Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Servo on March 23, 2001, 02:56:00 PM
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Hello everyone!
In this lastest version of Aces High, we've gotten a few more aircraft which have never been modeled before. I really enjoy the fact that there are C.202s and 205s (even if they look hideously ugly) So I'd like to expand on that.. but also throw a few more varient ideas in the mix. Let me know what you think. I only know the basics on their performance, so if you have additional information, please feel free to fill it in. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
First of all, my girlfriend is an Aussie, so she demands I throw an Aussie plane into the mix. It would probably be fodder in the MA (slower than a Zeke), but it's interesting historically, and actually did quite well!
(http://web.tampabay.rr.com/llamacomps/AcesHigh/boom.gif)
Commonwealth CA-12 Boomerang
"The first enemy contact was made on May 16 1943, when Boomerangs from No 84 Sqn intercepted and drove off three Betty bombers. For many months, the Boomerangs successfully carried out many similar sorties until, eventually, they were replaced by Kittyhawks and Spitfires. Relegated to the army co-operation role with Nos 4 and 5 Sqn the Boomerangs soon established a high reputation for effective strikes throughout New Guinea, the Solomon Islands, and Borneo; particularly so in co-ordinated operations with RNZAF Corsairs."
- Single-seat interceptor and ground attack fighter. Metal and wood construction.
- Max speed, 305 mph at 15,000 ft. Initial rate of climb, 2,940 ft/min. Service ceiling 29,000 ft.
- Two 20 mm Hispano or CAC manufactured cannons. Four 0.303 Browning machine-guns. Bombs could be substituted when the large drop tank was not carried.
I would love to have a rolling plane set, just so I could use this plane in a somewhat equal performance arena. Wonder what happened when a Hispano hit an early Zeke (the kind without self-sealing fuel tanks). It would also be a joy to have in a Pacific scenario.
(http://web.tampabay.rr.com/llamacomps/AcesHigh/re2005f.gif)
Reggiane Re 2005 Sagittario
The strength of 362a Squadriglia was increased with the addition of ten pre-production Sagittarios in July 1943. The squadron had developed a rather daring method of attacking Allied B-17s which involved diving head-on with all guns blazing, then flipping the aircraft over on its back and diving away at the last minute."
- Max speed, 421 mph at 22,800 ft. Service ceiling 39,400 ft.
- Two 12.7 mm Breda-SAFAT machine guns, 3 20 mm Mauser MG 151 cannons, up to 2,200 lb / 1,000 kg bomb or fuel tank under fuselage, Two wing hardpoints for 353 lb / 160 kg of bombs or fuel tanks.
We have the C.202 and C.205, so why not the Re 2005? It's my understanding that it performs better than the C.205 and is a fair bit faster. It'd be a nice to have an Italian late war plane that can compete better in the MA. Plus, you can't deny that the paint is -much- better than the C. series.
...and everyone knows that's the most important point.
(http://web.tampabay.rr.com/llamacomps/AcesHigh/g55-f.gif)
Fiat G.55 Centauro
- Max speed, 385 mph at 24,300 ft. Service ceiling 41,700 ft.
- Two 12.7mm MGs. Three 20mm Mauser cannons.
More Italy goodness. While it packs a little more punch than the C.205, it's not anything to write home about speed wise. I have no idea how well this plane handled... anyone?Again, notice the superior paint job.
(http://web.tampabay.rr.com/llamacomps/AcesHigh/mig-3.jpg)
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-3
- Max speed, 407 mph at 22,960 ft. Service ceiling 39,370 ft.
- Two 7.62mm ShKAS. One 12.7mm UBS.
This would give the VVS in Aces High a good high altitude fighter. The Yak, and especially the La5fn/La7 suffer at higher altitudes. Still the same pop-guns as the Yak-9U though, anyone know of a functional variant with more punch?
I was going to throw the P-47C in here too, but after researching it some more. It's nearly identical to the P-47D-25 we have now. So, anyone have any extra input?
Servo
[This message has been edited by Servo (edited 03-23-2001).]
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Very nice (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Would be great to got them here
What about the Il-2, the Swordfish and the Polikarpov I-15? Yes the last 2 are Biplanes, but i think it would be fun to fly them.
Sailor
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Servo, the G.55 had about 5sq meters of wing area more than the C.205, the same engine and some 200-250Kg more of weight. The plane was very good above 20K, where the C.205 sucked (in RL) and actually sucks in AH. Very good maneuverability, better turner than the C.205 at medium-high alt. Very stable. Very good interceptor with those 3 cannons with plenty of ammo. Luftwaffe tested the fiter and found it much better than the Bf109G-4.
The Re2005 is a beautiful mount indeed, but the figures you have about max speed are not reliable.
I really hope to see the G.55 or the Re.2005, sooner or later ... well, better sooner (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
<S>!
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GAT
4° Stormo Caccia - Knight Axis Gruppe (http://www.4stormo.it)
"The Eyeties are comparatively easy to shoot down. Oh, they're brave enough. In fact, I think the Eyeties have more courage than the Germans, but their tactics aren't so good. They are very good gliders, but they try to do clever acrobatics and looping. But they will stick it even if things are going against them, whereas the Jerries will run." (G.Beurling)
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 03-23-2001).]
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Indeed, you're correct gat. I have only one book with reference to the Sagittario, and it appears to be wrong. After researching the plane a bit more, it seems the maximum speed was about 400mph at 22,000 instead of 421.
Even so, it looks to be a lethal, fast, and capable aircraft that would be competitive in our MA today.
However, after poking around the net a bit more, I found a website that states the max speed of the Re 2005 is in fact 421.
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Reggiane.html (http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Reggiane.html)
I too hope the the Italian plane set is fleshed sooner than later. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Servo
[This message has been edited by Servo (edited 03-23-2001).]
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PZL P.11c please!
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"PZL P.11c please!"
Perked of course! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hmmm, this G.55 sounds like an interesting plane for AH. Pretty good wingloading, 3 cannon - would probably fair better in AH than the MC.205 does. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
For an Australian plane I'd prefer a more competitive license-built job; Beaufighter Mk.21 or Mosquito FB.40. One of those, or a Spitfire VIII. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I know of some hardcore P-47D5 razorback jug fans that are chomping at the bit for such a plane in AH (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
p-47d5 razorback mod please. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
"don't check your six, there could be someone back there shooting at you!"
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FYI, the G.55's cannons (could mount the 15mm or the 20mm just changing the barrel) had 200 rounds for each wing gun, 250 rounds for the nose cannon and 300 rounds for each 12,7mm heavy MG.
The best figure about the max speed at altitude for the Re.2005 is about 630Km/h at about 23,000ft but it was a prototype with 4x12,7mm in the nose and one nose cannon (and about same weight of the production fiter). Talk about an italian P-38 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Judging from the weight, the HP available and the wing area, it should not be much higher than the G.55 max speed at alt, slightly less than 390mph at 23K, that is.
Why the C.205 was faster? Well, the C.205 manual talks about a "supergiri" rpm setting, perhaps they could push the license built DB605 to 2,800rpm at (about) 1,4 ATA boost, while other Series 5 fiters could not exceed 2,600rpm at 1,3 ATA boost. Probably the smaller wing area helped with max speed at medium-low altitude. Sort of clipped wings.
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 03-24-2001).]
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S!
P-47C had very limited use in combat. Only during a few months in spring '43. Replaced by the 47D. As I have mentioned before, I think we need the P-47 D21. Which has less weight than the D-25, but water injection, and the paddle blade prop for better performance than the earlier D models. (of course all the D models were upgraded by January '44) Of course all the Razorbacks did not have as good visibility out the rear.
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S!
P-47C had very limited use in combat. Only during a few months in spring '43. Replaced by the 47D. As I have mentioned before, I think we need the P-47 D21. Which has less weight than the D-25, but water injection, and the paddle blade prop for better performance than the earlier D models. (of course all the D models were upgraded by January '44) Of course all the Razorbacks did not have as good visibility out the rear.
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I think an earlier non-paddle prop P-47D(-15?) would be more representative of the majority of razorback jugs...
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Originally posted by juzz:
I think an earlier non-paddle prop P-47D(-15?) would be more representative of the majority of razorback jugs...
Juzz, that is incorrect:
P-47D-15-RA - 157 produced
P-47D-15-RE - 496 produced in 2 production runs of 250 & 246
P-47D-22-RE - 850 produced
P-47D-23-RA - 889 produced
(all numbers from p.377 of the Bodie P-47 book)
The D-22 and D-23 were the last variants produced in razorback configuration and were virtually identical other than the prop used. The D-22 used the Hamilton Standard paddleblade prop and the D-23 used "an even more advanced" Curtiss Electric paddle blade prop.
The D-23 was made in greater numbers than any other razorback jug: 889 in a single production run. The D-22 was close behind with 850. The next largest production run of razorback jugs was the D-2-RE with 445 produced. Buzzbait, as far as the D-21-RE goes, it was produced in 2 small production runs of 144 and 72, and did not incorporate a paddleblade prop.
Of course all this talk of which jug was "more representative" is irrelevant as far as Aces High is concerned, IMO. For the MA we need a D-22 or D-23 because they will be the most competitive.
Once the 3d model for the razorback is done, then it will be relatively easy for HTC to later on add earlier razorback variants for scenario use. But the D-22/23 should be first. My $0.02.
And as long as we're talking jugs, where's my P-47M-1??? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
--
(http://www.jump.net/~cs3/sigs/uns_sig.jpg)
Hell hath no fury like 8 50 cals and 18 fire breathing cylinders.
[This message has been edited by Sancho (edited 03-24-2001).]
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An original MiG-3 carried 3 UB macineguns and 2 ShKAS. Wing-mounted UBs were removed after the War began because industry couldn't produce then in nessesary quantities. Pokryshkin wrote he was extremely disappointed when his firepower was reduced.
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With respect,
Pavel Pavlov,
Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS
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Originally posted by Servo:
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-3
Hello there! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
- Max speed, 407 mph at 22,960 ft. Service ceiling 39,370 ft.
- Two 7.62mm ShKAS. One 12.7mm UBS.
This would give the VVS in Aces High a good high altitude fighter. The Yak, and especially the La5fn/La7 suffer at higher altitudes. Still the same pop-guns as the Yak-9U though, anyone know of a functional variant with more punch?
[/B]
Well actually the original Mig3 had 3xUB 12.7mm mashine guns plus 2xShKAS 7.62mm mashine guns, but due to the heavy losses in the first days of war and the increasing number of new planes being produced the two wing UBs were taken off from new built Migs to supply other planes. But these UBs could have been easily added to Mig3 and it was done when necessary.
Let's kick the tires and light the fires!
Storm
PS: saw Boroda's post too late (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
[This message has been edited by StormFB (edited 03-24-2001).]
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P-38D and P-38J BABY! Need a firepower version and a speed version (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
P-61
A26
Hurricane
Me110
Me163
Me262 (perk)
Gloster Meteor (perk)
Early Zeke's and some IJA aircraft would do nicely too.
He-111
Betty
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(http://myweb.worldnet.net/~emmpetit/hurrican.jpg)
And give the Japanese a bomber to start with, Peggy, Betty or Emily etc., and a KI-43 or 61. Besides that a bomber for VVS and of course the IL-2.
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Thud1/Bies
Bring the Hurricane (MKIIC) to AH! (together with the Invader!)
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If the me262 is introduced we at least will really see what these planes were like.we'd get an idea of the shock that performance must have caused.
So i would hope that we dont get the gloster meteor as if we get an allied plane which again closes the technology gap the whole impact of the arrival of the me262 would be spoiled.
Id still like to see the gladiator one day but lets see planes that saw action first?
please dont give me the old...........
'gloster blah blah shot 12 rounds at blah blah on october 5th 1945 blah blah so it did see action blah blah'.. .stuff OK? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Hazed
3./JG2 (http://members.home.net/winyah999/3jg2.htm)
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The Meteor wasn't much faster than the fastest late war piston engine fighters. It was far more maneuverable than the 262 but nowhere near as fast. (AFAIK)
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Meteor MkIII could do about 480mph. The MkIV, which entered service just before Japan surrendered, could do about 600mph. The Meteor also had a range of more than 1000 miles on internal tanks, significantly more than the 262.
I agree with hazed that the Me262 should be introduced several AH versions earlier than the Meteor. I do think that the Meteor MkIII should eventually be added as a perk though. I don't think that the Meteor MkIV should ever be added to AH.
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We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!
Sisu
-Karnak
[This message has been edited by Karnak (edited 03-28-2001).]
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I think the Spitfire XIV shuld be added so the Luftwaffles can get an idea of the shock it's arrival must have caused to a Luftwaffe flying only 190A7s and 109G6s (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
We of course shoudn't ever get the 190D9 and 109G10 because it again coses the technology gap