Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: TracerX on December 12, 2009, 12:58:32 AM
-
Umm... 49 kills!!?
Definately exceeded your tag limits tonight. We will be checking ID's next Friday to nab the guilty parties.
Somehow even Butcher Bird doesn't seem to fit anymore. I will be calling it Manslaughter Bird from now on.
HOLY COW :O
-
On behalf of JG11 I thank you sir!
was a great nite,till we ran into those 47 near the end...<S>
:salute
-
49? as in forty-nine? That has to be some sort of record. :neener: :cheers:
-
A8s ripped apart the mossies. I dont think they seen us at first. After once pass half of them were dead
-
No other squad shows the superiority of German Iron better than the folks on JG11. A big salute to those fellas! :salute
-
49 nine kills. Like as in four-nine?
Wow - just wow. WTG guys. :salute
Glad we arrived late.
-
With short icon range on the deck I'm not sure they saw us coming and after in the short furball those icons were playing tricks on everyone. I enjoyed the icons daddog! :salute
-
wow, did they put up a fight at all for you guys?
-
yah it might have had something to do with the fact that we couldn't see anyone due to the icon ranges. I saw a guy diving on me, thought I had time and all of a sudden hes 800 out. He shot out my aileron, and then I got jumped by a few more from nowhere. Our escorts were NOE with us, so they got slaughtered too. We pretty much had no chance. Bombers definitely got the short end of the stick tonight. Oh well, if not fun, it certainly was exciting for a few minutes lol. Good total tonight for JG11..wtg.<S>
-
yah it might have had something to do with the fact that we couldn't see anyone due to the icon ranges. I saw a guy diving on me, thought I had time and all of a sudden hes 800 out. He shot out my aileron, and then I got jumped by a few more from nowhere. Our escorts were NOE with us, so they got slaughtered too. We pretty much had no chance. Bombers definitely got the short end of the stick tonight. Oh well, if not fun, it certainly was exciting for a few minutes lol. Good total tonight for JG11..wtg.<S>
If you did not see them, how did they see you guys?
-
because we were a huge group of bombers on the deck. Pretty easy to spot, and like I said, I did see the first one, but I thought I had a lot more time than I did to evade because I didn't know the icon ranges were at 800. So it was a big surprise when all of a sudden hes 800 and closing. I didn't have any time to react. And then the other guys, I knew were there but they kept coming in and out of con range and it is very hard to track multiples when that's happening. It is much easier for the aggressor to pick his target and stick with it. They got the jump on us. The situation probably wouldn't have been much different even if the icon ranges were set right, but at least we would have some sort of chance to fight.
-
... I dont think they seen us at first...
QFT
Very hard to adjust your 8 year flying style when, suddenly, your opponent appears out of nowhere at firing range.
I understand the icon settings were a mistake... but, still.. that fluffluff'n sucked.
First time that I can remember, that I logged off the game immediately after getting slain and forced myself to keep from hitting the BBS before getting a good night's sleep.
Still have a bad taste from it.
-
W T G JG11 :salute
-
From the logs, JG11 also shot down a number of Spit XVIs, and that's nothing to explain away. Nice frame.
-
The Mossies were in the best looking, tight formation I have seen in a long time. :cheers: Almost hated to pounce on them. :salute
-
Don't use icons as an excuse to down play some brilliant flying and fighting.
The icons were the same for everyone friend and foe..
Well Done JG-11.
<S>
-
Nice job JG-11.
There was a problem with the icon ranges? How was it messed up? We could see friendlies out to 6k and I don't remember how far out the enemy icons were visible...LOL...just never paid attention.
-
We had the good luck to be in the right place at the right time. But then, Stampf does seem do that pretty often. :)
As always, Frodo spotted the quarry first, down at treetop height. Gotta love that FrodoVision (tm). We all came diving down on them at the speed of heat, and hit their formation when they were one or two minutes from hitting their target . The short icons were as much of a surprise to us as to anyone else, and sure made for some white-knuckle moments in the ensuing dogfight on the deck with that swirling bunch of Spitfires.
We were only just barely able to scramble back up to altitude in time to hit that wave of B-26s, which came in shortly after the furball on the deck. (By that time, the enemy icons were back at the usual 3k.)
Hey, I'd rather be lucky than good, any day! ;)
-
What it seemed like to me was, we flashed a town(cant remember what base) and since we were so deep so early it must have been evident we were low. A couple guys dropped in on us from high and we turned around (spits) to cover the mossies. Of course by the time we got back on course, the mossies were way out in front. We couldnt get back to them.
I had icons on at 8oo,then off, and the details being low the plane looked like a grey toaster flying around,back on at 8oo. Real hard to see em. I think at that point there was a lot of "Oh F%^& this" going on and there wasnt alot of heart in it. I know mine sure wasnt.
But definately a big <S> to JG11 WTG! Thats some killin!
-
I do truly miss Frodo Vision! :)
-
I do truly miss Frodo Vision! :)
I don't know how he does it, but he always spots the enemy first.
Watching my film I was doing 580 on my first pass. Suprised I hit anything
-
Short Icon range or no Icons lends a real challenge to the fight. The first to spot the enemy is usually the first to strike. Another problem it can bring though is having to identify the aircraft as enemy or friendly. Shoot to soon you might be taking out a friend.
Horrido and Salute to JG11.
-
Received my gun cam footage today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ0cH9QAI3o
-
Nice gun cam footage...
Salute to the JG11...
We were the spits along with the Mosquito's along with Filth...
It was a tough hop to swallow.... Thats about all I have to say about last night....Tuk151
-
In JG11 we have been blessed with a group of very determined and talented guys, who all know the importance of teamwork. Best squadron I've ever been a part of, actually the best group of gamers I've had the privilige to be a part of. Stampf is the man who brought us all together, he is a great squad CO in many ways. Flying german iron only is not for everyone, but for those of us who love it it's a very rewarding experience to fly JG11.
Big :salute to friends and foes alike, the game would not be the same without you guys.
-
Received my gun cam footage today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ0cH9QAI3o
Damn mia389 that gun cam footage is the nicest I have ever seen done from an AH film. <S>
-
Received my gun cam footage today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ0cH9QAI3o
That a great gun came you got there. Really got it to look like the real thing. I Bet you can fool a lot of ppl with it.
-
Thanks guys, It really isnt that hard to do with windows movie maker. I just used gray scale and old effects.
Here is another one I did http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuesNux3Uug
-
What it seemed like to me was, we flashed a town(cant remember what base) and since we were so deep so early it must have been evident we were low. A couple guys dropped in on us from high and we turned around (spits) to cover the mossies. Of course by the time we got back on course, the mossies were way out in front. We couldnt get back to them.
I had icons on at 8oo,then off, and the details being low the plane looked like a grey toaster flying around,back on at 8oo. Real hard to see em. I think at that point there was a lot of "Oh F%^& this" going on and there wasnt alot of heart in it. I know mine sure wasnt.
But definately a big <S> to JG11 WTG! Thats some killin!
FiLtH you guys almost made it under us, the squad was still climbing and we had 2 scouts out Frodo and Horble flanking the squad and a touch lower. If Frodo didn't spot you on the deck you would have an un-opposed run on the flak factory. The icon range almost helped, I understand the frustration you guys had last night not knowing that it was mistakenly set to that range. But in future FSO's I can see some potential with that short Icon range under a certain altitude, say 1k and under.
A few of us got shot down by the spits in almost the same fashion, 10thd called on Vox i had 2 spits closing on my six. I looked back I could see a 2 planes that didn't look like a threat, 1 second later I look back and 2 spits at -800 coming in fast, down I went.
I just hope this doesn't sour your view on short Icon ranges in the future.
-
That a great gun came you got there. Really got it to look like the real thing. I Bet you can fool a lot of ppl with it.
The palm trees kind of tipped me off that it was from AH and not actual footage.
-
Ya Hopper it could have gone that way if we were'nt seen. Im sorry on the short icons though, I have no interest having them in the future.
-
wow you guys (http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k213/nikomon/KickDonkey.jpg)
WTG :salute
-
Ya Hopper it could have gone that way if we were'nt seen. I'm sorry on the short icons though, I have no interest having them in the future.
I loved the short icons. On my system I can still see planes a ways out without icons. I know a few on JG11 hated the icons because their systems or monitors wouldn't show the enemy until very close. Some have a hard time seeing the enemy with the icons on. It was mass confusion and I loved it. Judging E was almost impossible. Fog of war was very present. I just wish everyone would of seen it from my end.
Maybe in the future they will bring the icon range down just a bit from 3.0. 800 was a bit to low.
-
Thanks alot everyone.
You've got to have good men, good luck, and good beer. :aok
Fly FSO!
-
The palm trees kind of tipped me off that it was from AH and not actual footage.
That and the right angle river edge.
-
That and the right angle river edge.
I hate the rivers. We call them legos :D
-
I hate the rivers. We call them legos :D
:rofl
-
Excellent frame Sonderstaffel. :salute
-
If it is not a record it should be.
Amazing!
WTG Stampf and JG 11! :aok :cheers: :salute
-
spinner, that guncam is great! I think I will play around with it too :)
-
Anyone who Flies AH KNOWS if enemy is on your 6 at less than 2k .... you are dead! 800 was a fiasco for us and easy pickings for them! Nightmares are not lax pilots if given a chance! JG11 had a fish barrel opportunity and took rightful advantage of it! :furious
-
I wouldn't say 2k as a definite Stega, 1k maybe but at 2k you still have a chance to maneuver your way out of it. You can still maneuver your way out of it if he's within 1k and certainly if you're in a spit. It varies a lot with pilot skill, E status and plane combination, so I take your 2k statement as a compliment to JG11. ;)
:salute
-
Anyone who Flies AH KNOWS if enemy is on your 6 at less than 2k .... you are dead!
Sorry man, I totally disagree...I find myself in that situation a lot...even at 800 if the other guy has a lot of smash I can jig out of his way, unless it's a Zeke...and I'm nowhere near an uber toon pile-it.
-
How about d500 or d600. Because that's when the Nightmares would've got icon in reality.
AH Lag favours the chaser. Because you see his old position, you see an aircraft rendered slightly behind where he is. Because he sees your old position, he sees an aircraft rendered slightly behind where you presently are. So the mossie might've seen an icon at d800, but by then the LW pilot was seeing d600.
ie, the nightmares only got icon when the LW already had a firing solution, so for all intents and purposes the icons were effectively off.
-
Lag does not make 200 yards difference, how would we ever be able to fly in formation then?
-
Anyone who Flies AH KNOWS if enemy is on your 6 at less than 2k .... you are dead! 800 was a fiasco for us and easy pickings for them! Nightmares are not lax pilots if given a chance! JG11 had a fish barrel opportunity and took rightful advantage of it! :furious
Not true bud sry, I normally like to start a slow turn when they are maybe 1.5k out then at the 800-600 range I make my move which is a vertical move where I point my wing at the guy and scrub his shot works almost every time except when im running low on E.
WTG JG11 showing people why German Iron is "Just for men" :D :salute
-
The "control zone" starts at about 800 yards and goes inward to ~400 yards. So while it's false that you are dead if the bandit is 2k behind you, are are more or less screwed if the icon range is 800 yards and you don't see the bandit until the icon appears.
-
Agreed with junky and gavagai
-
Lag does not make 200 yards difference, how would we ever be able to fly in formation then?
If you have 2 people running between 100-200ms (not uncommon) plus server and processing overheads then there is a potential for easily between half a second and a second lag. At 300mph thats around 150 yards per second at each end difference.
Flying in formation is only your point of view. If you grabbed the films from other people things would look slightly different.
-
If you have 2 people running between 100-200ms (not uncommon) plus server and processing overheads then there is a potential for easily between half a second and a second lag. At 300mph thats around 150 yards per second at each end difference.
Flying in formation is only your point of view. If you grabbed the films from other people things would look slightly different.
I get little jumps so normally I have to lead the flight so I dont jump ahead :D
-
I agree it looks slightly differently, but never seen 150 yards difference. When someone spike he'll jump some distance back and forth but from what I've seen when looking at film recorded from two diff locations (USA/EU) the difference can be 50 maybe 100 yards. It makes a difference, but not a huge one.
-
33Vortex,
You're overlooking the difference in speed.
When planes are trying to fly in close formation, the various pilots are trying to fly at approximately the same speed, so the lag jumps are fairly small.
However, when a bunch of Fighters dive down from a 15k-20k altitude in an intercept on a bunch of NOE bombers, the speed differential is going to be somewhat more extreme.
250-300 mph low-level bombers
400-500 mph diving fighters
150-200 mph speed differential = Much Larger lag jumps.
In my own case I was one of the NOE Mossies who got jumped.
I heard some warnings from farther back in the bomber stream and my head immediately went on a swivel trying to spot the threat, but I never even saw the guy that shot me down.
I quite literaly saw his tracers appearing behind me "out of thin air", then poof! I was history.
As my plane came apart, I caught my first sight of my killer as he zoomed past me like I was standing still.
No foul on JG11 as they were only performing their mission, and simply taking advantage of circumstances and the settings that probably should never have been provided by the CMs.
My $0.02
CptA
-
...simply taking advantage of circumstances and the settings that probably should never have been provided by the CMs.
You may not have read in another thread that the icon settings were a mistake on my part. No other CM's fault but mine. Not sure what you meant by the last part. Can you explain?
-
How can lag be related to the difference in speed between two airplanes??? Care to elaborate on that too?
I can buy the relative relationship of higher speed => bigger lag jumps but can't see how it has anything to do with the speed difference between two airplanes. Anyone with knowledge of AH coding or netcommunication care to comment?
-
I am not a HTC programmer and was not involved in the incident. However, from a programming point of view this is a possible scenario (depending on how things were coded).
Basically the code constantly queries or checks the position of your plane. This query is set to happen every X amount of time. Connectivity issues of course can affect this and this is why we have lag. Your computer pings the server asking for this information and then the server sends your computer the information. The time between request and response creates lag.
Now you also have another factor in play, as I said, and that is how often is the request made?
This is where speed of the planes come into play. If the server makes a request while you are moving at X mph you move a certain distance from that point when the next request is made. If the planes around you are all moving the same speed then your relative distance between yourself and the other plane can roughly remain the same. However if their a closure rate or expansion rate then things can get iffy.
If the server makes a request every X amount of time and in that time distance between you and another plane increases or decreases by Y amount then you can also have lag when the difference starts to become extreme. Basically it all depends on how often and how fast the request and response happens and how different the shift in positions are.
Lets say for sake of argument that the request is made every second. One plane is moving at 300mph and the other is moving at 250mph, a 50 mph difference. This basically mean that the 300 mph plane moves about 73ft per second faster than the other plane or 24 yards a second. In this scenario basically you have 33 seconds from a plane being at 800 yards behind you to being at 0 yards.
So basically in that scenario a plane can shift position 24 yards if the request and response happens in 1 second. So again it depends on how fast the request and response is and the distance shift between the two planes.
Now I am not saying that HTC code does its request every second (I hope it is doing it much more often) and I am not sure how they handle this but basically it does boil down to your machine asking the server the location of the other planes every x amount of time. The slower the request and response time and the more extreme the positional shifts can cause jumps.
-
The point is that if you do not react at 2k or closer you've lost most of the opportunity to survive a 6 attack. If you could not see beyond 800 yards, you become a fish in a barrel.......easy kill. :noid
-
The point is that if you do not react at 2k or closer you've lost most of the opportunity to survive a 6 attack. If you could not see beyond 800 yards, you become a fish in a barrel.......easy kill. :noid
The faster the con chasing me, the slower I am to react. I prefer to let them get to almost d800 so they are committed, and either flat-out overshoot and miss, or better yet, wind up in front of my guns :D
-
Overshooting is a beginners mistake, it is sometimes difficult to tell if it's a experienced stick or a novice closing in on you but the two final answers to that question is 1) does he overshoot? and 2) does he hit you when firing?
Thx for the clarification ghostdancer but that factor only comes into real play if there is bad connectivity on either end no? If the queries and data stream is uninterrrupted both planes will move smoothly (naturally also depending on how the pilot fly his crate). So only when connectivity is less than satisfactory will this be a factor in the outcome of the fight.
From my point of view (I did not participate in this particular fight btw) the real issue here is that the tags, or absence of them rather, deny you the ability to detect a incoming threat. In other words, your SA suffer tremendously and especially if you're not aware that the tag range is 800. Afaik it should have been at least 3k right? So the real issue here imo is that the 800 yard tag range effectively denied you of any useful level of SA until it was too late. It was a CM mistake and has been confirmed and apologized as such, so live with it, after all it's just a game.
The tags are ultimately there to level the field in situational awareness. Not everyone have a high-res monitor and even at very high resolution the image produced by the computer is far less than what the human eye can percieve and especially the sense of three dimensional, or spatial, room is missing. So the tags are there for a purpose, most flight sims have them and for good reason.
I'm sure it was a very intense and violent fight, sounds that way from what I've read. There's nothing to be ashamed of, FSOs are always a gamble and we all have some good nights and some bad nights. It's part of the challenge, always a roll of the dice and it keeps people interested.
So... I'm sure you guys want to redeem yourselves tonight and get some revenge no? :)
-
Yep if you have a good connection you shouldn't have much of an issue but yes there is a fudge factor in there. When the icon says it is at a distance it might be there or might be little bit farther away or closer depend on your connectivity and such. But yes the real factor is being surprised at the icon showing only at 800 yards (a setting mistake). Not sure off the top of my head when the game goes from rendering an enemy from a dot on the monitor to actually start rendering it as a plane.
I think other people have talked about how you would in real life start to be able to make out the shapes of the other planes are greater distance.
But normally with icon range short you have a bit more heads up and time to react. Also as stated it was mistake and if was a real setting I think pilots would be able to compensate for it with paranoia (is that a friendly dot or a non friendly dot .. we better prepare for it not being friendly). I am sure the situation won't happen again since next time icon range is adjusted it will be on purpose and everybody will be aware of it.
-
In other words, your SA suffer tremendously and especially if you're not aware that the tag range is 800. Afaik it should have been at least 3k right? So the real issue here imo is that the 800 yard tag range effectively denied you of any useful level of SA until it was too late. It was a CM mistake and has been confirmed and apologized as such, so live with it, after all it's just a game.
Yeah I tend to agree.
If everybody KNEW that the tags were range 800, they would know to start maneuvering well before icon range. It's not so much the tags themselves as much as the knowledge of what range they are set at.
Think about it, if you know the tags are 6k out as they are in the MA, you wouldn't even try to maneuver until you had icon. Similarly, since all pilots assumed 3k tags, the NOE defenders didn't try to maneuver until they saw tags, which at 3k would have been a safe distance.
While this did affect us as attackers, it was a much bigger detriment to the defenders. For the attackers, we had significantly less time to line up a gun solution, but we weren't the ones in danger.