Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: the4ork on October 17, 2009, 01:45:37 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHNxUR_nh3k
i got the new HD5770 vid card... which can do 3 monitors like this right out of the box...
question is... 3 monitors (prabably 22") or one huge monitor (hdtv lcd, prabably 42")
im wondering how well the gameplay would improve with 3 monitors, and the TrackIR?
too bad you couldnt have one monitor always at your check6 view lol
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Any chance you know the exact length of the 5870?
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From playing on multi screens a little i would say they are very fun and the side-splits do not really bother you after five minutes. On the other hand, I recently upgraded from a 17" CRT monitor i was forced to use onto a 37inch widescreen flat TV. It's awesome playing on one big screen and with the widescreen options in AH and 1920X1080 res the game looks amazing. You don't really need the side panels unless money is no object, imo.
Taken with a webcam, raw image is crystal clear. Made by Samsung
(http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/pigpen.jpg)
Just like to add that another reason to get the 1 big tele option is the pixels advantages. For instance on this 37in it is still possible to see the plane shape right out to about 4.0k before it turns to a signle black dot. Even with three screen the 22in monitors wouldnt give that same clarity i dont think. If you get a 42in screen you will possibly be able to read the registration down the side of the plane from quite a distance.. :eek:
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go with 3 of the 42" :O
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Just like to add that another reason to get the 1 big tele option is the pixels advantages. For instance on this 37in it is still possible to see the plane shape right out to about 4.0k before it turns to a signle black dot. Even with three screen the 22in monitors wouldnt give that same clarity i dont think. If you get a 42in screen you will possibly be able to read the registration down the side of the plane from quite a distance.. :eek:
Monitors are higher res than televisions, I'd assume since they're meant to be viewed closer up... for example my LG 22" is the standard 22" resolution 1680x1050.... that's only 140x30 pixels less than the TV with 15 more diagonal inches.
3 standard 22" monitors gives 5040x1050 resolution
That said any of these setups would be sweet.
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Does the graphics card have to work 3 times harder to fill the pixels in the three monitors (i.e. 5040x1050)? Would that have an adverse impact on frame rate?
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Man I just love this stuff, I wish I had more money :aok
Cheers,
gus
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Monitors are higher res than televisions, I'd assume since they're meant to be viewed closer up... for example my LG 22" is the standard 22" resolution 1680x1050.... that's only 140x30 pixels less than the TV with 15 more diagonal inches.
3 standard 22" monitors gives 5040x1050 resolution
Didn't know that, thanks. :o
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Eyefinity is going to be a good thing!
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=25945
I'm waiting for smaller Samsungs with the ultra-thin bezels for a multi-screen setup. Would love to have 3 24" monitors out in front of me :x I bet Matrox is not too happy about this move by ATI...
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Any chance you know the exact length of the 5870?
Folks are saying these things are around 11.5 inches mate. Basically everything from "11.5 inches" to "it's as long as my MB is wide".
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Folks are saying these things are around 11.5 inches mate. Basically everything from "11.5 inches" to "it's as long as my MB is wide".
thats a whole lot of gfx card ! I hope your case can take it Kaz. Hope she doesn't complain either.
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thats a whole lot of gfx card ! I hope your case can take it Kaz. Hope she doesn't complain either.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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I use a 47inch, its awesome. no doubt... But be aware, that the Matrox TH2go will not support 3 monitors at full 1920x1080res as of yet..
That equals 5760res in the horizontal plane, which is just beyond the capacity of the Matrox unit... With a lower resolution, it will work...
I've read that the next version of Matrox will handle it tho.. Hope so, I'm looking forward to that!!
Triple head gives a wider FOV... But I luv the giant monitor, because I can SEE more (lifesize), than just a tiny speck of a target..
Either way, Its a big improvement, and well worth the expense..
RC
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mine is a 42" LCD and i luv flyin on it...here is a couple pics..
dont pay attention to the dates as i didnt set the date on the camera after recharging the batteries...
its my TV also :)
(http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/8/l_8249994fb4134727a3567d14889adb4c.jpg)
rep'n AH! woot! :)
(http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/84/l_bdffeaa911f147c3bcbe76d4e940f8f0.jpg)
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Monitors are sooo 20th century http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/wiki/index.php/Virtual_Reality :D
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I'm going to get some of those one day, Vulcan. :pray
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Having played flight sims online for over 10 years, I've played on most resolutions from 1024x768 and up. The most bang for the buck you can get with a 1920x1200 screen imo typically on a 24" widescreen (16:10) LED. It's a nice resolution which will give you a little more than a larger +30" TV screen which is typically 1920x1080 (HD).
Currently I'm using a 30" LED on a resolution of 2560x1600 and I gotta tell you, nothing beat that for clarity. It is still a fairly big screen comparable to a 30" TV, but with considerably higher resolution than the HD standard of 1920x1080. The level of detail is simply stunning, and you will be able to read the movement of objects (typically aircraft in a flight sim) instantly.
A good 30" 2560x1600 display will cost you a little more than a 3-screen setup including a matrox triplehead2go, but is worth it if you ask me. Whether you prefer 3 x 1680x1050 screens or a single 2560x1600 monitor is totally up to you. I've not tested the triple screen setup so can't honestly say I know the difference, but can imagine the level of immersion from the much wider perspective must be quite something. You will get a impression of speed, especially at low level, that is impossible without the side panels. I opted for maximum detail and image quality, something I do not regret but I don't think you'll regret either option whichever you choose.
Keep in mind though, a big screen does not mean better image quality.
Here is a example of what 2560x1600 looks like. At 59-60 fps it doesn't get any better than this.
download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?k2mdmjyttgv
Image:
(http://www.mediafire.com/?k2mdmjyttgv)
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Does the graphics card have to work 3 times harder to fill the pixels in the three monitors (i.e. 5040x1050)? Would that have an adverse impact on frame rate?
Yes it has to work harder, but the reviews I've read have indicated that at even 3x the resolution of a decent 24" widescreen monitor, framerates are very playable with ansio filtering and anti-aliasing turned on.
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Here is a example of what 2560x1600 looks like. At 59-60 fps it doesn't get any better than this.
Yeah it does actually... Stereo 3D.
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Yeah it does actually... Stereo 3D.
And what resolution is availabe in the Stereo 3D devices? 800x600? That's just... :lol
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And what resolution is availabe in the Stereo 3D devices? 800x600? That's just... :lol
Ahh actually whatever the monitors go too. (feel silly now? you should :D)
However if you're talking VR my headset goes to 800x600 (per panel so in 3d it's effectively 1600x600) yup, but that's more than enough given that it's tied to head tracking, it's far more immersive than any bank of monitors would be.
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Ok I misinterpreted as VR, 1600 is decent but the 600 vertical line kinda screw it. I bet it's immersive but my main concern is image quality, primarily resolution. Doesn't stereo 3D require panels capable of 100 Hz or something? If so that rules out about 99% of the flatpanels on the market.
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Don't have much experience with big displays and high resolutions or the Tripl-Head.
But from a theoretical perspective, I'd have to say it depends on what you want. Going off of what Turner mentioned about high res - the resolution will give you much better detail. This would probably help greatly in dogfighting (judging the opponent's attitude - speed and direction etc) something which I find quite lacking with my 1280x1024 display and crappy integrated graphics card. I frequently have to zoom in to see that kind of detail. I imagine that would much less necessary with a big high res display.
Tripl-head looks like it's better for SA and immersion. Seems like you'll be able to use your natural peripheral vision to detect threats. Tripl-head would probably be incredible with TrackIR as well.
Note you might be able to use the 3 monitors to compensate for the lower res disadvantage when judging an opponent's attitude by simply zooming in. Might be a good workaround that gives the best of both worlds.
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With 47inch 1080res, 1024 textures, no zoom is needed, because everything is extremely close to lifesize... You just position the monitor at the correct spot where the windshield frame would be in the real plane... Everything is 1 to 1 visual scale, (or extremely close to reality)... With TIR5, its wow status, like looking out of a real cockpit...
(Actually, measurement wise, 52inch would make the canopy frame/gunsight size about perfect)
With 120hz, there is NO ghosting... 120hz is the standard these days, 240hz is the new thing... So the price of 120s is coming down quickly.. 60hz is yesterday stuff, but they work too, if you get one with good response times.. Be careful what you buy in 60hz, because the manufacturers fudge the numbers on response times... And the bigger the screen, the slower they are... 6ms or less works great, from my own testing before I bought this one...
Bigger monitor is definately cool, combined with the stick mounted between the knees, pedals, and a side throttle, the game will absolutely suck you IN! Can't wait to try it with the new WWI planes...
RC
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Well, big screens are very immersive but what I'm trying to convey is the importance of resolution. Since the human eye is capable of seeing at vastly greater resolution than any human-made computer graphics monitor is capable of, the brain is always lacking visual information compared to what would be available if it was a real situation. So to compensate for that we have the tags, to make it easier to identify planes at range (as well as judge the distance) because it's simply not possible through the computer interface to see what irl would have been identified as friend/foe. Resolution is the #1 factor when it comes to shooting accuracy. Immersion is a completly different aspect and has little to do with resolution, but immersion can be good for SA and it raises the fun factor for sure. This is where the big screens come into play, to get the immersion level and fun factor up.
If the triplehead supported 3 screens at 2560x1600 resolution, I'd be all over it. It will probably be a few years before we see that capacity though.
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If the triplehead supported 3 screens at 2560x1600 resolution, I'd be all over it. It will probably be a few years before we see that capacity though.
The SofTH "triplehead" software form Kegetys.net (http://www.kegetys.net/SoftTH/) doesn't have the resolution restrictions of the Matrox setup.
I'm using the SoftTH "triplehead" v1.09 rc1 software to quite happily run three Dell UltraSharp 3008WFP (http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&sku=142660) Monitors.
Each monitor at 1600x2560 (portrait mount) + 100 pixel overlap, means I run AH in a resolution of 5000x2560 and the three monitors give me a viewable area of about 56" corner to corner.
There's some pictures in this post (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,272318.0.html).
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If the triplehead supported 3 screens at 2560x1600 resolution, I'd be all over it. It will probably be a few years before we see that capacity though.
Eyefinity on the newest Radeon 5800 series cards also support that resolution and they test it out on 3 x 30in monitors.
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=793&type=expert&pid=1 (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=793&type=expert&pid=1)
That resolution will quite likely require 2 cards in Crossfire (not currently supported, but coming soon) or the as yet unreleased 5870x2 dual GPU card when running any kind of demanding game.
Nice setup Conan. :salute
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The SofTH "triplehead" software form Kegetys.net (http://www.kegetys.net/SoftTH/) doesn't have the resolution restrictions of the Matrox setup.
I'm using the SoftTH "triplehead" v1.09 rc1 software to quite happily run three Dell UltraSharp 3008WFP (http://accessories.euro.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=uk&l=en&s=dhs&cs=ukdhs1&sku=142660) Monitors.
Each monitor at 1600x2560 (portrait mount) + 100 pixel overlap, means I run AH in a resolution of 5000x2560 and the three monitors give me a viewable area of about 56" corner to corner.
There's some pictures in this post (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,272318.0.html).
That's a fantastic setup, and you even rotated the screens vertically. Did you try out a "normal" mount setup ie 7680x1600 resolution? That's probably the setup I'd choose, do you know how it compares to the 5000x2560 res you use?
Also, very nice work on the cockpit. I'll be looking into buying another 2 30" panels now... and the triplehead gear, didn't know that was possible. :x
:aok
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Did you try out a "normal" mount setup i.e. 7680x1600 resolution?
Yep tried that first, the three monitors side by side (landscape) take up about 85 inch of desk space i.e. most of the room.
I found this just emphasizes the felling of looking through a post box (albeit a very large one) and made me feel sick. Portrait mounting helps keep the aspect ratio similar to one large screen but with a slightly larger field of view. (AH Auto Set Field Of View comes up with 111).
Be warned though you'll need some serious computing power to run this sort of a setup.
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Be warned though you'll need some serious computing power to run this sort of a setup.
Yeah... will need to build a whole new system around that setup. It will probably have to wait until I do my next complete system upgrade so probably best to chill for now and do some research before running to the store lol. The system I'm on now is about 15 months old and I put 2 x GTX280 cards in it to not have any issues with max detail on a 2560x1600 res. Obviously 3 screens demand more computing power than 1 heh.
Thanks for all the info, this is awesome did not even know it was possible. :salute
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Hot Damn, that looks REALLY good conan! Best of both!!
I think I'd go for the panoramic horizontal view tho, so it includes peripheral vision as well...
(thats prob what causes that sick feeling) A little vertigo workin between your eye/inner ear, LOL!!! I'd love it!!!
All good setups... LOL, impressive what ppl will do for this game huh?
RC
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All good setups... LOL, impressive what ppl will do for this game huh?
To some it's more than a game, it's part of a life-long passion for flight that runs deeper than anything else.
:salute
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To give you an idea of the different feel you get with portrait vs. landscape here's three screen shots:
(http://websites.cable.ntl.com/~simon.shaw/forum_pics/ahss2560x1600x100_small.jpg)
Standard 30" Widescreen 2560x1600, 100 field of view set.
(http://websites.cable.ntl.com/~simon.shaw/forum_pics/ahss5000x2560x111_small.jpg)
3 X 30" Widescreen portrait 5000x2560, 111 field of view set.
(http://websites.cable.ntl.com/~simon.shaw/forum_pics/ahss7880x1600x145_small.jpg)
3 X 30" Widescreen landscape 7880x1600, 145 field of view set.
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The top one would be my current view. The last one is just sick with that resolution! The middle one seem to offer more of a 16:9 ratio than 16:10, which is kinda nice. Also the resolution you get from the 5000x2560 setup should be closer to lifelike detail than anything else available. Of course the render detail range is still what visual information you get.
Thanks for the pics, helps with getting a perspective on it so to speak.
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Having played flight sims online for over 10 years, I've played on most resolutions from 1024x768 and up. The most bang for the buck you can get with a 1920x1200 screen imo typically on a 24" widescreen (16:10) LED. It's a nice resolution which will give you a little more than a larger +30" TV screen which is typically 1920x1080 (HD).
Currently I'm using a 30" LED on a resolution of 2560x1600 and I gotta tell you, nothing beat that for clarity. It is still a fairly big screen comparable to a 30" TV, but with considerably higher resolution than the HD standard of 1920x1080. The level of detail is simply stunning, and you will be able to read the movement of objects (typically aircraft in a flight sim) instantly.
A good 30" 2560x1600 display will cost you a little more than a 3-screen setup including a matrox triplehead2go, but is worth it if you ask me. Whether you prefer 3 x 1680x1050 screens or a single 2560x1600 monitor is totally up to you. I've not tested the triple screen setup so can't honestly say I know the difference, but can imagine the level of immersion from the much wider perspective must be quite something. You will get a impression of speed, especially at low level, that is impossible without the side panels. I opted for maximum detail and image quality, something I do not regret but I don't think you'll regret either option whichever you choose.
Keep in mind though, a big screen does not mean better image quality.
Here is a example of what 2560x1600 looks like. At 59-60 fps it doesn't get any better than this.
download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?k2mdmjyttgv
Image:
(http://www.mediafire.com/?k2mdmjyttgv)
2560x1600 is a little overkill for todays gamer market.
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2560x1600 is a little overkill for todays gamer market.
The game developers are nowadays usuallly supporting 1920x1200, but beyond that it's a hit or miss kinda thing. Some games support higher resolutions while others don't. It should be up to the end customer to decide what he want for hardware and gfx resolution, so I think they should leave it more open ended and at least support custom resolutions. AH does, and that is a good move.
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Ok I misinterpreted as VR, 1600 is decent but the 600 vertical line kinda screw it. I bet it's immersive but my main concern is image quality, primarily resolution. Doesn't stereo 3D require panels capable of 100 Hz or something? If so that rules out about 99% of the flatpanels on the market.
Good stereo requires 120Hz, and there are many coming out as there is a big push towards consumer stereo 3d equipment.
The VR side.... the display is like a having a 60" monitor a couple of feet away. IMHO having stereo 3d makes up for the higher resolution. Depth makes more of a difference than smoother lines. And the head tracking with the screens on your face.... well who cares if its landscape or portrait, wherever I look I see AH :)
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I run dual 9800 gtx + sli'd on a 26 hdtv with the hdmi cable. Love it piture quality is awesome. But that's my personal opinion,
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Good stereo requires 120Hz, and there are many coming out as there is a big push towards consumer stereo 3d equipment.
The VR side.... the display is like a having a 60" monitor a couple of feet away. IMHO having stereo 3d makes up for the higher resolution. Depth makes more of a difference than smoother lines. And the head tracking with the screens on your face.... well who cares if its landscape or portrait, wherever I look I see AH :)
that VR thing is awesome, and more economically feasible for me than triple or hex monitors on the ati eyefinity cards. thanks for sharing. :aok
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Since the human eye is capable of seeing at vastly greater resolution than any human-made computer graphics monitor is capable of, the brain is always lacking visual information compared to what would be available if it was a real situation. So to compensate for that we have the tags, to make it easier to identify planes at range (as well as judge the distance) because it's simply not possible through the computer interface to see what irl would have been identified as friend/foe. Resolution is the #1 factor when it comes to shooting accuracy.
Yup, that's why if I absolutely had to choose, I'd go with the bigger monitor. The advantage isn't even limited to shooting accuracy - the more details you can make out about the enemy aircraft's position, the better you are equipped to make smart ACM decisions. It is why good eyesight is so highly valued for real fighter pilots, and unfortunately why I had to give up on that idea at an early age (I have pretty bad eyesight).
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No complaints with 60" monitor @ 8'. Started using 50" monitor bout 6 years ago, then 58" and 60" last 2 years.
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Yup, that's why if I absolutely had to choose, I'd go with the bigger monitor. The advantage isn't even limited to shooting accuracy - the more details you can make out about the enemy aircraft's position, the better you are equipped to make smart ACM decisions. It is why good eyesight is so highly valued for real fighter pilots ...
Fine. Where as ... tried my current monitor at 1600 x 1200 for a goodly while ... and just recently went back to 1280 x 1024. The teeny weeny dots weren't doing it for me. Give me what I have now times THREE and that would be GOLD! That final image from 33Vortex is exactly what I'm looking for. Played for awhile on my 50 in Plasma at 1360 x 768, (the max useable res it supports), and while beautiful, the height isn't enough. Not even remotely convinced that 2560 x 1600 will give me what I need. Keep your 30 in displays, ... give me 3 at a useable res and half the price for Aces High.
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A new web site 1 screen instead of three. This is one curved screen done with projectors with this software.http://nthusim.com/ (http://nthusim.com/)
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Just wait for OLED's displays to hit the consumer market, with OLED it's possible to form of a single curved-widescreen display with breathtaking picture quality. Give it another 5 years though.
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I just upgraded all my equipment about a yr and a half ago.. Another 3 1/2 yrs will be about time to do it again.. Since upgrading various peices of hardware, I havent really paid much attn to them since. But have been hearing little bits about OLED, Flexible screens, dome shaped screens, and 3D for the home consumer market. Sounds like some kind of miniature IMAX theater in your living room.. If that is the video future, holy smokes! Just make sure to Keep the barf bag handy!
RC
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flying the triple screen was very trick! the only thing i did not like was the fish eye look of it! if you like to gv as well tho the single screen is much better IMO. i have had both, the triple with three 26 inch samsungs, and I now play with only one 26 inch, I don't miss all the extra view, it seemed to me to distract from the needed focus area!
just my opinion tho, like i said i went to the triple head with a good enough computer to run it well and yet went back to the single screen, but my reason was because of the fact that i like to gv, and did not like the views out of a tank at all!!