Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: M.C.202 on December 17, 2001, 07:06:00 PM

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: M.C.202 on December 17, 2001, 07:06:00 PM

No photo, so use tha data to name/guess the Bird.

It was built, flown, and saw use in a hot combat zone pre VJ day.

Speed  398mph at  14,765ft
Max speed in a dive   0.86 Mach
Climb  7.min 34sec. to 19,685
Ceiling  39,370ft
Guns  two 20mm cannon, two heavy mgs
Max weight  5,324lbs
extra hints
First flight 1942
Not French

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: brady on December 17, 2001, 07:38:00 PM

That is "max" weight? not empty right?

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: ra on December 17, 2001, 07:41:00 PM

One of the Macchi lookalikes?  Whatever it is, I seriously doubt that Mach number.

ra

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: Raubvogel on December 17, 2001, 07:51:00 PM

I was going to say Yak3, but that armament wouldn't be right. That weight is light as hell...not many aircraft it could be.

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: brady on December 17, 2001, 08:02:00 PM

I was going to MC 205 but the weights are off i think unless it is empty weight.

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: Shire_PLH on December 17, 2001, 08:12:00 PM

Me109E?

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: M.C.202 on December 17, 2001, 10:36:00 PM

He he, this is fun  :D

brady ask:
That is "max" weight? not empty right?

Right, empty was under 3,900lbs

ra scoffed:
One of the Macchi lookalikes? Whatever it is, I seriously doubt that Mach number.

True airspeed of 569mph at 10,000 feet during test dive from high alt.
And no, not a Macchi.

Raubvogel said:
I was going to say Yak3, but that armament wouldn't be right. That weight is light as hell...not many aircraft it could be.

Yep the weight would be a clue.

Shire_PLH  made a S.W.A.G. (Scientific Wild bellybutton Guess) of:

Me109E?

Nope  :)

More clues:
1.  The pre-production aircraft were sent to an active base and according to one source were scrambled for interceping bombers. All 13 of them were at one base  ;)

2.  A follow up improved model had switchable gun sets.

3.  The builder also built a real Bass Ackward plane  :D

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: kreighund on December 17, 2001, 11:24:00 PM

It was the S.A.I. 207 and only 13 pre-production machines were built..

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: Kratzer on December 17, 2001, 11:26:00 PM

Is it Japanese?

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: brady on December 17, 2001, 11:44:00 PM

SAI 207

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: brady on December 17, 2001, 11:45:00 PM

DAM I was looking it up and was beat to it! :)

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: M.C.202 on December 18, 2001, 12:05:00 AM

DING DING DING!!!
We have a winner
kreighund
posted 12-17-2001 11:24 PM

It was the S.A.I. 207 and only 13 pre-production machines were built..

Yep, but they were placed in an active role    :)

with a close second :
brady
12-17-2001 11:44 PM
               
SAI 207
and
posted 12-17-2001 11:45 PM                

DAM I was looking it up and was beat to it!

(EDIT) What was the giveaway?
Who wants to do the next one?

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: M.C.202 ]

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: brady on December 18, 2001, 12:10:00 AM

Realy BIG refrence book :)

   If I hadent taken the time to read all about it i would of beaten wardog to it! :)

  Well done krieghund :)

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: GRUNHERZ on December 18, 2001, 01:17:00 AM

Actually that armament would more likely make it a SAI 403, the SAI 207 only had the two 12.7mm no 20mm cannon.

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: kreighund on December 18, 2001, 07:41:00 AM

It were n'thin, jest the pwer o' the Internat......

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: M.C.202 on December 18, 2001, 09:41:00 AM

GRUNHERZ  said:
Actually that armament would more likely make it a SAI 403, the SAI 207 only had the two 12.7mm no 20mm cannon.


Hummm, I've got :
"Armament: Two 20mm Mauser MG151 with 90 rpb, and two 12.7 mm Breda-SAFT machine guns with 175 rpg."
in the source I used.

The climb is a bit slow, and not a lot of wing area, but the speed is good for 750hp.
With a small, thin wing the dive speed does not look too out of line.

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: M.C.202 on December 18, 2001, 09:43:00 AM

GRUNHERZ  said:
Actually that armament would more likely make it a SAI 403, the SAI 207 only had the two 12.7mm no 20mm cannon.


Hummm, I've got :
"Armament: Two 20mm Mauser MG151 with 90 rpb, and two 12.7 mm Breda-SAFT machine guns with 175 rpg."
in the source I used.

The climb is a bit slow, and not a lot of wing area, but the speed is good for 750hp.
With a small, thin wing the dive speed does not look too out of line.

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: ra on December 18, 2001, 11:26:00 AM

(http://204.50.25.179/features00/images/images_6/SAI207aw_5.jpg)

Looks like another Macchi clone to me.  I still doubt that Mach number too.

ra

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: M.C.202 on December 18, 2001, 02:30:00 PM

ra said:
Looks like another Macchi clone to me. I still doubt that Mach number too.

Humm....
------------------SIA 207----------------Macchi
airframe-------Wood-------------Aluminium

engine-----aircooled 750hp-------DB60X

weight max-----5,324lbs----------7,523lbs

Sort of like the F6F being a FW190 clone?
  :D

As to the dive speed, I have a book that said so, what have ya got to base your disbelief on? Italy did have some damm good designers, and still hold a world air speed record with a pre war plane  :)

For the record the UNcorected airspeed at 10,000 feet was  466mph, does that match the supposed Mach number?

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: M.C.202 on December 18, 2001, 05:32:00 PM

oops, I forgot to add:
Nice model RA  :)  Scratch build or is it a kit?

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: ra on December 18, 2001, 05:36:00 PM

MC 202 I was referring to the appearance: MC.205, Fiat G56, and this SAI 207.  Did Mussilini pass an edict that all fighters must look alike?

I don't know what Mach 466 IAS at 10K translates to, but Mach .86 is very high for any WWII plane.  I think the P-47 critical Mach was around .82 or .83.  

ra

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: GRUNHERZ on December 18, 2001, 08:47:00 PM

F8F Bearcat was based on FW190 design, not F6F Hellcat.

Grumman chief test pilot and Bearcat designer said that they would have a world beater if they only put an R2800 on a FW190 after examing and flying a captured Fw190A5.
He went back to Grumman and argued for design of such a plane as there was no US govt requrement for a small fighter at the time.

I know its heartbraking, I know it is,you can make fun of this if it makes you feel better. Its ok...

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: brady on December 18, 2001, 08:53:00 PM

lol :)

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: J_A_B on December 18, 2001, 08:54:00 PM

Wouldn't that mean that the F8F CONCEPT was based on the FW-190, and not the actual design?

If the F8F was indeed nothing more than a FW with an R-2800 than I'd say otherwise.  Obviously it isn't.

Title: Sort of "name this"
Post by: M.C.202 on December 18, 2001, 11:27:00 PM

OH DEAR GOD I'm sorry  :rolleyes:

I'll have to to a Bart Simpson and write a hundred times:

I will not pull the leg of GRUNHERZ, and if I do I will proof read the post first.
  :D

F8F F8F F8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8FF8F F8F...