Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Stalwart on October 26, 2009, 07:23:49 PM

Title: Rolling plane set
Post by: Stalwart on October 26, 2009, 07:23:49 PM
Got to thinking about the WWI arena, then had an idea.

Imagine a rolling plane set that spans all the operational aircraft from 1915 - 2010, including non-war and cold-war years.  The scope of that would be ambitious to say the least.  The only folks I can guess who might have everything on hand to do it today would be the folks at Jane's.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: nimble on October 26, 2009, 07:31:42 PM
I personally would rather they focus on WWII era stuff. The appeal of the game to me is that it is so focused and refined towards this time period. 
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 26, 2009, 07:31:45 PM
But then I won't be able to fly the one plane I want to fly when I want to fly it!   :cry
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: fudgums on October 26, 2009, 07:34:17 PM
Got to thinking about the WWI arena, then had an idea.

Imagine a rolling plane set that spans all the operational aircraft from 1915 - 2010, including non-war and cold-war years.  The scope of that would be ambitious to say the least.  The only folks I can guess who might have everything on hand to do it today would be the folks at Jane's.

Look at Bugs war in the AvA forum....
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Bronk on October 26, 2009, 07:37:31 PM
Just say NO to RPS.... HT did. :aok
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Stalwart on October 26, 2009, 07:59:27 PM
I personally would rather they focus on WWII era stuff. The appeal of the game to me is that it is so focused and refined towards this time period. 

Mee too.  As far as my Aces High experience goes, I feel the same way.  I'd rather see more planes, features, and revisions in the WWII era rather than see HTC expand their focus.

But, it's not my business model, it's theirs.  I suppose you pick up more subscribers by offering Fokker DR IIIs and Sopwith Camels than you would by adding the Mitsubishi G4M, or the B29.

Anyway, I was just wondering how far you could take the RPS concept.  There's a reason this wasn't posted in the Wish List forum.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Ghosth on October 27, 2009, 07:03:39 AM
Thanks but no thanks, no RPS in AH, no not ever.
Tooo many whines, too many people forced into flying planes they don't want to fly.

Its all about choices.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Ghosth on October 27, 2009, 07:09:04 AM
Stalwart, exactly so.

First off the 4 planes are "garage projects" stuff the guys do on weekends and off time.
Like a mechanic going home on weekends to work on his muscle car.

No real dev time or costs involved.

So they appeal to a new player base, and keep some existing customers that might be getting jaded.
At very very minimal cost or impact to the WWII side.

This is what we do for fun, but its what they do for a living.
They know us better than we know ourselves in most cases.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: JunkyII on October 27, 2009, 07:40:09 AM
Stalwart, exactly so.

First off the 4 planes are "garage projects" stuff the guys do on weekends and off time.
Like a mechanic going home on weekends to work on his muscle car.

No real dev time or costs involved.

So they appeal to a new player base, and keep some existing customers that might be getting jaded.
At very very minimal cost or impact to the WWII side.

This is what we do for fun, but its what they do for a living.
They know us better than we know ourselves in most cases.

Maybe that got some garage project time for Sabres and Migs too? :D
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Stalwart on October 27, 2009, 07:54:56 AM
I should have posted this in the O-club instead of here.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Oldman731 on October 27, 2009, 07:59:25 AM
Tooo many whines, too many people forced into flying planes they don't want to fly.

Its all about choices.


Sad, but too true.

- oldman
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: AWRaid on October 27, 2009, 08:40:01 AM
Maybe that got some garage project time for Sabres and Migs too? :D

I wouldn't complain.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Ghosth on October 27, 2009, 11:49:24 AM
Who am I to say. All things are possible.  :)
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 27, 2009, 11:58:38 AM
The RPS was the most fun thing that ever happened to Warbirds 2.x. :bolt:
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: TEShaw on October 27, 2009, 01:05:17 PM
Anaxogoras is being sarcastic. Hope y'all caught that.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 27, 2009, 01:22:47 PM
Anaxogoras is being sarcastic. Hope y'all caught that.

No, I am not.  I absolutely loved the RPS.  It was the only way to see the entire planeset get main arena time.  Combat tactics evolved with each aircraft addition.  Something new was going on every day.  :old:
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: DrDea on October 27, 2009, 01:37:25 PM
 The only down side of this,other than the cryfest involved would be you would need a score card to see what planes are flying when. The FSO,Senario crowds would adapt well I would think,since we never know whats next anyway :x, but the perk farmers and the air quake types wouldnt take to well to it. Besides,the real gem of this game is doing what suits you. RPS would kill that.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: TEShaw on October 27, 2009, 01:37:36 PM
OK, Anax, my bad; good luck with that.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Karnak on October 27, 2009, 01:57:49 PM
No, I am not.  I absolutely loved the RPS.  It was the only way to see the entire planeset get main arena time.  Combat tactics evolved with each aircraft addition.  Something new was going on every day.  :old:
I liked it too, but most did not.  I think most players than not are locked into only flying one, or a very narrow range, of aircraft.  I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number signed up just to fly, say, the P-51D.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Bronk on October 27, 2009, 03:04:21 PM
The RPS was the most fun thing that ever happened to Warbirds 2.x. :bolt:
How is that going now. :rofl
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 27, 2009, 03:14:15 PM
How is that going now. :rofl

Warbirds was going strong for years after the introduction of the RPS, so the point you are trying to make doesn't hold up.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Stalwart on October 27, 2009, 06:41:05 PM
Warbirds was going strong for years after the introduction of the RPS, so the point you are trying to make doesn't hold up.

I loved it...  I flew lots of different aircraft over a three week period and it made me a better (virtual) pilot.

I also had good friends that quit because they couldn't fly the ONE plane they liked more than half the time.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 27, 2009, 08:29:42 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if a significant number signed up just to fly, say, the P-51D.

Only reason I signed up for AW, WB and AH was to fly the P-38.   :D

ack-ack
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 27, 2009, 08:30:58 PM
Warbirds was going strong for years after the introduction of the RPS, so the point you are trying to make doesn't hold up.

If it worked so well in WB, why hasn't HiTech implemented it AH and why he dislikes it so much?


ack-ack
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 27, 2009, 08:34:08 PM
If it worked so well in WB, why hasn't HiTech implemented it AH and why he dislikes it so much?


ack-ack

Because he has to cater to the lowest common denominator which pays his bills?  :D  Didn't you enjoy the whines, like "It's not fair!  The P-38 pilots get their plane for 80% of the tour!" :P
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 27, 2009, 08:39:37 PM
Because he has to cater to the lowest common denominator which pays his bills?  :D  Didn't you enjoy the whines, like "It's not fair!  The P-38 pilots get their plane for 80% of the tour!" :P

The problem was that one usually had to wait a week or so to fly the P-38F so for the most part, I never flew the first week or so until the F became available.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Bronk on October 27, 2009, 09:24:10 PM
Because he has to cater to the lowest common denominator which pays his bills?  
Ohhh you mean the majority of players who don't like rps.

That would make you in the minority. :neener:

Again RPS sucks and will kill this type of game.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: bmwgs on October 27, 2009, 09:33:05 PM
Ohhh you mean the majority of players who don't like rps.

That would make you in the minority. :neener:

Again RPS sucks and will kill this type of game.

Never mind, was going to bust your chops a bit, but rather wait for a better subject, like NOE's or Mega Squads.  Till Later.      :D

Fred
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Stalwart on October 27, 2009, 09:40:44 PM
Again RPS sucks and will kill this type of game.

How do you really feel, Bronk?

I disagree.  There is a place for an RPS model in a WWII MMO flight sim.  Maybe not in Aces High.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 27, 2009, 09:45:46 PM
How do you really feel, Bronk?

I disagree.  There is a place for an RPS model in a WWII MMO flight sim.  Maybe not in Aces High.


That's the funny thing.  Some don't want to believe that others actually enjoy it and that there's enough of a market for it to be successful.  For now, there's plenty of Il-2 servers that offer rotating setups from all periods and fronts of the war, and they are doing quite well.  Many of these people would pay a monthly subscription fee for the same thing MMO.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Dawger on October 27, 2009, 09:55:36 PM
Every airplane available in an RPS is available any time anyone wants to fly it in AH.

Anyone can have their RPS any day of the week. They just can't force other folks to fly crap they don't wanna fly.

That is all RPS was, a way to force people to do play their way.

Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Bronk on October 28, 2009, 05:37:37 AM
Every airplane available in an RPS is available any time anyone wants to fly it in AH.

Anyone can have their RPS any day of the week. They just can't force other folks to fly crap they don't wanna fly.

That is all RPS was, a way to force people to do play their way.



Spot on!!!
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Bronk on October 28, 2009, 05:38:33 AM
Never mind, was going to bust your chops a bit, but rather wait for a better subject, like NOE's or Mega Squads.  Till Later.      :D

Fred
Good idea... best wait. ;)
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 28, 2009, 05:59:57 AM
Every airplane available in an RPS is available any time anyone wants to fly it in AH.

Anyone can have their RPS any day of the week. They just can't force other folks to fly crap they don't wanna fly.

That is all RPS was, a way to force people to do play their way.

Having no other viable arena except for the everything-available main arena makes the early war aircraft unviable, which is to say that it forces people into the late war rides except for a few opportunities during scenarios.  I can use your argument in either direction, so use it at your own peril.

Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: LLogann on October 28, 2009, 07:49:29 AM
What's RPS?
Anaxogoras is being sarcastic. Hope y'all caught that.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Ghosth on October 28, 2009, 07:52:34 AM
Apples and Oranges guys.

Warbirds had the RPS, it also had 2$ per hour.
So you'd wait for that part of the month when your fav ride appeared. Fly like crazy for a few days.
Then when the next uber ride appeared you'd give it up. Go fly H2H or do something else till your part of the month rolled around again.

Since most of us were on limited budgets it didn't work that bad. Old hands who were good in 3 or 4 planes could actually fly most of the month if they could afford the bill.

Now AH comes into the picture, flat rate priceing, no more 2$ a month.
And guess what, no more RPS.
Why? Because anything that takes choices away from customers long term = less customers.

Even after WB matched AH price point, it was RPS vs anyplane anytime you wanted.
Who's still flying WB? And look at all the people in AH.
They all voted with their feet folks.

We will never see a true RPS in AH, why would you possibly want to go back to those horrid days.

Even assuming you could get any 10 people to agree on release dates for each Aircraft, which they never would. Your still denying CHOICE from paying customers.

Yes we tolerated it in WB, until someone showed us a better way.
At which point we dumped it like a bad habit.

If your still dreaming about RPS your stuck in the past.
Get over it.

Those days are gone, your not going to see 109's ruling the skys with no P51's to chase them down.
It just is NOT going to happen.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Oldman731 on October 28, 2009, 08:15:04 AM
If your still dreaming about RPS your stuck in the past.
Get over it.

Those days are gone, your not going to see 109's ruling the skys with no P51's to chase them down.
It just is NOT going to happen.


Am I missing something?  We have what amounts to an RPS now.  If you like Gavagai's idea of having all period planes available without an Axis v. Allies distinction, you get that in EW and MW.  If you want the historic Axis v. Allies in different periods, you have that, too in the Axis v Allies arena (in fact, we've several times run an actual AvA RPS spanning the entire ETO war....takes about six weeks).  Anyone is free to take advantage of these opportunities.  If people aren't doing that, then issues other than an RPS are more important to them.  I suspect that the three biggest reasons, in order of importance, are (1) desire to be in the arena with the most numbers; (2) desire to fly with squad mates; and (3) desire to fly a particular aircraft.

It's up to the people who want to have better RPS play to encourage others to change those priorities.  Forcing the change by simply imposing an RPS on everyone strikes me as counterproductive.

- oldman
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 28, 2009, 09:27:20 AM

Am I missing something?  We have what amounts to an RPS now.  If you like Gavagai's idea of having all period planes available without an Axis v. Allies distinction, you get that in EW and MW.  If you want the historic Axis v. Allies in different periods, you have that, too in the Axis v Allies arena (in fact, we've several times run an actual AvA RPS spanning the entire ETO war....takes about six weeks).  Anyone is free to take advantage of these opportunities.  If people aren't doing that, then issues other than an RPS are more important to them.  I suspect that the three biggest reasons, in order of importance, are (1) desire to be in the arena with the most numbers; (2) desire to fly with squad mates; and (3) desire to fly a particular aircraft.

It's up to the people who want to have better RPS play to encourage others to change those priorities.  Forcing the change by simply imposing an RPS on everyone strikes me as counterproductive.

- oldman

Hi Oldman,

The EW, MW, and LW arenas are only a very rough version of an RPS.  The original RPS started with the 1940 planeset, and would add aircraft each day going through the months of each year.  Our EW arena already has the 109F-4, Spit IX, etc.  The closest thing to an RPS in AH is the AvA, and even that does not have the effect of the original RPS, which was to see combat tactics evolve and change on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Stalwart on October 30, 2009, 12:19:20 AM
... anything that takes choices away from customers long term = less customers.

True.  Apply that logic just a little further.

If your still dreaming about RPS your stuck in the past.
Get over it.

Why so hostile?  After all, I'm just a customer with a preference.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Ghosth on October 30, 2009, 05:29:37 AM
Not Hostile. Very simple, your a customer who wants it back the bad old way it used to be.

Sorry but we like it the way it is. Nuff said.

If you want an RPS then get involved in the AvA, thats your best bet.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Anaxogoras on October 30, 2009, 06:27:40 AM
Sorry but we like it the way it is. Nuff said.

Who is we?  I am part of "we" because I am also a customer, along with others who also like an RPS.  Therefore "we like it the way it is," is false.  True would be "we disagree about it."

I do love the bullying tone that the anti-RPS people feel it's necessary to adopt.  No one should be against an RPS arena alongside a free-for-all arena.  After all, it's about choice, right?  I don't think an experiment like that has been done.  It was either forcing the non-RPS people into an RPS-arena, or forcing RPS people into the free-for-all arena.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Stalwart on October 30, 2009, 08:06:45 AM
Right Anaxogoras,

Having and RPS arena as an alternative to what is already there takes nothing away from anyone.

Ghosth, "We" disagree.  But only "you" feel it necessary to try and end discussion.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Ghosth on October 30, 2009, 09:48:47 AM
Sorry but I beg to disagree sir.

Hitech has clearly said that he will never bring RPS to AH.

Who am I to argue?

At the end of this whole thread there are what, 2 of you that want it badly enough to try to stand up for it?
What does that tell you?

Either way I'm out of there, I just replied last time because you accused me of being hostile.
Now your accusing me of wanting to end the discussion.
Wrong on both counts.
But, have it your way, if you like.



Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: RufusLeaking on October 30, 2009, 10:02:27 AM
Having and RPS arena as an alternative to what is already there takes nothing away from anyone.
Pardon my disorientation as I am in agreement with both Bronk and Ack Ack on this point: Anything that limits choice in airframes for everyone is bad.

Putting an RPS arena out there would likely result in another under utilized arena.  To contradict my own argument, FSO's and Snapshots provide restricted plane sets and are very popular. 

Still, restriction of choice is usually bad.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Kazzzz on October 30, 2009, 10:47:16 AM
As much as I enjoy Aces High after years of Warbirds, the most fun I had flying was the old WB WWII arena with RPS, and no in flight radar. Would have a guy in twr calling out con locations, nothing has ever come close to that since.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Kazzzz on October 30, 2009, 10:49:40 AM
Oh and one more thing if I upped an allied aircraft I would only be facing axis aircraft. Something about spit vs spit just never sat right with me. Just ruins the immersion
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Bronk on October 30, 2009, 01:56:58 PM
Pardon my disorientation as I am in agreement with both Bronk and Ack Ack on this point: Anything that limits choice in airframes for everyone is bad.

Putting an RPS arena out there would likely result in another under utilized arena.  To contradict my own argument, FSO's and Snapshots provide restricted plane sets and are very popular. 

Still, restriction of choice is usually bad.
1st, welcome to the dark side.
2nd, you sign up for FSOs so you know what you are in for. No one is forced to fly FSOs


Apples to oranges.
Ohh and  :banana: just because.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 30, 2009, 04:19:43 PM
Pardon my disorientation as I am in agreement with both Bronk and Ack Ack on this point: Anything that limits choice in airframes for everyone is bad.

Putting an RPS arena out there would likely result in another under utilized arena.  To contradict my own argument, FSO's and Snapshots provide restricted plane sets and are very popular.  

Still, restriction of choice is usually bad.

FSO and Snapshots aren't a contradiction to the argument.  Those are special events where the participants know before hand that there is a limited plane set.  It is their choice to attend these special events and it is not forced upon them like it would be if a RPS system was introduced into the main arenas.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Stalwart on October 30, 2009, 06:05:20 PM
Ack Ack,  I don't believe anyone is advocating an RPS model for the main arenas.

If they are, I do not stand with them.

However, if there were an RPS arena, I would probably fly there most of the time.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: The Fugitive on October 30, 2009, 06:09:27 PM
Ack Ack,  I don't believe anyone is advocating an RPS model for the main arenas.

If they are, I do not stand with them.

However, if there were an RPS arena, I would probably fly there most of the time.


you and the other 3 guys that like this idea   :D
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Bronk on October 30, 2009, 06:33:45 PM
Ack Ack,  I don't believe anyone is advocating an RPS model for the main arenas.

If they are, I do not stand with them.

However, if there were an RPS arena, I would probably fly there most of the time.
AVA.... ohh wait low numbers.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Ack-Ack on October 30, 2009, 06:52:26 PM
Ack Ack,  I don't believe anyone is advocating an RPS model for the main arenas.

If they are, I do not stand with them.

However, if there were an RPS arena, I would probably fly there most of the time.

As someone pointed out, the AvA is pretty much a defacto RPS arena by virtue of the mini-setups with limited plane sets they run each week.  I know that some can argue the various reasons why the AvA is under utilized but they can't not argue the fact that the limited plane sets are a factor in not drawing the crowds in.  There is a reason why the LW arenas are the most populated arenas and the main reason is the entire planeset is available for all to use.

An RPS arena will probably generate a population size around the same size of the current AvA population, maybe at times reach levels of the MW population but it will never garner LW arena population numbers.


ack-ack
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Stalwart on October 30, 2009, 07:44:19 PM
I think I'll start flying AvA.  That was fun in years past.

Dale himself may have said there will never be an RPS in AH.  That's fine it's his game and his business.  That doesn't mean that the three of us here, and the unknown number we represent, who indicate that we like the RPS model are wrong for liking it.  We can and have on several occasions articulated the reasons we like it.  That doesn't mean we want to "make people fly our way" or "take away other people's choices" or have an RPS "forced upon them".

I would like to fly in an RPS model arena.  There's nothing sinister in that.  There's nothing invalid in my preference.  My likings neither force anyone to do anything not restricts anyone.  If there were and RPS arena, I would fly it.  That's all.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Stalwart on November 01, 2009, 06:04:44 PM
The last four times I've logged in I've gone straight to the AvA.  In every case there were at most one other person online.    :(   That don't work at all.

I suppose an RPS arena might end up the same way.  :cry  :confused:  :rolleyes:   :lol   :)   ... over it.  :aok
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Anaxogoras on November 01, 2009, 06:18:45 PM
When are you logging on?  We had nearly 30 people on Friday night.  About 8pm EST is about the earliest it starts to pick up, but then it can go till 11pm or later.
Title: Re: Rolling plane set
Post by: Stalwart on November 02, 2009, 12:16:07 AM
Was prolly some time after midnight, central.  I'm usually not online until everyone here is in bed.

I'll check ever time I log in, and if I can mix it up and get in eariler, I'll see you there.  :aok