Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Kazaa on November 26, 2009, 05:04:52 AM
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Source http://www.facebook.com/#/photo.php?pid=830089&id=1388526347&fbid=1281611565571
(http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/Luke_831/11442_1281611565571_1388526347_8300.jpg)
Thoughts?
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I'd have to rebuild my simpit to make those fit! :D
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Those are the military grade sticks they are making for the USAF, I haven't seen any announcement to make those sticks available to the public.
However, with Thrustmaster and Logitech both releasing a dual throttle I figure it is a matter of time before CH follows suit.
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Got a link to the Thrustmaster dual throttle? Really disappointed in my Logitech G940, which developed horrible spiking on the rudder pedals just past the Amazon.com 30-day return period.
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Those are the military grade sticks they are making for the USAF, I haven't seen any announcement to make those sticks available to the public.
However, with Thrustmaster and Logitech both releasing a dual throttle I figure it is a matter of time before CH follows suit.
From the Facebook comments--
Chproducts Debby
At the MOMENT, these are designed for military applications only. That doesn't mean we *can't* modify for the consumer market.
Patience.... ;-)
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That stick looks big enough to be center mounted. hmmm
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TM has one as well and yes that mount does look like a center mount to me but from the pictures I have seen posted over at simhq.com in the TM A-10 HOTAS thread the A-10C doesn't have a side stick mount...not that it would stop me from using it as a side stick though.
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Meh.....
You want to use the dual throttle for separate things (RPM and throttle) that's fine... but trying to fine-tune each indivudually with odd shaped throttle heads and bizarre angle buttons is going to be an ergonomical nightmare.
The stick looks okay (aside from the giant mounting box), but honestly, most of CH's sticks all look alike. They need to work on style and layout more, and they always go with the same type of stick every time. It's okay, but IMO disappointing for me to have no variety from CH.
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Meh.....
You want to use the dual throttle for separate things (RPM and throttle) that's fine... but trying to fine-tune each indivudually with odd shaped throttle heads and bizarre angle buttons is going to be an ergonomical nightmare.
The stick looks okay (aside from the giant mounting box), but honestly, most of CH's sticks all look alike. They need to work on style and layout more, and they always go with the same type of stick every time. It's okay, but IMO disappointing for me to have no variety from CH.
I agree. Whilst the CH Fighterstick is way ahead of - for example - the Saitek X52 in terms of quality, the X52 layout is much more ergonomic IMHO. Realism is all very good, but just because a layout matches the F-16 or whatever doesn't mean it can't be bettered.
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The stick looks okay (aside from the giant mounting box), but honestly, most of CH's sticks all look alike. They need to work on style and layout more, and they always go with the same type of stick every time. It's okay, but IMO disappointing for me to have no variety from CH.
The reason why the uniform look to all of their joysticks is to save on the cost of manufacturing. One basic look lets them use only one mold for their joysticks.
ack-ack
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Might work for the military, but different gamers have different sized hands, and have different styles of gameplay (hard grip, soft grip, relaxed, tense), and one reason I don't like CH sticks is they don't allow any variation. Imagine if every car in the world was a Yugo, but some just had a few different buttons, or door handles in different spots. Quite boring, no?
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Might work for the military, but different gamers have different sized hands, and have different styles of gameplay (hard grip, soft grip, relaxed, tense), and one reason I don't like CH sticks is they don't allow any variation. Imagine if every car in the world was a Yugo, but some just had a few different buttons, or door handles in different spots. Quite boring, no?
then why don't you give them the $20,000+ it costs to create a new mold for their sticks? At least that was the price to create a new mold when I worked at CH about 12 years ago.
ack-ack
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Considering their reputation as a leading name in the industry, they probably have the profits to pay for it themselves ;)
But then, I never worked in that field, so can't comment on costs. I would suggest, however, that maybe THEIR process cost 20 grand, but other companies churn out different stick shapes all the time. There are probably more cost-effective ways of doing it.
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Golly-gee, $20,000.00! Ack-Ack, did you use gold plating to make those molds back then?
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Considering their reputation as a leading name in the industry, they probably have the profits to pay for it themselves ;)
Having a leading reputation in the industry doesn't always translate to having $$$$ on hand to spend. It's a fact that the reason why CH has not changed the overall design of their Fighterstick line (this includes the Combat Stick) is because of the cost to create a new mold. CH gear is manufactured entirely in their Vista plant which also doubles as their warehouse and commercial offices (2nd floor was reserved for Chuck's airplane construction) and because the gear is entirely made in the United States and the special plastic they use, the manufacturing costs are also higher than the competition's.
They're still using the same Fighterstick and Combatstick mold that was created in 1996. The only profitable part of CH is their OEM division which has nothing to do with their commercial consumer division.
ack-ack
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Golly-gee, $20,000.00! Ack-Ack, did you use gold plating to make those molds back then?
I was a little suprised at the cost when I was shown the molds (it's actually two molds for each half of the stick) and the sheer size of the molds. I would have thought for a joystick mold, it wouldn't really be that big of a mold but I was definitely wrong. I don't remember the exact dimensions but it was about the size of a medium to large box and weighed over 500 pounds. From what I was told, most of the cost was for the metals and the machining of the new mold. For a small family owned company, $20 grand is a lot to spend.
Now that they are no longer family owned and bought out by some large Euro company, maybe they have the money now to change the designs of the Fightertick and Combatstick.
ack-ack
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$20k is cheap for an injection mold of that size.
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I was going to say exactly what SIK1 said here; injection molding and only spending $20k for the molds on sticks is a super cheap deal. Yes the other aspects of it that they have to do like machining the parts once they come out for final fit and finish is going to eat away at the overall profit but I can guarantee that with the sheer numbers of fightersticks that have been sold for $100 each in the last 12 years those molds have more than paid for themselves a few times over.
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I was a little suprised at the cost when I was shown the molds (it's actually two molds for each half of the stick) and the sheer size of the molds. I would have thought for a joystick mold, it wouldn't really be that big of a mold but I was definitely wrong. I don't remember the exact dimensions but it was about the size of a medium to large box and weighed over 500 pounds. From what I was told, most of the cost was for the metals and the machining of the new mold. For a small family owned company, $20 grand is a lot to spend.
Now that they are no longer family owned and bought out by some large Euro company, maybe they have the money now to change the designs of the Fightertick and Combatstick.
ack-ack
Dam, I never knew moulds could be so expensive.
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Dam, I never knew moulds could be so expensive.
Only initial start up costs for cheap skates like us think that is expensive. Its really cheap when compared to the rest of the manufacturing process and how much money goes into the rest of the design. Although I think the design has more than paid for itself a few dozen times over.
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I guess all you would need to do is sell 200 sticks before you started to make a profit. :aok
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Which stick is more widely used? Fighter stick or Combat stick?
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I agree. Whilst the CH Fighterstick is way ahead of - for example - the Saitek X52 in terms of quality, the X52 layout is much more ergonomic IMHO. Realism is all very good, but just because a layout matches the F-16 or whatever doesn't mean it can't be bettered.
My X-52 lasted a whole six months. Lost the Throttle pot itself (had to use the slider on the Throttle, for throttle). I lost two hat switches on the Stick, lost the trigger.
There is no comparison between the Saitek Sticks and the CH Fighterstick, I've had for the last 1.5 years. No comparison.
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My X-52 lasted a whole six months. Lost the Throttle pot itself (had to use the slider on the Throttle, for throttle). I lost two hat switches on the Stick, lost the trigger.
There is no comparison between the Saitek Sticks and the CH Fighterstick, I've had for the last 1.5 years. No comparison.
I agree. I had my X53 for 8 months before I lost the use of one of the hat switches. I constantly had a problem with it spiking, no matter what the scaling was. Went to a CH Fighterstick and couldn't be happier.
Fred
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I was going to say,
the more "ergonomic" designs that people like do not happen in a vacuum. Part of the reliablility of the CH stuff is undoubtedly tied to the generous internal room allowed by their "un ergonomic" design. I have big hands and I like it fine, but I can see that smaller hand people would be challenged by it.
As the design gets more ergonomic, and more buttons and wigets get added the interior gets more challenging to design and wire in a way that is relatively(consumer) inexpensive to manufacture and reliable in operation.
CH has had hands down the best combination of those considerations for years and years now. All the other companies sticks fit the hand better and look more fancy. I have had them all, but they are all crap compared to the CH stuff.
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Which stick (layout) is more compareable to an X52?
Fighter stick or Combat stick?
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Which stick (layout) is more compareable to an X52?
Fighter stick or Combat stick?
Neither.
The fighter stick has two extra 4 way hats over the combat sticks. One replaces the thumb button and the other replaces the bottom right button, on the head.
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Which stick is more widely used? Fighter stick or Combat stick?
I wouldn't know what to say to this but I do believe that both the Fighterstick and the Combatstick would use the same mould.
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I wouldn't know what to say to this but I do believe that both the Fighterstick and the Combatstick would use the same mould.
Yes, same stick different button configuration.
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I wouldn't know what to say to this but I do believe that both the Fighterstick and the Combatstick would use the same mould.
I think they used two seperate molds like they did with the old CH Yokes.
ack-ack
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My X-52 lasted a whole six months. Lost the Throttle pot itself (had to use the slider on the Throttle, for throttle). I lost two hat switches on the Stick, lost the trigger.
I have seen where these pots go bad, seems to be common. to bad they don't make a stronger pot or make them easy to replace.
I have one and the hat switch pot has gone out also. I took it apart to look at it, looks like a hassle to remove and replace and only place I can see of getting parts would be from saitek. I have googled for saitek parts bout everyway I can think of with no results.
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I have seen where these pots go bad, seems to be common. to bad they don't make a stronger pot or make them easy to replace.
I have one and the hat switch pot has gone out also. I took it apart to look at it, looks like a hassle to remove and replace and only place I can see of getting parts would be from saitek. I have googled for saitek parts bout everyway I can think of with no results.
Saitek doesn't do parts for their joysticks. The bottom line is they are like most of the other asian companies when it comes to replacements...."we give you new one, we take back bad one." IF you bought the extended warranty...aka covered the cost of manufacturing for them on the second one.
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This is actually quite an exciting time, here I thought that the upscale, high fidelity sim market was dead and whammo, 4 new high end HOTASes show up (well, 3 1/2 that is, until CH confirms the civvie version of theirs - and we know they will). No company has gotten it completely right yet but I like elements of each of Logitech's, Saitek's and TM's offerings. BTW, here's a composite pic of TM's HOTAS Warthog from the flash ad on the website:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v621/jocko417/TMHOTASWARTHOG.jpg)
TM has gone whole hog (no pun intended) and put all the same switches you find on the A-10 throttle panel on the HOTAS - Flap lever, friction adjuster, even the APU and engine fuel flow controls. Aft of that is another small switch panel which is (I think) the autopilot controls in the RL A-10C. It's a great idea for virtual A-10C pilots who are waiting for DCS's new sim but other than the friction and flap controls the average cartoon WWII pilot will have to ignore all the placarded switch titles and imagine he's selecting a bomb to drop while pushing the landing gear warning horn cutout button. Or whatever.
Saitek gets my nod for best generic controller, and I like the switch panel mount ahead of the throttles, but they lost me with their force sensing stick. I don't care much for today's plastic uber jets so I don't want an F-16-style force stick to fly WWII prop jobs. Time will tell if Saitek made a good design decision there.
Watching and waiting...
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I like the look of the X65. Would be great to try a stick with force sencing.
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I guess all you would need to do is sell 200 sticks before you started to make a profit. :aok
Or just 1 to the United States Government
;)