Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: StSanta on August 30, 2001, 07:43:00 PM
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Man.
Lately I've had a lot of enjoyment from this sim since I've managed to ignore som discrepancies and annoyances and seen the game as just any other game - like Rogue Spear where there's a bug that'll enable to see around corners etc.
But the Golly-geened 190 1 ping from 6 o clock engine out thing is getting on my nerves real bad. Other planes have the same problem I hear.
An N1K, d900, spraying like mad. Lands one round. Radiator is ok. Oil is better than it has ever been. But the engine is kaputt, and will never fly again.
PLEASE HTC, don't just look into it. And please, don't wait for 1.08 to get out to fix it. From what I've read, 1.08 is more than 2 weeks away - maybe much more. Release an interim patch that fixes it as soon as possible. Please.
It's all well and good to add new wonderous superplanes and fill out the planeset - I agree with that. But I'd *really* appreciate if issues with existing planes would be looked into.
Ok, my first whine in about 3-4 month - since I started viewing AH like "any other game". I'd ask the cheerleaders to spare their ammo, but I gather that'd have no effect so I won't. I'll just say that this post isn't even LW specific. Other than that, I'll do my utmost not be lured in by the trolls.
Thank you for your time HTC and others.
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the one thing i've noticed about the 190 is it's ironic how much damage the 109 will soak up comparatively - considering what an armored beast the 190 was in reality and of course that it had a radial engine.
i think 1.08 will bring some nice changes to the damage models though. hold on santa :cool:
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Second that!
[ 08-30-2001: Message edited by: Tac ]
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I've actually noticed that to Mrfish, the 109 seems to be a tougher bird to bring down (at least when I'm flying it and people keep shooting at me). I've also had the 190 soak up some hits though, as long as the engine doesn't go it is a pretty tough plane as well.
I'd say the P38 needs to be looked at sooner- it seems to have bigger issues.
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please
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Didn't Pyro say that it was on 1.08's "to do" list?
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I positively confirm 1.08 is 2 weeks away, Santa. :D
Cheers,
Pepe
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Hey Santa... I rem flying a fwa5 for giggles and guess what happened.... no engine from my 6 postion. I made a comment that NOW i know what the Luffy dudes are saying. :(
I think the Htc crew are going to fix alot of stuff this patch. I think this is why its taking so long. They are addressing alot of issues that have been on the back burner.
Your a fine pilot and a good sort of indivdual so please have some patience and look for a lost looking 205 or 47 and continue your streak of shooting my bellybutton down :)
xBAT
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just wanted to add my support for this bug to be fixed.I have also been extremely frustrated by this common occourance.
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Mr.Fish wrote:
considering what an armored beast the 190 was in reality and of course that it had a radial engine
There is no such thing. Period.
"Heavily armored aircraft" is a myth.
Even the heaviest armor carried by aircraft in WWII is essentially useless against heavy machine guns rounds and cannon shells (AP or semi-AP) at typical engagement ranges. The armor was designed to stop rifle caliber bullets and shell fragments.
And if you read more about the BMW radial engine, you'll find that it was prone to engine fires due to battle damage due to its direct fuel injection (ie a fuel line running to each individual cylinder).
I'll try to find my pics I have scanned of the Fw190A8 armor layouts and thickness'.
PS: Santa this isn't to say I disagree with you, I'm just rebutting the old "the armored like a tank" myth that pops up regularly.
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I found it. The armor specs on a 190.
http://www.vermin.net/fw190/190-armor-1.jpg (http://www.vermin.net/fw190/190-armor-1.jpg)
http://www.vermin.net/fw190/190-armor-2.jpg (http://www.vermin.net/fw190/190-armor-2.jpg)
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It's funny, no really. I flew the 38 on about 7 missions yesterday and lost an engine twice with a one-ping hit(with the glass tail issue at least twice with similar hits). While I can remember having this happen in other single engined aircraft It's so rare I can't remember the last time it occurred (though I have no real experience in the 190 so I'll give it a try and see what happens).
This is a joke. The 38 was one of the more rugged aircraft of the war, but in here the Zero is a tank by comparison.
Charon
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I think it's perfectly acceptable for the 190 to puke when I shoot at it....kinda balances out that wiggly fishy floppin thingie you guys love to do :)
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Thats fine... fix the engine if that is indeed a problem but look into the overall toughness of the 109/190 series. They seem to be the toughest planes in the game at least, against machine guns. I can down a p47 much easier. The 190's shrug off large amounts of fifty caliber. This is wrong and needs to be fixed as much as the "engine" bug.
lazs
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your specs only show that it was well armored.
it doesn't have to be impervious to bullets to be called well armored it just needs lots of armor. a plane with ANY armor is going to be more effective at possibly deflecting the path of a bullet, slowing it down or minimizing it's impact.
i don't disagree that 50 calibers would penetrate the armor or that the radial engine wasn't damaged when hit by a shell or on any other of those points. i will say that in having a radial engine you have a lot less damageable components and it's very arrangement can isolate damage in ways an inline can't.
having a fire start is a lot different than having an engine stop rotating 1 second after the bullet strikes.
really you are using my post as a vehicle to make a point against an argument which i am not supporting. it was well armored plane - plain and simple - there is no implication in that statement that it couldn't be damaged - only that a less armored plane like the 109 was more suseptible to damage.
it does remain ironic that a more armored plane is more susepticle to immediate engine failure than a less armored plane.
- do you have evidence that the 190 was less armored than the 109? perhaps then you'll have point. if the armor was penetratable but supplied ANY level of protection even if minimal then shouldn't that be reflected in the model?
if the 109 is in fact less armored and has a more fragile engine then logically it should suffer the one ping problem too right? or is it a symptom exclusive to radials in your learned opinion? how about the zero it is lightly armored and has a radial where's it's one ping failure?
if you are arguing that 190s were not invinceable due to their armor then i agree with you - if you are suggesting their armor was useless i have to disagree.
a sword penetrates both leather and cloth which would you like to be wearing in battle?
[ 08-31-2001: Message edited by: mrfish ]
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You guys simply need to stop getting shot until the engine is 'fixed'...
I have a better kill/death in the 190A5 than I do in the P51B...
-SW
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Didnt the P-38 have 2 radiators per engine (hey I want the 2nd one in my CNTRL-D list! hehe)?
They did say they were looking over the 38 and the 190 on next version. What they are looking over, dunno, would be nice to know... nice to know...nice to know *rocks back and forth on his straight jacket*
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Vermilion have to disagre on the teze direct injetion is less reliable like carburator
how many carburator have p 47 ? how the fule coming to the carburators ?
what fuel system have tempest ?
or pony ? ar the fuel pipes on pony armored with chobam armor ? :)
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Today I was in CT , in a P47 and got a real sweet burst of my guns on the rear fuselage and tail of a 190. He lost his engine and had to ditch. He said he only got 1 ping and then immediate engine failure ,while I saturated his tail section from approx 90 degrees off his heading , so it was all fuselage and tail,with very visable hit sprites in that section.
Not the first time I have shot the same area on a 190 to see it go dead stick from engine failure. :(
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What I'm telling you is that the armor is useless in regards to the discussion at hand, which was getting hit by .50's and 20mm Hispano (AP or semi-AP).
It was not useless in regards to light MG's, HE ammo of the lighter 20mm variety, and shell splinters/fragments.
Minus, I'm not going to debate engine design. I'm just passing along a historical fact, which was that the BMW 801 was prone to engine fires because of its fuel injection. Believe me or not, its your choice.
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mrfish... exactly... the 109 and the 190 both are too tough 'comparitively'.... neither should be nearly as tough as a p47 or an f6 or a Corsair. They are too tough. It was common for LW pilots to bail if rounds hit the engine area because the injection would spray high pressure fuel on the hot engine or, in the case of the 190a models, the cowl ring would create a "bullet trap" (much like on early panzer tanks turrents) that would funnel rounds into the poorly placed circular oil cooler... the punctured oil cooler would then proceed to spray oil all over the hot engine.
Yeah... maybe the engine stops too easily but it should catch fire instead. to me the fire would be worse so you guys are getting a good deal. No way should a smaller, more closely packed (vitals wise) plane like a 109 or 190 be as tough as the larger American ones.
lazs
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Hi Santa!!
Hope they fix your 190... AFTER they fix the tissue paper tail on my pony. The pony's been porked longer than trhe 190. :)
Frankly, us pony pilots have ALWAYS had a 'one ping engine'... which is much preferred over a one-ping tail.
Look at the bright side... you should have no problem squeezing me out in front in a scissors if you have no engine. Then you can shoot my tail off on the overshoot.. only one round required to pluck it clean off..
Bet I spin in before you glide in....
:D
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In reference to FW armor, I found this interesting after reading previous posts on the FW 190 one ping problem. It can be found at:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2072/breed.html (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/2072/breed.html)
It is called "The Best of the Breed"
by Col. "Kit" Carson
A clip from what Col. "Kit" Carson has to say about the FW 190...
For example, my principal aiming point was always the forward portion of an enemy ship; the engine, cockpit, wing root section. If you get any hits at all, even only a few, you're bound to put one or two slugs into the engine compartment. Having a couple of bullets riccochet off the engine block and tear up some ignition harness is not too bad at all, at least not fatal. But to have all those thin-walled oil cooling tubes ahead of the engine is bad news. Any hits or riccochets in the engine section are bound to puncture the oil tubes. Then the whole engine is immersed in oil spray, and sometimes it would flash over into a fire.
Gunner <CAF>
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stsanta
Gimme a break man,
The 1 ping engine/tail is the only way I'll ever down your ass.
I will,if necessary,spend a lifetime honing my fighting skills in the hope that one day Ill look over the side of my spit and see you spiralling downward in a beautifil orange fireball.I shall then proceed to strafe your still warm corpse.Once out of ammo I will fly over head throwing any loose change I have at you.Once out of fuel,I'll land gather you remains,feed them to a dog then shoot the dog.Then,just maybe,Ill find the inner peace I long for
I have to go now,the men in lab coats are here to take me to the happy castle.
Tozza
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gunnercaf you forgot to include this quote from that same source:
'On another occasion, I jumped one directly over the city of Paris and fired all my ammo, but he was only smoking heavily after a long chase over the town. Assuming I was getting 10 percent hits, that airplane must have had 200 holes in it. It was a rugged machine.'
:)
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Hazed,
I like the FW190, but have not sent any time with it in AH. It just looks evil :) I hope they fix any bugs in it when I start flying it so I don't have to come in here an complain ;) From what I have read, the FW190 should take some damage, but it looks like the real ones had a soft spot.
Gunner <CAF>
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Originally posted by StSanta:
Man.
But the Golly-geened 190 1 ping from 6 o clock engine out thing is getting on my nerves real bad. Other planes have the same problem I hear.
An N1K, d900, spraying like mad. Lands one round. Radiator is ok. Oil is better than it has ever been. But the engine is kaputt, and will never fly again.
Santa, I understand you are frustrated. In the aove, you say "Lands one round." I'm curious ... how do you know it's one round? How do you know wasn't 20 rounds, all 1 millisecond apart?
I hear guys complaining about "one ping" and my wing is gone/my engine is gone/my radiator is gone & so on. Please tell me why you believe it's one round.
I am sure you have a better answer than "well, he was in a N1k/CHog/ and spraying around back there."
I'm not trying bait you, rather I am trying to understand.
AKcurly
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Not saying it should't take damage, what botthers me is ... well, Read Baddawg's reply above : He shoots at the tail at a 90deg angle (thus there's no way the bullet will go through the soft skin & turn 90 degs to the engine)
Something's amiss in the hit localisation / damage alocation right now. I Hope that that'll be fixed,
thank you.
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Originally posted by AKcurly:
I'm curious ... how do you know it's one round? AKcurly
Curly has a good point...seems to me depending on your wave file it could SOUND like one ping or if ya have custom sounds as many do, like multiple pings when ya get hit.
My question would be how fast can the wave file play?
If one round hits, and the sound starts....does it have time to finish then restart for next round hit?
I've looked at the AH sound directory and seen multiple hit sound wave files, how many of these are for A/C hits?
How many can play at once?
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This was covered in another thread awhile back. There is a bug with FW's and 38's and perhaps some other planes that bypasses any damage like oil leaks and instead knocks the engine out right away. It will be fixed in 1.08.
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the glide ratio needs to be fixed on the 190 series. I have put several half second bursts into them from ded six and lit em up like an Xmas tree only to have them glide (at full speed) a full sector to safety.
lazs
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Wonder what I'm doing wrong then... my 190 glides like a brick.
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Q: When does a 190 glide like a sailplane?
A: Only when it's engine suffers the 1-ping death!
With engine running or shut down manually the 190 is a flying brick - but if you get the 1-ping death (and you'll get that one a lot!) you'll glide better than any sailplane in in RL. It's true lazs - that's how I got back to base quite some times after fatal engine damage!! The only problem is to slow down on final approach... :) wish we would get braking chutes!!!
This 'feature' is present in the other planes as well (... I think - not too much experience in other planes).
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Thnx Pyro. What about the plane's structure? entire wings and tails lost in seemingly low amount of rnds (38 entire wing falls out with 3 or 4 .50 cal shots, b17 wings blown off with 9 or 10 .50 cals (and not on same spot). BohdiArm showed me a wing of a B-17 they are rebuilding.. good lord, that thing was built to EAT damage! I doubt 3 or 4 cannon rounds wouldve even done any serious damage to it (if it didnt hit fuel tanks that is).
Anyway, just curious if the entire damage model (not just the engines on these planes) was beeing looked on. A Y/N answer will suffice :)
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Kirin: P51D also does that , shot out motor , it's damn hard to land on the runway as it don't want to slow down . I think the ground effect has something to do with it also ? Seems the last little bit it doesn't want to come down .
But I'll take a ditch than a bail .
Hang u funny , yep have lost my tail before , mostly from ack . I have been leaving that stuff alone for awhile and my tails fine now :D
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Add Ta152 to the list of planes with 1 ping = engine out.
While this plane can really glide, you'll rarely bring it back to a friendly base, and even a ditch just near your runaway means the lost of 40 perks.
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Pyro: you rule :)
Excellent thread guys :D.
Tozza, I seem to recall being downed by you before. Very annoying :).
Re: the 1 ping from the N1K: how do I know it was just one ping? Well, 3 pings take my stabs off cleanly. 5 Pings separate the tail section from the rest of the plane (N1K 20mm).
When I survive a 20mm hit from an N1K, I count myself lucky :)
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Now i see kirin... still.... can't figure out how some of em change direction at least once and then can still do the LW "floppy fish" all the way home. I know the engine is ded cause I have put at least 100 rounds into em from ded six.
lazs
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To add to that st.Santa, HOW many bullets can possibly hit you on a hi speed hi angle snapshot? 1? 2? The n1k's guns refire rate aint that great either. Again, this points to something in the frail damage model. :(
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I also would like to voice my support. The D9 model suffers the same consequences from the 6 shot. D9 had armour around the radiator to protect it, and losing an engine to a 6 shot in the P-38 as well as any model of the 190 seems to be a regular occurance.
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well, 6 shot hitting the engines of 38 is ok, the engines are there without any structure that shields it like the 190 has the entire fuselage before the engine.
They will fix it, they said they were working on that.
Its the REST of the damage model that I still dont know if it will be looked upon.
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Well guess no 1.08 on tuesday.
Pyro stated they WILL fix it for 1.08, not that it HAS been fixed for 1.08 +(
SKurj
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Just saw Answer from Pyro so decided to change my post :D
[ 09-03-2001: Message edited by: Wilbus ]