Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Kten on October 20, 2009, 04:14:31 PM
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Korea!
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:banana:
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In before teh Shuffler!!
:bolt:
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In before teh Shuffler!!
:bolt:
:neener:
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no way korea sucks..... you really wanna fly that f86 sabre?
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yes.
ps
:banana: :banana:
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WWI - more about the man, less about the plane.
Say no to hair dryers :rock ;)
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no way korea sucks..... you really wanna fly that f86 sabre?
Ill have you know my grandfather fought hard there show some respect jeez
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Well i guess we can only hope it becomes more then the ghost town the ww1 arena in airwarrior was. Figured they would have made a bold move to unchartered teritory, but i guess ww1 is a saftey pillow for development.
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no way korea sucks..... you really wanna fly that f86 sabre?
Typical.
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While the thought of flying jets in gun combat sounded cool at first, after trying it out the speeds are just too fast. The separation between the jets increases very quickly and it's hard to pull sharp turns because of G limiting and the speed. Maybe I just didn't fly right, but that's my impression so far.
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Not just jets. They had the B-29 (ook! ook!) as well as the F8F, F7F, Sea Fury, F-82's and helo's too.
Also a whole slew of late/post war Soviet stuff.
http://www.korean-war.com/KWAircraft/index.html
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Boring because the F86 and Mig 15 would dominate all, every other plane would be just cannon (or 50 cal) fodder.
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Not just jets. They had the B-29 (ook! ook!) as well as the F8F, F7F, Sea Fury, F-82's and helo's too.
Also a whole slew of late/post war Soviet stuff.
http://www.korean-war.com/KWAircraft/index.html
All dominated by the F-86 and MiG-15.
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Then how about only F86 and MIG15??
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"All dominated by the F-86 and MiG-15."
True. Every era has it's top predators. Fortunately HTC and most of the other
companies didn't make two plane WWII sim/games. Would kind of suck flying
just Meteors and ME-262s or P-47Ms and TA-152's
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"All dominated by the F-86 and MiG-15."
True. Every era has it's top predators. Fortunately HTC and most of the other
companies didn't make two plane WWII sim/games. Would kind of suck flying
just Meteors and ME-262s or P-47Ms and TA-152's
Doesn't work as a comparison because the 15 and 86 were the primary combatants. .
It's like the 109K4 and Spit XIV fought most of WW2 and the rest of the plane set consisted of Gladiators and He 51s.
Yea, you could perk the 86 and 15 to hell, but then it's not a Korea sim. But if you enjoy an arena where only two planes are competitive and everything else is target practice....go for it
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Air Warrior had a WWI arena and a Korean War arena. Neither was used much.
For me, the problem with WWI is that your forward-up view (what you need most in turning combat) is blocked by the wing. So you spend a lot of time maneuvering while unable to see your target.
The problem with Korea is the speed of the jets. As mentioned above, a 360-degree turn at 500 mph takes a long time, and your target is typically about 1000+ yards away. So, you spend your time (by WWII fighting standards) in glacial dogfights squinting at a 1000-yard-away dot on your screen.
I think that WWII aircraft are the optimum for dogfighting enjoyment.
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The problem with Korea is the speed of the jets. As mentioned above, a 360-degree turn at 500 mph takes a long time, and your target is typically about 1000+ yards away. So, you spend your time (by WWII fighting standards) in glacial dogfights squinting at a 1000-yard-away dot on your screen.
Sounds a lot like the MA now...chasing p51's, tempests, and 190's around.
So WW1 is tooooo slow whahhwhahha and korea is too fasssst whahhhhh whahhhhh. Get real people.
Those who put down botht he WW1 and Korea planes just don't know that much about HOW the planes fought each other.
Why did the take the guns out the fantom fighters then find they had to put them back in.....answer is the counter to missils is to get inside the range so a missle cant get you then manuever to guns range...simple.
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While the thought of flying jets in gun combat sounded cool at first, after trying it out the speeds are just too fast. The separation between the jets increases very quickly and it's hard to pull sharp turns because of G limiting and the speed. Maybe I just didn't fly right, but that's my impression so far.
Good observation. It took A LOT of practice in AW's Korean arena to be able to get on the six of an enema who was actually trying to avoid you. As with the AW WWI arena, there was a cadre of people who were very good at it. Quite a challenge, should be fun to have a Korean arena some day.
- oldman
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Sounds a lot like the MA now...chasing p51's, tempests, and 190's around.
So WW1 is tooooo slow whahhwhahha and korea is too fasssst whahhhhh whahhhhh. Get real people.
Those who put down botht he WW1 and Korea planes just don't know that much about HOW the planes fought each other.
My opinion is that it is not at all like fighting in P-51's, Tempests, or 190D-9's in our Main Arena. It's like Me 262 vs. Me 262 combat, only with more speed retained.
Just telling you how it was in Air Warrior, which had both of those arenas.
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Perhaps Gabriel. Most of the air-to-air combat in Korea involved Mig15
and 86's. Perhaps with a Korea venue they could start with 1950?
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_307.shtml
But the point was there was a lot more used in Korea than just those two.
In a melee fantasy arena like exists in AH now (except AvA) where
anything flies against anything else the majority of players would try
just the jets. But a LOT of players don't follow the herd and they will fly
F9Fs or Yak-17s as well as all of the other aircraft that could be modeled.
Same with WWI. The planes that came out in late '18 dominate those from
the years leading up to them. Regardless though there will be plenty of
players who would jump into an Eindecker for example simply for the
challenge and the thrill of it. Same as they always have.
Brooke brought up a very good point - the view. It was horrible trying to
look around when your head is mounted on a stick and you had no extra
movement available. IMO both the HTC view system and TrackIR type
of devices make "flying" WWI aircraft in an online world now very feasible
and about as realistic as you can get until the 3d glasses Vulcan refers
to (in another other topic) come down from the stratosphere in price!
Still. HEre is an example of a WWI game/sim using trackir. It's "Knights
of the Sky" using trackIR. SKip ion about 30 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXZ-N5HNJDE
WWI (and Korea) would be fun for those who like more than just the
WWII era of air combat. There are a lot of us out there. :)
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It took A LOT of practice to be able to get on the six of an enema
No amount of practice or money could convince me to get on the six of an enema. :bolt:
:devil
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Agent, it's not the chase that's the problem, it's trying to dogfight at 400 mph. Brooke's right on the money in that it would be like 262 vs 262. The gunnery problem is much harder to solve at higher speeds. The closure is much higher, the line of sight rates are much higher, the turn rates are on average slower because of such high speeds, and with KW era thrust-to-weight ratios, planes maintain maneuvering ability much better so it's harder to energy fight. When you do finally saddle up, you have a much shorter window of opportunity because of the aforementioned thrust-weight ratio. Either your opponent will outrun you or they will gain enough smash to maneuver and force some turns. That's probably a big reason why they introduced missiles in the first place which is what you alluded to. But missiles only came into their own with Vietnam, NOT Korea.
Of course with enough practice, I'm sure you'd get used to fighting with Korean War era planes. Still, it'd probably be a bigger learning curve than jumping from WWII to WWI.
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I wouldn't say preferred, but I certainly would like to be able to fly the Sabre some day :)
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Well maybe they will have a Jet jock arena next year.
I can hardley see cons at 800yrds. Can you imagine trying to merge at mach +2 you cant even see whats going on.
Id have to go to the office and set up my HI def projector and play on the wall at work just to see anything.
I just dont see it happening. Maybe i just dont understand how it would work.
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Jets would be wierd.
p.s
:banana: :banana: :banana:
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Jets would be wierd.
p.s
:banana: :banana: :banana:
dont we already have 3 jets?
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dont we already have 3 jets?
Nope, only 2 jets.
The other one you're thinking about is a rocket plane. :D
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AFIK, guided missiles were first used in combat during the Indo/Pakistani war, late 50s...
Sidewinders used by the Packi's, were captured by India, given to the Soviets, who reverse engineered the ATOLL.
Unless somebody has heard of useage before that...
Just a little trivia...
RC
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I was talking to Roscoroo at dinner, and he felt that the forward-up view in WWI planes in Dawn of Aces was OK.
So, my thoughts about what it would be like based on Air Warrior's WWI arena might be off base.
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[snip]....
I think that WWII aircraft are the optimum for dogfighting enjoyment.
Amen!
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Why don't we ask Aces High not to bother!!!!! N
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Korea? I know Britain was involved in Korea but it is rarley talk about here.
Did Britain have jets in Korea?
Heliocopters?
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...I think that WWII aircraft are the optimum for dogfighting enjoyment.
Have to agree. Plus, all the other types of air combat that matured during WWII - paratroop attacks, strategic bombardment, effective air to ground support and naval aviation make a WWII environment more interesting and enjoyable sim for me. Some of these maybe have been first employed in WWI, but really became effective in WWII with the types of planes, armaments, and communication advances introduced.
Will the WWI arena support radio communication?
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No we will be using flags to communicate
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Pretty sure his point is that radios were too large and heavy to equip ww1 fighter aircraft. Pilots communicated with hand signals and aircraft movement.
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Look at it this way instead of whining about it. It might draw people from other WWI games that suck when it comes to their multiplayer aspect... that would go for the single player from what I have heard. On the plus side it could bring in some new blood and living things up.
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This is a game and we will still be using vox :x
I will be wearing goggle's and a flying hat and shouting contact when I fly a bi plane :salute
The Few is the best squad in the game because it is a European squad!
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Looks like I need to go back to the Korean War musuem to make sure I wasnt drunk when I saw about 50 different aircraft that all were apart of the war...Dogfights from the korean war were supposedly pretty brutal over mig alley and by comparing the 262 to the aircraft in the korean war is just wrong. Both the Mig and Sabre didnt have huge engines on their wings to cause drag and made it harder to turn. The fights in the war were probably pretty similar...well they got to be since they still fight the same way today in modern fighter jets. Heres a F15 and F16 merge then go into rolling scissors...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=466_1240521772
:salute Yenny for the good video of this
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"Korea? I know Britain was involved in Korea but it is rarley talk about here."
True but the "UN" contribution in the air war was a fraction of the US and
USSR action. Backtracking to the link in my last post go to:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/cat_index_20.shtml
On that web page there are 4 pages totalling US victories, 2 pages of Soviet
and 1 each ore the Chinese and the rest of the UN combined. Here's the link
to the UN aircombat kills:
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_306.shtml
heheheheh Zack. For more immersion get a big fan, put it on high and have it
blow in your face too :)
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Hurrah and Tally ho!
What a good idea :x
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+1 for Korea :aok
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AFIK, guided missiles were first used in combat during the Indo/Pakistani war, late 50s...
Sidewinders used by the Packi's, were captured by India, given to the Soviets, who reverse engineered the ATOLL.
Unless somebody has heard of useage before that...
Just a little trivia...
RC
Provide a link?
Not a pro soviet or anti american myself, but I believe this common belief that everything they had was reverse engineered from the Americans is somewhat stupid. Did they put Gagarin into space first by doing that also? It would be crazy to think that they had intercontinental ballistic missiles before the US, and yet had to reverse engineer a A2A missile?
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Provide a link?
Not a pro soviet or anti american myself, but I believe this common belief that everything they had was reverse engineered from the Americans is somewhat stupid. Did they put Gagarin into space first by doing that also? It would be crazy to think that they had intercontinental ballistic missiles before the US, and yet had to reverse engineer a A2A missile?
Well, there's no doubt that they mimicked American bomber aircraft design, which helps to spread the belief that imitation was universal for all of their engineering.
FYI, the Soviets were also the first (and only?) nation to land unmanned spacecraft on Venus.
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The K-13 "'Atoll' was developed by reverse-engineering the US AIM-9 Sidewinder
According to the account it was acquired after a Taiwanese F-86 Sabre fired it at
a Chinese MiG-17. It didn't exploded and the missile remained stuck in the MiG
and carried back to its base.
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Much harder to get a balanced planeset in Korea where one side does not dominate the other.
WWI is much easier to do in that regard at least in my opinion.
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Well, there's no doubt that they mimicked American bomber aircraft design, which helps to spread the belief that imitation was universal for all of their engineering.
FYI, the Soviets were also the first (and only?) nation to land unmanned spacecraft on Venus.
Bah, we have one heading for Uranus :bolt:
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Much harder to get a balanced planeset in Korea where one side does not dominate the other.
WWI is much easier to do in that regard at least in my opinion.
i hope this game doesn't live with everything must be blue on blue, spits everywere! I would like to go down a different path.
Is the WW1 arena going to be blue on blue? i hope not
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i hope this game doesn't live with everything must be blue on blue, spits everywere! I would like to go down a different path.
It did not have to be that way, but that is what the masses wanted and that's where the revenue comes from.
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Is the WW1 arena going to be blue on blue? i hope not
Presumably
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by comparing the 262 to the aircraft in the korean war is just wrong. Both the Mig and Sabre didnt have huge engines on their wings to cause drag and made it harder to turn.
The 262 is fairly similar to the Korean War jets. The 262 has performance figures somewhat less, but in the same ballpark. At higher speeds, turn rate and radius are determined only by the speed you are travelling and your g limit. At lower speeds (below g limit), a lot of factors come into play, such as: http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/aces_high/stallSpeedMath/turningMath.html (http://electraforge.com/brooke/flightsims/aces_high/stallSpeedMath/turningMath.html) Anyway, the parasitic drag for the 262 is, I would bet, quite low.
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I flew both a WWI and a Korean scenario in AW. It's just not the same as WWII A/C. Either to slow or to fast.
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I flew both a WWI and a Korean scenario in AW. It's just not the same as WWII A/C. Either to slow or to fast.
If they do WWI here like they did in DOA, it'll be nothing like AW...FM & DM wise anyways.
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One of the bigger reason it was so boring, besides there only being two aircraft and
the given the state of devleopment was the terrain and aircraft graphics.
Nothing short of a heroin injection is going to make flying with this around a void
at 60mph very exciting.
(http://www.rolandandcaroline.co.uk/assets/images/aw2cockipt1.jpg)
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I don't know Westy acid should have an enhancing effect on it. :x