Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Glunz on March 22, 2001, 12:21:00 PM
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What WW2 plane would you fly in real combat, in one-life-only arena ?
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P-47N
I'd climb up there where nobody could catch me, and not engage anybody. Ta 152 might scare me but I'd just wait until he ran out of fuel. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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A5M Claude
-SW
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HE-219 A/7 or Me-410 with any of the R packs cept the BK-5 version.
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Sturm6 StaffelKapitän
JV44 Platzschutzstaffel
Airfield Defense Squadron
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easy... Me262
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure
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Including only mass-produced designs: P-51D
If ANY produced plane is allowed, then I'd go for either the F8F or the P-51H
The jets run outta gas too quickly.
J_A_B
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Very tough question m8.
I guess I would have to fly either a P-38 (late model) or maybe an Fw-190F. Always two of my favorite planes and both were somewhat rugged for their designs.
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ObstLt. Reschke
2/LJK Staffelkapitan
Kommandeur Jagdbomber
LuftJagerKorps (http://www.luftjagerkorps.com)
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Assuming engine reliabilty isnt modeled, it would have to be the Me262.
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A late P-38 or a P-47N. For late/low production a P-51H or F7F.
Or I might go for a B-29 :-) At 30,000 feet.
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M.C.202
Dino in Reno
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Any aircraft that could engage, and disenage the enemy at will. In Aces High, that would be at least the following:
P51D Mustang
Tempest
LA7
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Ripsnort =CO= VMF-323
"Anytime you can engage, and disengage the enemy at will,
you have already won 1/2 the battle before merging.."[/i]
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 03-22-2001).]
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OSTI (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Fw190D-9.
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P-47M
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Fiesler Storch and a sniper rifle.
I'd fly around real low where noone would EVER find me, land near an enemy base and pop some poor sucker in the head while he's starting his engine (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
'course we'd need some infantry modeling for that.
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P-47M
Hands down, not contest. Decent gas mileage. Extremely fast. Great diving ability. Superior high-alt performance. Can disengage from almost anything. Tough as nails.
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Sean "Lephturn" Conrad - Aces High Chief Trainer
A proud member of the mighty Flying Pigs
http://www.flyingpigs.com
Check out Lephturn's Aerodrome (http://users.andara.com/~sconrad/) for AH articles and training info!
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
P-47M
Hands down, no contest.
Yep, that would be the choice. Virtually untouchable from 20,000 ft on up. What's that? You won't be going up that high? No problem, the M Jug will be right down for a brief visit. One pass and zoom back up. Sooner or later, he's gonna get ya.
Above 30,000 ft there's two types of aircraft: P-47Ms and targets.
My regards,
Widewing
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Brewster Model 239 Buffalo. Or maybe a 109 G-2. Tough choice. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
Brewster into AH!
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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The Fairy Swordfish!!
But if I can't get one of those I would try the F4U-4.
Faster than those that can out turn it, and turns better than those that are faster. Great range, lotsa ordinance and takes a beating.
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P47M you say?? Its max speed is 470 mph at 30k, it was primarily designed to counter German V-1s, thus performance over 30k wasn't very much required, however, the Ta 152 would still be superior above 35k. Only 130 P47Ms were made.
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Nath_____
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
(http://pobox2.zyan.com/~nath/haha.jpg)
"He just slapped me around like a yard dawg. First time Ive ever been shut out in a ladder, here or WB's. Tha Bastige!" -hblair
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I think I would go with the Fw 190D-9. I like what it has to offer. Turns good enough for me, climbs well enough for me, and hauls enough bellybutton for me. Suffice it to say, I like this plane. Plus, it actually looks vicious, gotta love that!
-math
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Me-262
Its one life. Hell, i wanna be able to RUUUUN like hell and have 4 cannons too.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Pity the P-47M never flew a single mission in it's "design role"...
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Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
P47M you say?? Its max speed is 470 mph at 30k, it was primarily designed to counter German V-1s, thus performance over 30k wasn't very much required, however, the Ta 152 would still be superior above 35k. Only 130 P47Ms were made.
First, we need to understand that the P-47M was a development of a 1943 aircraft at Republic that was a sister to the XP-47J. This aircraft explored using the same engine installed on the XP-47J in a standard P-47C airframe. Republic logged over 2,000 hours on this airframe, which also pioneered the wing inserts later incorporated on the P-47N. When the Brits began to howl about the V-1s, the AAF asked the major fighter manufacturers if they could offer a solution by producing an aircraft that had the speed to quickly overhaul a V-1. Republic rolled out their high-speed P-47C, dusted it off and said, "what kept ya?" Shortly thereafter, three P-47D aircraft were pulled from the production line and fitted with the R-2800 C series engine and the YP-47M was born. When these aircraft finally began to arrive in the ETO, most of the V-1 launch facilities had already been over-run. The net result was that the aircraft never chased "Doddlebugs". It did, however, set the standard for speed in the theater.
Finally, let's discuss its real maximum speed. Straight from the factory floor, the M could pull 475 mph at 32,000 feet. Once it was in the hands of the 56th FG mechanics, the waste gates received the same treatment as those on the D models. Speeds climbed as high as 490 mph using water injection. This is fairly well documented by a great many of the group's pilots.
With respect to the Ta 152: I give the M the edge for several reasons. First and foremost is that even though the Ta 152 could reach altitudes up to 48K, so what? What can it do up there? If the 152 is going to have a use, it must come down and engage the bombers and the fighter escort. Remember, the air war is fought where the bombers fly. Down at 30K, the M is faster, rolls quicker, climbs better and dives faster. At 30k, the M is still climbing at 2,260 per minute, which is marginally better than the 152. In fact, the M climbs better than the Ta 152 at all altitudes below 39,000 ft.
Where performance counts, and that is where the bombers fly, the P-47M out-performs the Ta 152 in virtually every category. Not by much, I'll grant you, but by enough to make it no more of a factor than the Fw 190D-9 was to the P-51D. Add to this the Thunderbolt's tank like durability, and the choice become clear to me.
My regards,
Widewing
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I thought we were talking about AH...
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P51-H when we get it.
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Me 262 would be my choice.
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First choice Ta 152H-1, second choice Fw 190D-9.
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jochen Gefechtsverband Kowalewski
Units: I. and II./KG 51, II. and III./KG 76, NSGr 1, NSGr 2, NSGr 20.
Planes: Do 17Z, Ju 87D, Ju 88A, He 111H, Ar 234A, Me 410A, Me 262A, Fw 190A, Fw 190F, Fw 190G.
Sieg oder bolsevismus!
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P-38 if in the Pacific
P-51 if in Europe
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I've always thought the P-47M was fast at high alt, but not very quick down low, where the V-1s flew. Does anyone have the figures for it's speed at various altitudes, and especially around 5,000ft?
Great plane, but I want to know if it would have been any good at chasing V-1s
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D.520
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Originally posted by Nath-BDP:
I thought we were talking about AH...
We got a P-47M in AH now? Woohoo!! Im loggin in to fly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(http://home.nc.rr.com/ammo/public.html/unw_sig.jpg) (http://www.jump.net/~cs3)
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I wonder why stupid german mechanics never made field modifications on their planes and stupid german pilots still thought they had good mechanics.
Oh, well americans are usually better in everything, I gotta accept that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
Maik
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P-47M for all the reasons others have stated above. To paraphrase Zemke (paraphrase poorly I might add), if you want to look good in a picture you send home to your girlfriend, hop in a P-51. If you want to get the job done in combat and come home alive fly a P-47.
--
Sancho
63rd FS, 56th FG
"Zemke's Wolfpack"
(http://www.jump.net/~cs3/sigs/mahurin_sig.jpg)
Aerial combat isn't half of what it is shown to be in the movies... the combat usually takes place at a hell of a speed - the enemy aeroplane is only seen for a few seconds.--Bud Mahurin
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Originally posted by maik:
I wonder why stupid german mechanics never made field modifications on their planes and stupid german pilots still thought they had good mechanics.
Oh, well americans are usually better in everything, I gotta accept that (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif).
Maik
I'm sure some German mechanics found ways to improve performance in the field. No one has implied otherwise. In the case of the P-47, these mods were introduced by factory representatives from Republic and Pratt& Whitney.
One other factor that goes overlooked is that America was nation of mechanics and tinkerers. I don't recall the specific numbers, but I believe that there were more automobiles in the United States in 1939 than in all of Europe combined. Likewise, the same goes for privately owned aircraft and power boats. Americans did most of their own vehicle maintenence. They still do. Indeed, there were tens of thousands of young American men who had extensive skills at hotrodding large displacement V8 engines. When those men entered military service, what do you think they did with those skills?
My regards,
Widewing
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Viva A...., nahh.
no comment!
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While they were tinkering, the real engineers made the 262.
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1 life to live eh? I'd still stick with either a 190A5 or 109F. Call me old fashioned :P
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Wingnut
Luftjagerkorps
(http://pages.prodigy.net/armis1/.wi_kag_banner3.gif)
The quality of the box matters little. Success depends upon the man who sits in it - Baron Manfred von Richthofen
[This message has been edited by Wingnut_0 (edited 03-24-2001).]
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Amateurs!
My ride would be the Lockheed P-80. Now that’s a real aircraft.
ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!
Hey, and it’s a WWII aircraft to (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Oh well, in reality I would have flown...
P-47: ETO
P-38: PTO
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I'd probably go for the Arado with the ventral and rear guns.
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qts
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109f
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Pray not for an end to the slaughter...but for VICTORY!!!
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While they were tinkering, the real engineers made the 262.
Yeah, Hitler's work on the 262 was superb! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Oh! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) New signiature line.
-Westy
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"Above 30,000 ft there's two types of aircraft: P-47Ms and targets."
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 03-25-2001).]
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Spitfire IXc
or
P-40E/N/M
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Skyrats/files/spit_ixc.gif)
-Tronski-
[This message has been edited by -tronski- (edited 03-25-2001).]
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P-40, in AVG colors (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Only ONE life, might as well have style.
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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PTO: P-38
ETO: P-47 or Dora
FYI-According to the latest four part series on the Me-262 by J.Richard Smith and Eddie J. Creek the main reason the Me-262 was never produced in larger numbers earlier, wasn't because of Hitler. It was because Willy Messerschmitt didn't want to close the 109 production line down. He thought the 109 would be sufficient to win the war. After all, it would have cost him money and time to switch production over to the 262. Which he eventually did, however, it was too late by then.
I won't argue U.S. Engineers vs German Engineers. Being an Engineer myself, both sides had very talented engineers. To even begin to understand the argument, you would have to look at politics, requirements, etc. I won't argue that in terms of pure R&D the Germans seemed to be fearless (Of course their backs were against the wall, which can be a hell of a motivator).
Another interesting comment about this thread. I spoke with a WW2 Fighter pilot at the Dayton airshow last year. He was with the Confederate air force and was collecting the money for the B-29 cockpit tour. I asked him what he flew in WW2. He joined the RAF in 1940 where he flew:
Hurricane Mk. Ia's and IIa's
Spitfire Mk. I's, III's, V's, IX's
In 43 he was transferred to the USAAF (56th FG)
He flew P-47D's (Obviously)
He also flew P-51D's for awhile and the P-47N. He said he didn't like the P-47N. He told me it was a dog (I was surprised at hearing that). So I asked him, which was his favorite of all of them to fly. He said the Spitfire Mk. V. Just thought you would like to hear that. I know I wrote his name down somewhere, I will try to find it. I keep thinking his first name was Jack, but I will have to look.
Edit:
I think he also said that he flew the P-47N in the PTO (He was transferred there after VE). Also, he said the one thing you had to be careful of when flying the P-47 was how it would 'Mush out' at the bottom of a dive. He said you usually had to pull it out about 50 ft higher then where you wanted to be because of that. He said his wingman went down because he didn't adjust for that on a straffing run. The wingman flew into a static He-177...and lived! (his plane went down, but he survived).
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Sundog
VMF-111 Devildogs (http://www.devildogs.com)
MAG-33 (http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/M3.html)
'Criticism is always easier than craftmanship.'
[This message has been edited by Sundog (edited 03-25-2001).]
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109G
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Ki-61.
Ki-100.
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B-24, B-17, or Privateer doing anti-shipping work over the Atlantic.
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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IF i flew fighter, 262, if bomber, FW-200 c-8, 2 good lookin planes (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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(http://www.user.shentel.net/vonz/jato.JPG)