Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: GFShill on October 22, 2009, 06:27:13 AM
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Took one out for a spin last night to set up the views and play with custom sounds. Got a couple of kills; seems to handle at mid-speed and low-speed pretty well. Definitely something to explore further!
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....."these Are NOT! ...the 'Droids you are looking for"
....Old Ben Kanobi
Helm ....out
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Monster.
F4U4 with 8 .50's.
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My wet dream come true.
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slow climber compared with rest of the late birds. nice zoom and speed
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Awesome...or maybe I was just running into bad pilots ;)
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Monster.
F4U4 with 8 .50's.
I don't like exaggerations.
The P-47M does NOT make 375mph OTD in WEP.
The F4U-4 goes about 350 OTD without WEP. The P-47M goes about 338.
The P-47M does NOT climb at close to 4,000 fpm.
The P-47M does NOT out-turn Spitfires.
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I don't like exaggerations.
The P-47M does NOT make 375mph OTD in WEP.
The F4U-4 goes about 350 OTD without WEP. The P-47M goes about 338.
The P-47M does NOT climb at close to 4,000 fpm.
The P-47M does NOT out-turn Spitfires.
+10... no perk value, its just a fast jug. You guys must be running into knobs. I've fought Killnu 38 Vs Jug a couple weeks back, he had a much better chance winning the fight in any other jug but the N.
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Best unperked plane in the game.(maybe with the exception of the k4)
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368 mph OTD with WEP with 1/2 tank.
It climbs better then the "N" and turns better. It feels like it accelerates better. Before the M I never dreamed of upping a P-47 for base defense. Now? As long as its lightly loaded? I feel like you have that option now.
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Base under NOE attack? M-Jug with 25% fuel, is like flying a buzz saw through the skies of 110s! I love it!
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Like someone has said when it first came out, It will be the new dominate American fighter.
It's fast, it's tough, it's got great guns, it has a great climb rate, it can out dive anything, and it can turn with the best of them.
slow climber compared with rest of the late birds. nice zoom and speed
3k a minute is slow?
The P-47M does NOT out-turn Spitfires.
I strongfully disagree. Unless you are talking about the continuous circles, but only "knobs" do that.
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It can turn with what?
Its a great picker, as is the d9. Please spare me with thinking its some superplane, it isnt. I guess to figure out how it does OTD in a furball, you would have to be in that position for starters.
p51 eats it alive
p38 just needs to get it below 225 mph before it gets spanked
other jugs have the ability to go vert under 150mph, p47M, does not.
spitfires? not worth comparison
n1k/ki84 ect.. easily outturn.
k4 and any other 109s.. see spitfires.
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Radial Runstang.
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F4U4 with 8 .50's.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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It can turn with what?
Its a great picker, as is the d9. Please spare me with thinking its some superplane, it isnt. I guess to figure out how it does OTD in a furball, you would have to be in that position for starters.
p51 eats it alive
p38 just needs to get it below 225 mph before it gets spanked
other jugs have the ability to go vert under 150mph, p47M, does not.
spitfires? not worth comparison
n1k/ki84 ect.. easily outturn.
k4 and any other 109s.. see spitfires.
I agree with Lazer, I find it can be a little unstable at slow speeds of the deck. I just like the prudy paint.
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It can turn with what?
Its a great picker, as is the d9. Please spare me with thinking its some superplane, it isnt. I guess to figure out how it does OTD in a furball, you would have to be in that position for starters.
p51 eats it alive
p38 just needs to get it below 225 mph before it gets spanked
other jugs have the ability to go vert under 150mph, p47M, does not.
spitfires? not worth comparison
n1k/ki84 ect.. easily outturn.
k4 and any other 109s.. see spitfires.
No, the only plane like that is the spit16. You are right, it sucks, don't bother with it :noid
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No, the only plane like that is the spit16. You are right, it sucks, don't bother with it :noid
It will be flown like a 190d9, p51d, or any other fast 1 pass haul bellybutton planes... If I was in a spit16 and you came and tried to kill me in a p47M I would eat you for lunch.
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I just took one up in the T/A. A 1/4'th tank gives you about 28+ mins duration and the light ammo load? Well after 20 1 second bursts I quit counting and still had about 600 rounds left. Thats a 1 sec burst of 8 0.50s, enough to smoke any fighter in the game. And thats the light ammo load.
It auto-climbs at 130 mph. Get the 47-M to about 300 mph after take off using wep, set auto climb to 130 mph, and then see how fast you get to 10k. Not like any Jug I ever flew. From there I dove, going over 550 mph, then climbing out setting auto-climb again. Right back to 10k. Amazing. Nothing broke off and I never lost control. I didnt even need the dive brakes. At 7k without wep I held a steady 355 mph, "392 with wep". At 1k it was 371 with wep. I dont know what all this means cause Ive only killed a few planes in it but the P-47M does seem pretty impressive.
I dont know why anyone would even consider getting slow in one.
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p51 eats it alive
Seems like a dumb question, but as I don't fly American iron very often I still dare to ask it: Why?
Performance charts tell me: 51 is slightly faster up to ~14k, considerable slower above that. In climb rate the 47M beats the 51D. I haven't measured turn rate & radius yet, but assuming it's between a D-40 and 47B, it should have a slightly better turn radius than a 51 at full flaps, slightly larger one without flaps.
So what is that decisive advantage the 51D has to justify such a strong claim?
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Seems like a dumb question, but as I don't fly American iron very often I still dare to ask it: Why?
Performance charts tell me: 51 is slightly faster up to ~14k, considerable slower above that. In climb rate the 47M beats the 51D. I haven't measured turn rate & radius yet, but assuming it's between a D-40 and 47B, it should have a slightly better turn radius than a 51 at full flaps, slightly larger one without flaps.
So what is that decisive advantage the 51D has to justify such a strong claim?
He is just frustrated because he gets shot down by them. Let him vent, we have all been there. :cheers:
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lol.. I dont currently play the game. I've going based of ten years of playing the game, and having a pretty good grasp on what plane does what.
I dont think ive looked at a chart in ten years.
Look up my stats for Devour and a p47M.. i had 30 some odd kills and maybe 1 death... im not saying the plane sucks, but I knew how I had to fly it within a couple sorties. Maybe you should take the advice for what its worth, and as soon as Im back I can teach you a couple things about well.. any plane in the set
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try this... go get into a turnfight at 150mph on sortie with a p51, and do the same the following sortie with a p47M.
At any point below 150mph, try pulling the nose up on the both and let me know what your results are.. If your going to use your "turn radius" and try and flat turn me on the deck, im going to mop the arena with you.
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I don't get into the whole specific stat thing, as far as MPH and how big/small the turn radius is. I will say after flying it, and I normally fly the D25, at slow speeds the M does not handle the greatest. I like flying jugs in knife fights, do it quite often. M will not be my choice to do that in, I will stick with my D25, as it seems more stable for the typical knife fight.
M is a great plane, just don't see it being too much different from the N in a fight. I love the plane, just nothing to get excited about..
Just my 2 cents, which isn't worth crap in today's economy. :)
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Someone asks for an argument, and all he gets is a lecture about how awesome the guy is. :lol
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I don't like exaggerations.
The P-47M does NOT make 375mph OTD in WEP.
The F4U-4 goes about 350 OTD without WEP. The P-47M goes about 338.
The P-47M does NOT climb at close to 4,000 fpm.
The P-47M does NOT out-turn Spitfires.
I love exagerations and blanket statements for shock value. Thats why I make them.
In an M-Jug, I bested a Spit 8, OTD, starting at a complete disadvantage, in about 30 seconds.
If I listed who the stick was, you'd be shocked. The 47M is an outstanding aircraft and perfectly capable of handling itself in almost any situation. Take it up with a light fuel load, six guns and 267 RPG and be amazed.
I love it... but it almost seems unfair.
In all seriousness - my comparison to the F4U4 is based on what I believe to be the Corsair's primary strength - its zoom climb. If I have the flaps out in a U4, Im in trouble. To that end, both the U4 and the M have the ability to recover altitude after a dive with almost zero loss in initial E.
For someone like me, who prefers to fight in the vert and counts on ropes, more often than not, due to poor (read: non-existent) gunnery skills, thats huge.
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Someone asks for an argument, and all he gets is a lecture about how awesome the guy is. :lol
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z313/Renee_237/inconceivable.jpg)
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I have never used any P-47 except in missions some one else put together until the 47M. It is great in a dive I ran down a 262 in one the other day from a 4k alt advantage. I like the 47M wtg HTC.
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, im going to mop the arena with you.
That's cause you're a superhero! The spandex and cape give you away :devil :cheers:
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That's cause you're a superhero! The spandex and cape give you away :devil :cheers:
Thought you were collecting your AH pension in the nursing home? :D
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Thought you were collecting your AH pension in the nursing home? :D
There's a pension? :huh
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My only comment is that Lazerr's awesomeness is indisputable.
If only we could all be him.
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My only comment is that Lazerr's awesomeness is indisputable.
I beg to differ... lazer, pfft! ;)
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50% fuel, 6 gun package and it flies very well slow. Lazer, when I fought you in it, was at 75% fuel and big ammo load....the extra wieght makes a big difference. I have been playing with ammo load outs and fuel load out in it quite a bit. Flies a lot like the D40 to me...little faster, better acceleration maybe...I normally dont fly D40 with 50% and 6 guns tho either.
It is a very capable fighter. I do agree most will (and already do) fly it like a dora/pony and bnz pick in it. It is a shame to see that when it is capable of so much more.
I know I have bested several spits (8/9/16) in it lower and slower than they were...dominate bird.
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I get about same rate of success as N...just doesnt take as long, no matter the outcome :confused:
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The P-47M is a monster....
Anyone that is having trouble with low speed handling needs to practice some more. I can whip that thing a 180 degrees, or any angle (roll) using a little back elev, little aileron and a lot of rudder.
New favorite ride!
Strip
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I don't like exaggerations.
The P-47M does NOT make 375mph OTD in WEP.
The F4U-4 goes about 350 OTD without WEP. The P-47M goes about 338.
The P-47M does NOT climb at close to 4,000 fpm.
The P-47M does NOT out-turn Spitfires.
How about some actual test data?
Climb to 10k from dead stop on runway, in minutes, seconds and hundredths of seconds. 25% fuel, 6 guns with 267 rounds for P-47s.
P-51D: 3:14.47
P-47D-40: 3:00.88
P-47M: 2:50.56
F4U-4: 2:48.44
Nearly a dead heat between the F4U-4 and P-47M.
Speed at Sea Level
F4U-4: 375 mph
P-47M: 368 mph
P-51D: 367 mph
Advantage F4U-4. Nonetheless, all are damn fast on the deck.
Speed at 5k
P-51D: 387 mph
P-47M: 385 mph
F4U-4: 380 mph
Advantage P-51D, with the M breathing down its neck. The F4U-4 falls behind at this altitude.
Speed at 10k
P-51D: 407 mph
P-47M: 402 mph
F4U-4: 398 mph
Again, advantage P-51D, with the M 5 mph slower and the F4U-4 falling behind again.
Speed at 15k
F4U-4: 420 mph
P-47M: 419 mph
P-51D: 410 mph
Another virtual dead heat between the M and the F4U-4. The P-51D suffers from falling MAP until 17k, where the supercharger changes gears.
Turn Radius at 500 ft ASL, clean (no flaps).
F4U-4: 691 ft
P-51D: 777 ft
P-47M: 779 ft
Advantage F4U-4. The P-51D and P-47M are too close to make any difference. Both the M and the P-51D can drop a notch of flaps at high speed, tightening up their turn. The F4U-4 cannot drop any flaps until much slower.
Turn Radius at 500 ft ASL, full flaps.
F4U-4: 428 ft
P-47M: 579 ft
P-51D: 633 ft
The F4U-4's "wonder flaps" make the big difference here. The P-47M out-turns the Mustang without any drama.
As you can see, the P-47M is very competitive with the F4U-4 and P-51D. However, being a high altitude fighter, 15k and below is not its element, which only amplifies its performance in this comparison. Only in a low-speed, flaps out furball does the F4U-4 show any marked superiority. Above 25k, the P-47M is superior to every prop fighter in the game.
My regards,
Widewing
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Why test with the smallest gun package allowed? Did you test all of the aircraft with 25% fuel, or just the 47M?
HTC's own chart for climbrate seems to better represent the typical combat loadouts for these aircraft:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=54&p2=102&pw=1>ype=2)
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lol.. im just going by experience I guess, yeah KU i believe it could have been lighter.. I could have been too :D
Im just saying it sucks down low, I guess thats where im used to hangin out, I dont really pay much attention to anything above 10k, Ill stand by that point. I guess if it zooms around at 15k with a f4u4 and p51 so be it. Its pretty easy to dodge any plane when it makes lazy passed, but the f4u4 and 51 scare me, because they can slow down at any point and dominate just about anything. P47m cant, its a dog, i guess is my point. ;)
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But the real edge is the choice of an extra 25% in firepower.
Yesterday I snap shot the tail off of a Corsair with the 8 0.50s and I dont ever remember doing so with 6. And with the barest touch to the trigger too. Thats about 106+ rounds per second compared to 80 rps with 6, or 53 rps on the P-51B or Brewster, FM2...ect Plenty powerful to kill any airplane in the game.
So far this tour the P-47M is posting a 1.46, "equal to the D11. The D25 a 1.11. The P-51D a 1.07. And this is without carrying "any" ords.
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Widewings post almost makes the plane seem perk worthy.
Not suggesting that of course. But those numbers are pretty great.
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So far this tour the P-47M is posting a 1.46, "equal to the D11. The D25 a 1.11. The P-51D a 1.07. And this is without carrying "any" ords.
And how many heavy D-11s do we see?
FYI, the P-38J and Ta-152 (1.64 and 1.65) once again have the highest unperked K/D ratios this tour, and that's with over 8000 kills+deaths for the P-38J. :headscratch:
The K/D ratios of the P-47D-40 and P-47N have dropped lower than I've ever seen them before, both <.7. What we're seeing are the effects of people who almost always fly a fighter light, vs the fighters that are flown as bomb trucks, e.g. F4U-1A is above 1.3. In the main arena, the P-51D might the most popular bomb truck of all.
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I guess I dont really care to compare my lightning stats with the guy that is doing NOE attacks on a CV... :rolleyes:
Either way, all your jug can do is climb better and run faster than my 38. Anything after that is an express trip to the tower for the p47 pilot. Not perk worthy. ;)
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It is a given that what makes the F4U-4 "special" is tremendous performance *COMBINED* with tremendous maneuverability. Several planes match the raw speed, and more than several planes match the turning ability, but not in one package. There is no getting around the fact that the F4U-4 owns either plane as anything except a race car.
Your climb figures are interesting, because the HTC charts show a noticeable advantage for the -4 in WEP climb all the way to 20K. I suspect the difference is the 47 carrying much more fuel in those tests.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=54&p2=102&pw=2>ype=2)
As for the P-47M out-turning the Pony...we both know that, it follows from the performance of other Jugs relative the Pony. But we both know it ain't quite right either.
Tremendous disadvantage for the 47 vs. both types is that all this extraordinary performance can only be used for five minutes at a time. After the WEP is gone at low alts, the 47M's performance simply ain't impressive in LW at typical MA alts. At 10K the P-51 meeting a P-47, both cruising around at MIL, will be over 30mph faster!
25K performance is almost completely irrelevant for MA purposes, and 15K is above most of the action.
All in all, the 47M is not even the best unperked plane IMO, much less a near-equal of the 4-Hog.
How about some actual test data?
Climb to 10k from dead stop on runway, in minutes, seconds and hundredths of seconds. 25% fuel, 6 guns with 267 rounds for P-47s.
P-51D: 3:14.47
P-47D-40: 3:00.88
P-47M: 2:50.56
F4U-4: 2:48.44
Nearly a dead heat between the F4U-4 and P-47M.
Speed at Sea Level
F4U-4: 375 mph
P-47M: 368 mph
P-51D: 367 mph
Advantage F4U-4. Nonetheless, all are damn fast on the deck.
Speed at 5k
P-51D: 387 mph
P-47M: 385 mph
F4U-4: 380 mph
Advantage P-51D, with the M breathing down its neck. The F4U-4 falls behind at this altitude.
Speed at 10k
P-51D: 407 mph
P-47M: 402 mph
F4U-4: 398 mph
Again, advantage P-51D, with the M 5 mph slower and the F4U-4 falling behind again.
Speed at 15k
F4U-4: 420 mph
P-47M: 419 mph
P-51D: 410 mph
Another virtual dead heat between the M and the F4U-4. The P-51D suffers from falling MAP until 17k, where the supercharger changes gears.
Turn Radius at 500 ft ASL, clean (no flaps).
F4U-4: 691 ft
P-51D: 777 ft
P-47M: 779 ft
Advantage F4U-4. The P-51D and P-47M are too close to make any difference. Both the M and the P-51D can drop a notch of flaps at high speed, tightening up their turn. The F4U-4 cannot drop any flaps until much slower.
Turn Radius at 500 ft ASL, full flaps.
F4U-4: 428 ft
P-47M: 579 ft
P-51D: 633 ft
The F4U-4's "wonder flaps" make the big difference here. The P-47M out-turns the Mustang without any drama.
As you can see, the P-47M is very competitive with the F4U-4 and P-51D. However, being a high altitude fighter, 15k and below is not its element, which only amplifies its performance in this comparison. Only in a low-speed, flaps out furball does the F4U-4 show any marked superiority. Above 25k, the P-47M is superior to every prop fighter in the game.
My regards,
Widewing
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Either way, all your jug can do is climb better and run faster than my 38. Anything after that is an express trip to the tower for the p47 pilot. Not perk worthy. ;)
Actually the climb breakdown looks like this:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/newscores/genchart.php?p1=18&p2=102&pw=2>ype=2)
So at anything resembling typical MA alts, advantage P-38. That is just raw climb figures of course, not even taking into account the torque-less advantage in the vertical.
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I think Lazerr should fly a few Jugs before making silly statements.
He sounds like I usually sound. But when I do it, it's usually on purpose to generate a few angry replies.
Maybe that's what he is doing...........
Certainly couldn't be anything else.
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I think Lazerr should fly a few Jugs before making silly statements.
He sounds like I usually sound. But when I do it, it's usually on purpose to generate a few angry replies.
Maybe that's what he is doing...........
Certainly couldn't be anything else.
Not sure who you are... fail.
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I'm your father silly little kid.
Go ask the M word.
(Is that PC?)
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I finally understand why the P-47M was needed in AH...
...Some of your egos just might fit inside it.
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Not sure who you are... fail.
Epic Fail.
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:salute
Epic Fail.
Yeah! What he said!
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Lazer,
I have beaten several 38s with the M. You are a rather good 38 stick and I forgot just how the bird can fly when in certain hands. I wouldnt mind doing that all over again...now that I have some time in the M....remember, you have been flying 38 for a while longer. It may not be any different...but I know that the 38 itself is not untouchable by an M...the pilot element plays a big part....of course you know that.
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Why test with the smallest gun package allowed? Did you test all of the aircraft with 25% fuel, or just the 47M?
HTC's own chart for climbrate seems to better represent the typical combat loadouts for these aircraft:
25% fuel was used for my test on all aircraft.
HTC performance figures reflect normal internal fuel; IE: Full tanks.
My regards,
Widewing
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25% fuel was used for my test on all aircraft.
HTC performance figures reflect normal internal fuel; IE: Full tanks.
My regards,
Widewing
Ok, thanks for the clarification.
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And how many heavy D-11s do we see?
I wasnt just talking about D11s. I was also talking about Mustangs, see below.
FYI, the P-38J and Ta-152 (1.64 and 1.65) once again have the highest unperked K/D ratios this tour, and that's with over 8000 kills+deaths for the P-38J. :headscratch:
TA-152 shouldnt count. Very few fly it and the ones who do are often very good in it. It isnt, and never will be, a fighter for the masses.
BELOW
The K/D ratios of the P-47D-40 and P-47N have dropped lower than I've ever seen them before, both <.7. What we're seeing are the effects of people who almost always fly a fighter light, vs the fighters that are flown as bomb trucks, e.g. F4U-1A is above 1.3. In the main arena, the P-51D might the most popular bomb truck of all.
Naw. It aint. About all I ever see Mustang do is come into a base, vulch the runway, and then speed away at warp-10. They might fire rockets but for the most part thats about it. I'd say the P-38L is far more popular and then Hellcats/Corsairs.
I dont count the "M" as uber. I just think its very good and a nice addition. A good stick anywheres near co-Alt, most of all in a P-38 or 109,190,, Spit...ect, is going to try and get you in a climb/turn dual. I think it does better then the other Jugs but its still a Jug.
I'll pass on the cartoon airplane wars. My real life is far to serious to take my cartoon life that seriously. :salute
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Lazer,
I have beaten several 38s with the M. You are a rather good 38 stick and I forgot just how the bird can fly when in certain hands. I wouldnt mind doing that all over again...now that I have some time in the M....remember, you have been flying 38 for a while longer. It may not be any different...but I know that the 38 itself is not untouchable by an M...the pilot element plays a big part....of course you know that.
Your right, but your an above average cartoon pilot yourself. I dont think many playing right now would push both planes much harder. Maybe some of the oldschool guys that have been here awhile. The new breed has yet to push the limits of even the la7.
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:salute
Yeah! What he said!
Epic Fail.
I finally understand why the P-47M was needed in AH...
...Some of your egos just might fit inside it.
Not sure if any of you three understand the game. Its okay, it'll come with time. ;)
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Dont fly the P47M much, perhaps 1 sortie i think. I have engauged quite a few over the last 2 -3 weeks. I fly mostly 51's and Spits, truly amazed at the M's ability to get a shot on me.. :joystick:
I've done some MAJOR stick moves to get out that way of diving M's, they usually get a hit everytime. Just my opinion of what I've seen. :airplane:
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Not sure if any of you three understand the game. Its okay, it'll come with time. ;)
You mean the forum game where vainglory and reputation stand in for thought? I'm all too familiar with it. :P
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The M is a good plane. Everyone agrees on that. What everyone doesn't agree on is: where its good at. and how good is it.. really?
Just like all planes, you're going to have a few people that do very well in it otd; like Laz and KillnU pointed out before, pilot skill is a BIG factor. You put a guy otd like Nomde that has flown jugs for as long as he has, he's probably going to do a lot better than most of us that are just learning the plane, regardless of which model it is.
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lol.. im just going by experience I guess, yeah KU i believe it could have been lighter.. I could have been too :D
Im just saying it sucks down low, I guess thats where im used to hangin out, I dont really pay much attention to anything above 10k, Ill stand by that point. I guess if it zooms around at 15k with a f4u4 and p51 so be it. Its pretty easy to dodge any plane when it makes lazy passed, but the f4u4 and 51 scare me, because they can slow down at any point and dominate just about anything. P47m cant, its a dog, i guess is my point. ;)
Did you know that a 25% fuel P-47M beats a 25% fuel P-38J/L to 10k from a standing start? Did you know that the M has a smaller turn radius, both clean and with full flaps? Did you know that the P-47M accelerates from 150 mph to 250 mph faster than the P-38J/L?
I wouldn't classify the P-47M as a dog... On the contrary, it is quite the beastie.
My regards,
Widewing
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In the hands of someone who's spent the time to learn it and fly it to its strengths. Its a dangerous adversary.
In the hands of most people. Its just another target. :aok
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Unless the 47M has 8K on me, it's dead 99% of the time.
Another big fat aluminum target.
<shrug>
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Did you know that a 25% fuel P-47M beats a 25% fuel P-38J/L to 10k from a standing start? Did you know that the M has a smaller turn radius, both clean and with full flaps? Did you know that the P-47M accelerates from 150 mph to 250 mph faster than the P-38J/L?
I wouldn't classify the P-47M as a dog... On the contrary, it is quite the beastie.
My regards,
Widewing
I just dont see myself losing to it, with 25% and 6 guns, or 75% and 8 guns. Id love to test the theory, I enjoy experimenting. p47m has lack of anything in the vert.. reminds me of a p39. I guess if that doesnt work, torque can be used against it too. :D
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Unless the 47M has 8K on me, it's dead 99% of the time.
Another big fat aluminum target.
<shrug>
or......
unless I'm in it. :aok
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Not sure if any of you three understand the game. Its okay, it'll come with time. ;)
I was commenting on the fact that instead of replying to his post you simply dismissed it because you didn't "know" him...which pretty much makes you a tool, and as previously stated, an epic failure.
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Well, I only flew it twice, and mostly shot down other jugs, but I am with widewing, feels awfully perky.
And just so sexy.
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N handles tons better at lower speeds....M has nasty stall that reminds me of mossie...feels like arse is heavier than nose
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Ran into another one today, about 15,000ft. I was in a -4 slightly below but had a TON of E (I was making a shallow dive to close on an unidentified dot when a squad mate spotted him at the cloud layer). He HO'ed my squaddie, and as he blew past overheard I went vertical and pulled behind him with an immelmann, ending about 600 yards out. If I pressed the attack I'd have had him easily, but there were a pair of high P-51s prowling the area so I kept my altitude and let him go to deal with the bigger threat.
So far I've not seen anything to really fear from the M. As others have said, it's still a Jug.
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I was commenting on the fact that instead of replying to his post you simply dismissed it because you didn't "know" him...which pretty much makes you a tool, and as previously stated, an epic failure.
If it was anyone that had a clue, id probably know. ;)
Guess I dont see the need to converse with someone about something they dont have a clue on... :headscratch:
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I flew it tonight, if it gets to a slow fight.... the 109 eats it's lunch going vert....plain and simple.....
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To me it's like any other plane, it depends on the pilot.
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If it was anyone that had a clue, id probably know. ;)
Guess I dont see the need to converse with someone about something they dont have a clue on... :headscratch:
Alright, let me play your ad hominem game:
Widewing disagrees with your opinions on the P-47M. Therefore, you don't have a clue.
How did I do? :banana:
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Alright, let me play your ad hominem game:
Widewing disagrees with your opinions on the P-47M. Therefore, you don't have a clue.
How did I do? :banana:
Those charts dont tell me how big of a pig the 47M is in the vert. All widewing has done is posted numbers, they are what they are, and dont really mean much in a lowspeed fight.. again the point im trying to make. I guess if you care how fast your plane is at 15k, more power to ya. ;)
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HTC performance figures reflect normal internal fuel; IE: Full tanks.
Patently incorrect.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,273328.msg3420542.html#msg3420542 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,273328.msg3420542.html#msg3420542)
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Those charts dont tell me how big of a pig the 47M is in the vert. All widewing has done is posted numbers, they are what they are, and dont really mean much in a lowspeed fight.. again the point im trying to make. I guess if you care how fast your plane is at 15k, more power to ya. ;)
Add a fourth, maybe a third of the ability you remember a D40 having....not remotely in K4 territory, but certainly less of a hindrance than before
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Add a fourth, maybe a third of the ability you remember a D40 having....not remotely in K4 territory, but certainly less of a hindrance than before
Yup.. and once someone is able to pull above you, all the jug can do is stay low and turn, praying the following shot is a miss.
d11/d40 are the beast. :D
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Few options if on the deck...if you have alt to give up, get em to follow well into the 400's, jug tons more nimble at that speed than a lot of the planes which might be chasing you, like 38...you get one good chance to reverse them (F4 being @#%%@#%@# notable exception)
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My impressions so far vs the N:
The M feels much more floaty, the N much more linear
The N I feel is better suited for pure BnZ
The M and N are about equal in E fights as long as you are more gentle on the controls if in an M)
The M definately turns better at high speeds, but burns off E quicker because of it, almost deceptively so
I'd take up the N over the M for pure lone-wolf flying and working the edges of a horde
I'd take up the M over the N for knife fighting
If I was in a situation that I needed to cause an overshoots, I'd rather be in an N
If I was caught slow vs more than one con above 6000ft I'd prefer the N, below 6000ft I'd prefer the M
I'd rather rolling scissor in the N than M
If I was forced to stall fight, I'd rather be in the M
If I was hunting buffs, I'd much rather be in an N, it's more linear flying makes it much easier to line up those 800-1k cockpit shots or wing root shots on b24s
Survivability IMO goes to the N; the way it handles helps you conserve E much easier
For someone who wants to start flying jugs I'd tell them to start with the N, it's much better at teaching you the limitations of a jug than the M.
I'd suggest the M for folks more experienced in the 47 planeset
In the end though, they are both jugs. You have to really be conscious of your E state and keep your SA up. People tend to dive on low jugs almost as much as a 110 or similar plane for an easy kill. 47 series is a set you need to fly with some patience because once wep runs out you are in trouble if caught slow.
It feels closest to me(please be gentle SAPPers) that the M is to the 38g as the N is to the 38L.
Overall I am very, very happy with the addition of a new jug, has been my main ride for years now and I have no regrets about keeping my account active even if I stopped playing for 6+ months at a time. HTC really showed the jug pilots some love and it's muchly appreciated!
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Patently incorrect.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,273328.msg3420542.html#msg3420542 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,273328.msg3420542.html#msg3420542)
Let me clarify... Full MAIN tanks. Aux tanks are not filled, nor were they when testing the real aircraft. The fuel load is as I described it; normal load.
In the case of the P-47M, it appears that the climb chart represents empty aux tank and standard 8 guns, 267 rounds each (normal ammo load).
My regards,
Widewing
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The M wins over the N based on potential skins alone! :D
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The M wins over the N based on potential skins alone! :D
yah...nuthin like flying silver plane on green background
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yah...nuthin like flying silver plane on green background
Well, if you count out flying with a large red icon hanging on top of ya.
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Let me clarify... Full MAIN tanks. Aux tanks are not filled, nor were they when testing the real aircraft. The fuel load is as I described it; normal load.
This is not generally correct either. Checked a few planes, using AH's own weight data:
F4U1-A: Full main tanks, empty wing tanks
P-51D: Full main tanks, empty aux. tank
P-47D-40 and P-47N: Both w/full internal fuel, the latter with full ammo also
Bf109K-4: Main tank about 82% full.
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My verdict:
First time I took it up, I got 8 kills. Second time I took it up, 7 kills. Third time I took it up, 9 kills. I'm pretty good in 47s, but zero time in type, I was impressed.
I still take the N if I plan on hitting AAA from 3km out to make life easier, or hunting buffs with rockets, or just generally wanting to raise hell for an hour or so.
The M, like others if I am just purely going out for fighter sweep or running intercept and need to get up and somewhere quickly.
I have very few problems in the type unless you screw up or get jumped by someone with 10k advantage in a Spit 8 or something that can miracle itself to your ass.
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Let me clarify... Full MAIN tanks. Aux tanks are not filled, nor were they when testing the real aircraft.
So, which way is it ?
Think real hard.
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So, which way is it ?
Think real hard.
I take it being a parolee hasn't taught you any manners, has it?
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I take it being a parolee hasn't taught you any manners, has it?
Heh.
Thanks for taking the time to investigate and publish the 47M data, Widewing, I think most of us appreciate it.
- oldman
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I take it being a parolee hasn't taught you any manners, has it?
My post was rather rhetoric. As you seem to be regarded as the "WW2-aircraft-know-it-all" in this board, I was curious to know if you are a man to admit you are wrong even in this minor issue. The answer seems to be "no".
Regards from a lowly parolee.
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Well I did my own testing with 1/4 fuel and the light 8 gun load. WEP climb from standing stop to 10,000'.
P-47M-2.49 seconds. P-47D40-2.59. P-47N-3.06. P-47D25-3.10. P-47D11-3.18.
P-38J-2.48. F4U-4-2.41. Hellcat-2.58. Brewster-3.28. F4U-1-3.29. P-51D-3.06 seconds.
Others were Yak9U-2.45 seconds. Spit16-2.19. 109K4-2.19. LA7-2.35. FW190D9-2.42.
For what its worth. Obviously 1/4 tank of gas means one thing for some planes and another thing for others. Some you would never dream of loading 1/4 for. Besides climb rates change at ALT.'s, tho most action is 10k and under in the game...ect
But to put the P-47M into perspective lets look at the K/Ds of the P51D last tour, which was 54,178, and so far this tour 41,934. Total P-47 usage last tour was 22,137 K/Ds and so far this tour 49,627.
Who knows what all this means and who knows how many Pony drivers are now finding more P-47 bliss. How much is simply "new version excitement"? Well who knows at this point?
I do still think the "M" is going to bring a lot more furballers into the Jug family.
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I was in an LA-7 last night, got in bad situation and couldn't outrun the M. Now that is fast in my book.
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Well I did my own testing with 1/4 fuel and the light 8 gun load. WEP climb from standing stop to 10,000'.
P-47M-2.49 seconds. ...
Good stuff. Though, being slow on the uptake, I was confused by the 2 point 49 seconds! After scratching myself for a while, I realized it was 2 minutes 49 seconds.
Correct me if I am wrong, but low climb time means faster acceleration in level flight. Both are about replacing energy, be it potential or kinetic.
To beat a -47M, it takes a high top speed, high acceleration and hitting power. It is hard to find all three. I have been trying the Yak which is a bit light on hitting power. La-7 might be the best in the non perk plane stable, but PAPA's post contradicts that.
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Maybe you meant to say the better climbers are also better at accelerating? Others can probably answer that better then I but I know of the planes I listed the Spit-16, LA-7, and 109K4s, are very good accelerators too. But there is so much more to that, E retention and all.
Still all things being equal the P-47M is probably better then average in climb and acceleration. The higher you get the better "it" gets. Until you get to an altitude where the jug is without peer.
Im not a big Jug driver but I know with the "M" available I'll be spending more time learning to fight them. With no ords available for it I'll bet a lot of guys improve their Jug skills now.
Good stuff. Though, being slow on the uptake, I was confused by the 2 point 49 seconds! After scratching myself for a while, I realized it was 2 minutes 49 seconds.
Correct me if I am wrong, but low climb time means faster acceleration in level flight. Both are about replacing energy, be it potential or kinetic.
To beat a -47M, it takes a high top speed, high acceleration and hitting power. It is hard to find all three. I have been trying the Yak which is a bit light on hitting power. La-7 might be the best in the non perk plane stable, but PAPA's post contradicts that.
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Tim, HTC doesn't always model things 100% the way they should. Sometimes they take a known flight model and tweak it as a gift to the players. Example1: the F4u1/F4u1A. Example2: The 190A8/190F8. They just recycled the power charts, despite this being inaccurate. On the other hand it gives us additional aircraft to play with.
As for the P-47M, there's some question whether they ever flew with 8 guns (weight savings being the idea behind it) and there's almost no chance they flew with more than 267 rounds per gun either, so currently there are too many loadout options (while missing some DT options, no less!).
It's funny to say "at 25%" it can do X or it can do Y. Because "at 25%" it doesn't even have 10 minutes of flight time. 25% internal fuel gives you about 9.5 minutes of gas. That counts taking off, climbing out, trying to find a fight. By the time you're 10mi from base you have to turn back to land again!
Might as well say "A spit can do this at 25% gas" -- it means nothing in AH because you won't find a spit on 25% fuel unless he's already RTB and has 5 minutes gas left.
While the 47M is faster than the Ds, I've been eating them up in anything from p51s to 109Fs, to C2s... It may be fast (more power to ya) but it's still a P-47 and it's no zeke, it's no spitfire, and folks that keep pretending it is in the MAs are going to keep dying to my guns.
And the folks racking up 7,8,9,10 kills per sortie are doing so in a way that is easily repeatable with P51Ds, P47D40s, P38s, 109Ks... It's no credit to the ride that you're landing kills, unless you are doing something that you couldn't do before. A pick is a pick, be in a tempest or a P-47M. Try mixing it up and you'll see what a lot of folks in the MA are seeing: dead P-47s.
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My post was rather rhetoric. As you seem to be regarded as the "WW2-aircraft-know-it-all" in this board, I was curious to know if you are a man to admit you are wrong even in this minor issue. The answer seems to be "no".
Regards from a lowly parolee.
Why should I have responded to your ill mannered question? You could have phrased it without being rude. Seriously, you were looking for your childish "neener, neener" moment, nothing less. I never have an issue admitting being wrong. Apparently, unlike you, I don't have a need to be an intardnet wise-ass to build self-worth. You still have no concept of polite discussion.
The fact is that several Aces High aircraft have climb data where aux tanks were filled at take off. In addition to those you mentioned, there's the F6F-5, Tempest and Typhoon. Probably more. Happy now? Feeling better about yourself? It won't last...
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Tim, HTC doesn't always model things 100% the way they should. Sometimes they take a known flight model and tweak it as a gift to the players. Example1: the F4u1/F4u1A. Example2:
What exactly is wrong with our 1A? We have a late-block F4U-1A with water injection (technically our F4U-1 should have WEP removed) and paddle prop.
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Widewing,
Great information. How were you able to determine the turn radius? I'd like to do that for a number of aircraft.
:salute
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How were you able to determine the turn radius? I'd like to do that for a number of aircraft.
Use Badboy's Bootstrap Calculator (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,233819.0.html)
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You could have phrased it without being rude.
If I sounded rude, I apologize
..intardnet wise-ass.
I you consider the above as not rude, can I use the same expression of you ?
The fact is that..Happy now? Feeling better about yourself? It won't last...
Is that your way of saying that you were wrong ?
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Off topic, no need to continue this anyway