Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mano on November 04, 2009, 11:06:31 PM
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Online Flight Sims of course :airplane:
I have flown in the following:
Red Baron (on INN)
Flying Circus
Red Baron II
Dawn of Aces ( 2 and III )
Richthofen's Skies
I'm looking forward to flying in the new Aces High Arena.
<S>
Mano :old:
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Flew DoA as Addman up till about 12 months ago
:old: :cheers:
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Well I've got 2 two hours logged in a de Havilland Tiger Moth, about as close as I got to a WW1 plane.
GF was all "artsy" and took all the photo's at Rhinebeck in black and white, LOL!
(http://332nd.org/dogs/baumer/BBS%20Stuff/TigerMoth.jpg)
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ofmysx }i{
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What no scarf??? :headscratch: :bolt:
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I flew a little bit of WW1 on Air Warrior 3.
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Flying Circus, Red Baron II, DOA from opening till 2000 when I switched over to AH.
Since then not much other than some time in First Eagles last spring.
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Same as you Mano, with the exception of the IEN DOA's after Hitech left, and of course I have Rise of Flight, and Over Flanders Field
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I remember Red Baron and getting my butt shot off in DOA. Other than that its basically look at the pretty planes.
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and Over Flanders Field
How good is Over Flanders Field?
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Red Baron, DOA (both versions), First Eagles.
And IRL, doing the Wayne's World 'Im not worthy!' cowtow to a SPAD XIII and an Albatros D.Va at the last airshow I went to.
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How good is Over Flanders Field?
Well they have done a good job of rewriting CFS3, but it is still limited by that original game that it is overlaid on. Like all fly at home games the AI is rediculous as to what it can do (it is not subject to the same physics as the player).
All in all it can be fun but they have programmed it to the point where if your pilot lives longer than 17 hours of flying time he will be subject to more and more "hoaky stuff" till he dies :t
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I played DOA during the free beta period.
as with confirmed kill / warbirds, I couldnt afford it at the time when it went live.
Oh and if the combat area in sublogic Flight simlulator 2 for the C64 counts.. that too :)
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I cooked a Red Barron pizza, does that count?
(http://stevegarufi.com/mexicanpizza1.jpg)
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How many out there have experience with WWI a/c
oh you know, I flew in WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Granada, Panama, Libya, Kosovo & Iraq, oh yeah, I'm really 112 years old too :D
And ho'ing is a legit way to get kills in the MA and esp in the DA, and if you don't agree with me.. well I'm a real pilot who flew in every US war in the 20th century, so I'm right! Almost forgot, AH is WAR, not a game... :D
On a more serious note, Red Baron was a rad game for its time (it came out in the late '80s/early '90s right?).
:salute
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I cooked a Red Barron pizza, does that count?
(http://stevegarufi.com/mexicanpizza1.jpg)
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Played the original Red Baron to death, didn't much care for the sequel. I didn't like DoA either.
I tried the RoF demo and was impressed, even if it has a ways to go before its offline and online play are robust.
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Microprose's "Knights of the Sky" ....an awesome game! ....I sure miss it.
Helm ...out
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Knights of the Sky, Red Baron, Targetware and Dawn of Aces; all three versions of the last, from flickering 2D to the 'Flyboys' crap (surely the worst-ever so-called update of any flight sim).
Favourite ride: RAF SE5a
Favourite two-seater: Bristol F2B Fighter
:cool:
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Well lets see. Casting my mind back:
The Camel on Sublogic Flight Simulator
Knights of the Sky: Honest effort, not terribly good results.
Red Baron: The mission editor was truly impressive. An instant classic. Played it to death.
WWI Arena on Airwarrior DOS: First taste of online air combat. What more can I say?
DoA: Solid. Played for years. Led squadron, CMed, the works.
Target Flanders (Targetware): Tragic.
AH WWI: Soon :)
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Red Baron and DOA
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Target Flanders
Dawn of Aces (during late 90's)
Flying Circus
A small amount of these long ago:
Red Baron I
Knights of the Sky (Amiga 500)
Wings (Amiga 500)
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Red Barron on INN
Red Barron II and 3D
DOA
Over Flanders Fields
:salute
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Red Baron on the Amiga and some DOA here and there. I've tried Targetware's RS mod as well. DVa my ride of choice.
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I flew a little bit of WW1 on Air Warrior 3.
That was SUCH a stupid flight model....going fast was the LAST thing that would win you a fight---the most successful sticks manged to stay just above stall and turn so sharply that the plane would seem to tumble end over end...I finally quit going to that arena
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I tried Fly Boys out for about a week. Just fighting drones in there. It was not an Aces High type game.
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I'm a newb flying Aces High 9 Months, only experience I got. I'm truly an addicted cartoon flyer now though :cheers:
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Played that Atari arcade game "Red Baron" (which you can actually play over at http://games.atari.com/arcade.php?game=redbaron) and put many quarters into it. I think I also played the WWI Ace portion of the original flight simulator wayyy back in the day when enemy planes were just pixels. On the PC, played Red Baron, Red Baron II, Red Baron 3D, DoA 2.75, DoA III, the WWI mod for SDOE and some of the WWI planes in Ysflight and had high hopes for Targetware's stuff but after my PC died and I got a new one with Vista, I couldn't get any of the of uploads to install properly so I just gave up on it. I'm looking forward to flying the WWI in Aces High so I can suck at something else besides WWII stuff although I'm a little puzzled by the choice of planes for the initial set...why the Dr. I? It wasn't that numerically significant. Oh well.
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why the Dr. I? It wasn't that numerically significant. Oh well.
Indeed. I think there's currently more replicas in the air than there were originals. But everyone wants the 'Red Baron's Plane'.
Despite the fact that he scored most of his kills in the Albatros series... :rolleyes:
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Indeed. I think there's currently more replicas in the air than there were originals. But everyone wants the 'Red Baron's Plane'.
Despite the fact that he scored most of his kills in the Albatros series... :rolleyes:
The Dr1 is a viable furballer to counter the F1. Unless HTC actually gives us some nasty bullet dispersion and a difficult-to-fly Camel, the D.VII won't be the equal of the F1 because all of the fights will be on the deck. This is how it was with the original DoA, but I'm hoping things will be different this time.
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Yes I found DoA to be a 2 horse race between the DR1 and the F1, the camel was marginaly better because its wings stayed on longer.
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The F1 and Dr1 are popular in almost all WWI sims.....or at least all the ones I have tried, with the
exception of RoF as I have not purchased the keys yet. :D
I'm really curious what the terrain will be like ........ if there will be a strategy or simply furball fighting initially. The F2b was
an excellent bomber and a very good fighter. Will other players be able to attach to man the gunners position?
:airplane:
Mano
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There's no doubt that the F1 was a fantastic dogfighter in experienced hands, but it was also a noob killer (same is true of Dr1 to a lesser extent). I am yet to see a sim where it is not the noob ride of choice, but haven't tried the F1 in RoF yet. However, I did read a funny description of an F1 pilot flat spinning in a dogfight in RoF, so maybe they got it right...
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I don't believe anyone will be able to model the rotary engine. The physics equation is just way too complicated.
You have an engine that weighs between 300 and 500 pounds (Bently, Le Rhone, Oberursel, Clegert, ect) turning
between 1200 and 1600 rpms. Allot of folks don't realize that the entire engine was turning.
The Rotary Engine is a flying Gyroscope that is very very difficult to control. It turns well to the right,
but resists turning to the left. Another characteristic is being very tail heavy. RoF does
have torque modeled in their sim, but Rotary Engines is beyond even their flight sim engine.
The Camel and Dr1 had a very short fuselage in comparison to other planes of that era. If they had
been given a longer fuselage like the Sopwith Snipe,the Nieuport 28, or even the
Siemen-Schukert there would not have had so many fatalities.
Almost as many Camel drivers were killed landing and taking off as were actually killed in combat.
Both planes were both very unstable and extremely dangerous to fly. The engines also ran at full throttle.
<S>
Mano
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RoF does
have torque modeled in their sim, but Rotary Engines is beyond even their flight sim engine.
I'm not so sure about that. Some people who lack rudder pedals have complained about not being able to turn the Dr1 to the left. Others have resorted to blipping the engine momentarily to turn left with the Dr1/F1.
Screw it, now I'm going to have to buy them to report back. :D
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Edit:
Bought the F1. Here are my impressions:
Extremely unstable in the pitch axis. There is a constant nose up tendency for which you have to compensate with elevator input (true with all WW1 fighters, but in the F1 it is extreme). Careless elevator input causes wild oscillation.
Roll rate is good, but not as good as you might expect for having ailerons on the top and bottom wings. The Albatros DV seems to roll better.
I find that to initiate a left hand turn at low speed, full rudder deflection is required (don't fly the F1 without pedals). It does have a tendency to spin more than the other aircraft, but not so much as to be a real threat if you are on top of the controls. Spin recovery seems easier than in the hapless Nieuport 28.
Anyway, those are some initial impressions. Did I mention that its turn rate is fantastic? :) The addition of combat trim will make a twitchy, difficult to fly plane much more docile.
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Flying the F1 some more, but this time at high altitude: the difference cannot be overstated. It spins, it tumbles, it's almost a worthless fighter above 12k ft. The feeling of inferiority vs. the D.VII is very acute. :uhoh
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The Fokker D.VII used a much thicker air foil (fatter wings) and that solved the problem for high alt flying. Camel had very thin airfoil and was much better suited
to low alt fighting.
<S>
Mano
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The Spad XIII is supposed to have thin wings as well, but it seems very capable at altitude.
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Air Warrior III, I just remember there was usually a couple guys in there who could destroy me, so I rarely visited.
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SubLogic Flight Simulator (Commodore 64 :D ), Ace of Aces (Commodore 64 :D ) Brief bit of Air Warrior, not enough to really count. Yes, I'm an 80's child.
EDIT: forgot Aces of Aces is not WW1.
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Mano only 334 camel pilots were killed in "noncombat" accidents of the 1400 plus lost suring the war so it had a bad rep but not as bad as some made it out to be.
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Mano only 334 camel pilots were killed in "noncombat" accidents of the 1400 plus lost suring the war so it had a bad rep but not as bad as some made it out to be.
24% of deaths being non-combat related isn't cause for concern? :huh :lol
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good article from wikipedia
Intended as a replacement for the Sopwith Pup,[1] the Camel prototype first flew on 22 December 1916, powered by a 110 hp Clerget 9Z. Known as the "Big Pup" early on in its development, the biplane design was evolutionary more than revolutionary, featuring a box-like fuselage structure, the design also used a aluminium engine cowling, plywood-covered panels around the cockpit, and fabric-covered fuselage, wings and tail. The two .303 in (7.7 mm) Vickers machine guns mounted directly in front of the cockpit, fired forward through the propeller disc with the fairing over the gun breeches creating a "hump" that led to the name Camel.[1] The bottom wing had dihedral but not the top, so that the gap between the wings was less at the tips than at the roots. Approximately 5,490 units were ultimately produced.[2]
Unlike the preceding Pup and Triplane, the Camel was not considered pleasant to fly. The Camel owed both its extreme manoeuvrability and its difficult handling characteristics to grouping the engine, pilot, guns and fuel tank within the first seven feet of the aircraft, coupled with the strong gyroscopic effect of the rotary engine. The Camel soon gained an unfortunate reputation with student pilots. The Clerget engine was particularly sensitive to fuel mixture control, and incorrect settings often caused the engine to choke and cut out during takeoff. Many crashed due to mishandling on takeoff when a full fuel tank affected the center of gravity. In level flight, the Camel was markedly tail-heavy. Unlike the Triplane, the Camel lacked a variable incidence tailplane, so that the pilot had to apply constant forward pressure on the control stick to maintain a level attitude at low altitude. However the machine could also be rigged in such a way that at higher altitudes it could be flown "hands off." A stall immediately resulted in a spin and the Camel was particularly noted for its vicious spinning characteristics.
The type entered squadron service in June 1917 with No. 4 Squadron of the Royal Naval Air Service, near Dunkirk. The following month, it became operational with No. 70 Squadron of the Royal Flying Corps. By February 1918, 13 squadrons were fully equipped with the Camel.
The Camel proved to be a superlative fighter, and offered heavier armament and better performance than the Pup and Triplane. In the hands of an experienced pilot, its manoeuvrability was unmatched by any contemporary type. Its controls were light and sensitive. The Camel turned rather slowly to the left which resulted in a nose up attitude due to the torque of the rotary engine. But the engine torque also resulted in the ability to turn to the right in half the time of other fighters,[3] although that resulted in more of a tendency towards a nose down attitude from the turn. Because of the faster turning capability to the right, to change heading 90° to the left, many pilots preferred to do it by turning 270° to the right. Agility in combat made the Camel one of the best-remembered Allied aircraft of the First World War. It was said to offer a choice between a "wooden cross, red cross and Victoria Cross."[citation needed] Together with the S.E.5a, the Camel helped to wrest aerial superiority away from the German Albatros fighters.
Major William Barker's Sopwith Camel (serial no. B6313, the aircraft in which the majority of his victories were scored,[4]) became the most successful fighter aircraft in the history of the RAF, shooting down 46 aircraft and balloons from September 1917 to September 1918 in 404 operational hours flying. It was dismantled in October 1918. Barker kept the clock as a memento, but was asked to return it the following day.
By mid-1918 the Camel was becoming limited by its slow speed and comparatively poor performance at altitudes over 12,000 ft (3,650 m). However, it was then used as a ground-attack and infantry support aircraft. During the German offensive of March 1918, flights of Camels harassed the advancing German Army, inflicting high losses (and suffering high losses in turn) through the dropping of 25lb (11 kg) Cooper bombs and ultra-low-level strafing. The protracted development of the Camel's replacement, the Sopwith Snipe, meant that the Camel remained in service until the Armistice.
With rotary engines, the crankshaft remained fixed while the cylinders and attached propeller rotated around it. The result of this torque was a significant "pull" to the right. In the hands of an experienced pilot, this characteristic could be exploited to give exceptional manoeuvrability in a dogfight. A 3/4 turn to the right could be done in the same time as a 1/4 turn to the left.
The Gnome "mono" engines did not have throttles and were at full "throttle" while the ignition was on - they could be "throttled" with a selector switch which cut the ignition to some of the cylinders to reduce power for landing. The Clerget, Le Rhone and BR1 had throttles, although reducing power involved simultaneously adjusting the mixture and was not straightforward, so it became common during landing to "blip" the engine (turn the ignition off and on) using a control column-mounted ignition switch, the blip switch, to reduce power.
The Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sopwith_Camel)
<S>
Happy Reading,
Mano
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Camel is just a name for ships of the desert and a brand of cigarettes. Give me the SE5a every time.
:neener:
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24% of deaths being non-combat related isn't cause for concern? :huh :lol
I don't believe anyone said that, plus it was the highest scoring allied aircraft also. :neener:
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Does anyone know what the record of the Camel (and other WWI a/c) was when normalized for number of a/c that served and time that they served (although normalizing for time would probably be redundant given that it would be related to the number of a/c)?
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I don't believe anyone said that, plus it was the highest scoring allied aircraft also. :neener:
24% is the figure that corresponds to the numbers you gave. :neener:
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24% is the figure that corresponds to the numbers you gave. :neener:
Yes but I never said it wasn't cause for concern, only that it wasn't as large as many folks make it out that it was.
Not to mention that alot of those deaths came from poor carboration on one of the engines used, and not to torque. :cool:
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Does anyone know what the record of the Camel (and other WWI a/c) was when normalized for number of a/c that served and time that they served (although normalizing for time would probably be redundant given that it would be related to the number of a/c)?
It's hard to get real numbers because all the countries involved used different ways to count kills, i.e. the Brits counted OOC (out of control) as a kill while the Germans would only count a confirmed wreck (which is why the guy in the movie Blue Maxx lands and cuts off the tail number).
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Quite right, Zarkov.
It was rather harder for British pilots to confirm their victories as most of them were scored over the German side of the lines. Trenchard's policy of constant offensive and carrying the fight to the enemy cost the RFC dear, but combined with the magnificent effort of the French and Americans it ultimately won the war in the air over all fronts.
:cool:
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I cooked a Red Barron pizza, does that count?
(http://stevegarufi.com/mexicanpizza1.jpg)
OMG now i'm hungry and stuck at work.. Thanks... :furious
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I was shot down behind enemy lines and captured in a prior life. I escaped and stole a german plane and flew it to friendly lines. You may have heard about me.
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I was shot down behind enemy lines and captured in a prior life. I escaped and stole a german plane and flew it to friendly lines. You may have heard about me.
:headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch: :rolleyes:
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:headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch: :headscratch: :rolleyes:
:neener:
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Did Air Warrior I, Air Warrior II, Air Warrior 3D and Air Warrior ME. Does that count as ...... er 1 :O
Loved the Dr but honestly got my tail flamed a lot. May have to fire up an onld box and fly a few missions :)
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I flew in Red Baron II for several months. Used to be a guy in their that was unstoppable. Went by the name "Slipstream". I also remember the terrible bugs in that game. Especially the one where the plane would be a burning pixel and continue to fight and be unkillable.
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Ho ho, early Dawn of Aces had the splendid 'Wingless Fly' bug: wings burn or fall off but the victim fights on regardless and unknowing. Instead of fixing it, the owners merely scrapped the 'aircraft catches fire' part of the damage model. It was that totally negative, penny-pinching, pig-ignorant attitude that persuaded me to fly elsewhere.
:cool:
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Hiya Simba
I still have the DoA 2.7 loaded on my computer. It still does that (plane with no wings) when you fly Head to Head and it seems to happen more with the Camel than any other A/C.
As many reads and replies in this thread........there appears to be allot of interest in AH's new WWI arena. Should be fun!
<S>
Mano
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Hellooooooooo, Mano.
Wish I still had DoA 2.7 loaded, it knocked spots off the 'Flyboys' DoA III crap even with the bugs. Hope HT sees his way to incorporating the artillery function in AH WWI, with proper clock-code messaging to the guns by the spotters instead of the long-winded DoA folfarol the only change.
As you might have noticed, my signature incorporates the ol' No.6 Squadron vRFC/RAF I ended up commanding in DoA. The Black Lions shall ROOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRR R again!
:salute
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Flew WW1 A/C in AW, Targetware, and Red Baron.