Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Widewing on November 25, 2009, 07:32:09 PM
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Taken directly from the assembly line, a factory stock Viper ACR set a new production sports car lap record at Laguna Seca. A factory Engineer was at the wheel (not a professional race driver). This is one of six track records established by the Viper ACR, the most prestigious being at Nurburgring, where it lapped 4 seconds faster than a 2009 Corvette ZR1 prepared by a GM factory team.
What the future holds for the Viper is unknown, but as of right now, it's mighty impressive.
(http://www.autoweek.com/storyimage/CW/20091125/CARNEWS/911259998/viper.jpg)
http://media.chrysler.com/video/assets/lowres/flvplayer.swf?file=http://chryslermedia.iconicweb.com/video/1689/Driver View of Viper Record Lap.flv&image=http://chryslermedia.iconicweb.com/video/1689/Driver View of Viper Record Lap.jpg&height=260&width=320 (http://media.chrysler.com/video/assets/lowres/flvplayer.swf?file=http://chryslermedia.iconicweb.com/video/1689/Driver View of Viper Record Lap.flv&image=http://chryslermedia.iconicweb.com/video/1689/Driver View of Viper Record Lap.jpg&height=260&width=320)
My regards,
Widewing
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The anti American brigade will be here shortly to pee on the thread.
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The anti American brigade will be here shortly to pee on the thread.
Not anti-american, but I think the nose is a bit too long. Makes it look kinda awkward from certain angles. Other than that, VERY sexy car!
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good to see the viper doing what its meant to do. Go fast no matter what shape the road is.
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Needs to be at Sebring in March if it wants to be a serious race car. ALMS baby! :rock
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good to see the viper doing what its meant to do. Go fast no matter what shape the road is.
Looking at the front clearance any road with any kind of curbs is a big no-no. :)
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Looking at the front clearance any road with any kind of curbs is a big no-no. :)
Looks like its coming off the top of the corkscrew at speed in that pic. Just about any car will bottom out attempting that.
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Looking at the front clearance any road with any kind of curbs is a big no-no. :)
The splitter is quickly detached and not recommended for normal street use. A parking lot speed bump would be bad.....
My regards,
Widewing
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This is one of six track records established by the Viper ACR, the most prestigious being at Nurburgring, where it lapped 4 seconds faster than a 2009 Corvette ZR1 prepared by a GM factory team.
Oranges, apples, etc.
Viper's lap record was set on R-comp race tires.
Corvette ZR-1 time was set on street tires.
Equal tires and the ZR-1 crushes the Viper. The Dodge guys of course test it on race tires because that's the way it comes from the factory.... as it is not a "street car" but a race-ready car (i.e. the ACR, which stands for "American Club Racer") available from the factory that happens to be street "legal" even if not really useable.
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a buddy of mine has 2 vipers. one isn't stock. he's a drag racer, although he's taken the hopped up one to pocono.
the hopped up one runs mid 10's in the 1/4 mile, and it's his every day driver. he's changing the heads, adding a bigger super charger, and a few other things.
he's aiming for 9's. specifically, 9.40's.
i think it's supposed to be in the next month or 2 that he drives it to georgia, and makes his passes. i'll keep yas informed.
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The anti American brigade will be here shortly to pee on the thread.
Not to insult your delicate American genius but comments will be about car not the country.
If car criticism hurts your American pride then you should not be here.
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Oranges, apples, etc.
Viper's lap record was set on R-comp race tires.
Corvette ZR-1 time was set on street tires.
Equal tires and the ZR-1 crushes the Viper. The Dodge guys of course test it on race tires because that's the way it comes from the factory.... as it is not a "street car" but a race-ready car (i.e. the ACR, which stands for "American Club Racer") available from the factory that happens to be street "legal" even if not really useable.
"Crush"?? Pure hyperbole.
The Viper was running street legal tires; Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires to be precise, as installed at the factory. These tires are also factory installed on BMW M3s and Porsche GT2s as well as the Viper. The Vette was running Michelin Pilot Sport 2 rubber.
The class rules are simple. Unmodified, street legal, factory sports cars.
The Viper ACR is quite usable for the street. Loud and harsh, but perfectly okay if you don't mind the rough ride.
One fact overlooked is that Dodge Engineers are certain that if they had more time to dial in the Viper that day, they would have shaved at least another 5 seconds off of the lap record.
I'm sure Chevrolet would like the record back... They'll have to step it up though. A set of tires won't be enough to beat the improved and revised (revised gear ratios) 2010 ACR, which is projected to be able to run sub-7:10 laps at the Ring.
If you watch the video of the ACR's hot lap around the ring, you see that in many short stretches and on every long straight, the engine is on the rev limiter. Simply not enough gear... You'll also see the driver is not pushing it quite as hard as he could, lifting at times and missing shifts.
A link to the video is below. Just remember, this is almost a two year-old record... When Dodge goes back in 2010 (scheduled to share the track with Ferrari in May), I expect to see lap times in the 7:07-7:09 range.
http://www.motortrend.com/av/features/112_0811_2009_dodge_viper_acr_nurburgring_record_video/index.html (http://www.motortrend.com/av/features/112_0811_2009_dodge_viper_acr_nurburgring_record_video/index.html)
My regards,
Widewing
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Poor engine, sounded down right nasty on the rev limiter down the long straightaway. I think the car is capable of 6 minute lap times with a better driver or at least better lap from this driver. The Viper did seem a little touchy and harsh even for this type of track as well....
Strip
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Not to insult your delicate American genius but comments will be about car not the country.
If car criticism hurts your American pride then you should not be here.
Yeaaa look at all those russian cars crushing ring lap times. :rolleyes:
Shaddaappp
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Yeaaa look at all those russian cars crushing ring lap times. :rolleyes:
Shaddaappp
Look at the hypocritical jerk bringing country into it...
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Not anti-american, but I think the nose is a bit too long. Makes it look kinda awkward from certain angles. Other than that, VERY sexy car!
To long? Its a 12 cyl. Of COURSE it has a long nose. I expect to see the Viper take the record.No matter what the Vette team does.The Viper is a BEAST. :rock
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To long? Its a 12 cyl. Of COURSE it has a long nose. I expect to see the Viper take the record.No matter what the Vette team does.The Viper is a BEAST. :rock
Erm 10 cyl. :aok
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Look at the hypocritical jerk bringing country into it...
Hey numpty I'm criticizing russian cars not the russian people.
Now go back to squeaking.
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To long? Its a 12 cyl. Of COURSE it has a long nose. I expect to see the Viper take the record.No matter what the Vette team does.The Viper is a BEAST. :rock
12?? :huh I get 11 if you add the brake master cylinder. Must be some of that Detroit iron built in Modena.
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12?? :huh I get 11 if you add the brake master cylinder. Must be some of that Detroit iron built in Modena.
Well now that Chrysler is owned by FIAT.. possible 12 cyl from another company could be possible.
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Erm 10 cyl. :aok
DOH!!! Yes 10 it is.
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Yeaaa look at all those russian cars crushing ring lap times. :rolleyes:
Shaddaappp
Why don't ya mention Zimbabwean cars while you at it :rofl
I'm not Russian.
Shaddaappp
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This thread reminds me of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KiC03_wVjc
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DrDea you weasel. I just realized you stole my other sig line. :D
Maybe it's time for a change. here ya go.
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Yeaaa look at all those russian cars crushing ring lap times. :rolleyes:
Shaddaappp
You'd be amazed at what they've done with the 1965 Fiat design Lada was based on for 30 years.
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Why don't ya mention Zimbabwean cars while you at it :rofl
I'm not Russian.
Shaddaappp
Ohh that's right, you're from a former soviet block country. Please enlighten us with your latest performance car design. I'm sure we'll all be amazed.
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The Viper was running street legal tires; Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires to be precise, as installed at the factory. These tires are also factory installed on BMW M3s and Porsche GT2s as well as the Viper. The Vette was running Michelin Pilot Sport 2 rubber
BIG diff between sports and cups - the cups are soft compound semi-slicks for track use, my guess worth about 10s at the ring. that ring lap looked pretty committed to me and a missed change isnt that surprising, every review ive read of vipers over the years has described the gearchange as "vague" or "agricultural." strange thing is it looked like more of a handful at laguna seca than the ring.
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DrDea you weasel. I just realized you stole my other sig line. :D
Maybe it's time for a change. here ya go.
:lol
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Well now that Chrysler is owned by FIAT.. possible 12 cyl from another company could be possible.
Lots of rumors have swirled around a Ferrari designed V12 or V8 going into the Viper. Fiat says no..
Insiders are saying that Chrysler will continue to fund a new V10 being done in-house to debut in the 2012 incarnation of the Viper. Others are saying that Penske will be contracted to do some chassis track development, but this seems unlikely.
My regards,
Widewing
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BIG diff between sports and cups - the cups are soft compound semi-slicks for track use, my guess worth about 10s at the ring. that ring lap looked pretty committed to me and a missed change isnt that surprising, every review ive read of vipers over the years has described the gearchange as "vague" or "agricultural." strange thing is it looked like more of a handful at laguna seca than the ring.
The driver at the Ring was a pro... An Engineer was driving at Laguna Seca.
I doubt that the video of the hot lap around the Ring was the 7:22 lap. This was a 7:26 lap. Those missed shifts were good for 2 seconds alone. With the gearing changes for 2010, specifically tailored to the issues at Nurburgring, the engine will not be bouncing off the rev limiter on the next attempt. The plan is to do all primary chassis tuning prior to flying the cars to Germany. Thus, only minor adjustments will be required.
This should result in sub 7:10 lap times.
My regards,
Widewing
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Had Grand Tourismo flash backs watching that lap. He was under driving the car no doubt about it.
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With the gearing changes for 2010, specifically tailored to the issues at Nurburgring, the engine will not be bouncing off the rev limiter on the next attempt. The plan is to do all primary chassis tuning prior to flying the cars to Germany. Thus, only minor adjustments will be required.
This should result in sub 7:10 lap times.
will be interesting to see if slightly different gearing alone can take 12s off the time, i'm dubious it will make that much difference.
is it possible to tune the aero and suspension for the ring on the ZR-1 like the ACR?
btw great to see 2 manufacturers going head to head like this :aok
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will be interesting to see if slightly different gearing alone can take 12s off the time, i'm dubious it will make that much difference.
is it possible to tune the aero and suspension for the ring on the ZR-1 like the ACR?
btw great to see 2 manufacturers going head to head like this :aok
The car was on the rev limiter for a long time down the long straight, fifteen to twenty seconds if I recall correctly.
Strip
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Looking at the onboard footage from Laguna the car could be driven alot better round it. Perhaps i am ignorant, but that video looked like almost sloppy driving. More for the thrill than setting a fast lap.
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Looking at the onboard footage from Laguna the car could be driven alot better round it. Perhaps i am ignorant, but that video looked like almost sloppy driving. More for the thrill than setting a fast lap.
The driver at the Ring was a pro... An Engineer was driving at Laguna Seca.
My regards,
Widewing
Might explain what you witnessed. :D
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Bronk i have to ask , Why so insecure , if people dont like the viper that is their choice is it not ?
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Because deep down he knows it's a POS.
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From sims,the Viper takes a real steady hand,and foot to get all you can out of it.Im sure the engineer left a LOT out on the table at Laguna. At the ring,the gearing hurt it.
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Bronk i have to ask , Why so insecure , if people dont like the viper that is their choice is it not ?
Don't have to like it. I don't like WWII german AC but I can appreciate there achievements/performance.
While others can't.
Get it?
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Ah... Chrysler. Who doesn't love a company that designs a vehicle where you have to take a tire off to get at the access panel to change the battery.
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Ah... Chrysler. Who doesn't love a company that designs a vehicle where you have to take a tire off to get at the access panel to change the battery.
Not too bad... Ever try to change a battery in an early MGB? How about the sparkplugs on a Sunbeam Tiger (unbolt the drive shaft, remove the rear transmission cross member/mount, swing the tranny down with the engine to reach the aft most pair on the 260 or 289 engine). How about the Austin-Healey Sprite/MG Midget clutch change? You can't remove the gearbox until after you pull out the engine... There's lots of examples of lousy compromises in engineering. Chrysler's, while annoying, aren't nearly as bad as some. Access to everything on my 2008 Wrangler is outstanding... Except to top off or fill the engine oil. You need a long-neck funnel or you'll have a mess.
My regards,
Widewing
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"How about the Austin-Healey Sprite/MG Midget clutch change? You can't remove the gearbox until after you pull out the engine... "
pulling the engine was easy, just pull the engine, tranny stays in car.
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"How about the Austin-Healey Sprite/MG Midget clutch change? You can't remove the gearbox until after you pull out the engine... "
pulling the engine was easy, just pull the engine, tranny stays in car.
I agree. If you are doing the job alone, leaving the gear box in the chassis is easier. But, if you have a friend, pulling both together is better. Especially with the 1275 engine. Also, I always rebuilt the slave cylinder when doing a clutch change.
For those who don't know, the Sprite/Midget chassis/frame was not stiff enough and this was remedied by boxing the transmission tunnel. This made access to the transmission virtually non-existent. There was a rubber plug that allowed access to bleed the clutch slave cylinder, but that was about all.
My regards,
Widewing
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You'd be amazed at what they've done with the 1965 Fiat design Lada was based on for 30 years.
Actually, to be honest, you really wouldn't.
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BIG diff between sports and cups - the cups are soft compound semi-slicks for track use, my guess worth about 10s at the ring.
10 seconds on a course that long is probably a very conservative estimate.
The Sport Cups are track tires. Sure they're street legal, but then again all DOT-R compound race tires are, technically, when they come out of the mould. Likewise, the Kumho Ecsta V710's I raced on with the Vette, Acura, and Honda are street legal, too. They're probably good for a few thousand miles of easy street use before they're chorded. They normally last 2-3 race weekends (12-16 heat cycles) before they're junk. The Viper's tires are the same.... they're on the car from the factory because the car was intended for track use, not street.
As far as lap times, I'd bet the difference between race tires and street tires at that course would be more than 10 seconds. I can tell you on my older Vette that was set up strictly for track use, the difference between good street tires and DOT-R race tires on the 2.1 mile course at Roebling road was 2.5-3 seconds a lap, and close to 5 full seconds at Carolina Motorsports Park, a 14 turn 2.7 mile circuit. I'm no factory test driver, but with a NASA National class championship and a SCCA Divisional championship I think I'm good enough to know the difference and get most of the good out of each set of tires.
I stand by my position: The Viper and the Vette were running on nowhere near equal footing, and given equal rubber the ZR-1 Vette would trounce the Viper. I guess that's why the Vette engineers ignore the Viper's times for comparison's sake, and focus more on Nissaan and Porsche's times. They're competing against actual street cars that are their actual competition, not factory prepped race cars that will likely never see street use nor were they intended to.
cheers.
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To better show the differance between street tires and race tires. Vette on street tires and my little wimpy Ford Probe was on race tires...V700's fyi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYmmcdN_qLU
DuHasst
At about 7 sec. in you can hear me say seeya C5!!!! lol
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Here's another interesting video of the Viper ACR and the ZR1 synchronized. You can see where the Viper was faster where the ZR1 fell behind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08nxInpgTGc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08nxInpgTGc)
My regards,
Widewing
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Might explain what you witnessed. :D
indeed, whoops :lol
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Here's another interesting video of the Viper ACR and the ZR1 synchronized. You can see where the Viper was faster where the ZR1 fell behind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08nxInpgTGc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08nxInpgTGc)
got to go shoot some red planes now but I know what I'll be watching wit my coffee tommorow morning :D
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Here's another interesting video of the Viper ACR and the ZR1 synchronized. You can see where the Viper was faster where the ZR1 fell behind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08nxInpgTGc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08nxInpgTGc)
Thank you. That vid illustrates my point perfectly. The Viper made practically all of its time over the ZR1 in the corners, turn entry, corner speed, and throttle on at exit, exactly where the difference in tire would give it a tremendous advantage.
Apples, oranges, potatoes.
Curiously, where is Dodge racing the Viper? Where is this ACR cleaning up?
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The Viper is a monster. A Monster!
Call it what it is. I get woozy at the thought of pimping around in one, on a Sat. night, looking for races. Just like I used to do back in the '70s.
With that car, and a pocketfull of Viagra, I could be 18yo again. :banana:
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Thank you. That vid illustrates my point perfectly. The Viper made practically all of its time over the ZR1 in the corners, turn entry, corner speed, and throttle on at exit, exactly where the difference in tire would give it a tremendous advantage
yup, same rubber I reckon there would be just seconds between them.
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Thank you. That vid illustrates my point perfectly. The Viper made practically all of its time over the ZR1 in the corners, turn entry, corner speed, and throttle on at exit, exactly where the difference in tire would give it a tremendous advantage.
Apples, oranges, potatoes.
Curiously, where is Dodge racing the Viper? Where is this ACR cleaning up?
The 1000 lbs of down force it can produce would have no effect in the corners either. :lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inO-F5mbtKw
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The 1000 lbs of down force it can produce would have no effect in the corners either. :lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inO-F5mbtKw
Never said it wouldn't or didn't. That's beside the point. My point is a 5 second difference is nothing for the Vette to overcome and then some, were they on equal tires.
Next.
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Never said it wouldn't or didn't. That's beside the point.No it isn't beside the point. The down force added makes a huge difference in braking, cornering and acceleration. You could have racing slicks and because of the aero package not get anywhere near their full grip potential.
My point is a 5 second difference is nothing for the Vette to overcome and then some, were they on equal tires.
Next.
5 seconds is a lifetime at speed. If that viper had been geared correctly and not mis-shifted as much you could probably tack on another 5.
IMO I think the vette is pretty much at the limits of its lap times. To get a significant diff, Aero would have to be looked at.
Just to be clear I like both cars. If I had the $ I'd probably buy the Vette. It would most likely be easier to live with day to day.
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That is 5 seconds over a 7 minute and change course, hardly a lifetime, that is around 1% of the laptime. Easily attributed to many variables like tires, weather, day or night conditions, and driver skill. Another thing to consider is curb weight, the Viper is notoriously hard on tires, and burns more fuel which causes bigger swings in handling over fuel runs.
When its this close the only true measure is time around the course over a complete fuel run....
Strip
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Never said it wouldn't or didn't. That's beside the point. My point is a 5 second difference is nothing for the Vette to overcome and then some, were they on equal tires.
Next.
Chevy's problem is that the 2010 ACR will be about 10 to 15 seconds faster than the 2009 version... That means that the Vette would need to be about 15 to 20 seconds quicker to keep up. I can't believe that there are 20 seconds in those tires.
Digging thru the SCCA regs, I can't find any classification for the 2009 ACR. Older Vipers must have restrictor plates to compete (limited to 450 hp). No classification for T1 or STO... Thus, apparently they don't get to race. Can't win if you can't compete, and who would want to compete if they were to stick to form and mandate a 20% power reduction?
Remember when the CTS-Vs first ran the touring car series? They were so much faster than the Bimmers and Porsches that the SCCA immediately added ballast and restrictor plates. Can't allow anyone any advantage ya know.... Can't afford to piss off the German manufacturers. They'll pack up their party and leave (see Audi's whines when the Penske LMP-2 Porsche program was eating Audi's Cherrios).
I haven't looked at NASA regs yet.
It seems that the SCCA is heading down the old crapper, with a lot more emphasis being placed upon neutering faster cars to create a false balance. Nothing like it was in the 1970s when I was a member and competing...
Fiat has already been talking about the possibility of the Viper's replacement competing in FIA GT-1 or GT-2 in 2012. I guess we'll have to wait and see if that happens.
My regards,
Widewing
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where are they going to get another 10-15s from? weight, brakes, suspension, aero and tyres all seem pretty much optimised for a road car.
as for restrictor plates they are a pretty ingenious way for vastly different cars to compete, remember CTS-Vs dont have a slight advantage here, they have 6.0l vs BMW 2.8l and Porsche 3.8l. unless you want one class for US cars and another for everyone else its the best way of doing it.
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where are they going to get another 10-15s from? weight, brakes, suspension, aero and tyres all seem pretty much optimised for a road car.
as for restrictor plates they are a pretty ingenious way for vastly different cars to compete, remember CTS-Vs dont have a slight advantage here, they have 6.0l vs BMW 2.8l and Porsche 3.8l. unless you want one class for US cars and another for everyone else its the best way of doing it.
Wait I remember a certian BBC TV presentor claiming they get the same HP from a toaster or some such.
Can't beat em regulate them out it's the SOP now.
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toaster? :confused:
its been SOP for racing to have entry regulations and different classes to ensure competitive racing since the '20s at least. restrictors are a neat solution - everyone gets the same volume of fuel/air, how you use it is up to you.
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toaster? :confused:
its been SOP for racing to have entry regulations and different classes to ensure competitive racing since the '20s at least. restrictors are a neat solution - everyone gets the same volume of fuel/air, how you use it is up to you.
See.. that's why they have different classes to begin with so the high hp cars can run with each other.
No need to homogenize racing.
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where are they going to get another 10-15s from? weight, brakes, suspension, aero and tyres all seem pretty much optimised for a road car.
as for restrictor plates they are a pretty ingenious way for vastly different cars to compete, remember CTS-Vs dont have a slight advantage here, they have 6.0l vs BMW 2.8l and Porsche 3.8l. unless you want one class for US cars and another for everyone else its the best way of doing it.
Gear ratios suited for the Ring... No spending 30 seconds per lap on the rev limiter. Another 9 mph on top end as well. Also, the cars will have access to the track for an entire day, rather than just 3 hours. This will enable the setup to be fully sorted.
I never liked cutting HP to create competitive classes. Simply adjust the class, or limit modification to the naturally faster cars. Back in the day.... We ran an incredibly competitive March 77B on a shoestring budget. We were competitive because we were creative and lived on the edge of the rules. There wasn't much money, so we found speed through innovative methods. Simple things, like altering the BDA's cam timing by 1 degree. Was worth a half second. Milling bleed slots into the Gurney lip reduced drag without a down force penalty. Reshaping the end plates gained us almost 50 RPM on the straight over a previous test with no decrease in down force. Lots of detail changes that the other guys never even thought of. Two of us maintained and prepped this car for the owner/driver as volunteers. We ran a limited schedule, but were often on the front row of National events. The driver was a former National Formula C champion (SCCA). He was also Peter Gregg's Sales Manager at Peter H Gregg Mercedes-Benz. I graduated the Skip Barber School and campaigned an F Production MG Midget and a G Production Alfa Romeo. However, it's been nearly 30 years since I last went road racing... Since then it was just Autocross and Solo events only, and none in recent years. Priorities do change....
My regards,
Widewing
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To better show the differance between street tires and race tires. Vette on street tires and my little wimpy Ford Probe was on race tires...V700's fyi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYmmcdN_qLU
DuHasst
At about 7 sec. in you can hear me say seeya C5!!!! lol
actually, it looked more like the vette dude was a little incompetent.
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Here's another interesting video of the Viper ACR and the ZR1 synchronized. You can see where the Viper was faster where the ZR1 fell behind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08nxInpgTGc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08nxInpgTGc)
My regards,
Widewing
in a sense, we are comparing apples to oranges though. it's like comparing the zr1 to a mustang gt. two different animals.
the corvette is a street car, souped up. it's a hot rod. it's the ultimate hot rod.
the viper is a handbuilt race car, with enough things put on it to be streetable. the viper is in all obviousness, the better car of the two.
what is very interesting, though, is that a race car was only .04 quicker around the ring than a hot rod.
i'd still take the vette. not because i don;t like dodge....i drive a dodge, but because i friggin hate that buzz that the v-10 makes.
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actually, it looked more like the vette dude was a little incompetent.
sub-8mins in anything is borderline heroic ...
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sub-8mins in anything is borderline heroic ...
i wasn't talking about the long vid...i was talking about the quick clip that showed the vette dude driving off the track at the corner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYmmcdN_qLU
this one. look at it starting at the .08 mark. dudes on the brakes, possibly a little early...and is already in the wrong place. he should be farther out to the left at that point, allowing himself a better angle into that turn.
instead, he kind of "yanks" the car out to the edge, then "tosses" her into the turn, and at .10, you can see, he's not into that turn deeply enough. he was off the brakes at a decent time, but at .11, he's in the middle of the track, whereas he should be almost clipping the edge of the track deeeep in the turn. at .12, you can see he's pretty much lost it, not due to a tire problem, but rather due to the poor driving. .13 is where he heads off track.....can't tell if he locked his tires or not, but this all happened because he was "throwing" his car around the track. no flow at all.
from the camera perspective, the viper looks like he was driving much better, and just "straightening out" the turns, with nice smooth, flowing driving.
i could be wrong......but that's how i interpreted this.
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ok I see :D
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ok I see :D
read up again....just modified to try to explain why i said what i said. :aok
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-shrug- .. Viper's a nice car.
Vette owned GT-1 for a number of years .. they went to GT-2 because no one wanted to play in GT-1 anymore.
The vette's dominated it. For years.
Now they're runnin a smaller motor, and givin Ferrarri and all the other GT-2 cars a hard time .. fun to watch :)
Figure if Viper was all that fast they'd be up front?
I like the Viper's looks .. but the Vette just takes my breath away.
And it sounds better.
And it's fast .. pesky lil small block just keeps on keepin on, yanno?
Who would have thought you could get a 630hp small block in a Vette, right off the showroom floor?
I never did.
Put an L-88 vette right on the trailer -shakes head- .. I mean.
-Frank
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Figure if Viper was all that fast they'd be up front?
Are you kidding? Viper has won the FIA GT Championship three times. Three class wins at LeMans and an overall win in the 2000 Daytona 24 hours. After 2001, the factory withdrew support and only privateers have been racing the Viper. Despite this, it continues to rack up wins, including back to back British GT championships in 2007 and 2008.
I'd say that the Vipers have been up front much of the time...
My regards,
Widewing
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# 2008 British GT Championship - won by J. Gornall & J. Barnes
# 2007 British GT Championship - won by B. Ellis & A. Mortimer
# 2007 Brazilian GT3 Championship
# 2007 24 hours of Nurburgring - SP8 Class, won by team Zakspeed
# 2006 Australian GT Championship - won by Greg Crick
# 2006 Dutch Supercar Challenge - won by Hans Ambaum
# 2006 Formula D - Championship - won by Samuel Hubinette
# 2006 24 hours of Nurburgring - SP8 Class, won by team Zakspeed
# 2006 24 hours of Spa G3 - won by team Signa Racing
# 2005 FFSA GT Championship - won by O. Thevenin & P. Bornhauser
# 2005 24 hours of Nurburgring - A8 Class, won by P. Zakowski, R. Lechner & S. Bert
# 2004 SCCA Speed GT - Drivers Championship won by Tommy Archer
# 2004 FFSA GT Championship - won by P. Bornhauser
# 2004 Formula D - Championship, won by Samuel Hubinette
# 2004 Belcar Championship
# 2004 Italian GT Championship
# 2004 1000 Miles of Brazil - won by S. Zonca, A Lancellotti & F. Gollin
# 2003 FFSA GT Championship - won by D. Defourny & P. Goueslard
# 2003 Belcar Championship - won by Team GLPK
# 2003 Italian GT Championship - won by Team Racing Box
# 2003 Swedish GTR Championship - won by Team Tre Q AB
# 2003 EuroSeries GT Championship - won by Team Michael Martin Racing System
# 2002 FIA GT Championship – GT1 Drivers, won by Christophe Bouchut
# 2002 FIA GT Championship – GT1 Teams, won by Larbre Competition
# 2002 Belcar Championship - won by Team GLPK
# 2002 Swedish GTR Championship - won by Team OKA Racing
# 2002 24 hours of Nurburgring - Overall victory, won by Peter Zakowski, R. Lechner & P. Lamy
# 2002 Spa 24 Hours - won by C. Bouchut, S. Bourdais, D. Terrien & V. Vosse
# 2001 FIA GT Championship – GT1 Drivers, won by Christophe Bouchut & Jean-Philippe Belloc
# 2001 FIA GT Championship – GT1 Teams, won by Larbre Competition
# 2001 FFSA GT Championship - won by D. Dupuy & F. Fiat
# 2001 24 hours of Nurburgring - Overall victory, won by Peter Zakowski, M. Bartels & P. Lamy
# 2001 Spa 24 Hours - won by C. Bouchut, J.P. Belloc & M. Duez
# 2001 1000km of Fuji Endurance Race
# 2001 Belcar Championship - won by Team GLPK
# 2001 Swedish GTR Championship - won by Team OKA Racing
# 2000 FFSA GT Championship - won by D. Dupuy & F. Fiat
# 2000 Grand-Am - GT2 Class Champion
# 2000 24 Hours of Daytona - Overall victory
# 2000 American Le Mans Series - Class Champion, Team Oreca
# 2000 24 Hours of Le Mans - GTS Class 1st and 2nd place, won by team Oreca
# 1999 FIA GT Championship – Drivers, won by Olivier Beretta & Karl Wendlinger
# 1999 FIA GT Championship – Teams, won by Viper Team Oreca
# 1999 24 Hours of Le Mans - GTS Class 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th place finishes, won by Team Oreca
# 1999 American Le Mans Series - Class Champion, Team Oreca
# 1999 VLN German Championship Series - Won every race of season (10/10), Team Zakspeed
# 1999 24 hours of Nurburgring - Overall victory, won by Peter Zakowski, H.J. Tiemann, K. Ludwig & M. Duez
# 1998 FIA GT Championship – GT2 Drivers, won by Olivier Beretta & Pedro Lamy
# 1998 FIA GT Championship – GT2 Teams, won by Viper Team Oreca
# 1998 24 Hours of Le Mans GT2 Class 1st and 2nd , won by Team Oreca, First series production based American car to win at Le Mans
# 1997 FIA GT Championship – GT2 Drivers, won by Justin Bell
# 1997 FIA GT Championship – GT2 Teams, won by Viper Team Oreca
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yup that zakspeed viper has been monstering the 24h ring race for years...
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# 2008 British GT Championship - won by J. Gornall & J. Barnes
# 2007 British GT Championship - won by B. Ellis & A. Mortimer
# 2007 Brazilian GT3 Championship
# 2007 24 hours of Nurburgring - SP8 Class, won by team Zakspeed
# 2006 Australian GT Championship - won by Greg Crick
# 2006 Dutch Supercar Challenge - won by Hans Ambaum
# 2006 Formula D - Championship - won by Samuel Hubinette
# 2006 24 hours of Nurburgring - SP8 Class, won by team Zakspeed
# 2006 24 hours of Spa G3 - won by team Signa Racing
# 2005 FFSA GT Championship - won by O. Thevenin & P. Bornhauser
# 2005 24 hours of Nurburgring - A8 Class, won by P. Zakowski, R. Lechner & S. Bert
# 2004 SCCA Speed GT - Drivers Championship won by Tommy Archer
# 2004 FFSA GT Championship - won by P. Bornhauser
# 2004 Formula D - Championship, won by Samuel Hubinette
# 2004 Belcar Championship
# 2004 Italian GT Championship
# 2004 1000 Miles of Brazil - won by S. Zonca, A Lancellotti & F. Gollin
# 2003 FFSA GT Championship - won by D. Defourny & P. Goueslard
# 2003 Belcar Championship - won by Team GLPK
# 2003 Italian GT Championship - won by Team Racing Box
# 2003 Swedish GTR Championship - won by Team Tre Q AB
# 2003 EuroSeries GT Championship - won by Team Michael Martin Racing System
# 2002 FIA GT Championship – GT1 Drivers, won by Christophe Bouchut
# 2002 FIA GT Championship – GT1 Teams, won by Larbre Competition
# 2002 Belcar Championship - won by Team GLPK
# 2002 Swedish GTR Championship - won by Team OKA Racing
# 2002 24 hours of Nurburgring - Overall victory, won by Peter Zakowski, R. Lechner & P. Lamy
# 2002 Spa 24 Hours - won by C. Bouchut, S. Bourdais, D. Terrien & V. Vosse
# 2001 FIA GT Championship – GT1 Drivers, won by Christophe Bouchut & Jean-Philippe Belloc
# 2001 FIA GT Championship – GT1 Teams, won by Larbre Competition
# 2001 FFSA GT Championship - won by D. Dupuy & F. Fiat
# 2001 24 hours of Nurburgring - Overall victory, won by Peter Zakowski, M. Bartels & P. Lamy
# 2001 Spa 24 Hours - won by C. Bouchut, J.P. Belloc & M. Duez
# 2001 1000km of Fuji Endurance Race
# 2001 Belcar Championship - won by Team GLPK
# 2001 Swedish GTR Championship - won by Team OKA Racing
# 2000 FFSA GT Championship - won by D. Dupuy & F. Fiat
# 2000 Grand-Am - GT2 Class Champion
# 2000 24 Hours of Daytona - Overall victory
# 2000 American Le Mans Series - Class Champion, Team Oreca
# 2000 24 Hours of Le Mans - GTS Class 1st and 2nd place, won by team Oreca
# 1999 FIA GT Championship – Drivers, won by Olivier Beretta & Karl Wendlinger
# 1999 FIA GT Championship – Teams, won by Viper Team Oreca
# 1999 24 Hours of Le Mans - GTS Class 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th place finishes, won by Team Oreca
# 1999 American Le Mans Series - Class Champion, Team Oreca
# 1999 VLN German Championship Series - Won every race of season (10/10), Team Zakspeed
# 1999 24 hours of Nurburgring - Overall victory, won by Peter Zakowski, H.J. Tiemann, K. Ludwig & M. Duez
# 1998 FIA GT Championship – GT2 Drivers, won by Olivier Beretta & Pedro Lamy
# 1998 FIA GT Championship – GT2 Teams, won by Viper Team Oreca
# 1998 24 Hours of Le Mans GT2 Class 1st and 2nd , won by Team Oreca, First series production based American car to win at Le Mans
# 1997 FIA GT Championship – GT2 Drivers, won by Justin Bell
# 1997 FIA GT Championship – GT2 Teams, won by Viper Team Oreca
WW & You have cleaned up in this thread. Kudos.
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So I'm guessin the Viper does ok then?
:O
Shame Dodge doesn't do a factory team .. whole reason Vette went to GT-2 from GT-1 was no one wanted to race 'em in GT-1 anymore.
Couple here in town I have seen do 10's in the 1/4 ..street driven cept for the slicks they gotta put on to hook em up.
-shrug- .. more than a few vette's do the same or better.
Some of the guys in our Vette club own Vipers also .. laughingly referred to as the 'clown shoe' :)
-GE (just sayin)
-very evil grin-
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Unless they have changed the Corvette outperforms the Viper by a good bit while in the daily driver role.
Strip
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So I'm guessin the Viper does ok then?
:O
Shame Dodge doesn't do a factory team .. whole reason Vette went to GT-2 from GT-1 was no one wanted to race 'em in GT-1 anymore.
Couple here in town I have seen do 10's in the 1/4 ..street driven cept for the slicks they gotta put on to hook em up.
-shrug- .. more than a few vette's do the same or better.
Some of the guys in our Vette club own Vipers also .. laughingly referred to as the 'clown shoe' :)
-GE (just sayin)
-very evil grin-
a friend of mine has 2 vipers. he's supercharged one of em. that;'s the one he's taking to georgia in a week or so. he's driving it. he's going for 9.2's, as he drove it there.
he doesn't have a cage in it. i tried to talk him out of it, as....well.....you're a racer.....you know what's gonna happen to him at those speeds is anything at ALL goes wrong.
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Maybe the track will have enough brains for the both of them....
Strip
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Aye CAP .. always puzzles me why someone would stuff 1k hp into a car then think a cage is just not needed and a pain to deal with?
Excuse me?
How'd ya like to eat thru a straw the rest of your life ..among many other possibilities.
It doesn't take much ..a little oil ..a moment distraction ..just plain doin something wrong ..or breakage.
All very real, all can change your life in a heartbeat.
Better to be bruised and mebbe a bit broken than maimed or dead.
Just my 2 copper.
-GE
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Aye CAP .. always puzzles me why someone would stuff 1k hp into a car then think a cage is just not needed and a pain to deal with?
Excuse me?
How'd ya like to eat thru a straw the rest of your life ..among many other possibilities.
It doesn't take much ..a little oil ..a moment distraction ..just plain doin something wrong ..or breakage.
All very real, all can change your life in a heartbeat.
Better to be bruised and mebbe a bit broken than maimed or dead.
Just my 2 copper.
-GE
I've been stewing on that. for days now. i called him today, to remind him it would only take a tiny thing. a split second. less than the blink of an eye at the speeds he'd be going.
as it turns out(thankfully) there wasn't enough participants entered, and the race is canceled. :aok
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New Viper ACR-X is shown... Shatters Laguna Seca record of Viper ACR.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20091210/CARNEWS/912109991 (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20091210/CARNEWS/912109991)
My regards,
Widewing