Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: bustr on October 19, 2009, 11:42:04 PM

Title: B25 and HVAR
Post by: bustr on October 19, 2009, 11:42:04 PM
I've come across refrences recently that the B25H and J versions could carry 8 HVAR. I found refrences to the Marine bomber groups in the Pacific using them for low level work. Are we missing an ability for our B25's in Aces High?
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Stoney on October 20, 2009, 12:45:41 AM
It was a matter of the past ordnance system being limited to a certain number of points on each aircraft (16 IIRC).  The B-25H in-game would exceed that number if the rockets were added, so they left them off.  My recollection of the specifics are hazy--I probably misunderstood some of the details, but the concept was Skuzzy or Pyro addressed shortly after the H model was introduced.
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: bustr on October 20, 2009, 06:08:20 AM
Sorry to hear that. But I can understand the limitation. I have a picture of a British Costal Command B24 with an HVAR 4 rocket frame mounted low on the fuselage just under the pilots compartment for submarine duty. That would add fuel to the LankStuka complaints. Does the mount point limitation preclude the torpedo capability on B25's?  :) 
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Stoney on October 20, 2009, 08:12:52 AM
Well, remember that in version 2.15 they changed the way the ordnance system works for the aircraft models, so I think we'll see a change going forward.
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Yossarian on October 20, 2009, 01:19:01 PM
Sorry if this is a bit of a hijack, but I've heard that the B-25H could carry armour piercing rounds for its 75mm artillery piece... :x
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Saxman on October 20, 2009, 03:49:36 PM
Sorry if this is a bit of a hijack, but I've heard that the B-25H could carry armour piercing rounds for its 75mm artillery piece... :x

I've been asking for those for a while. I think they carried a mix of 5-6AP and the rest HE. Oh, the WHINES that will commence when Tigers get popped from 3k out. :D
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Spikes on October 20, 2009, 06:11:50 PM
The B-25 is definately a fun plane to fly, and it's sort of a hanger queen...HVAR's and AP rds, bring them on!
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Motherland on October 20, 2009, 08:10:57 PM
The B-25 is definately a fun plane to fly, and it's sort of a hanger queen...HVAR's and AP rds, bring them on!
How exactly do you define hangar queen? The B25H can be found at any and nearly every GV battle- almost as commonly as the Il-2
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Guppy35 on October 20, 2009, 11:02:49 PM
Looks like one Marine Group used rockets.  Interesting comment in a history of the Marine B25s.  In regards to the B25H one pilot commented "They weren't worth a damn!"

As with the USAAF guys, the low rate of fire was the complaint.  The 50s were more effective.
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: AWwrgwy on October 20, 2009, 11:23:29 PM
Sorry if this is a bit of a hijack, but I've heard that the B-25H could carry armour piercing rounds for its 75mm artillery piece... :x

I've been dying to ask this.....

Heard where?

This message board is the only place I've heard of AP rounds carried.  Admittedly I have not researched it much.


wrongway
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Saxman on October 20, 2009, 11:44:56 PM
I've been dying to ask this.....

Heard where?

This message board is the only place I've heard of AP rounds carried.  Admittedly I have not researched it much.


wrongway

I think a while back someone posted a link to a squadron's war journal that indicated AP rounds were used during some sorties.
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 21, 2009, 03:07:33 AM
Looks like one Marine Group used rockets.  Interesting comment in a history of the Marine B25s.  In regards to the B25H one pilot commented "They weren't worth a damn!"

As with the USAAF guys, the low rate of fire was the complaint.  The 50s were more effective.

Heard the USAAF in the CBI liked the B-25H, same with the Nationalist Chinese.  Both liked the B-25H because it was effective in knocking out road convoys and trains.


ack-ack
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Stoney on October 21, 2009, 12:18:52 PM
Looks like one Marine Group used rockets.  Interesting comment in a history of the Marine B25s.  In regards to the B25H one pilot commented "They weren't worth a damn!"

As with the USAAF guys, the low rate of fire was the complaint.  The 50s were more effective.

I don't know about the USAAF, but the USMC never employed the B25H in its designed mission--anti-shipping.  I would think the radar controlled gun would have been more of a factor if it hadn't been used so much against ground targets.
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Yossarian on October 21, 2009, 02:01:20 PM
I've been dying to ask this.....

Heard where?

This message board is the only place I've heard of AP rounds carried.  Admittedly I have not researched it much.


wrongway

I just Googled it, and found the following things (albeit for the B-25G...):
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=274G1AwCS2wC&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=B-25G+Armor+piercing+75mm&source=bl&ots=8RTRZPZ26s&sig=GIEAQ_JLhhc0cqlOWWkkAwgzoK0&hl=en&ei=b1PfSsyQLIT84AbHnbkQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=274G1AwCS2wC&pg=PA44&lpg=PA44&dq=B-25G+Armor+piercing+75mm&source=bl&ots=8RTRZPZ26s&sig=GIEAQ_JLhhc0cqlOWWkkAwgzoK0&hl=en&ei=b1PfSsyQLIT84AbHnbkQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=&f=false)

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/weapons/q0174.shtml (http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/weapons/q0174.shtml)

http://sill-www.army.mil/famag/1976/JUL_AUG_1976/JUL_AUG_1976_PAGES_25_29.pdf (http://sill-www.army.mil/famag/1976/JUL_AUG_1976/JUL_AUG_1976_PAGES_25_29.pdf)

http://57thbombwing.com/321stHistory/321_BG_1943-08.pdf (http://57thbombwing.com/321stHistory/321_BG_1943-08.pdf)

And this may be the old thread about the AP rounds: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,249773.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,249773.0.html)
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Spikes on October 21, 2009, 04:24:52 PM
How exactly do you define hangar queen? The B25H can be found at any and nearly every GV battle- almost as commonly as the Il-2

Personally, if there is a plane that does it better, you'll more than likely see that plane more (in this instance, IL2). I know it is used, but I see the IL2 a helluva lot more than the 25H,
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Saxman on October 21, 2009, 04:30:26 PM

Personally, if there is a plane that does it better, you'll more than likely see that plane more (in this instance, IL2). I know it is used, but I see the IL2 a helluva lot more than the 25H,

That'll change REALLY quick if the 25H gets AP rounds....
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Spikes on October 21, 2009, 04:33:57 PM
That'll change REALLY quick if the 25H gets AP rounds....
Oh definitely, it will also be used more in the A2G attack role other than CAS with those 8 HVAR's.
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Yossarian on October 21, 2009, 05:45:04 PM
HVAR and AP for the B-25 are the two things I actually want more for this game than the A-26...it is close though  :x
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 21, 2009, 05:51:06 PM
I'd also like the ability to lock the top turret in the forward position.


ack-ack
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Motherland on October 21, 2009, 07:24:32 PM

Personally, if there is a plane that does it better, you'll more than likely see that plane more (in this instance, IL2). I know it is used, but I see the IL2 a helluva lot more than the 25H,
It's not a matter of personal opinion, the B-25H can commonly be found at GV battles. It's not, as you say, as popular as the Il-2, but the La 7 is not as popular as the P51, and it's certainly not a hangar queen.
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Saxman on October 21, 2009, 07:29:43 PM
I'd also like the ability to lock the top turret in the forward position.


ack-ack

Especially if we get a J gunship with the twelve .50s in the nose and cheeks. 14 Deuces FTW!

:D
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Yossarian on October 21, 2009, 08:27:14 PM
Especially if we get a J gunship with the twelve .50s in the nose and cheeks. 14 Deuces FTW!

:D

Wow...I didn't even know those existed until now!

I had great fun with 'only' 8 .50s today, using them to blind a silly wirble till I took it out with my 75mm  :D
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Saxman on October 21, 2009, 08:33:24 PM
Wow...I didn't even know those existed until now!

I had great fun with 'only' 8 .50s today, using them to blind a silly wirble till I took it out with my 75mm  :D

(http://www.airventure.de/reno2002/reno02_noseart11.jpg)

Feel free to count 'em. 8 in the nose, two in each cheek.

This one looks like it's missing the top turret, but many had it locked forward for a total of 14 forward .50 cal.
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Yossarian on October 21, 2009, 09:45:18 PM
Oh...dear...that looks too awesome for words  :O :aok
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: lyric1 on October 22, 2009, 12:02:20 AM
(http://www.airventure.de/reno2002/reno02_noseart11.jpg)

Feel free to count 'em. 8 in the nose, two in each cheek.

This one looks like it's missing the top turret, but many had it locked forward for a total of 14 forward .50 cal.
It is a J model we don't have that version?
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Saxman on October 22, 2009, 12:16:17 AM
Yes I know. I'm saying I wish we HAD the J so we could have the strafer version.
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Yossarian on October 22, 2009, 01:13:01 PM
How different was the -H from the -J (also, what happened to the B-25I)?  I read that the top turret was in a different location, but that's all I know.
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Saxman on October 22, 2009, 01:51:05 PM
Main difference between the H and J was the nose and armament. The B-25J had the full-length nose like the C/D, and was built in both glass-nosed and solid-nosed versions. The 25J didn't have the cannon, but the gunship variants had a TON of .50cal up front (as seen in that pic). The dorsal turret was in roughly the same location (B-25H moved the turret forward just aft the cockpit, whereas the G and earlier it was further aft, as in our C/D).

There was no "I" because it looked too much like a number 1, so was skipped for clarity (same reason that I believe there's never been an "O" variant of an American aircraft). The same is the case with the P-38, which also jumped from H to J.

Incidentally, I could have SWORN I saw a pic somewhere of a 25J that had FOUR .50cal on each cheek (two pods of two on each side) for a total of 14 guns in the nose and cheeks. Will need to see if I can find it.
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Pyro on October 22, 2009, 02:19:26 PM
Well, remember that in version 2.15 they changed the way the ordnance system works for the aircraft models, so I think we'll see a change going forward.

Yep, I'm free of that constraint now.
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Saxman on October 22, 2009, 02:26:09 PM
Yep, I'm free of that constraint now.

Tiny Tims! F4U-1D center rack!

:D
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Baumer on October 22, 2009, 02:26:49 PM
Great! Then I'd like a USMC B-25C/D       :x

With 2 forward guns in a glass nose, with the early gun packs on the nose, 4 wing hard-points for 250lbs bombs and 8 5" HVAR zero rails!

(http://www.vmb611.com/images/mb1.jpg)
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Saxman on October 22, 2009, 02:28:40 PM
Great! Then I'd like a USMC B-25C/D       :x

With 2 forward guns in a glass nose, with the early gun packs on the nose, 4 wing hard-points for 250lbs bombs and 8 5" HVAR zero rails!

(http://www.vmb611.com/images/mb1.jpg)

Careful with that image, it's liable to get the "Carrier Mitchell" dweebs going....
Title: Re: B25 and HVAR
Post by: Baumer on October 22, 2009, 02:38:15 PM
LOL yes the carrier "carried" them to the south pacific in 44.