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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Unit791 on November 27, 2009, 04:28:48 PM

Title: Lets get this straight
Post by: Unit791 on November 27, 2009, 04:28:48 PM
Ok, heres the deal, apparently HiTech made this new thing where whoever takes off the vital part of the enemy airframe gets the kill right?  I have yet to see this work for i continually get assists when I blow someones tail or wing off, some zipcode flys below me, pelts the plane with bullets, and I get an assist.  Explain.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: AirFlyer on November 27, 2009, 04:50:30 PM
Chances are that person already has a significant amount of damage done to him. The new system does not guarantee you a kill if you knock out a vital part, but rather once that vital part is broken it stops others from stealing your kill by shooting it. If someone had already put a ton of bullets into an enemy plane and then you get the one hit wonder that breaks a wing, you won't get the kill.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: warhed on November 27, 2009, 04:56:18 PM
Chances are that person already has a significant amount of damage done to him. The new system does not guarantee you a kill if you knock out a vital part, but rather once that vital part is broken it stops others from stealing your kill by shooting it. If someone had already put a ton of bullets into an enemy plane and then you get the one hit wonder that breaks a wing, you won't get the kill.

If that's the case, then some clarification is needed.

#

# Changed plane damage scoring so that any further damage that is done after a critical component is destroyed is not counted towards the scoring of the kill and assists. Critical components are as follows: complete (not partial) wing loss on one side, loss of all horizontal stabilizers, loss of all vertical stabilizers, loss of rear fuselage, and fuel fires.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: fbEagle on November 27, 2009, 05:21:43 PM
Well yesterday I was flying a La7 and shot the vertical & horizontal stabalizers off a Lancaster while there was noone around then a friekin zip code (like youi said) flew in and folowed the bomber to the water and shot off its left wing. This was after i shot it out of the sky, while the bomber was falling and he got the kill and i get the assist.  :mad:
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: ImADot on November 27, 2009, 05:30:53 PM
You killed him...you know it, he knows it.  That's all that matters.  The rest is for score potatoes and insecure people that need to see their name in lights to justify their existance.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: morfiend on November 27, 2009, 05:32:19 PM
 Just fly infront of the noob trying to kill your kill and let kill shooter take care of it!

   :salute
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Nemisis on November 27, 2009, 05:41:09 PM
I know its kind of abusive of the check 6 thing, but I've seen it used to drag kill stealers away. Or just fire a warning shot in his general direction and tell him to cut the crap.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: morfiend on November 27, 2009, 05:47:45 PM
You killed him...you know it, he knows it.  That's all that matters.  The rest is for score potatoes and insecure people that need to see their name in lights to justify their existance.

 QFT!!

  Thx Dot,cracked me up...   Oh and nemisis firing a shot to warn is stupid,if you hit them you damage yourself,but if you played the game you'd know that. :uhoh
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Nemisis on November 27, 2009, 05:50:51 PM
I do know that. But if you're accurate, your shots will pass by him. Won't work without tracers though.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: ZZee on November 27, 2009, 06:26:41 PM
I do think the current model needs some fine tuning. It does seem a lot of times the least deserving person is awarded the kill.


Z
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Lusche on November 27, 2009, 06:28:47 PM
I do think the current model needs some fine tuning. It does seem a lot of times the least deserving person is awarded the kill.


Z

how would you (or the program) determine the "most deserving person" ?
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Chalenge on November 27, 2009, 06:48:32 PM
Thats easy... all questionable kills should be awarded to ME whether I am online or not.  :devil
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: warhed on November 27, 2009, 07:08:45 PM
I thought the kill awarding was changed to who took the vital part off first.  Is it that, or who puts more damage into the aircraft BEFORE a vital part is taken off?
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Unit791 on November 27, 2009, 07:13:04 PM
Fire a warning shot?


And waste ammo?  :rofl
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Lusche on November 27, 2009, 07:14:57 PM
I thought the kill awarding was changed to who took the vital part off first.  Is it that, or who puts more damage into the aircraft BEFORE a vital part is taken off?

You quoted it yourself:

"Changed plane damage scoring so that any further damage that is done after a critical component is destroyed is not counted towards the scoring of the kill and assists."

The system is still the same: Whoever caused most damage gets the kill. Which doesn't necessarily have to be a visible component being shot off. The change is just that any hits made after a critical component has been destroyed do not count anymore.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: warhed on November 27, 2009, 07:19:32 PM
You quoted it yourself:

"Changed plane damage scoring so that any further damage that is done after a critical component is destroyed is not counted towards the scoring of the kill and assists."

The system is still the same: Whoever caused most damage gets the kill. Which doesn't necessarily have to be a visible component being shot off. The change is just that any hits made after a critical component has been destroyed do not count anymore.

OK, just one more time because I'm a little slow...  :D
If someone puts a lot of bullets into an aircraft, but does not take a vital part off, and then I come along and take a wing off with one round, I will not get the kill correct?  Thank you for clarifying sir
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Lusche on November 27, 2009, 07:27:15 PM
OK, just one more time because I'm a little slow...  :D
If someone puts a lot of bullets into an aircraft, but does not take a vital part off, and then I come along and take a wing off with one round, I will not get the kill correct?

Most likely you won't, unless his "lots of bullets" where .303's and your single round a 30mm ;)

Yesterday I put a lot of 303s into a B25H which finally lost it's wing... did get an assist though, 'cause another player had previously but some .50 cal's into it without any visible effect.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: bagrat on November 28, 2009, 01:34:47 AM
Bagrats Sure fire method to getting kills.

1. shoot em till they blow up (i like to hear teh boom boom)
2. dont fly wit large hordes 
3. fly K4
 :aok

i like the enemy to know I killed em, building animosity amongst enemy makes for fun... otherwise why not go play golf or somethin
 
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Latrobe on November 28, 2009, 01:38:44 AM
Are all the kill stealers on the Bishop side?? I fly Knights and Rooks and have only seen someone purposely chase a plane to the ground for the kill when they knew it was already dead maybe twice a year.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Rich46yo on November 28, 2009, 04:54:04 AM
Well I decided from now on when some dolt is shooting over my shoulder I'm going to veer violently into his bullet stream. Cause if I'm 600 from the con, and he's 400 in back of me, then he's 1,000 from the con and is just being silly, selfish, and stupid.

Yesterday I almost got kill/shot cause some P-51 pilot flew in front of my IL2 to strafe a T-34 with his MGs. :huh

I like both the Rooks and Nits, the 2 sides I fly, but both pretty much have the equal amount of cheese shooters. Cheese shooting is a big reason why I dont like furballing and prefer desperate defense and GV hunting.

The worst kind of cheese shooting isn't shooting shot up and dead aircraft falling from the sky. While that happens its kinda rare. More often its the guy zooming in at 500 mph, while your just squeezing off 300 from the con, after working for position for long minutes, and not just stealing your kill but causing a kill/shot of you.

I dont think there is anything wrong with the modeling. Only the playing.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: B4Buster on November 28, 2009, 07:38:35 AM
I give my squadies who have a thing for stealing my kills, not going to mention any names *cough* (shamus) *cough* *cough* a fake check 6 to try and scare them away.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Unit791 on November 28, 2009, 08:20:34 AM
You killed him...you know it, he knows it.  That's all that matters.  The rest is for score potatoes and insecure people that need to see their name in lights to justify their existance.

Well if you go by that philosophy, than what would be the point of having a kill-counter?  Or announce how many kills you got?
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: trigger2 on November 28, 2009, 09:14:13 AM
I see an easy way to fix this. :devil

Most countries, rather than awarding assists, would award "partial kills." For example, if three people were to help take down the plane, each would get 1/3 of a kill. Sounds fair. :D

"Trigger2 landed (insert sideways 8) and 1/4 kills in a B-24J of all things"
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: BnZs on November 28, 2009, 11:21:00 AM
Ok, heres the deal, apparently HiTech made this new thing where whoever takes off the vital part of the enemy airframe gets the kill right?  I have yet to see this work for i continually get assists when I blow someones tail or wing off, some zipcode flys below me, pelts the plane with bullets, and I get an assist.  Explain.

No. IIRC, they changed it to wear damage *AFTER* a vital part (whole wing, etc) is shot off no longer counts, IOW, no stealing the kill by shooting at spiraling wreckage.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Spikes on November 28, 2009, 11:28:24 AM
Lol a "warning shot" Rarely works.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: morfiend on November 28, 2009, 06:39:35 PM
Well if you go by that philosophy, than what would be the point of having a kill-counter?  Or announce how many kills you got?

 I guess you didnt read the last 4 words of Dot"s post. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Nemisis on November 28, 2009, 07:01:03 PM
Fire a warning shot?


And waste ammo?  :rofl

I'm flying A-8's with MG ammo coming out the a**.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: ImADot on November 29, 2009, 12:53:57 AM
Well if you go by that philosophy, than what would be the point of having a kill-counter?  Or announce how many kills you got?

It's a game, and most games have some kind of scoring system; so for those of you who care, HTC came up with something.  For those of us who don't care, we just fly around and enjoy the fights.  Besides, score and rank are easily manipulated - so mean absolutely nothing except to make it easy to know who the score potatoes and insecure people are who need to see their name in lights to justify their existance.   :aok
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: waystin2 on November 29, 2009, 09:54:58 AM
It is so hard to steal squaddies kills now!  Fix it Hitech! :rofl
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: LCCajun on November 29, 2009, 10:13:43 AM
You killed him...you know it, he knows it.  That's all that matters.  The rest is for score potatoes and insecure people that need to see their name in lights to justify their existance.

Amen best answer yet.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: warhed on November 29, 2009, 02:25:27 PM
Amen best answer yet.

Take out kill awarding, see how long the game would last  :aok
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: ImADot on November 29, 2009, 02:30:57 PM
Nobody's asking to remove the scoring and name in lights.  Some of us just don't care whether it's there or not.  Unfortunately, there are those among us who care so much about it, that they game the game or fly so timidly that there's no such thing as a good fight with them.  I have never been one to yell and scream about these such people, but I do voice my opinion.  If I find an area where these players are, and don't get any good fights from them, I just go somewhere else.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: warhed on November 29, 2009, 02:51:12 PM
Nobody's asking to remove the scoring and name in lights.  Some of us just don't care whether it's there or not.  Unfortunately, there are those among us who care so much about it, that they game the game or fly so timidly that there's no such thing as a good fight with them.  I have never been one to yell and scream about these such people, but I do voice my opinion.  If I find an area where these players are, and don't get any good fights from them, I just go somewhere else.

I highly highly doubt removing kill awarding would make timid players any less timid.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: stodd on November 29, 2009, 02:52:44 PM
 Oh and nemisis firing a shot to warn is stupid,if you hit them you damage yourself,but if you played the game you'd know that. :uhoh
:rofl

If I were in that situation and someone was trying to steal a kill id just say over vox, "check 6 <dweeb's name> high 190 diveing on you.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: ZZee on November 29, 2009, 04:08:04 PM
Quote
how would you (or the program) determine the "most deserving person" ?

Lusche,
 
The most deserving would be the one who caused the plummet toward the tierra firma. I have blown planes up that were flying AND fighting as if no damage, without getting as much as an assist.



I understand what the current model is trying to do, but i just think that it needs refinement. I dont have any examples/evidence at present of the shortcomings, but I will try to remember to film some or remember the particular instance.

I dont ever remember being upset with the old damage model/scoring system to the point that I would have changed it.

 :cheers:

Z

Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: guncrasher on November 29, 2009, 08:05:46 PM
Lusche,
 
The most deserving would be the one who caused the plummet toward the tierra firma. I have blown planes up that were flying AND fighting as if no damage, without getting as much as an assist.



I understand what the current model is trying to do, but i just think that it needs refinement. I dont have any examples/evidence at present of the shortcomings, but I will try to remember to film some or remember the particular instance.

I dont ever remember being upset with the old damage model/scoring system to the point that I would have changed it.

 :cheers:

Z



zzee, i think there's a bug on the system, since i have shot down some planes where nobody else was around without so much as an assist.  another thing to point out is when in a furball (and i have checked this in my films) i am sure my bullets were doing all the damage when actually a frindlies bullets being shot from behind me were striking the plane.  I dont care about that, since i tell everybody that asks me, is never to ask me if they have a shot take it.  but in my case i dont care about score.  and then again i am surprised because there's times when somebody else will take 1/2 wing off a plane, engine smoking and they let it go thinking that it's gonna crash.  I always let them know to come back and finish it because its flying away, they refuse i shoot a couple of bb's to make it bail and I end up with the kill, go figure.



semp
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: warhed on November 29, 2009, 08:27:29 PM
zzee, i think there's a bug on the system, since i have shot down some planes where nobody else was around without so much as an assist.  another thing to point out is when in a furball (and i have checked this in my films) i am sure my bullets were doing all the damage when actually a frindlies bullets being shot from behind me were striking the plane.  I dont care about that, since i tell everybody that asks me, is never to ask me if they have a shot take it.  but in my case i dont care about score.  and then again i am surprised because there's times when somebody else will take 1/2 wing off a plane, engine smoking and they let it go thinking that it's gonna crash.  I always let them know to come back and finish it because its flying away, they refuse i shoot a couple of bb's to make it bail and I end up with the kill, go figure.



semp

FYI, wing tips are not considered vital parts in the system. 
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: ImADot on November 29, 2009, 10:31:00 PM
As I've said before, I care not but for the fight...but something happened tonight that is kind of funny.

I was in my Hurri-Mk1 in EW, flew to a red-guy base waiting for a guy to up again (he just attacked my base as I logged in).  He ups a Brew and has another in a Hurri-Mk2c and we start at it.  I'm the only green on on my whole side at the moment.  He augers after a few passes, and I kill the 2c after another minute or so.  He ups another Brew (alone this time). We're twisting and turning on the deck, and I riddle his Brew with my .303's O' Death.  He pancakes, breaks off everthing and is on fire.  He towers for a successful ditch.  I don't see any message about the kill or the assist.  I would have at least liked to see something like:  "SYSTEM: Brewster killed by Mother Earth" :D.  

So, I think that perhaps the new damage/kill-credit routines have a slight bug (like guncrasher mentions).  I get a kill for an auger where I never touched him, but don't get a kill after peppering his plane, having him pancake and ditch.  And no, I didn't have film running :frown:.    And no, I still don't care if I get "credit" for a kill.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: AWwrgwy on November 30, 2009, 12:05:33 AM
A ditch is a ditch no matter how much you've shot him or what's left on the plane when he slides it in.

He survived.  Technically, so did his plane.

A ditch "behind enemy lines", however, is a "capture" and counts as a kill for you.

Location, location, location.

Haven't done it lately, but you used to be able to slide a burning plane in and the fire would go out.  With the new, limited burn times I don't think is would be possible any more.


wrongway
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: ZZee on November 30, 2009, 12:42:19 PM
As far as the ditch model goes,  i guess i dont fully understand the inner workings of the moedl.


I have seen guys in no-mans-land between bases ditch right below me after shooting his wing without getting anything. I have shot guys up and watch them run toward home and broken off the pursuit for one reason or another, then 5 minutes later i get a kill message. I know this could be them auguring, except the same has happened to me.

I'll fly home a sector (WELL away from bad guys/enemy bases) with smoking oil or something and slide short of the runway, ditch and someone will get the kill.

not that big of deal, but frustrating at times.



Z
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: stran on November 30, 2009, 03:42:26 PM
Lusche,
 
The most deserving would be the one who caused the plummet toward the tierra firma. I have blown planes up that were flying AND fighting as if no damage, without getting as much as an assist.

i agree.
i would rather not the the kill on a fight that i couldn't finish. i would want the kill on a fight the other guy couldn't finish and i had the capability to finish.
lets say a runner gets away from a slower plane and later engages with you. if you kill the runner you should get the kill.
if a runner gets away from you and is killed by your buddy who has the E to fight him, you don't deserve the kill.

so i'm saying the player who did the most damage may not have won the fight.
and this is not a biased opinion because my plane of choice is a TnB and not one of the fast planes.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Becinhu on November 30, 2009, 07:33:25 PM
     Killsteals do have a place among friends or squads at times.  don5090 and myself do it quite often to each other when the night has been boring.  Memorable example: We were winged up looking for small engagements to enter.  I spot a lone zeke climbing out from his base.  I make the call and start my approach. As I get 600 off and prepare to open up I hear over vox "B check six 262 right on your azz!!" I break hard and hear an explosion followed by "zero down" from don5090.  I say "Where's that 262. I can't see him!"  Don5090 replies with "Huh? What 262?"
     Needless to say I was pissed at the moment until don's maniacal laughter broke my bad mood.  I payed him back later by following a wounded duck F4u straight down hosing him all the way to steal don's kill.  We also play the "pick your buddies target game" ,of course this game must always start without your buddy being informed.  :t :cheers:
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Unit791 on November 30, 2009, 08:32:49 PM
As I've said before, I care not but for the fight...but something happened tonight that is kind of funny.

I was in my Hurri-Mk1 in EW, flew to a red-guy base waiting for a guy to up again (he just attacked my base as I logged in).  He ups a Brew and has another in a Hurri-Mk2c and we start at it.  I'm the only green on on my whole side at the moment.  He augers after a few passes, and I kill the 2c after another minute or so.  He ups another Brew (alone this time). We're twisting and turning on the deck, and I riddle his Brew with my .303's O' Death.  He pancakes, breaks off everthing and is on fire.  He towers for a successful ditch.  I don't see any message about the kill or the assist.  I would have at least liked to see something like:  "SYSTEM: Brewster killed by Mother Earth" :D.  

So, I think that perhaps the new damage/kill-credit routines have a slight bug (like guncrasher mentions).  I get a kill for an auger where I never touched him, but don't get a kill after peppering his plane, having him pancake and ditch.  And no, I didn't have film running :frown:.    And no, I still don't care if I get "credit" for a kill.


Two nights ago, I was in the twoer and scored a kill and an assist  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Saurdaukar on December 02, 2009, 08:44:58 AM
Most likely you won't, unless his "lots of bullets" where .303's and your single round a 30mm ;)

I take issue with that since I set a new record a few nights ago.  3x30mm hits = assist.

My kill/assist ratio is heavily skewed to the latter post-update. 

I dont understand how this scoring system really works at all.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: ImADot on December 02, 2009, 01:20:49 PM
Yet another reason to just enjoy the fights and don't worry about score.   :aok
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: Saurdaukar on December 02, 2009, 01:33:33 PM
Yet another reason to just enjoy the fights and don't worry about score.   :aok

I cant speak for others, but "score" isn't a concern of mine.

If I am correct, the new system was implemented because players were frustrated with their kills being "stolen" by other players.

A valid reason to be frustrated, in my opinion.  If I worked for it, I want it.  Nothing wrong with that.

However, since the update, I find that the already strange kill-awarding behavior with respect to the 30mm was made stranger, still.  How do you get an assist when you plant three 30mm hits on a 51 at 150 yards, from the engine to the cockpit, and not get the kill after he is vaporized?

Seems wrong to me but each to his own.
Title: Re: Lets get this straight
Post by: warhed on December 04, 2009, 05:25:42 PM
I cant speak for others, but "score" isn't a concern of mine.

If I am correct, the new system was implemented because players were frustrated with their kills being "stolen" by other players.

A valid reason to be frustrated, in my opinion.  If I worked for it, I want it.  Nothing wrong with that.

However, since the update, I find that the already strange kill-awarding behavior with respect to the 30mm was made stranger, still.  How do you get an assist when you plant three 30mm hits on a 51 at 150 yards, from the engine to the cockpit, and not get the kill after he is vaporized?

Seems wrong to me but each to his own.

Well, think of if this way...Once a vital part has been taken off, no more damage is counted.  So someone put rounds into your enemy before you came...
Now here you are, and you shoot his tail off with the first 30mm round, where ever you hit him, you are likely to get a vital piece with one 30mm.
He is not dead yet, just a vital piece has been taken off, no more damage from anyone shooting him will be counted.  So, you could land two, three, or even more 30mm hits on him, and none of them will count because your first 30mm stopped the damage counting.
Personally, I would prefer who ever took the vital piece off first to get the kill, regardless of who put more damage in to him.  I'm sure Lusche will come back and explain why that's a bad decision  :D