Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Clone155 on November 10, 2009, 02:44:05 PM
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It is about time we get man-able ones, and it is not like you don't have a model for them.
(http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff116/clone155/ahss10.jpg)
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+1 New toys are good...
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True, but I have the feeling that these new toys would make it very difficult to attack an alerted town - it'd be like attacking a CV...
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True, but I have the feeling that these new toys would make it very difficult to attack an alerted town - it'd be like attacking a CV...
Make them slower than a Wirblewind turret, and the reload rate of the 8 inch guns on the cruisers, and the NOE raids should be fine.
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True, but I have the feeling that these new toys would make it very difficult to attack an alerted town - it'd be like attacking a CV...
I could be wrong, but didnt 88's used as AA have an altitude "floor" where their shells would not explode below? Something like 10k? Am I off on this? If it is the case though, it wouldn't be too terrible attacking an alerted town, as town guns could get the low stuff, and 88's the higher stuff.
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True - I'd probably fly through the corridor at 7-10K then though :D
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I could be wrong, but didnt 88's used as AA have an altitude "floor" where their shells would not explode below? Something like 10k? Am I off on this? If it is the case though, it wouldn't be too terrible attacking an alerted town, as town guns could get the low stuff, and 88's the higher stuff.
+1
Every time this is wished for I wonder what the minimum effective range of the 88 or a gun that size was.
wrongway
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Remember though, 88s didn't have proximity fuses. You'd need to set the altitude you wanted to detonate at for each shot.
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That sounds great, you could have a little box where you would punch in the altitude.
Oh, wait, we don't know the altitude of the plane to even 100 feet.
But new toys are always fun, and you could probably give it a more precise mapping system. Also, to prevent tank busting, we need to have something that would prevent them from going past an angle of say, 45 degrees.
-Penguin
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True, but I have the feeling that these new toys would make it very difficult to attack an alerted town - it'd be like attacking a CV...
Which are usually sunk when they stick there noses where they don't belong. How about a total of 3 mannable 88's per base with 3 more at the town? Fleets have something like 14x 5" guns. If I have the conversion right a 5"er is about equivelant to a 155mm gun. The ones were asking for aren't even 105's.
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Which are usually sunk when they stick there noses where they don't belong. How about a total of 3 mannable 88's per base with 3 more at the town? Fleets have something like 14x 5" guns. If I have the conversion right a 5"er is about equivelant to a 155mm gun. The ones were asking for aren't even 105's.
Haven't you ever been on the receiving end of one of the 5" turrets? Anyone half-decent in them can just pluck planes out of the air.
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Yes, I have. I fly through them, drop my bombs, and start dogfighting. I've rarely been shot down by AA of any sort. I'm either lucky, or everyone ignores me.
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That sounds great, you could have a little box where you would punch in the altitude.
Oh, wait, we don't know the altitude of the plane to even 100 feet.
But new toys are always fun, and you could probably give it a more precise mapping system. Also, to prevent tank busting, we need to have something that would prevent them from going past an angle of say, 45 degrees.
-Penguin
Why would you put in something to prevent the 88mm from being used as an anti-tank weapon? None of the 88 mm guns (Flak 18/36/37) had any sort of angle limiter to prevent it from going past 45 degrees and all of them were capable of being used in the AA and anti-tank role without modifications.
ack-ack
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Make them slower than a Wirblewind turret, and the reload rate of the 8 inch guns on the cruisers, and the NOE raids should be fine.
Not sure how fast the rotate speed was but the German 88's had a firing rate, depending on the level of crew training, of 15 to 20 rounds per minute.
ack-ack
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As long as there aren't more than 6 or 7 per base, they shouldn't cause a problem for GVers. And if they're hitting tanks, the aren't hitting planes. One or the other will destroy them.
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I could be wrong, but didnt 88's used as AA have an altitude "floor" where their shells would not explode below? Something like 10k? Am I off on this? If it is the case though, it wouldn't be too terrible attacking an alerted town, as town guns could get the low stuff, and 88's the higher stuff.
Not sure if it had a mimimul level, not sure that it did because of the various roles it was used for. For AA work, it had an effective ceiling of around 26,000 feet and a maximum ceiling of 35,000 feet.
ack-ack
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I think the Japanese had trouble with their altitude fuses, and so couldn't set them below 5k. But I've never heard of the Germans having problems along those lines. But that brings up an important question, ho are you going to hit a strafing A/C? If its at about the same alt as you won't your shells explode in or right infront of the gun?
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I think the Japanese had trouble with their altitude fuses, and so couldn't set them below 5k. But I've never heard of the Germans having problems along those lines. But that brings up an important question, ho are you going to hit a strafing A/C? If its at about the same alt as you won't your shells explode in or right infront of the gun?
That's why in most cases, there were also machine gun and lower caliber cannon AA guns in addition to the 88 mm AA guns to deal with low level flying planes. In game, you'd have to almost have the same thing, maybe up an Ostwind or Wirblewind for low level threats while the 88 mm deals with the medium to high altidude threats. The AA vehicles would also provide cover to the 88 mms when being used as anti-tank guns.
To also answer your last question more specifically, the rounds would not go off in the barrel or right in front of the gun because the Germans didn't use proximity fuses, they didn't have the technology. Proximity fuses was only used by the Allied forces and for a time, was under strict usage guidelines that only allowed it to be used on Allied naval ships and usage restrictions were removed or at least eased up on.
ack-ack
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No, I mean like a low level strafing run, say 50ft, would the shell explode too close to the gun, or before it got close enough to damage the A/C?
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No, I mean like a low level strafing run, say 50ft, would the shell explode too close to the gun, or before it got close enough to damage the A/C?
Don't think an 88 mm would be able to track a fast moving plane that low enough to be able to fire at it.
ack-ack
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Firing at a tank, sees a plane, loads with AA shell. Happens all the time with 5" guns for me.
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I could be wrong, but didnt 88's used as AA have an altitude "floor" where their shells would not explode below? Something like 10k? Am I off on this? If it is the case though, it wouldn't be too terrible attacking an alerted town, as town guns could get the low stuff, and 88's the higher stuff.
nobody ever thinks that these 88s would be anti tank also... set it on the edge of a base away from trees and you got a problem for every GV out there. and i agree with the idea of the osti and whirble hitting lower targets
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Tiger has the same sized gun. Its not as huge a threat as everone seems to think. A simmilar Italian gun was better in both roles. Look it up on wiki, its the 90mm one.
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smaller target than the tiger... dang man, youre as fast as me responding to these. the tiger has a big target, an 88 can kill the tiger without it seeing its attacker
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AFAIK
The 88mm anti-aircraft artillery rounds were time delay fuses, not dependent on altitude....
Strip
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OK, thanks strip.
BAR, you have to remember, the Tiger has armor, and hits can be at a bad angle, or the shell may have spent it's energy and not penetrate the armor, where as the 88' was out in the open, and HE shells would easily take it out, you don't need to hit it with tungsten flying at 1000feet per second to kill it. If you hit the tiger, its not a sure kill, but if you hit the 88' its dead.
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Its not as huge a threat as everone seems to think.
Tell that to the tens of thousands of Allied (Soviet forces included) that died in their tanks from the German 88 mm. It was probably one of the most devastating anti-tank fielded during the war and there was hardly any tank that it couldn't kill.
ack-ack
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Yes, I know that. But we have the Tiger for all sides in AH2. It wouldn't have been so efective agains the Tiger. I'm not saying it wouldn't pose a conciderable threat, but just that it isn't a server destroying issue.
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OK, thanks strip.
BAR, you have to remember, the Tiger has armor, and hits can be at a bad angle, or the shell may have spent it's energy and not penetrate the armor, where as the 88' was out in the open, and HE shells would easily take it out, you don't need to hit it with tungsten flying at 1000feet per second to kill it. If you hit the tiger, its not a sure kill, but if you hit the 88' its dead.
understandable
Yes, I know that. But we have the Tiger for all sides in AH2. It wouldn't have been so efective agains the Tiger. I'm not saying it wouldn't pose a conciderable threat, but just that it isn't a server destroying issue.
dont forget the all powerful tiger standoffs. even at distance the 88 still damages at the least... get it at a side shot or at the rear which i know happens too many times to count... well, yeah i still think this 88 would save bases alone. not to mention we wont always see tigers on the field
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dont forget the all powerful tiger standoffs. even at distance the 88 still damages at the least... get it at a side shot or at the rear which i know happens too many times to count... well, yeah i still think this 88 would save bases alone. not to mention we wont always see tigers on the field
True, it probably won't, although I seem to encounter a lot of tigers when I'm low on AP shells. But I take your point. How about a limited number of AP shells, say 50, per hour?
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a good shot would kill 50 tanks in that hour :neener: dance banana dance :banana:
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So your saying we make it 25? A good shot with a tiger can kill just as many.
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true... true
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Also we should up the manned guns pop time to 30 minutes instead of 15 minutes.
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would make things too hard for the base to defend in my opinion clone... but it is opinion haha
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would make things too hard for the base to defend in my opinion clone... but it is opinion haha
Then just leave the 88s to 30 minute re-up time.
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Thats a good Idea clone. And BAR, a good shot with any tank in the game can kill as many tanks as they have AP rounds (T-34 would have to be from behind and at relatively close range for them, but it could do it.
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yeah... ummm.... im confused now from what i said... tired
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I said that the number of enemy tanks every tank in the game can kill is equal to the number of AP rounds they have. I know its not going to happen anytime soon, but it is possible.
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ok. now i understand. thanks for the clarification... :salute
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Partialy my fault, I could have worded that better.
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no problem at all but the dancing banana needs to come back :banana: dance banana dance!
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fascinated with that banana aren't you?
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love it like, well its like my virtual banana... literally, im eating one now... NO JOKES!
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hehehe, nice BAR.
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welcome to AOL chatroom 365....
wrongway
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AOL chatroom?
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welcome to AOL chatroom 365....
wrongway
a/s/l?
ack-ack
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welcome to AOL chatroom 365....
wrongway
It is called bumping your thread count as if something such as that is too be chased after...
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The 88's were wonderful in anti-tank role until the British figured out how to stop them. The Brit's would lose a tank to direct 88mm fire, the next few tanks would back away, lob in some indirect HE fire and take out the 88mm. The 88mm was not armored of course and quite susceptible to HE whether from gv's or planes carrying bombs. Should make it a good fight with one or two batteries of 3 88's positions per base instead of the just 1 or 2 "soft guns" = single barrel 37 or 40 mm.
And wow, if we could take an 88 off base up into the surrounding hills!
For use in AAA role, the Germans set up "boxes" in the sky and had a squadron of 88's fill the box on command. Don't know if a single 88 could ever hit a high flying bomber one on one. It was a percentage game. To be effective in that role, the gamer should actually be firing a battery of three 88's.
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Just a note on 88 mm realism. My father was at Anzio with the 45th Infantry Division (and a few other guys). He was delivering ammo - a jeep with 2 wheel ammo carrier truck attached. When he stopped, the Germans, having the high ground in the hills around Anzio, had him spotted him. They through a single 88mm shell at him. It landed right between the jeep and the truck. Now that is accuracy.
Fortunately for my father (and me), the shell did not explode and merely covered him with dirt.
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Yes, I know that. But we have the Tiger for all sides in AH2. It wouldn't have been so efective agains the Tiger. I'm not saying it wouldn't pose a conciderable threat, but just that it isn't a server destroying issue.
I think you need to lay off the pipe some kid.
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you want to upset somebody in a tiger. put a round right in the turret. that will knock its main gun out. then just laugh about it and wait till he turns around to leave then shoot him in the back. ok back to the 88's that would be awesome addition to the game.
semp
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+1
Every time this is wished for I wonder what the minimum effective range of the 88 or a gun that size was.
wrongway
From the book, "The World at Arms" published by reader digest:
"Designed as an anti-aircraft gun that could hurl heavy flak 14km(9 miles)high, the German 88 proved a fearsome weapon in the Desert War. It unleashed 20HV rounds a minute. With an effective horizontal range of over 9km(6 iles)its devastating fire could put any tank out of action".
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The 88's were wonderful in anti-tank role until the British figured out how to stop them. The Brit's would lose a tank to direct 88mm fire, the next few tanks would back away, lob in some indirect HE fire and take out the 88mm.
Did they ask for volunteers in the first tank ? :bolt:
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Yes, god bless your father and the "Greatest Generation". I have read a lot of the Second World War. I served 3 1/2 years in the Army and served overseas. In one of my books, I read a verse that read: "The 88 converted more men to Christianity then Peter and Paul combined". It was an amazing weapon. The round traveled at such a velocity that you would be dead before you heard it. And asd for theyre accuracy, form the book D-Day by Stephen Ambrose. A soldier on an LVT(coast guard it think). He said something along the lines of, "the Germans(this is an 88 he was talking about) put a shell 100 yards to our left, 100 yard to our right, the third shell landed on the Coxswains head." Amazing!