started to leak fluids in fear. Basically it pissed on itself. :bolt:
-
Vinkman, I wouldn't read too much into what you see from 37mm damage. The damage model on small fighters is completely fubar when taking fire from the larger autocannons, i.e. 30 and 37mm.
-
If we got the Yak-3 I could happily spend the rest of my AH career flying only Yaks...
Now...wouldn't THIS be fun!?
(http://www.controller.com/images/Controller/fullsize/78850741.jpg)
Yak 3M for sale :aok http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft-for-sale/YAKOVLEV-YAK-3M/1994-YAKOVLEV-YAK-3M/1143407.htm (http://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft-for-sale/YAKOVLEV-YAK-3M/1994-YAKOVLEV-YAK-3M/1143407.htm)
-
The Yak-3 is going to be a massive disappointment to some people.
-
I think if you like flying the Yaks we have now you will enjoy the Yak 3 if we ever get it. If you don't you won't.
<S>
-
I think if you like flying the Yaks we have now you will enjoy the Yak 3 if we ever get it. If you don't you won't.
<S>
The people who will be disappointed are the Yak fans who don't realize the difference between a WWII Yak-3 and a post war Yak-3. They look at the superb numbers put out by the post war Yak-3 and drool.
The WWII Yak-3 is going to be very potent, but it isn't going to be amazing. There is only so much that can be done with a 1200hp engine.
-
I would very much like to see the 1944 Klimov-105 Yak-3 in AH. At only 5850 lbs loaded, its @1200 lbs lighter than a Yak-9U, and @800 lbs lighter than the Yak-9T, and its speed and climb are better than a Yak-9T, while having the 20mm nose and 2 x 12.7s rather than the 37mm. It had a great reputation for being nimble in a dogfight, with a great little bubble canopy. Nothing not to like. The Yak-9U would still be top dog for brute speed, but not handling.
As for the war, it got its reputation during the war, not after. Both the Luftwaffe and VVS pilots that flew it had a very healthy regard for its abilities. No, it would not be super uber, but I think it would be very competative, and a blast to take up.
-
FYI, there were plenty of standard Yak-9s without the 37mm. I'd like to see the Yak-9D in AH.
-
FYI, there were plenty of standard Yak-9s without the 37mm. I'd like to see the Yak-9D in AH.
Yak-9D = Yak-9U with more fuel.
Slower Yak. Longer range.
wrongway
-
As for the war, it got its reputation during the war, not after. Both the Luftwaffe and VVS pilots that flew it had a very healthy regard for its abilities. No, it would not be super uber, but I think it would be very competative, and a blast to take up.
True, but I was referring to the numbers people think it had. The see the 107 powered Yak-3's numbers and think that is what they'd get.
-
True, but I was referring to the numbers people think it had. The see the 107 powered Yak-3's numbers and think that is what they'd get.
For me it's the look Karnak! I honestly don't know too much about performance numbers. You gotta admit she is one sexy looking bird!!!
(http://www.ctrl-c.liu.se/misc/ram/yak-3m.jpg)
-
If they aren't side-by-side, the Yak-9U and Yak-3 are difficult to tell apart waystin.
(http://laszlonyary.com/Indy08/lg/yak9-04_std.jpg)
-
Vinkman, I wouldn't read too much into what you see from 37mm damage. The damage model on small fighters is completely fubar when taking fire from the larger autocannons, i.e. 30 and 37mm.
I have noticed that the AH hit model is way better than the old AW hit model. As we fly through planes on the runway, I notice how many of the internal components are modelled on the planes in AH. I assume the pullets paths are tracked for their impact on specific plane components including the pilot. I further assume that if the plane absorbs enough damage it explodes, but I also heard that if the pilot dies the plane explodes. The latter I find interesting because it relates to an encounter I had with a me-109 yesterday. We met at about 10k and nice stall fight ensued, I had an early advantage and got few .50 cal pings on him, but as time went on, the stall buzzer became constant rather than intermittent, and the nose of the ME-109 drifted towards me and I simply didn't have the energy to get out of its way. He lit me up amidship with his 30mm and I was spewing oil, fuel, and coolant. As both planes stalled out, My P-39 and his 30mm cannon fell out of coincidental vectors and I lived to spin to the deck for several rotations until I could regain level flight. The 109 having not departed, leveled out and then went inverted, no doubt to watch me plummet to the earth, or perhaps to get ready to chace me down and finish me off. He was above my at about 1000 ft and in complete anger and frustration I pulled the nose of my P-39 vertical at 150 mph and emptied all my .50 cal ammo in his direction in the hopes of desperation ping. I hit nothing. As my plane again began to slide out of controlled flight, I made what ever adjustments were still possible to get the nose to fall off in the direction of the 109's flight vector which was from my 3 o'clock to my 9 o'clock. Out of .50 cal I figured I would throw one last shot across his bow and pushed the secondary trigger button and fired a single 37mm straight up in his direction. He seemed to hang in space as the smoke trail from the round tracked towards him as though it were a Stinger missile. It hit him right in the cockpit, there was a flash, and 1 second later his plane exploded. :x I laughed at my unbelievable good luck, and apologised to the bandit on 200, who's name escapes me. [If you read this, maybe you filled it?]
Back the point of the thread, I don't know if the 37mm would have destroyed the plane at 800yds or if it was because it hit him in the cockpit and killed the pilot. Strangely at that point I didn't care :aok
Vinkman