Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: pimpjoe on September 24, 2001, 09:59:00 PM
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(http://www.franka.clara.net/images/P38.jpg)
does this seem a little....odd to you guys?
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Nope:
(http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de/inhalt/alliiert/beute1.jpg)
How about this :)
(http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de/inhalt/alliiert/b_241.jpg)
[ 09-24-2001: Message edited by: brady ]
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where did stuff like this come from?....still kinda new to WWII history
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http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de/index.shtml (http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de/index.shtml)
That is my favorate German sight.
These were more than likely planes that were shot down, crashed, or landed by mistake in German tertiority, they were painted in German collors and used for test and evaulation, clandistane, or whatever atacks. thier was a case with a P38 flow by an Italian piolet who got a bunch of kills aganst us in the med,Some B 17's(and i think B24's) were used by the Germans to sneak into US formations as straglers, they would link up and get in formation and thean Hose the heck outa the nearby planes.
[ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: brady ]
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the picture i got came out of an american website though......the 357th fighter group or something like that.hmmm....maybe its one they recovered.
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is this not the ugliest plane you ever saw?
(http://www.unsere-luftwaffe.de/inhalt/alliiert/rus_3.jpg)
[ 09-25-2001: Message edited by: pimpjoe ]
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German used almost every kind of Allied aircraft : Spits, Hurri, Typhie, Tempest, B-17, B-24, P-51, P-47, Yaks, Mig, La-5, I-16 and dozens more.
If you are interested in history of a particular aircraft contact me i may be able to help you.
Btw the Story of the P-38 shooting down B-17 and B-24 is just a myth...
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The Germans had a unit which flew allied aircraft from air base to air base, teaching their pilots about the Allied planes. The performance and vulnerable locations for example. Dunno if they flew any operational missions where their goal was to engage the enemy.
The undersides of the planes were painted yellow to help recognition. I think IN ACTION or some other booklet series had one about these planes.
// fats
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Originally posted by pimpjoe:
does this seem a little....odd to you guys?
Yes, elevator should be bent, broken and falling, under that guy's weight :D
Cheers,
Pepe
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Circus Rozarius was only used for demonstrating aircraft to operational units so that they got acquainted with their ennemies' aircraft. Another well known unit operating captured type was the KG 200 which used them for clandestine operations as well as some offensive actions. Note that it was usual on the east front that front line units capturing aircraft used them rather than sending them back to Rechlin for evaluation. Most of the time it resulted in few Russian planes available for evaluation.
There are two Squadron signals books dealing with captured aircraft, they are nanes "Strangers in a Strange Land", volume one deals with US aircraft in German service while the second volumes deals with the aircraft captured by the Swiss.
The yellow paint was not standard on all aircraft, it depended on who used them.
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Even if it performed badly during testing, this one remain a favorite of mine :
(http://server2045.virtualave.net/butch2k/pictures/aviation/quiz/quiz10.jpg)
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Hi Butch2k,
the DB605-engined Spitfire really is a highly remarkable aircraft!
Do you happen to know more about the tests? From what I've heard, the idea behind the conversion was to establish the efficiency of the Spitfire's cooling system - with disappointing results it seems, but I don't know any details.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
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Yes i have some data about this aircraft, not much actually because there were serious problems in cooling the engine...
For test purpose the take-off weight of the modified aircraft was only 2730Kg since weapons and radios had been removed.
Due to oil temperature problems the hybrid max speed was 490Km/h at sea level. Moreover climb speed tests had to be stopped at 3000m due to rising oil temperature.
I have more detailled data somewhere, but i'm unable to remember i which book or file it is. I had a copy of this data on my hardrive for quick reference, but since it crashed pityfully last week i lost most of my reference material. I will have to search my big library to find it back...
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There were some LW squadrons that flew captured airplanes in combat, mostly bombber squadrons I belive, pretty cool IMO :)
That ugly plane, is an I-15, right?
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In "Into the Wild Blue" by Ambrose, he tells the story of a group of 15th AF B-24's whose CO noticed a strange B-24 flying in the formation. He didn't recognize it and became suspicious. So he told all the gunners in the formation to aim at it. When the pilot saw the turrets training on him, they broke formation and headed for the clouds.
Ambrose never said for sure if it was a German-captured -24, but said that these things happened.
A really good book btw.
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Btw the Story of the P-38 shooting down B-17 and B-24 is just a myth...
No, this is a true story. But only one B-17 was ever shot down.
"It happen in 1943, a P-38G flown by an inexperienced pilot landed by mistake at Capoterra airfield in Italy on the 12 of June 1943. The P-38 was transferred to the Regia Aeronautica's Test and Research Center at Guidonia. COL Tondi developed a plan to use the captured P-38 to intercept and destroy American bombers enroute to targets in Italy. The P-38G was in Italian national insignia and markings. On 11 Aug. 1943 COL tondi, with an escort of Macchi 202's, took off on the first mission. They felt that with the P-38 he would be able to close in on the bombers before his identity was discovered. A formation of Twelfth Air Force B-17's was spotted and Tondi attacked. A firing pass from the 5 o'clock position sent machine gun bullets and cannon shells into the starboard side of the last B-17. Two 20MM shells exploded inside the cockpit killing the co-pilot and starting a fire in the instrument panel. The 17 crashed in the sea near Torvajanica and the survivors took to their life rafts, being rescued the following day by a PBY. The crew reported to the startled Group Intelligence officer that they had been shot down by a rogue P-38. Warnings were immediately issued to the 12th Air Force Bomber Groups to be on the alert for a lone P-38. Any such aircraft approaching their formation was to be fired on. Fighter escort Groups issued instructions to P-38 Squadrons that fighters separated from their formations were to cease the practice of joining on bomber formations until the matter fo the rogue P-38 was resolver.
The Italian P-38 was used on several occasions to conduct further attacks on Allied bombers, but COL Tondi was unable to gain another victory with his Trojan P-38G. The use of lower octane Italian fuel eventually caused serious damage to the lighting's engine's finally grounding the P-38G. Tondi's single kill remains the only documented case of a captured American fighter flown by an enemy shooting down an American bomber."
This is word for word out of the Book: "Strangers In A Strange Land" by Hans-Heiri Stapfer. Squadron/signal publications.
Yes it did happen, but only one bomber was ever shoot down.
Jag 34 Dover Dawgs.
[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: Jag34 ]
[ 10-02-2001: Message edited by: Jag34 ]
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If you check the US losses for that day, you'll find that no B-17 was ever shot down in this area. This Story like many others are long lived but are not based on any facts. Stapfler just wrote this story without checking it first ;)
If you still do not believe me i suggest you ask Ferdinando D'Amico on the 12OCH forums, he is one of the greatest expert on the regia Aeronautica.
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Hey Butch2k, here are some of the links on this story. Some are short and some tell more. http://members.aol.com/dheitm8612/capture.htm (http://members.aol.com/dheitm8612/capture.htm) http://vectorsite.tripod.com/avp38.html (http://vectorsite.tripod.com/avp38.html) This one, you have to go close to the buttom of the page. Its only a small Pargraph.
This is all I have time for right now. But I will get more.
Jag34
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Hey Butch2k, I can't find anything on the link.
Jag34