Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: BlauK on November 03, 2009, 12:47:37 PM
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Something new cooking... http://www.thrustmaster.com/
Only some slogans at front page though :( Has anyone seen any rumors or pics or specs anywhere?
I am currently considering a new stick for Win7, since I have understood that my trusty old MS Sidewinder2 FFB will not work anymore with it. At least its forces may not work. Thus been thinking about Logitech G940. Just wondering a lot, if this Warthog would be worth waiting :)
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Ive heard mixed things about the G940..the dual throttle looks cool though.As for the warthog,I saw the pics too and cant find anything about it. Im on a x52 now and was thinking about a cougar..I might wait for this hog thing to come out :cool:
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If it looks like this, I think I'll stick to my X-52
(http://i364.photobucket.com/albums/oo82/bzavasnik/CockpitA-10.jpg)
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Mine got in a few record books.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/w-hog.jpg)
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:O
So it's not a stick, but an ugly YOKE???? Perfect for them P-38:s, right ;)
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hall sensor cougar would be cool.
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Supposed to be a massive upgrade on the Cougar lineage from what I can gather through a few contacts I have made over the years.
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Mine got in a few record books.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/w-hog.jpg)
I guess his Hakuna Matata days are over
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CH is also working on an A10 HOTAS type system to follow their new military line of controllers as well.
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CH is also working on an A10 HOTAS type system to follow their new military line of controllers as well.
Sounds interesting.
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hmm
VISTA, California (October 28, 2009) – CH Products, LLC (www.chproducts.com) today announces new High Fidelity Controllers for Military Desktop Simulation applications. Products in development for winter 2009 include the A-10C HOTAS and Reaper GCS Console.
The A-10C HOTAS offers a one-for one split throttle and stick. The Reaper GCS Console is an all inclusive, affordable desktop training simulator and is designed to meet the training needs of the Department of Defense and Department of Homeland Security.
Both high fidelity solutions feature industrial grade components, driverless USB connectivity, and award-winning reliability. CH Products can meet or exceed your expectations in Cost, Schedule and Performance.
CH Products is proud to demonstrate, along with The Fighter Collection’s A-10C version of “The Battle Simulator”, at the Interservice/Industry Training, Simulation and Education Conference (http://www.iitsec.org/) in Orlando, Florida from Nov 30 – Dec 03, 2009. BOOTH 2819.
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Posted over on the ubisoft IL2 forums:
What it has:
Unique Replica of the A-10C Aircraft Controller
Replica JOYSTICK:
- H.E.A.R.T™ HallEffect AccuRate Technology: 3D magnetic sensors (Hall Effect) on the stick:
enjoy surgical precision that stays razor-sharp over time, 16-bit resolution (65536 x 65536
values)
- USB connection with upgradeable firmware
- Super-stable, weighted base (over 3kg)
- New detachable handle, crafted entirely of metal: also compatible with HOTAS COUGAR
handle (and vice-versa) , new replica shape, detachable metal plate for desk- or cockpit-style
use , new, realistic pressure on buttons and trigger and 19 action buttons in total + one
8-way “point of view” hat.
Replica THROTTLES:
- H.E.A.R.T™ HallEffect AccuRate Technology: 3D magnetic sensors (Hall Effect) on the 2
throttles: enjoy surgical precision that stays razor-sharp over time, 14-bit resolution (16384
values) on each throttle
- USB connection with upgradeable firmware
- Dual throttles, featuring: metal hand rest, locking system, adjustable friction system with no
dead zones, realistic pressure on buttons and switches and 7 action buttons in total + 1
mouse hat.
Replica CONTROL PANEL:
- Weighted base (over 3kg) incorporated underneath the throttles
- Backlit functions
- 5 large, programmable LEDs
- Realistic pressure on buttons and switches
- 13 action buttons in total + 1 TRIM wheel.
(http://212.79.236.69/newfiles/product/50/97/509767.jpg)
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JESUS!
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<insert drooling smiley>
That sure is purdy.
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So with hall sensors you have no wear and tear, no degradation of performance ever, right?
Question is: How much $$$ will it cost?
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Supposed to be in the same ball park as the other recently released setups. My guess is somewhere in the $300-$400 range. Hall Sensors are kick butt for what they do and I have not had any degradation in my HS kit in my modified RCS pedals. That kit was installed almost 4 years ago.
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I wonder how it's internals will compare to an Uber NXT Cougar? Or if I can use that throttle with my Cougar stick?
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From what I understand it is a USB connector so you will not be able to use your Cougar. From some early information that has leaked out onto the proverbial grapevine so to speak it is a nice movement and is better than the NXT gimbals.
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16-bit resolution (65536 x 65536 values)
One thing that always bothers me about the CH Fighterstick is that it only uses 256 values to describe each axis (that's 8 bit). If its anything like every other device that's been improved from 8 bit to 16 bit over the past 30 years, this will be a welcome and noticeable improvement.
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One thing that always bothers me about the CH Fighterstick is that it only uses 256 values to describe each axis (that's 8 bit). If its anything like every other device that's been improved from 8 bit to 16 bit over the past 30 years, this will be a welcome and noticeable improvement.
Absolutely - that's one thing I hated most about going to the CH Fighter gear from my modded MS FF2.
<S>
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Release date is 5/19/2010 according to the Thrustmaster website now and a retail price of...
Authentication confirmed of acquisition parameters at €399 following the prescribed plan of action.
As I posted just a minute ago on simhq.com €399...That comes to around 505.340 USD based on todays exchange rate listed on XE.com.
This makes it a no go for me based on lack of information and the price alone at this time.
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I use a MS FFB2 and use Win7 Pro 64bit and have all the forces no problem
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I use a MS FFB2 and use Win7 Pro 64bit and have all the forces no problem
Force Feedback has nothing to do with this one buddy. I think you got mixed up on the one you were clicking on.
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WOW a very cool new toy! I thought Thrustmaster was done - they have been pretty much off the radar for quite a while, now we know why.
cactus-yeh, I was wondering the same thing...modded uber NXT Cougar go in on 4 yrs now, but sure would love that throttle setup.
Looks like TM finally got a clue and replaced the crap gymbal-pot system they were using - something serious gamers were doing to their Cougars almost immediately. (A game like AH will wear the oem stuff out in 6 months or less.) :joystick:
An NXT mod + Hall sensors + original HOTAS although a thing of beauty when complete, could cost somewhere around $700 -- kind of psychotic if ya stop to think about, but then again that's what "justification" is for.
From the preliminary pricing it looks like TM is shooting for ~ $ 200 less than that figure. I guess they figure enough people spent considerably more to mod the original Cougar, so they will pay $500 for it in the box with all the goodies. Makes sense but a lot of (relatively sane) people would balk at that number??
Interestingly, looking at that picture, I think they eliminated the entire gymbal system (which would be a good thing) or miniaturized it to fit in that tiny base..there can't be any springs in there either...hmmmm wonder how they engineered the resistance in and got 360 degree ROM and 2 Hall sensors in there??
I guess I could spend $500 to find out, but that's just crazy talk!! :rolleyes:
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Me wants.....
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Interestingly, looking at that picture, I think they eliminated the entire gymbal system (which would be a good thing) or miniaturized it to fit in that tiny base..there can't be any springs in there either...hmmmm wonder how they engineered the resistance in and got 360 degree ROM and 2 Hall sensors in there??
Check out this thread and you will see the insides that make up the HEART technology that TM is so proud of.
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2994817/Idea_for_modding_a_Cougar_just.html#Post2994817
As I said at Simhq.com...right now this one is a no go for me. I just can't justify $500+ USD for ONE something to play games with. It was hard enough the first time around with the stock Cougar which is just fine for me. I will wait and see how this one performs once it comes out instead of jumping on the bandwagon immediately.
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Force Feedback has nothing to do with this one buddy. I think you got mixed up on the one you were clicking on.
He was responding to the OP.
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Check out this thread and you will see the insides that make up the HEART technology that TM is so proud of.
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2994817/Idea_for_modding_a_Cougar_just.html#Post2994817
As I said at Simhq.com...right now this one is a no go for me. I just can't justify $500+ USD for ONE something to play games with. It was hard enough the first time around with the stock Cougar which is just fine for me. I will wait and see how this one performs once it comes out instead of jumping on the bandwagon immediately.
very interesting. Actually looks pretty crappo - thought for a second there that TM finally figured out to put quality inside as well as outside but I guess not..umm, no thanks I'll stick with NXT which, btw is exceptional. Ian's workmanship and materials are excellent although expensive, but you get your money's worth and he is a stand up guy - you need anything, he is right there!
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Does anyone have a picture of the front of the throttle? As it stands, that looks like an awful lot of buttons in pretty useless places...
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It is supposedly copied almost 100% from the A-10 throttle box area.
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$587 USD (399 BPD)
Yikes.
http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=205&PlatformID=5 (http://www.thrustmaster.com/product.aspx?ProductID=205&PlatformID=5)
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If it's as promising as it looks, it would be worth it (for some of us.) I mean, honestly, I can only imagine just how much more enjoyable that half hour to 45 minutes of flying per month I've been managing would be if I had a better joystick? :D
(Joking aside) I would upgrade if it follows through on the promise of quality that seems to be a possibility.
<S>
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I'm sure as hell not going to be the first person to take the plundge with that sort of pricing.
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I'm sure as hell not going to be the first person to take the plundge with that sort of pricing.
QFT+1
Word that has slipped through is that price of 399 Euros is going to be the same across the board. So 399 GBP and 399 USD which makes it a little more palatable for me.
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WTF, 399 Eur = £329
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Given the track record of the Thrustmaster, Saitek, Suncom, and Logitech controllers I have owned, it might be a good time to switch to CH. I do like the heavy spring of my Cougar though, and would think hard about the Warthog HOTAS at $399.
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I ordered the CH setup a while back, and was very disappointed. I used to own a CH rig back in the day, and it was rock solid.
But the CH stick I bought two years ago had so much slop in the fitting of the pot that it would not return to center, and was like trying to drive a car with a loose steering wheel.
I contacted customer support several times, and never heard back at all, even to this day. Calling them just meant being put on perpetual hold.
I found a website to mod it to fix the problem which I never should have had to do in the first place, IMO. It voided my warranty as well, but what use is a warranty from a company that won't honor it? I also found it interesting that this problem was common enough to support a modding page for it.
I replaced it with a Cougar, which for me has worked perfectly right out of the box. Two years with the cougar, and it still flies the same as it did new, if not a little better for having been broken in a bit. I have been seriously thinking about the mod kit for it, but have been holding off to see how the Warthog works out, as I like the setup of the throttle (and being a big A-10 fan doesn't hurt either). The stick itself looks to be laid out the same, or close enough.
I have already been banking points with the wife for when the Warthog comes out, but if the reviews are bad, will likely just go for the Nxt kit if it is still available.
Wait-and-see mode for now.
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I found a website to mod it to fix the problem which I never should have had to do in the first place, IMO. It voided my warranty as well, but what use is a warranty from a company that won't honor it? I also found it interesting that this problem was common enough to support a modding page for it.
Do you happen to have that link in hand still?
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When does the Warthog go on sale?
Where can you buy it?
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I do like the heavy spring of my Cougar though, and would think hard about the Warthog HOTAS at $399.
According to the folks at CH, they have no plans of releasing a dual throttle joystick of any kind this year.
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According to the folks at CH, they have no plans of releasing a dual throttle joystick of any kind this year.
How about with 12 or 16 bit precision on the X-Y axis?
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Do you happen to have that link in hand still?
Had to go look it up, it's been a few years. I couldn't find the more detailed page, but I did find the original page where it is included in with some other mods. It was later expanded due to so many requests, but at the time I saw no need to archive it >shrug< http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?4292-Russian-way-%28new-FS-user%29&highlight=condoms
Here is one of the original complaint threads, I found it pretty interesting that one of the responses is from Bob Church trying to gloss it over with a BS post about differences in calibration readouts etc. The slop in mine was not a couple of points, and you can see from some responses I was not alone. Simply unacceptable for a stick in this price range, and CH obviously was not responding to others as well.
http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?4734-New-Fighterstick-doesn-t-center-consistently
I don't know if they ever fixed this problem, and I doubt it since they spent more time trying to CYA than make it right for those of us who got the bad sticks.
Either way I will never buy a CH product again.
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So with hall sensors you have no wear and tear, no degradation of performance ever, right?
Question is: How much $$$ will it cost?
its crap i have the T160000M and after six months i have to recalibrate in windows and the game every time i log on. i just bought a new Saitek that does not even work and Saitek is giving me crap about it. saying i am the one that broke it. i gave them a copy of the store receipt that i had and still nothing. now that i spent 70-80 dollars on a stick that does not work i don't know what to buy anymore.
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When does the Warthog go on sale?
Where can you buy it?
No idea to both of those questions Delirium since they had previously announced more information on the 19th of May...That just meant we saw an updated Flash graphic on the website with more pictures but nothing else. I expect we will hear something during E3 starting tomorrow.
Check this thread for the most up to date information based on what happens @ E3. http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3030718/1.html
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Had to go look it up, it's been a few years. I couldn't find the more detailed page, but I did find the original page where it is included in with some other mods. It was later expanded due to so many requests, but at the time I saw no need to archive it >shrug< http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?4292-Russian-way-%28new-FS-user%29&highlight=condoms
Here is one of the original complaint threads, I found it pretty interesting that one of the responses is from Bob Church trying to gloss it over with a BS post about differences in calibration readouts etc. The slop in mine was not a couple of points, and you can see from some responses I was not alone. Simply unacceptable for a stick in this price range, and CH obviously was not responding to others as well.
http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?4734-New-Fighterstick-doesn-t-center-consistently
I don't know if they ever fixed this problem, and I doubt it since they spent more time trying to CYA than make it right for those of us who got the bad sticks.
Either way I will never buy a CH product again.
Thank you for taking the time for me Blackwulf! :salute
I've had CH stick since 1996 and the gameport sticks were fine but both of these USB Combatsticks I've had have had this problem. I sent the first one in for warranty and got a new one to replace it but it had the exact same problem. So I concluded that it must be "a feature". :rolleyes: I'm about to tear the stick open anyway to replace a hat switch and do some miscellaneous maintanence/mods. So I'll see what I can do about this.
Once again, thanks for the links!
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UPDATED INFORMATION from E3 on the TM Warthog.
Too much to post here but they have a new programming software that is out with this as well. Things are looking good in TM fan land...until we know the complete story this is what we have.
http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3032727.html#Post3032727
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Great article but I would have preferred to read about how it 'felt' in all axes, vs. watching videos of someone moving the controls and NOT saying boo about the action of each axis.
As for the $ amount, I'm always amused to read about sticker shock in this hobby. I have a 7 year old Cougar that I modded with Halls and a new gimbal system so it's a lot more expensive than the stock version, which 7 years ago, was 250 USD. I have spent WAY MORE than the predicted price of the Warthog in the last seven years on video cards, RAM, mobos, displays, TrackIR, the list goes on.
If this new HOTAS lasts as long as my Cougar has and does all the stuff it's supposed to then spending 400-odd bucks ONCE is a steal compared to the endless expense of upgrading other computer hardware components.
Good, Quick, Cheap.
Choose any two.
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Great article but I would have preferred to read about how it 'felt' in all axes, vs. watching videos of someone moving the controls and NOT saying boo about the action of each axis.
As for the $ amount, I'm always amused to read about sticker shock in this hobby. I have a 7 year old Cougar that I modded with Halls and a new gimbal system so it's a lot more expensive than the stock version, which 7 years ago, was 250 USD. I have spent WAY MORE than the predicted price of the Warthog in the last seven years on video cards, RAM, mobos, displays, TrackIR, the list goes on.
If this new HOTAS lasts as long as my Cougar has and does all the stuff it's supposed to then spending 400-odd bucks ONCE is a steal compared to the endless expense of upgrading other computer hardware components.
Good, Quick, Cheap.
Choose any two.
That's the key point for me jocko. I don't want to spend the money that I have subsequently spent on my Cougar to upgrade another stick to working at least as good as I would have expected the Cougar to for the money I spent when I bought it way back when. I have probably spent at least 2 times the amount I initially spent on my Cougar with mods, fixes and repairs out of MY pocket. It worked great for a while before getting to the point it just wouldn't work as well with flight in general for small changes in direction. SO we shall see what the SimHQ guys say when they get their review sample. $400 USD is right on the verge of that too much outlay of cash for an expected return on fun factor for me in a controller WITHOUT rudder pedals.
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Whereas I feel that $400 is likely to be on the cusp of being too little money to manufacturer and market a product of sufficient quality that I'd be interested in changing to it (and that's without rudder pedals in the mix).
I agree with you though on the sentiment - to get a "what they expected in the first place" Cougar, many folks have spent upwards of $750 (some more) on it, including the original purchase - and had to do the work themselves along with assuming the associated risk of damaging an already moderately expensive investment. I in no way want to end up in that boat.
I hope it's in the neighborhood of $400-500 at a minimum, since any less and I don't see how it can be of the quality I'm hoping for.
But like everyone else, I guess I'll just keep on waiting to see.
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Since the throttle has it's own USB plug it would be nice if they sold the throttle separately as well as in a set with the stick.
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Thought it would be appropriate to make a new thread about my experience with the Warthog so far
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,291234.0.html