Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Wotan on September 26, 2001, 03:41:00 AM
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(http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/FWcockpit1.jpg)
please :)
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I want, I want, I want, I wnat, I watn, I nwat, I wtna, I...
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ditto!
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Yup, would be great to have Historical cockpits, that's one of WB3's very few good things.
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WOW It looks so good I would spend time flying it just to druuul. :)
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Hey... Isnt that a screenshot of IL2 ;)
:D
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no i think il2 is gay
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i think your gay
il2 is the best, and its just a motha buttering demo.
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dont talk crap to me dum bass go play your gay demo..............
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Kick ass! Infighting amongst the LuftWaffles! <G>
Smack that beeyatch up Wotan! ;)
-SW
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I ain't no Luftwaffle, thats for sure.
And im not a fish.
I wonder if the military use's homosexual flight sims to train its pilots.
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ACtually its only a beta of the Demo.
Id say that when its online servers come up a few guys from here (with descent PC's) will check it out ;)
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Originally posted by pdog_109:
I ain't no Luftwaffle, thats for sure.
You like the 109.... you are a LuftWaffle.
Originally posted by pdog_109:
And im not a fish.
Okay....
Originally posted by pdog_109:
I wonder if the military use's homosexual flight sims to train its pilots.
Since when is any military using Il-2 as a trainer? Last I heard it's going to be sold as a box on the store shelves that are eye sight level for 12 year olds... that's belly level for adults.
-SW
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Not saying bout il-2, you say il2 is gay, il2 is a flightsim.
I put the 109 in my name because thats my 2nd fav plane i would fly in the game. When i saw that they actualy have the 205 :eek:
IL-2 V AH - FACTS
IL-2 gunnery - realistic, difficult
AH gunnery - easy - 12 year old
IL-2 FM - based on physics engine, demo fm is incorrct
AH - table based old
IL2 graphis - realistic, good looking
AH - bmp painted by 12 year olds
Still i fly AH a bit because the demo mp sucks in il2.
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Originally posted by pdog_109:
Not saying bout il-2, you say il2 is gay, il2 is a flightsim.
I didn't say anything, in fact it's actually a game.
Originally posted by pdog_109:
IL-2 V AH - FACTS
This should be interesting...
Originally posted by pdog_109:
IL-2 gunnery - realistic, difficult
AH gunnery - easy - 12 year old
Ah, common misconception. Difficult does not translate to more realistic. BTW, the calculations have been done time and time again and the trajectory, flight path and duration of rounds plus hitting power at ranges have all been tested and verified to be accurate.... in Aces High. Seen no data what-so-ever for Il-2.
Originally posted by pdog_109:
IL-2 FM - based on physics engine, demo fm is incorrct
AH - table based old
Do you even know what you are talking about? Just because it's 'physics' (they are both physics models, maybe you didn't take physics in high school) does not mean it's better. Pyro and HT can, and have proven, that table based flight performance can simulate real world aircraft very well. I've tested it before with someone in the TA. He took a P47D-30 and I took a 190A5. 190A5 outclimbed P47D-30 initially, at 20K the P47D-30 climbed faster. The rate of climb matched real world tests. Eerie how you can achieve damn near accurate performance with "old" things.
Originally posted by pdog_109:
IL2 graphis - realistic, good looking
AH - bmp painted by 12 year olds.
(http://dogfighter.playnet.com/images/interviews/aceshigh/010810/ah-262-2.jpg)
Those are some pretty damn talented 12 year olds. You'll find out just how bad Il-2 will perform in a 200 person multiplayer environment... no wait, *IF* it ever can host 200 people.
Originally posted by pdog_109:
Still i fly AH a bit because the demo mp sucks in il2.
And I'm sure it's going to be a whole lot better in the full release. Tell ya what, when you get the full version, tell me how good it is then. Right now it's half-baked, and I wouldn't be surprised if both the FM and MP code are only baked just a teeny weeny bit more before release. Meaning, I bet it won't be a whole lot better.
-SW
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Difficult does not translate to more realistic
EGGaxtly.
AH fm is sooooooo hard.
Oh yeah, 200 ppl all jerking off in the MA.
MA sucks big time, and not nuff people in the CT to make it of any use.
Oh AH damage model sucks
Wanna compare screenies, suree
(http://dogfighter.playnet.com/images/briefs/il2/010528/il2-9.jpg)
I'll be happy to take flame off the board.
Email me at pdog_109@hotmail.com , thats right one 0 nine
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Originally posted by pdog_109:
AH fm is sooooooo hard.
Never said it was, but it is accurate. As is WarBirds. It's hard to someone who's never played them before, but fairly easy to anyone who's played anything that is air combat focused. Or even flown a real plane.
Originally posted by pdog_109:
Oh yeah, 200 ppl all jerking off in the MA.
MA sucks big time, and not nuff people in the CT to make it of any use.
You think Il-2 will be better with 32 people jerking off on a client's machine? What world are you living in?
Originally posted by pdog_109:
Oh AH damage model sucks
They can do better, they've done a more indepth damage model before (WB, and not the current damage model either, they had to remove it). Fact of the matter is, you can't have a damn good damage model and have 200 people online. Server chokes, PC chokes, Bandwidth chokes.
Originally posted by pdog_109:
Wanna compare screenies, suree
I never said AH looked better, but it does look very good. Sure, Il-2 looks good- but with 200 people (even 32 in a good furball) will bring a good system to it's knees.
Originally posted by pdog_109:
I'll be happy to take flame off the board.
Email me at pdog_109@hotmail.com , thats right one 0 nine
This was a flame? Sweet jebus, you suck at it.
-SW
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Im not noted as a good flamer.
Why 32 in a furball.
16 player coop is muchos better.
FACT is
IL2 has gots a better fm
Fly the 109g2 in AH and fly the same plane in IL-2 - BIG DIFFERENCE, and what the finns say bout the g2 lives up to il2, not ah.
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dont hijack my thread go play gay il2.....
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Okay Wotan, I'm done. It's so easy to get "those" started up, I can't resist replying to 'em.
What are you asking here about the cockpit Wotan? For accurate gauges, layout and better detail- or just better detail?
I'm sure that when a lot more planes are added and they go back to revising stuff, a lot of these particulars will be taken care of.
I think of course..
-SW
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greater "historic accuracy" but not at the expense of future development.
I'm in a 190 squadron thus the 190 cockpit image.
More of wish/hope then a request/demand.....
to address dum bass
The AH 109g2 kicks arse it wont roll like a 190a3 like in il2 though. :rolleyes:
gunnery isnt any harder or from the data folks post on this board any more "accurate" in il2.
[ 09-29-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]
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Swulfe you said about AH FM
Never said it was, but it is accurate.
Hmmm FM where yak-9 dives 950kmh is accurate?! :) (real ones could do 750kmh with great risk of structural failure).
(btw. la-5 had 950kmh max and was one of fastest diving soviet planes)
Some ah data isnt really comparable to WW2 test data and combat experiences.
[ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: illo ]
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Strange Illo that you just recently have brought this up, because all the data I have seen on the Yak-9U (oh yeah, and make sure you differentiate between the -9U and the earlier -9 models, like the -9D) specifically say that it did NOT have the problems you describe.
Share your sources please.
And Pdog, you would rather co-op with 16 other players against computer AI than play with and against hundreds of human opponents? Hmmmm.......
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Everytime I read any reply from this pdog_109
guy,I wonder how old he is,,,,,,,,,dont you?
Sorry Wotan out of thread,but couldnt resist
,,,,,like swulfe ;) .
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Actually, IL2 is from what I hear from Oleg, will have UBIsoft servers setup with player arenas with upwards of 200 people+ cability.
IL2 will be a MMOG, and when it does,...It is going to turn out quite a response ;)
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Originally posted by highflyer:
Actually, IL2 is from what I hear from Oleg, will have UBIsoft servers setup with player arenas with upwards of 200 people+ cability.
IL2 will be a MMOG, and when it does,...It is going to turn out quite a response ;)
It's developed as 32player max server-> client. It's not developed as 200player, yet.
So it's an *IF*, not a when.
-SW
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Highflyer, Did you know I was psychic and I could see the future? ;)
I made a perfect prediction when dealing with the WWIIOL Cheerleaders and how it was going to turn out. And I'll make the same type of prediction for IL2, so here goes:
When IL2 comes out, then we will compare it apples to apples to the other sims, and see what we got. Until then, its all vaporware and poms poms. *where's Westys cheerleader graphic when you need it {sigh}*
:)
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Verm,
Highflyer = DeeZee
Any other questions? ;)
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I cant tell u the most stunning of this thread:
I read SWulfes answers and really for the very 1st time had to agree 100% with him. :D
Look at it positive, in case of an alien invasion (il2) the AH community stands up as one and defends our beloved sim.
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AH's 190s cocpit raly need a wole rework !
FabriKA6
1° Gruppo Caccia "ASSO DI BASTONI"
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to Verm.
Test data was for yak-9(d?) by VVS test department. Later models like Yak-3(late) with new metal construction were better in withstanding higher speeds, but still had problems of controls coming too heavy at high speed.
I got this info from Oleg Kirilov. His hobby is collecting ww2 aviation test data and documents. I guess he also has plenty of data for yak-9u.
I have tried to get translations of original test documents(kyrilic) from him but he has been too busy I guess.
Other sources are numerous bibliographies of finnish aces wich always describe same dinengaging method against yaks. High speed dive. Yaks rarely followed, if they did they soon leveled out. Those who followed further couldnt pull up and smashed into the ground.
I hope oleg will translate his documents. Copy of original test document is as hard as data can get, right? :D
AH yak-9u and yak-9t do 950kmh with controls still responding nicely.
[ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: illo ]
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Originally posted by Dawvgrid:
Everytime I read any reply from this pdog_109
guy,I wonder how old he is,,,,,,,,,dont you?
Sorry Wotan out of thread,but couldnt resist
,,,,,like swulfe ;) .
I wonder the same also.
Isn't calling something like IL-2 "gay" a trade mark of teens? Hmm
Yes in AH i play HUNDREDS of people at the same time. Your arguments on that are pure BS.
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Originally posted by pdog_109:
Yes in AH i play HUNDREDS of people at the same time. Your arguments on that are pure BS.
Yo no comprendo. (Spanish speakers, I'm sure I mangled that)
-SW
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Toad,
Thanks :) That explains it all.
Illo
The best published source on VVS aircraft available to the western world (in english) is Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War which was written by a Russian using the VVS archives.
While this book describes some problems similar to what you are talking about for early production Yak-1's, it specifically states that the strucutural problems were fixed in the Yak-9 and Yak-9D's. An no where can I find any descriptions of such problems with the much later Yak-9U.
I'm not saying that Oleg is wrong, its just that without seeing the documents or having Oleg in this discussion himself, I'll go with the published author at this point.
I have some original russian language documents on the Yak-9D and Yak-9U that a friend sent me, and I'll try to post them. But I believe that they deal primarily with the VK105 and VK107 engines.
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Beginning with the Yak 9M the Wings construction was changed, bakelite plywood was introduced since the fabric and plywood would come off under certain condition in the older models. The introduction of the new wing solved the problems.
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hehe you guys are just way to funny.
heres a few quotes from others that know something, or should I say,... have an opposing outlook on the issue. :)
Funny that they should use that word. I'll bet that they're all closet IL-2 lovers.
you will find idiots everywhere and in any part of life....so who cares about such rubbish ??????????????
Just leave those guys alone, they oviously have some mental flight sim related illness if they think AH is better than the IL2 DEMO.
I agree, dont react to those folks.
It always is hard to admit something is better then the thing you are addicted too, and those folks show the typical symptoms.
Only guy that bothers me is this swuffle. Seems to be a teen indeed.
Bewolf
OH yeah i remember AH.. I tried it for a bit and found it lacking. There is something definitely WRONG when you just easy back on the stick to climb from level flight and hear the stall warning go off..HAHAHA LOL
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Oberst Karl von Hess
I played AH for over a year.
I consider it most realistic of all the flightsimes out there....but it does not come even close to IL2 really.
bewolf
IL-2 is gay.....*sigh*...guess I have to tell the wife and kids I'm coming outta the closet.....
eerrr..does this mean I have to start listening to Barbra Streisand songs too?*shiver*
Its funny how each message board has those that defend thier ideas and slander all that opppose for the good of what they are used to. :D
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ey sw didn't dum bass say something about how bmp skins are crap...?
heres a post by him on that other board.....
originally posted else where pdum bass 109
To bad when i went to .tga Open With .bmp it didn't work. Why the hell a .tga file, why it can't be just a .bmp like other games?
he then goes into that thread and links this one I guess to get some cheerleaders to help him feel better about his self.
The way the Il2 demo is I dont like it i deleted from my hd. Its neither harder or in anyway better. As for the differences I wont comment on I'm not a ww2 aircraft designer. I never flew in one. All I know is the numerous "experts" have written things that are in contrast to some fm things I've seen. (109 roll etc.....)
I don't go there board spewing crap like x-plane'o'phile deez, or dum bass.
Most of those guys over there come from eaw, janes, sdoe,cfs so I can understand how il2 would seem so great. 32 players can be fun. Which is good for them play your game lets us play ours. Just dont come here spewing how great it is.
I didn't come to your board and hijack your threads and if you dont like my opinion of il2 so what how's that affect your fun?
BTW some of those guys do some kick bellybutton skins no doudt about that. Check umm out sometime
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"To bad when i went to .tga Open With .bmp it didn't work. Why the hell a .tga file, why it can't be just a .bmp like other games?"
That refers to screenshot dum bass.
Would'nt you?
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il2 net bbs (http://www.ilyushin2.net/ubb/Forum27/HTML/000008.html)
heres the link folks read it tell what you think hes talking about............
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Woton, the entire reason for your post in the first place was to put in your ideas of how you would like to see a cockpit like the you listed above being an option for Aces High.
I said simply, and jokingly to an extent... Is that an IL2 screenshot.
Now if you seriously took offese to that I dont know what to say. I truely cant even phathom your reasoning for saying somehting bad about IL2, when infact It has more of the realistically modeled cockpits in the first place. (of which the topic of this post is about)
Either accept the fact that throughout your name calling of IL2, that it does have the capibility to display graphics of wich you so seemingly desire, or sit here and keep asking if Hitech can create one like are already in IL2.
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with the 2 "great" choices you have IL2 and x-plane why come here?
my opinion of il2 was expressed right after your first post.
Go play your game.........
No one here cares what you think of AH x-plane or il2.
You and pdum bass can go "multi-play" each other till the cows come home nobody gives a fek.
Theres nothing in Ah that would prevent HTC from redoing the cockpits except time.
Why do you continually come here spouting the same crap?
If those other games are so fun go play umm..
I know when I first started ah I spent every free minute I had playing it.
fek x-plane fek il2 and fek u
I'm not going into il2 x-plane bbs hijacking threads to spread my opinion. If you have fun great but dont come here to tell me about it. I dont care............
edit
janes ww2 fighters cockpits were far better then il2s.........
[ 09-28-2001: Message edited by: Wotan ]
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Woton
Sorry.. I guess your just a close minded sad sad person.
Continue on your way.
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Ok, is it just me or does HF and Pdog smell a bit like Fscott etc etc before WWIIOL came out?
I am a beta tester for Il-2. I like verm's opinion. Apples to apples guys.
Il-2 is NOT a MMOLG. It NEVER WILL BE. Oleg DID mention he wanted to modify Il-2 one day to make one. Different thing than his current game becoming one.
Il-2 is a GREAT sim, it's not going to go lame turkey as WWIIOL did. Thats unfair, the demo allready proved it's above that level.
Il-2 is different than AH. It is first and foremost designed to emulate the experience Soviets and Germans had in WWII on the Ostfront. It has beautifull artwork in the cockpits, ground and planes to immerse you in this. AH has much more functional cockpits, and a simpler damage system as all AH wants to do is emulate the experience of WWII air combat in a large scale theatre. Different targets and I think both hit dead center into their respective areas.
Il makes an effort to portray WWII planes as Soviets view them, their performance and abilities. If your not closed minded it's actually incredibly interesting to spot the differences from sims based solely on western tests. I enjoy it, then of course I could care less if any given plane is shorted by a few miles per hour or has an unhistorical performance. It is only a game folks...
These endless fights are amazing to me. Oleg is nowhere near done with Il-2, he wants to refine it's FM more, add more features to control on the plane and effects and enviroment in the world the plane flies through. And more pressingly he wants to move onto add-on packs and expansion into other areas like the spanish Civil war or the Manchurian combat theatre.
Dale is nowhere near done with AH, for 15 bucks your going to get an MA and HA with supply, dozens and dozens of plane choices, hundreds of people to co-ordinate and fight across a massive map with. Graphically AH will grow with each generation of hardware and drivers and be more amazing every update.
Why don't people start arguing about Il-2 vs MSCFS series and AH vs WWIIOL or WB? This stuff is really starting to grate on my nerves!
Sorrow
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Oh.. err :o
My bad Wotan,
No- I don't think you will ever see that cockpit in AH. While all Ah pits resemble the plane they came from, many changes are there to give additional information the orignial may or may not have. And in AH all guages are more inclined towards clarity of use than historical exactness. Although SF and ND do great jobs making them resemble the instrumants they are based upon.
So simply.. No. you will never see that cockpit in AH.
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Originally posted by Sorrow[S=A]:
Ok, is it just me or does HF and Pdog smell a bit like Fscott etc etc before WWIIOL came out?
I am a beta tester for Il-2. I like verm's opinion. Apples to apples guys.
Il-2 is NOT a MMOLG. It NEVER WILL BE. Oleg DID mention he wanted to modify Il-2 one day to make one. Different thing than his current game becoming one.
Il-2 is a GREAT sim, it's not going to go lame turkey as WWIIOL did. Thats unfair, the demo allready proved it's above that level.
Il-2 is different than AH. It is first and foremost designed to emulate the experience Soviets and Germans had in WWII on the Ostfront. It has beautifull artwork in the cockpits, ground and planes to immerse you in this. AH has much more functional cockpits, and a simpler damage system as all AH wants to do is emulate the experience of WWII air combat in a large scale theatre. Different targets and I think both hit dead center into their respective areas.
Il makes an effort to portray WWII planes as Soviets view them, their performance and abilities. If your not closed minded it's actually incredibly interesting to spot the differences from sims based solely on western tests. I enjoy it, then of course I could care less if any given plane is shorted by a few miles per hour or has an unhistorical performance. It is only a game folks...
These endless fights are amazing to me. Oleg is nowhere near done with Il-2, he wants to refine it's FM more, add more features to control on the plane and effects and enviroment in the world the plane flies through. And more pressingly he wants to move onto add-on packs and expansion into other areas like the spanish Civil war or the Manchurian combat theatre.
Dale is nowhere near done with AH, for 15 bucks your going to get an MA and HA with supply, dozens and dozens of plane choices, hundreds of people to co-ordinate and fight across a massive map with. Graphically AH will grow with each generation of hardware and drivers and be more amazing every update.
Why don't people start arguing about Il-2 vs MSCFS series and AH vs WWIIOL or WB? This stuff is really starting to grate on my nerves!
Sorrow
What he said :)
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Let me clarify something
I found a cool 190 cockpit image posted without any question as to whether or not anyone else wants it or not. I did say "please" as in wishfully thinking. See my reply to sw for a better explanation.
I didn't mention any other sim. Deez like usual always looks for an opportunity to bad mouth AH.
pdum bass puts his 2 cents in like someone gave a fek.
So a thread showing a cool pic turns into a "mine is better then yours".
If you all have fun playing minesweeper then play it. Dont come here comparing it to AH.
I played il2 quite a bit and decided like I do with all box sim/games that I didn't like it.
What I do like about it is the badass skins folks over there are creating.
Now if your feelings are hurt deal with it you started on me about it. (not u sorrow)
Il2'ers have atleast 5 different forums to jerk each off in on how great Il2 is "going" to be.
You wont see me going over there talking crap to you all so dont hijack my thread in order to talk crap here.
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<dons waders and affixes clothespin to nostrils>
(http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/FWcockpit1.jpg)
Oooh... pretty! I for one would like HTC to spend a few more polys on cockpits. After all, that is the part of the plane you see the most of when flying. :)
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Thanks verm,
ill try to contact oleg and ask if he could send me some translations. Until that ill leave this subject.
btw. historical cockpits would be great :D
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AH? (http://www.contrabandent.com/pez1/contrib/dvv/cwmdie.gif)
(http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/cwm/alien/big.gif)
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Originally posted by Sorrow[S=A]:
So simply.. No. you will never see that cockpit in AH.
While you may be convinced you are right, you neither know what HTC plans on doing when they have the game to a point where they can start revising old stuff and giving the players more options nor do you know if it's in the works for HTC to allow historical cockpits if you want them.
So many experts on what HTC is going to do, none of 'em work with HTC.
If you want to promote Il-2, go to their boards. I'm sure there's enough people there convinced it will be "all that", you can go over there and deal with those tards.
I mean hell, they can't even get a plane to climb without a stallhorn buzzer going off. What a bunch of maroons.
DeeZCamp, "Only guy that bothers me is this swuffle. Seems to be a teen indeed."
LOL! Man you are a tard, atleast you could of given links rather typing your own garbage in. You fit in perfectly with the Il-2 fanatics, they remind me of little girls going to a N'Sync concert. All crazy and toejam because their horomones are running rampant at the site of a band that is totally pumped up beyond it's worth... kind of on the same level of Il-2.
-SW
[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]
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Excellent post Sorrow <S>
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Now NOw children settle down don't fight amongst yourselves lets all go back to pick on Akseawulfe and express our discomfort with him :D
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I think that SWulf fella is confused?
Does he agree with woton that the Il2 cockpits infact stink?
lol good Grief, poeple ask for a realistic cockpit: I mention IL2 becuase it obviously Fits the mold, and yet people whine against what is obviously a proven fact. JUST LOOK AT IL2's COCKPITS lol
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love muffin where did I say IL2 cockpits stink and why aren't you there flying it if its so great..........
I never mentioned il2 cockpits........
you did
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DeeZ, you are reading only what you want to and still you manage to mangle it beyond comprehension. No one said anything stinks, just that Wotan doesn't care for Il-2.
You pulled this same BS with X-Plane, you read what you wanted and then you put it through some tard translator so you could better understand it. Somehow you come up with a completely different idea or comment than what was ever stated.
You really shouldn't comment on things when you have trouble understanding them to begin with. Direct3D and OpenGL for starters...
-SW
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Swulf continue being a clone :D you are very good at it.
The day you ever spark any degree, of intelligence, originality, or insight to the world around you, I will surely be in awe. :)
I am above you :D you are below me lol
Bite thyself good sir haha. :D
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Deez, you are without a doubt the most annoying, bizarre and misguided person I've ever met.
The day you stop talking out your ass... ah nevermind that day will never come.
-SW
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Now see children it does work :D