Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Clone155 on October 22, 2009, 05:46:22 PM
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The 'roid rage CVs have to stop. I cannot think of a way to sink a CV in an airplane. If you try torpedo bombing, the laser ack gets you, if you are lucky to get that close before the manned 5 inchers get you. If you try dive bombing, HA! I really don't think it is possible to stay above 3k near a CV for more than 3 minutes. I tried level bombing today in B-17s. I managed to get 6 500 pound bombs out from two planes, the third having blown up already by the puffy ack. shortly after the drop, my second bomber catches fire, and then my last bomber catches fire. And to top it off, my bombs didn't even sink the CV, having almost all of them hit.
So the way I see it is you have the shore batteries, or another CV, maybe a PT boat if you are lucky. Back in the good ol' days, I remember that the puffy ack was just for looks, these days their is 3 times as much, and as deadly as a tiger is to a fat kid covered in bacon.
GRIPE GRIPE GRIPE!!! :mad:
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You're not doing it right.
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I see CV's getting sunk by planes all the time.
Much more than by any other means.
So it's just you.... :P
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9 out of 10 times I drop on a cv I sink it if my drop is true. If I just botch the drop is a different story. I will withhold my personal tactics but I do not lancstuka or bomb-n-bail. I may lose all 3 bombers from ack or fighters and rarely make it home totally clean. CVs are easy-mode to kill except the rare occasion that a really talented CV driver has the con.
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"You load four tons of Number 9 coal,
Another day older and deeper in debt..."
That's the answer, by the way, four tons = eight thousand pounds.
"Saint Peter don't you call me, 'cause I can't go,
I owe my soul to the company sto'"
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Ideally it was probably designed for a squad sized unit to sink it using multiple dive bombers or torpedo planes. Since we cant always get that many guys together many of us level bomb with heavy bombers.
Try this.
For every 10,000 ft lead the CV 1 deck length. I usually bomb at 10k. As you approach get calibrated. Watch for a last second turn by a crafty Captain Nemo. For good measure, since you have eggs to spare, drop 1 a little ways before your actual drop,as many Captain Nemos listen for the falling bombs, and then turn the cv. If it doesnt turn, lead it 1 deck length( if at 10k) and drop 4 1000lb bombs on it (totals 12 with drone's bombs).
If it does turn, look at the arc of the ships wake, still lead the 1 deck length but place it on the radius of the turn...where the ship will be in its turn once the bombs hit.
Hope that helps. Please dont dive lancs on it or suicide p47s into it.
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Torp runs are very very challenging, but there is help out there for that.
B25h can be very effective, esp in numbers.
NOE arado's are deadly, just keep it very low and fast, pull up after release.
Lanc's from 10k work, as do 4 TBM's with the 2k bomb. You just have to hit it enough times with enough ord before it regenerates.
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I cannot for the life of me level bomb a CV, so don't feel bad. I prefer Torpedoes in a JU88 anyway :t
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Similar stuff to what was posted earlier.
Sinking CV's (and learning how to sink them) takes patience.
* One flight of B26's, 500# bomb load, 50% fuel.
*If you have spotted the CV while in climbout, continue climbing on any course except toward it, until you level.
* 8,000 ft. is my magic altitude. You will of course always be exposed to the fleets 5-inch guns, but you are barely out of reach of the auto-ack. 8K also works because most times you can anticipate the CV's turn-arc and still hit it. It has been my experience that it is usually too late for the carrier no matter which way it turns. One ship length out, eyeball the turn arc, and drop a ship-length ahead where you think the CV will end up in that turn arc. Also, look at the pattern of turns the CV makes. Sometimes instead of a blatent turn, it will zig-zag left & right. Also, typically I have to settle my speed so that my climb rate on the E6B reads zero with my doors open. Then I calibrate, double, triple, even quadruple-checking my E6B for any change in speed. Do this enough and you get good at it. If your calibrated speed matches within one m.p.h. of your true airspeed, you are set.
*Drop salvo should be set to 4. Hit your bomb release a couple times to spread a good carpet across your target.
Usually, the only times I fail to sink a CV is if it has a good air defense intercepting my bombers, someone is a damn good shot in the 5-inchers, or someone really makes that CV turn as tight as they can, virtually stopping it in the water.
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Attacking a cv lonewolf should be suicide.
I'm of the opinion that there should be some type of damage limiter on the CV that will only allow so much damage to be absorbed at any one time. The lanc-stukas, and other such flight (of 3) heavy bombers dropping 24 tons (or more) of ord on a CV is not only like using a hammer to kill a bug, but it quite inaccurate historically. I have no idea how it would be coded, but if there would be a way to allow no more than 6k of damage to the CV in any determined amount of time, say 30 seconds, I'd be all for it.
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formation of ar234's at 2500msl if someone got the radar already... :noid
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The 'roid rage CVs have to stop. I cannot think of a way to sink a CV in an airplane. If you try torpedo bombing, the laser ack gets you, if you are lucky to get that close before the manned 5 inchers get you. If you try dive bombing, HA! I really don't think it is possible to stay above 3k near a CV for more than 3 minutes. I tried level bombing today in B-17s. I managed to get 6 500 pound bombs out from two planes, the third having blown up already by the puffy ack. shortly after the drop, my second bomber catches fire, and then my last bomber catches fire. And to top it off, my bombs didn't even sink the CV, having almost all of them hit.
So the way I see it is you have the shore batteries, or another CV, maybe a PT boat if you are lucky. Back in the good ol' days, I remember that the puffy ack was just for looks, these days their is 3 times as much, and as deadly as a tiger is to a fat kid covered in bacon.
GRIPE GRIPE GRIPE!!! :mad:
i use lancs. i've sunk em in ew using ju88's. if you're not sinking them, you're not hitting them as hard as you think.
i hit em from 10k alt.
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I've had great success with the Torpedoes on my 38 as well. It's nice to be able to get to my target quickly.
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Ju88's are the easiest for me to kill them with.
Climb to like ~6k then get over the CV, make sure you are coming down on it, on its heading, right behind it.
Put your dive flaps out for a few seconds, then retract them.
You will have speed to get out and hit the cv with. Drop your bombs and get out of there!
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Ju88's are the easiest for me to kill them with.
Climb to like ~6k then get over the CV, make sure you are coming down on it, on its heading, right behind it.
Put your dive flaps out for a few seconds, then retract them.
You will have speed to get out and hit the cv with. Drop your bombs and get out of there!
That tactic is legit because of the dual-purpose roll of the Ju-88. It's disgusting to see a *gamer* doing the same with say, B17's. Oh, well. Dollars over quality.
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Ya know im with you Clone155 I have to say the 5" guns are too deadly espically the manned ones in WW2 they couldn't shoot on the deck.I have sunk a cruiser before with a TBM I somehow caught them of guard.Cvs are good as they are but we need just one thing no more on the deck 5" shooting. ;)
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That tactic is legit because of the dual-purpose roll of the Ju-88. It's disgusting to see a *gamer* doing the same with say, B17's. Oh, well. Dollars over quality.
level bombing. 10k alt. lead the boat by one boat length.
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:) Guys I know how to bomb, been doing it almost 4 years now, I was just whining because I lost all my bombers by auto puffy, but thanks anyway :aok
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About 8 of us dropped a CV the other night on the first pass with dive bombing KI-61s.
Clown car mission!! :rock
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:) Guys I know how to bomb, been doing it almost 4 years now, I was just whining because I lost all my bombers by auto puffy, but thanks anyway :aok
aawww jeeze edith!!!! :D
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About 8 of us dropped a CV the other night on the first pass with dive bombing KI-61s.
Clown car mission!! :rock
so? you had 17 pile-its in every airplane? and they had wobbly wheels and wings? :rofl :bolt:
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Follow bhawk51 around he will show you how to get it done. :bolt:
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I just wait until they come close to shore and kill them with a Tiger.
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That tactic is legit because of the dual-purpose roll of the Ju-88. It's disgusting to see a *gamer* doing the same with say, B17's. Oh, well. Dollars over quality.
What? The B-17 could too pull a hammerhead, fully loaded, and dive 8K to release. I have multiple phantom books I will cite, by authors who do it repeatedly in computer simulations modeled by other folks born 50 years after the last B-17 was retired.
PS. Fortress is a Tard.
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level bombing. 10k alt. lead the boat by one boat length.
Works almost every time. :aok
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Works almost every time. :aok
yep. the only problem with this method, is if someone is good n the con, and turns it at just the right moment.
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B26's are rugged+fast+alot of tail ammo.....clearly the best cv sinker.
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Sinking CV's (and learning how to sink them) takes patience.
I use an almost identical system to thundr, but with 234s. The vast majority of guys are not gonna be able to hit 234's at (I go 7.5k) doing 400 mph with fighters or 5 inch. You just need to be a little more precise with your drop, as you have 700 lbs less ords per plane than with b-26's.
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About 8 of us dropped a CV the other night on the first pass with dive bombing KI-61s.
Clown car mission!! :rock
Boner,
You forgot that we also took out the cruiser with our "Clown Cars". hehhehe they were always magic in killing CV's.
All the Best...
Jay
awDoc1
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Attacking a cv lonewolf should be suicide.
Bringing a CV in to a mile offshore from a hostile base should be suicide. Taking off from a turning CV should be suicide. Landing on a CV deck with gear up should make the CV unusable for 15 minutes. Putting a thousand pounder smack in the middle of the flight deck should make the CV unusable for 1-4 hours. Hitting a CV that has loaded and fueled planes on the deck should sink the CV, or at least make it unusable for the next three months. CVs shouldn't respawn for at least a year. LVTs shouldn't spawn closer than 2 miles from shore. 40mm ack and HE rounds from a tank shouldn't do any serious structural damage to a CV or cruiser, nor should any gun carried by any airplane. Naval guns should have extremely accurate rangefinders and be controlled by a single director, and the shells should contain colored dye so you can tell which splashes are yours.
The point of all the above is that the naval component of this game is highly abstracted and thoroughly unrealistic. It makes for a better game. Realistic naval/amphibious ops within the time and distance scale at which this game is played would be unworkable and no one would want them. And IMO it's pointless to complain that one particular aspect of CVs is historically unrealistic when everything else about how CVs work is unrealistic too - as long as CVs magically reappear 10 minutes after being sunk, it makes sense for them to be easier to sink than was the case historically.
I'm of the opinion that there should be some type of damage limiter on the CV that will only allow so much damage to be absorbed at any one time. The lanc-stukas, and other such flight (of 3) heavy bombers dropping 24 tons (or more) of ord on a CV is not only like using a hammer to kill a bug, but it quite inaccurate historically.
Only if the game is also changed to prevent putting a CV on a course that will bring it within 50 miles of an enemy base, and damage to CVs is modeled more realistically so a single egg can take out the flight deck for hours or days.
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At worst, my kill percentage on CV's is 4 out of 5 attempts, and fairly rarily do I lose even one buff to any ack. And if I do, it's usually puffy auto ack. I use B24's because of their specific bomb load (2000 lb'ers), it's climb rate, speed and defensive guns. My attack approach is always at exactly 10K alt which, as stated by others, puts me above the small auto ack, and is much more difficult (though not completely impossible) for the average 5" gunner to make a hit at that alt. I'm also less likely to be intercepted by air defenders at that alt. I drop the 2000 lb. bombs in four single (x3) salvos because of the increased kill/damage circle they impose over 1000 or 500 lb'ers.
My first choice for approach if I have time to set up properly is as close to perfectly abeam (at right angles) of the CV as I can, or as second choice, head-on. Rarely, if ever, from directly astern. Head-on is OK as the fast closure rate between the buffs and CV gives the CV driver less time to react and turn before the drop hits. A rear approach, however, is too slow, giving ack gunners and the CV driver too much time to react. And, in both head-on or rear approach, if the CV begins a turn you can only adjust effectively once, to the right or left, leaving the other direction uncovered by your drop. Further, it's often imposible to adjust soon enough to get your drop a full boat length in front of the CV on its new heading. With an abeam approach you can spread a very heavy drop in four salvos across the CV's path and to both the right or left of it, regardless of which way it turns to evade. With this approach and drop pattern, chances of at least a serious hit are very high.
Approaching from some angle off of the CV's heading (abeam), and aiming roughly 1 boat length ahead, I drop a string of four single (3x) salvos across his path, whether he turns or not. With four salvo's of 3x 2000lb. bombs, I drop one salvo early in case the CV is turns towards me, one in front of his straight heading, and one salvo dropped late in case the CV turns away from me. I drop the fourth salvo with one of the others depending upon what I see the CV do at the last instant: stays straight it's two salvos in front, turns towards me its two salvos early, away from me, two salvos late.
With each salvo being 3x2000lb., and the increased shock area of the larger bombs over 1000lb. or 500lb'ers, the CV almost always goes down from a direct hit, plus the contributed shock wave from the near misses.
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Attacking a cv lonewolf should be suicide.
A flight of 30 men is lonewolf?
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How much ord does it take to kill a CV? Does it matter were you hit the CV? Because tonight I landed 9K on the back of a CV and it still steamed along. Being the part were the engine is, is it more thickly armoured in the back then anywere else?
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B26 at low level, approach with doors open on the deck (from the side least likly to be defended, or in conjunction with another aircraft) close until the ack begins to fire..
switch view to external, pull up sharply to500+ ft, whilst making the SIDE of the cv your aim point pickle all bombs and pull away sharply.
I bit tough to get the knack of bombing this way, and even tougher to survive, but i get good redults, and one isnt forced to waste time climbing out. :salute
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How much ord does it take to kill a CV? Does it matter were you hit the CV? Because tonight I landed 9K on the back of a CV and it still steamed along. Being the part were the engine is, is it more thickly armoured in the back then anywere else?
8k kills a clean cv. You didn't hit with all bombs.
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:) Guys I know how to bomb, been doing it almost 4 years now, I was just whining because I lost all my bombers by auto puffy, but thanks anyway :aok
what was your alt?